Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Fatalis_902 01-10-08, 06:46 AM	I have one question about the Elocator ability Scorn Earth. Does it truly allow you to move/stand on walls, cielings and the like, as they are potenially flat surfaces? Or is that not true? Thanks.
Spiritwalker 01-10-08, 07:02 AM	I would leave it to a DM's ruling, but my reading of it was that no, you wouldn't be able to walk above any flat surface but the floor, without some way to invert gravity.
Keijii 01-10-08, 07:12 AM	Actually, yes it does. It makes it a lot more powerful than it seems when you first look at it. I remember there was a rather big thread about it some time ago. I'll quickly look around for it again. Its just another reason why I like the Elocator prestige class :P EDIT: Seems I found it. Enjoy. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13799462&postcount=6)
Tyler Do'Urden 01-10-08, 08:56 AM	I knew right away that that was one of the most powerful 1st level abilities ever. It ought to say, "Scorn Earth: At 1st level, you become M. Bison. Enjoy."
rilem 01-10-08, 10:09 AM	I have one question about the Elocator ability Scorn Earth. Does it truly allow you to move/stand on walls, cielings and the like, as they are potenially flat surfaces? Or is that not true? Thanks. No it doesn't let you stand on walls. It doesn't have to. It lets you levitate as high as you like. This was in the main FAQ, I think.
hogarth 01-10-08, 10:54 AM	No it doesn't let you stand on walls. It doesn't have to. It lets you levitate as high as you like. This was in the main FAQ, I think. Well, there would be a quantitative difference between moving along a wall at full speed and hovering next to a wall at 5' speed. But I agree with the others who have said "no wall walking on vertical surfaces, only hovering over horizontal(ish) surfaces".
InkBlot 01-10-08, 11:05 AM	I concur. You can only move full speed when there's a horizontal surface below your feat; not on walls, and not on ceilings. And matter agitation hurts people with fire.
luigrein 01-10-08, 01:22 PM	Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you combine scorn earth with up the walls can't you effectively scorn walls? Run up the wall on your move, when you would fall for not being on a flat surface at the end of your move the levitation kicks in? Cielings are of course still out, but is this valid? Oh and hi, long itme lurker here, took me forever to actually set up a board account :P
Fatalis_902 01-10-08, 02:46 PM	7 replies in as many(ish) hours... Wow! I didn't know this was such a common/popular question/hot topic. Thanks for all the replies. I had actually looked up the definition for flat last night before going to bed, which seemed to rule out walls, as one of the definitions said, "being or characterized by a horizontal line," which, while ruling out walls, left (most) ceilings available. I had figured the Cordell was operating on this definition, so as not to unintentionally obviated the Up the Walls feat, which a lot of people would probably take if they're going elocator, on premise of the character specializing in movement, hence Elocator and Up the Walls. One way or another, I wanted to make sure that I was reading the ability right. Thanks again. And yes, I could float as high as a kite, even along walls, but 40' (Human base 30 + Speed of Thought 10) is much better than 10'.
flamepheonix182 01-10-08, 04:56 PM	Actually, yes it does. It makes it a lot more powerful than it seems when you first look at it. I remember there was a rather big thread about it some time ago. I'll quickly look around for it again. Its just another reason why I like the Elocator prestige class :P EDIT: Seems I found it. Enjoy. (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13799462&postcount=6) I found the actual Sage answer and it makes no mention of being able to walk on walls. He only mentioned the fall damage. http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20070612a Q: Dear Sage, Does the scorn earth class feature of the elocator prestige class (Expanded Psionics Handbook 142) allow her to avoid taking damage from a fall? --Matthias A: Actually, the character wouldn’t fall at all. An elocator is effectively in a constant state of levitation (as the psionic levitate power). An elocator could walk out over an open pit without falling (though her speed would be reduced to 10 feet per round). Even a trap door opening beneath her feet wouldn’t drop her -- she’d just hang in space, levitating as if she’d intentionally stepped out over the pit. The class feature suggests strongly that its effect is created voluntarily: “she can float a foot above the ground” (EPH 143, italics added). Thus, if for some reason she didn’t have this effect active, she’d be as vulnerable to falling as anyone else. As a supernatural ability, it requires a standard action to activate scorn earth, so she probably wouldn’t have time to save herself from a (short) fall. This answer would lead me to believe that the elocator cannot walk on walls.
Jaid 01-10-08, 09:02 PM	the sage doesn't really handle psionic questions. or at least, he doesn't handle them by answering correctly, most of the time. possibly because he isn't really familiar with them at all, and doesn't appear to care enough to become familiar with them.
Kanachi 01-10-08, 09:37 PM	I think people are referring to the customer service answer to this question, not any post by the sage (who has made no such post). The customer service answer was: An elocator can scorn ANY surface, horizontal or vertical, not just flat ground. The elocator can "walk" and even "run" (move at 4x speed) on ceilings at no penalty. No climb checks or jump checks are necessary or even allowed anymore. In regards to balancing, the size or width of a surface must be sufficient enough to move upon without having to make a balance check otherwise it is not considered a surface you can "scorn" and you are effectively reduced to the 10 ft. speed. It is up to your DM to adjudicate how an Elocator functions vs. tripping as there are no provisions in the rules as written for tripping a levitating opponent. An elocator cannot fall. The Elocator can not even choose to fall. They cannot "turn off" their scorn earth ability. No free-falling or base jumping to get down quickly. The moment they are more than 1 foot away from a surface they start to levitate at the slower pace. But the elocator can just move down onto the walls of a pit, or the side of a mountain or cliff just fine. They do not go faster when traveling down, so they can't "ski" or "snowboard" at enhanced speeds. They move at their normal speed or move at 4x their speed (like a run) normally. If a surface is so broken or uneven that the Elocator cannot stay within 1 foot of the surface without going up and down dramatically, the DM will have to adjudicate a house rule as to how quickly and far the Elocator can move through such broken terrain. This includes bodies of water that have large waves or are extremely choppy. Keep in mind that an Elocator can still be doused by waves and the like while he's floating there. He does not automatically surf the swells beneath him. If he walks up a rising wave or swell and then it drops from beneath him, he can be left levitating higher than one foot above the current water level, at which time he is slowed to the levitation speed. At heights greater than 1 foot off the surface, the Elocator's speed is 10 rather than their normal speed, so he can use a move action to move 10 feet, hustle to move 20 feet or run at x4 speed (40 feet) as a full round action. The Elocator can become fatigued for "running" as if they were running normally. Needless to say no everyone agrees with this, however as things stand this is the most "official" explanation of scorn earth that is currently available. I'm playing such a character using these rules, while powerful and useful, its not been game breaking.
InkBlot 01-10-08, 09:49 PM	No, it's certainly not game breaking. By the level you can get Elocator, Sorcerers can fly. I just don't believe that's what the ability does. There are lots of things like that. For example, it wouldn't be game breaking if Iron Heart Surge could free you from a hold person spell, but it can't because you need to be able to move to use it. P.S.; Customer Service is extremely unreliable. They've contradicted themselves before. Even when asked the same question multiple times on the same day, they've contradicted themselves.
Kanachi 01-11-08, 12:28 PM	Oh i agree entirely, customer service is VERY unreliable! but none the less those who are sticklers for only using what is consider to be the most official errata should be aware that (at the time of writing this) the above is the most recent and official errata we have. as with most things that are powerful but not game breaking i think its up to the player to not abuse that power. The game is suposed to be fun for all so build yourself some roll playing reasons for not always abusing those powers you have at your disposal, players who keep their own powerlevels in check are a dm's best friend in my opinion. Though once again i will say that i dont consider the above rulling to be game breaking, merely powerful.
CrimsonDeath 01-11-08, 02:41 PM	Are there games where people complain that other players' characters are too powerful? Because I'm not sure I've been in one.
Kanachi 01-11-08, 05:48 PM	Are there games where people complain that other players' characters are too powerful? Because I'm not sure I've been in one. Neither have I, but I guess I’m just used to being a DM and as a DM you learn how important it is to give everyone their "time to shine" and make sure that no one feels useless. I kind of play like this with my fellow players as well, I mean as a caster class (which i am the strongest, and almost only, example of in my group) you are invariably the guy who can always do something that pretty kick arse in almost any situation. Think of it like a computer game... you know when spend ages in a high intensity fire fight with someone and your just about to zero in for that final shot which will pop there last point of health? remember how annoying it is when some cheeky sniper a world away clips his toe nail and finishes him before you do? Being a caster class can be ALLOT like that, you might not notice all the time but while your busy bending the rules of reality to your very will some poor guy is sitting there feeling very very inadequate and peripheral. No one wants to feel like they offer the team nothing. So yer, sometimes if I see an easy way to finish a fight I don’t always take it. I know this probably makes me stupid, but I think everyone has a better time because of it. I'll relate my reasoning to computer games again actually (though you probably already get my point, apologies if you do)... You know when your playing an RTS game against a computer opponent (supreme commander is a good example) and you have finally reached that point where you have built that almighty hoard of super-awesome machines of doom? Well, lets be honest, by this point of the game you probably have the computer pinned back in a small pocket on the map unable to challenge your position but also offering enough resistance to make that final push into enemy territory an awesome light show of explosions. Why do this? Well quite simply playing with ones food is something we learn as children and in my opinion should never really forget the merits of. As I always say to my friends (though I fear they quite rightly worry for my sanity) "always talk dirty to your food." lol, ok... more info than you probably wanted. lol :D
InkBlot 01-11-08, 08:30 PM	Are there games where people complain that other players' characters are too powerful? I have been in games where people complained that other player's characters were too powerful. It's not common IME, especially if everybody still has their niche, but it happens.
CryoSilver 01-11-08, 08:37 PM	It happens more if the character who is too powerful fills the same niche as another character. I get snide comments sometimes for the huge amunts of damage my warblade can deal relative to the paladin (5d6+23 vs 1d8+3).
Kanachi 01-11-08, 09:16 PM	Agreed, that’s where my point comes in, I think it’s important for you as a player to maybe acknowledge this yourself and if necessary hold yourself back a bit. This does not have to be done obviously either, if a fight is under control why not try something a little swish and little different from your norm? So what if you fall on your arse a bit, that in itself may give any players who feel their positions marginalised a little solace (especially if they get to help you out a bit in the process). Also sometimes it’s nice to present yourself with roleplaying explanations for not taking the "uber ownage" option every time... my character specialises in manipulating time for example, but If you start stopping time every encounter and bending space in strange ways it can start to wear thin on your friends (you might be taking 4 turns in effect instead of 1!). So I started to explore the possibility that my character, who is already morally quite grey, was starting to worry about exactly what tampering with such forces was doing to his sense of judgement. I've also tried to developed the idea (after talking with my DM) that meddling with time is intoxicating and has subtle drug like qualities, this has no mechanical impact but it has helped forge him into an awesome character to play who fears himself almost as much as what he may yet become.
Nibbler 01-11-08, 10:30 PM	The way we play it, the elocator gets to scorn any flat surface. He basically gets relative gravity. I would agree that it's a DM call though.
The_Mess 01-12-08, 12:17 AM	It happens more if the character who is too powerful fills the same niche as another character. I get snide comments sometimes for the huge amunts of damage my warblade can deal relative to the paladin (5d6+23 vs 1d8+3). Some of that is inevitable. Some classes are just better than others, and Paladin is not only a weak class in general (it's only got a rating of 4.22 on the completely scientific rate the powers thread (http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14758242&postcount=135)), but a lot of it's power is in buffing and the horse (i.e., not dealing damage). The Warblade (which has the highest rating of any melee class, 6.88) is all about melee and damage. The DM needs to be careful to balance things out. Give the Paladin some undead or seriously evil stuff to make the most of his smite and defensive spells, or have him specialize in Diplomacy.
InkBlot 01-12-08, 01:22 AM	Warblades have high peak damage, but over the course of a battle aren't doing more than any other dedicated warrior. It sounds like they're pretty low-level too. Things should be more even once the Paladin starts self-buffing with his spells, or starts doing Spirited Ride-By Pounces with a lance. Also, two-handed Power Attack.
CrimsonDeath 01-12-08, 01:25 AM	The Warblade (which has the highest rating of any melee class, 6.88) is all about melee and damage. I'm surprised the Warblade beat out the Crusader (if only by a little), based on how highly the Crusader's recovery mechanic is regarded on the CharOp board.
CryoSilver 01-12-08, 02:41 AM	Warblade has access to more disciplines, and no matter how good your recovery mechanic is, if you're recovering maneuvers that simply aren't as potent as the warblade's, well, you're missing out on something big. Warblades can output a ton of damage with Tiger Claw powers (especially Pouncing Charge).
PhaedrusXY 01-14-08, 03:21 PM	And yes, I could float as high as a kite, even along walls, but 40' (Human base 30 + Speed of Thought 10) is much better than 10'.That fly speed would be 20. Speed of Thought adds to it, too.
K.O.E.G 01-14-08, 05:23 PM	I always treated it as a bizarre, unconcious relationship between an elocator's body and whatever surface was near them. Wear straps, though, everything you're holding onto still falls the right way.
Trevan0 01-14-08, 05:52 PM	completely scientific Sarcasm I hope?
sijigs 01-14-08, 06:41 PM	I always treated it as a bizarre, unconcious relationship between an elocator's body and whatever surface was near them. Wear straps, though, everything you're holding onto still falls the right way. LOL - good point. But only if your DM feels mean. Not very heroic seeing an adventurer's clothes falling out of their packs.. but could make for a funny scene. Do stuff fall out of Bags of Holding, I wonder.
InkBlot 01-14-08, 06:48 PM	That would explain all those straps and belts and buckles on the iconic elocator ... http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/xph_gallery/80453.jpg (the 3x more awesome picture of this guy wasn't in the XPH art gallery)
AwsomeSauce 01-14-08, 07:15 PM	Inkblot, the picture your talking about, would that be the one used to describe temporal acceleration? Very awesome indeed.
Kanachi 01-14-08, 08:06 PM	That would explain all those straps and belts and buckles on the iconic elocator ... http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/xph_gallery/80453.jpg (the 3x more awesome picture of this guy wasn't in the XPH art gallery) To be honest the fact that this character is not scorning earth always made me feel that this artwork (cool as it is) was not originally intended to represent an elocator and was probably just intended for a nomad (same goes for the temporal acceleration image). So i genrally reguard this guy as the iconic nomad not elocator.
sijigs 01-14-08, 08:13 PM	To be honest the fact that this character is not scorning earth always made me feel that this artwork (cool as it is) was not originally intended to represent an elocator and was probably just intended for a nomad (same goes for the temporal acceleration image). So i genrally reguard this guy as the iconic nomad not elocator. That temporal pic ain't even accurate. Seeing as you can't actually harm anyone with a melee weapon during the acceleration. But meh.. looks cool. ;)
Ekko 01-14-08, 08:52 PM	Ignore this, I didn't check whether there was a page 2.
CrimsonDeath 01-14-08, 08:56 PM	That temporal pic ain't even accurate. Seeing as you can't actually harm anyone with a melee weapon during the acceleration. But meh.. looks cool. ;) He's not harming the guy until after his move is over. I assumed he was using the TA to buff himself and move, then using his normal full round action for a full attack.
The_Mess 01-14-08, 09:52 PM	Sarcasm I hope? Sarcastic? Me? Never! Not sarcastic. Facetious, maybe. But not sarcastic.
InkBlot 01-15-08, 01:51 AM	He's not harming the guy until after his move is over. I assumed he was using the TA to buff himself and move, then using his normal full round action for a full attack. Temporal acceleration only requires a swift action to manifest. The dromite could have made an attack on the hamatula, and then used temporal acceleration immediately afterwards. It makes some sense to attack first, since you're shaken after slowing down again. But to me it doesn't even look like the dromite is necessarily the one attacking the barbed devil. The trail of blood appears to be pointing to a blurred line which could be the dromite's sword. However, the devil is actually far in the background -- the devil and the dromite appear roughly the same size, but the dromite is in fact a small character, so it must be perspective. On the other hand, they are the only two characters in the picture. Nomad or Elocater, that little bug person is so astoundingly cool; it's* heavy boots, goggles, wrist-compass, and gasmask; the way it wears a climbing kit like everyday clothes; the air of experience and preparedness and sheer savvy. The dromite nomad and/or elocator art is one of the major reasons why I became so interested in psionics. *Dromites, other than the queen dromites and her consort, are genderless.
sijigs 01-15-08, 05:39 PM	Sorry, I didn't mean to sound like I'm a hater for the pic because it's cool. IMHO it just looked misleading on first/second look.. Yeah, gotta love them Nomads/Elocators! The up-and-coming movie Jumper looks promising for Nomad lovers. Nightcrawler FTW, tho. :D