Ring of Transparency [Archive] - Wizards Community

Ring of Transparency [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
crizhII
06-14-07, 04:10 PM Ok, background.

I'm currently running a small intersticial scenario as our main DM is too busy to prepare anything decent for a few months/weeks.

The campaign is non-transparent, which has ups and downs, I don't mind the extra work and I like the extra flavour.

Anyway, the BBEG has dipped into Ardent to get access to the Magic Mantle. This is fantastic for his ability to really screw with the party and will present them with a real headache in overcoming any of his buffs etc.

However, in designing all the lower level Mindseeded goons, Thralls and Dominated hangers-on, I have found myself tempted to wheel the same schtick out over and over again.

I really like the benefit and it makes sense for the entire organisation to benefit but the mechanism is in danger of becoming severely hackneyed.

Then I hit upon the idea of Rings of Transparency.

Ring of Transparency

The wearer may treat magic and psionics as transparent for as long as he wears this crystaline ring.

ML 1, Creater must have Craft Universal Item and the granted power of the Magic Mantle.

The big question is price. It's not a huge ability, similar in power to +1 effective CL or +2 to a couple of skills, but in a campaign that is non-transparent it's a huge edge when fighting someone of the opposing tradition.

I have my own opinions, and it might not matter in the short run, but I wondered what thoughts you guys might have on the subject.
Racinante
06-14-07, 05:41 PM Ok, background.

I'm currently running a small intersticial scenario as our main DM is too busy to prepare anything decent for a few months/weeks.

The campaign is non-transparent, which has ups and downs, I don't mind the extra work and I like the extra flavour.

Anyway, the BBEG has dipped into Ardent to get access to the Magic Mantle. This is fantastic for his ability to really screw with the party and will present them with a real headache in overcoming any of his buffs etc.

However, in designing all the lower level Mindseeded goons, Thralls and Dominated hangers-on, I have found myself tempted to wheel the same schtick out over and over again.

I really like the benefit and it makes sense for the entire organisation to benefit but the mechanism is in danger of becoming severely hackneyed.

Then I hit upon the idea of Rings of Transparency.

The big question is price. It's not a huge ability, similar in power to +1 effective CL or +2 to a couple of skills, but in a campaign that is non-transparent it's a huge edge when fighting someone of the opposing tradition.

I have my own opinions, and it might not matter in the short run, but I wondered what thoughts you guys might have on the subject.

The benefit would be huge. I would start the pricing at 100,000 gp.
Fafnir
06-14-07, 05:44 PM You could just have everyone take Tap & Don Mantle, as a requirement to join the BBEG's organization.
unundindur
06-14-07, 05:50 PM What do you mena by magic and psionics beeing transparent?
Fafnir
06-14-07, 05:59 PM What do you mena by magic and psionics beeing transparent?

Transparent: Magic and Psi interact normally. For example, Dispel Magic dispels psionic effects and Power Resistance applies to spells.

Non-Transparent: Psionics are totally separated from Magic. Psi works in Antimagic Fields, magic works in Null-psi Fields and Psionic Disintegrate creams Golems.

Transparency is the standard, usually. :teach:
InkBlot
06-14-07, 06:01 PM Open your Expanded Psionics Handbook to page 55 (or click here (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionic.html) and scroll down a bit). Look under Combining Psionic And Magical Effects. That's what he means.
Lycanthromancer
06-14-07, 06:37 PM Adding the option for non-transparency is quite possibly the largest mistake that Mr. Cordell ever made regarding psionics.

...At least until Complete Psionic, which immediately made the top of the list.

Sorry, but I think that decision was a mistake. It's your campaign, however, so do as you wish.

In any case, I think that Racinante is right. 100,000 gp minimum. Possibly more.

[edit] Though it really depends on how widespread both magic and psionics are, and who has the ring. If you're a lone psion in a totally magical world (or vice versa), then I'd say it should be on par with a minor artifact. If you're a psion with the ring in a world full of psions, but with no magic users, it's quite possibly worthless.
Tyroki
06-14-07, 06:42 PM My DM's pulling none-transparency as well. We, the players, are kinda wondering how it will pan out in the end.
crizhII
06-14-07, 06:52 PM You could just have everyone take Tap & Don Mantle, as a requirement to join the BBEG's organization.

That's kinda circular, you have to be an Ardent/Divine Mind to take either of those feats....:weep:

(or a mantled wilder I suppose)
crizhII
06-14-07, 06:57 PM My DM's pulling none-transparency as well. We, the players, are kinda wondering how it will pan out in the end.

Well if Psionics is gonna be common then a PC taking a dip into Ardent will have an enormous advantage.

You'll get some nice armour and weapon proficiencies for free as well...
forsaken1111
06-14-07, 07:43 PM Yeah my DM has taken it even farther. For example, magically animated undead are NOT immune to psionic mind-affecting abilities because (in his mind) they have a mind and a psyche to affect. A magic spell may not recognize them as an entity to target, but a psionic power which affects the mind will still work and will affect them as if they were a non-undead version of their base creature.

Vis-a-vis, a psionically animated undead can be affected by magical mind-affecting abilities.

Its... odd... but its his custom campaign world. Many things are odd. Like every plane casts planar shadows which are echos of the things on that plane. (Think alternate dimension, but no people. Only very powerful individuals have an echo.)
AntiDjinn
06-14-07, 07:48 PM If transparency is supposed to be the BBEG's main advantage, then I would resist the temptation to make items to be distributed to all the peons in his organization. Would the boss be so quick to make his special available to others? All items will become swag for the PC's to collect. Any item in the game will fall into the hands of the party sooner or later, unless you make the item only work for NPC's (a cheap trick) or are willing to kill any character who might come into possession of the item. Once every psionic or spellcasting PC in your game is wearing one of these rings then you will basically be running a transparent game, in which case you will wonder why you put the work into making non-transparency function.

So: Non-transparency? Sure, if you are willing to do the work. Ways to function with transparency? If powerful beings have perceived non-transparency as a problem then it is likely they would have created a solution. But it should require lots of character resources (such as taking a level of Ardent). Make it an item that can shuffle from character to character? I wouldn't.
Enchanter_Tom
06-15-07, 01:36 AM My DM's pulling none-transparency as well. We, the players, are kinda wondering how it will pan out in the end.
Painfully.
Rageheart
06-15-07, 01:41 PM maybe break the ring into 3 lesser/normal/greater rings of transparency

Lesser: effects powers & spells Level 1-3 - Cost: $$
Normal: effects powers & spells Level 1-6 - Cost: $$$$
Greater: effects powers & spells Level 1-9 - Cost: $$$$$$
forsaken1111
06-15-07, 01:56 PM If you don't want it to fall into PC hands just make it a permenancied psionic/arcane effect he puts on his higher level minions.
Lycanthromancer
06-15-07, 02:02 PM Make it a graft, rather than a ring, and force someone to go through some arduous, arcane (as in, mysterious) ritual in order for the graft to work.

An actual 3rd eye (rather than just a piece of equipment) would work. If it's an ethereal graft, all the better.
crizhII
06-16-07, 02:37 AM I don't think grafts will fit into the campaign world.

However, nasty long term side effects are probably just the thing...

I was thinking of creating a Mindlink network using items, perhaps I can get 2 for 1 here. You gain great power but open your mind to the subtle Telepathic influence of the BBEG.

'One ring to bring them all...'

I was thinking of making them quite cheap so that the main DM has a mechanic he can use if he changes his mind about transparency.

The first ones can be unique items that tempt wearers to the darkside and then, if the idea catches on, cheap, harmless, generic knock-offs can be made.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
crizhII 06-14-07, 04:10 PM	Ok, background. I'm currently running a small intersticial scenario as our main DM is too busy to prepare anything decent for a few months/weeks. The campaign is non-transparent, which has ups and downs, I don't mind the extra work and I like the extra flavour. Anyway, the BBEG has dipped into Ardent to get access to the Magic Mantle. This is fantastic for his ability to really screw with the party and will present them with a real headache in overcoming any of his buffs etc. However, in designing all the lower level Mindseeded goons, Thralls and Dominated hangers-on, I have found myself tempted to wheel the same schtick out over and over again. I really like the benefit and it makes sense for the entire organisation to benefit but the mechanism is in danger of becoming severely hackneyed. Then I hit upon the idea of Rings of Transparency. Ring of Transparency The wearer may treat magic and psionics as transparent for as long as he wears this crystaline ring. ML 1, Creater must have Craft Universal Item and the granted power of the Magic Mantle. The big question is price. It's not a huge ability, similar in power to +1 effective CL or +2 to a couple of skills, but in a campaign that is non-transparent it's a huge edge when fighting someone of the opposing tradition. I have my own opinions, and it might not matter in the short run, but I wondered what thoughts you guys might have on the subject.
Racinante 06-14-07, 05:41 PM	Ok, background. I'm currently running a small intersticial scenario as our main DM is too busy to prepare anything decent for a few months/weeks. The campaign is non-transparent, which has ups and downs, I don't mind the extra work and I like the extra flavour. Anyway, the BBEG has dipped into Ardent to get access to the Magic Mantle. This is fantastic for his ability to really screw with the party and will present them with a real headache in overcoming any of his buffs etc. However, in designing all the lower level Mindseeded goons, Thralls and Dominated hangers-on, I have found myself tempted to wheel the same schtick out over and over again. I really like the benefit and it makes sense for the entire organisation to benefit but the mechanism is in danger of becoming severely hackneyed. Then I hit upon the idea of Rings of Transparency. The big question is price. It's not a huge ability, similar in power to +1 effective CL or +2 to a couple of skills, but in a campaign that is non-transparent it's a huge edge when fighting someone of the opposing tradition. I have my own opinions, and it might not matter in the short run, but I wondered what thoughts you guys might have on the subject. The benefit would be huge. I would start the pricing at 100,000 gp.
Fafnir 06-14-07, 05:44 PM	You could just have everyone take Tap & Don Mantle, as a requirement to join the BBEG's organization.
unundindur 06-14-07, 05:50 PM	What do you mena by magic and psionics beeing transparent?
Fafnir 06-14-07, 05:59 PM	What do you mena by magic and psionics beeing transparent? Transparent: Magic and Psi interact normally. For example, Dispel Magic dispels psionic effects and Power Resistance applies to spells. Non-Transparent: Psionics are totally separated from Magic. Psi works in Antimagic Fields, magic works in Null-psi Fields and Psionic Disintegrate creams Golems. Transparency is the standard, usually. :teach:
InkBlot 06-14-07, 06:01 PM	Open your Expanded Psionics Handbook to page 55 (or click here (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/35/sovelior_sage/psionic.html) and scroll down a bit). Look under Combining Psionic And Magical Effects. That's what he means.
Lycanthromancer 06-14-07, 06:37 PM	Adding the option for non-transparency is quite possibly the largest mistake that Mr. Cordell ever made regarding psionics. ...At least until Complete Psionic, which immediately made the top of the list. Sorry, but I think that decision was a mistake. It's your campaign, however, so do as you wish. In any case, I think that Racinante is right. 100,000 gp minimum. Possibly more. [edit] Though it really depends on how widespread both magic and psionics are, and who has the ring. If you're a lone psion in a totally magical world (or vice versa), then I'd say it should be on par with a minor artifact. If you're a psion with the ring in a world full of psions, but with no magic users, it's quite possibly worthless.
Tyroki 06-14-07, 06:42 PM	My DM's pulling none-transparency as well. We, the players, are kinda wondering how it will pan out in the end.
crizhII 06-14-07, 06:52 PM	You could just have everyone take Tap & Don Mantle, as a requirement to join the BBEG's organization. That's kinda circular, you have to be an Ardent/Divine Mind to take either of those feats....:weep: (or a mantled wilder I suppose)
crizhII 06-14-07, 06:57 PM	My DM's pulling none-transparency as well. We, the players, are kinda wondering how it will pan out in the end. Well if Psionics is gonna be common then a PC taking a dip into Ardent will have an enormous advantage. You'll get some nice armour and weapon proficiencies for free as well...
forsaken1111 06-14-07, 07:43 PM	Yeah my DM has taken it even farther. For example, magically animated undead are NOT immune to psionic mind-affecting abilities because (in his mind) they have a mind and a psyche to affect. A magic spell may not recognize them as an entity to target, but a psionic power which affects the mind will still work and will affect them as if they were a non-undead version of their base creature. Vis-a-vis, a psionically animated undead can be affected by magical mind-affecting abilities. Its... odd... but its his custom campaign world. Many things are odd. Like every plane casts planar shadows which are echos of the things on that plane. (Think alternate dimension, but no people. Only very powerful individuals have an echo.)
AntiDjinn 06-14-07, 07:48 PM	If transparency is supposed to be the BBEG's main advantage, then I would resist the temptation to make items to be distributed to all the peons in his organization. Would the boss be so quick to make his special available to others? All items will become swag for the PC's to collect. Any item in the game will fall into the hands of the party sooner or later, unless you make the item only work for NPC's (a cheap trick) or are willing to kill any character who might come into possession of the item. Once every psionic or spellcasting PC in your game is wearing one of these rings then you will basically be running a transparent game, in which case you will wonder why you put the work into making non-transparency function. So: Non-transparency? Sure, if you are willing to do the work. Ways to function with transparency? If powerful beings have perceived non-transparency as a problem then it is likely they would have created a solution. But it should require lots of character resources (such as taking a level of Ardent). Make it an item that can shuffle from character to character? I wouldn't.
Enchanter_Tom 06-15-07, 01:36 AM	My DM's pulling none-transparency as well. We, the players, are kinda wondering how it will pan out in the end. Painfully.
Rageheart 06-15-07, 01:41 PM	maybe break the ring into 3 lesser/normal/greater rings of transparency Lesser: effects powers & spells Level 1-3 - Cost: $$ Normal: effects powers & spells Level 1-6 - Cost: $$$$ Greater: effects powers & spells Level 1-9 - Cost: $$$$$$
forsaken1111 06-15-07, 01:56 PM	If you don't want it to fall into PC hands just make it a permenancied psionic/arcane effect he puts on his higher level minions.
Lycanthromancer 06-15-07, 02:02 PM	Make it a graft, rather than a ring, and force someone to go through some arduous, arcane (as in, mysterious) ritual in order for the graft to work. An actual 3rd eye (rather than just a piece of equipment) would work. If it's an ethereal graft, all the better.
crizhII 06-16-07, 02:37 AM	I don't think grafts will fit into the campaign world. However, nasty long term side effects are probably just the thing... I was thinking of creating a Mindlink network using items, perhaps I can get 2 for 1 here. You gain great power but open your mind to the subtle Telepathic influence of the BBEG. 'One ring to bring them all...' I was thinking of making them quite cheap so that the main DM has a mechanic he can use if he changes his mind about transparency. The first ones can be unique items that tempt wearers to the darkside and then, if the idea catches on, cheap, harmless, generic knock-offs can be made.