should I [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

should I [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
PelorVsVecna
07-05-07, 08:22 PM Should i but the complete phyonics or the phyonics handbook

Is phyonics good is it powerful??

Plz tell Me
Enchanter_Tom
07-05-07, 08:26 PM Oh, dear Lord...

Complete Psionic is trash. The Expanded Psionics Handbook, on the other hand, is a good addition to D&D if you're into psionics. Psionics is good, and powerful (in some cases), and more balanced than arcane or divine magic.
steventirey1985
07-05-07, 08:28 PM First, its "psionics", not "phyonics"

Second, Get the Expanded Psionics Handbook. Avoid the 3.0 Psionics Handbook at all cost.

The Expanded Psionics Handbook is, in my opinion, pretty well balanced (or at least not too overpowered.)

As for getting Complete Psionics, I can't help you there, as I've never looked at it.
Amaril
07-05-07, 11:33 PM Complete Psionic is a supplement to Expanded Psionics Handbook, which is a 3.5 revision to the original 3.0 Psionics Handbook. In all honesty, Complete Psionic had its flaws, but it wasn't worthless.

I recommend starting with Expanded Psionics Handbook and learning those rules first. Then if you find you'd like some more official D&D Psionic material, take a look at the Mind's Eye archive on the WotC site (anything as of April 2004 is 3.5) and Complete Psionic.
Psikerlord
07-05-07, 11:43 PM You can't use complete psionics without EPH, so best get EPH first. I think complete psionics is ok overall, if nothing else it tidies up a few errors from EPH. In terms of power, I would say psions are more combat powerful than wizards/sorcerers up to about level 10. In the higher levels, wizards come out on top.
Tiarn
07-06-07, 12:41 AM ...I think complete psionics is ok overall, if nothing else it tidies up a few errors from EPH. ...

I'm curious to know what you think these errors that needed fixing are.

To the OP: If I were you I'd avoid Complete Psion. Take a look here (http://www.d20srd.org). Most of the psionic material (and all the rules you need to play) are found there for free. Try it out for a while, have fun. If you have a question about something check the FAQ at the top of this forum, if you can't find the answer there (which would be startling, it's a rather inclusive FAQ) post the question here and most of us would be happy to help.

If you have a grand love for psionics after that, purchase the Expanded Psionics Handbook that was mentioned in an earlier post.

However, most here agree that Complete Psion was a waste.
AntiDjinn
07-06-07, 12:45 AM Should i but the complete phyonics or the phyonics handbook

If by "but" you meant "butt" as in "knock them over a ledge" then the answer is Yes. Of WotC's official material, the Expanded Psionics Handbook is all you need to include psionics in your 3.5 game.
CrimsonDeath
07-06-07, 04:09 AM Or you could just use the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org).
Psikerlord
07-06-07, 08:25 AM Tiarn, the 'errors' I was thinking of were (i) energy missile augment and (ii) astral construct nerf. I know a lot of people disagree with the AC nerf, which is fair enough when you compare with what summon natures ally can do.

It's fairto say complete psionics doesn't have a much great stuff in it, but there's a few useful powers (eg: damp power, celestial conduit, inconstant location, ethereal agent, psychotic break), and lots of feats. Not an essential buy, but EPH and CPsi are the only two "core" psionic books available.
Genetic
07-06-07, 08:35 AM Complete Psionic has some interesting things in it. It definitely could've been better, but it's not worthless.
Tiarn
07-06-07, 11:41 PM Tiarn, the 'errors' I was thinking of were (i) energy missile augment and (ii) astral construct nerf. I know a lot of people disagree with the AC nerf, which is fair enough when you compare with what summon natures ally can do.

It's fairto say complete psionics doesn't have a much great stuff in it, but there's a few useful powers (eg: damp power, celestial conduit, inconstant location, ethereal agent, psychotic break), and lots of feats. Not an essential buy, but EPH and CPsi are the only two "core" psionic books available.

I'll give you the energy missile augment, I'd forgotten it was technically incorrect since my group and I had been playing with it in the correct manner so long (it's pretty clear that it was a mistake, so we just fixed it).

Tempest_Stormwind has explained numerous times why the Astral Construct nerf was merely a knee-jerk reaction that makes little sense. There's a really good post here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12789448&postcount=5).

I'll agree some of those powers are useful, then again, some are available elsewhere as well. :) (Prior to Complete Psion even)

Take that into account with all the exceedingly poor parts of CPsi (Anarchic initiates, Mindflayer heritage feats?, poor editing, the fact that you have to pay for "errata", etc) and overall the book is just not worth it.

Others may disagree, then again, the OP asked if it was worth it to buy the books. I'd say for CPsi, the answer is "no".
Tempest Stormwind
07-07-07, 12:39 AM Should i but the complete phyonics or the phyonics handbook

Is phyonics good is it powerful??

Plz tell Me

I refuse to help you on general principle because the way you write fills me with rage akin to the burning fires of a thousand suns, each of which is made out of other, lesser suns. That burn. With flames.

The flames are also on fire.

Besides, the answers to these questions, assuming I'm not misusing my Gibberish-English translator, are in the FAQ stickied at the top of the forum. The kids will all laugh at you if you ask a question that is answered in a sticky.
Khan the Destroyer
07-07-07, 07:57 PM The 'h' key isn't even near the 's' key.
Tempest Stormwind
07-07-07, 07:58 PM The 'h' key isn't even near the 's' key.

On the cosmic scale of things, however...
Einvaldurinn_mikli
07-07-07, 08:06 PM Please, please tell me that you are a dyslexic thirteen year old non-native speaker. I don't know what I will do if this isn't the case, but it won't be pretty.
turalisj
07-07-07, 08:07 PM There are some redeeming merits to CP. Like the Ardent, lurk, soulknife PrC's, and some of the feats.

The other stuff, like the divine mind, power nerfs, and astral construct nerf, turn people away.
Tempest Stormwind
07-07-07, 08:12 PM Please, please tell me that you are a dyslexic thirteen year old non-native speaker. I don't know what I will do if this isn't the case, but it won't be pretty.

Even so, his English is better than my Icelandic.

...if only because I don't speak a word of it...
CrimsonDeath
07-07-07, 11:33 PM Even so, his English is better than my Icelandic.

...if only because I don't speak a word of it...

I presume that you have the good sense to avoid posting on Icelandic message boards, though.

But for some reason, I doubt a non-native speaker would use the abbreviation "plz". I'm not aware of many languages with very many words that lack vowels entirely.

Anyway, the only way I can, in good conscience, recommend Complete Psionics is if you're planning to pick and choose which things you're using. The book has some support for things that have been otherwise neglected-- the XPH races and the Soulknife, in particular-- but it also has some rules that don't make any sense (Illithid Blast) or needlessly reduce a character's power (Astral Construct), plus some things that just weren't thought out very well (Ectopic Form).
Greatbear
07-07-07, 11:39 PM There are some redeeming merits to CP. Like the Ardent, lurk, soulknife PrC's, and some of the feats.

The other stuff, like the divine mind, power nerfs, and astral construct nerf, turn people away.

I agree that not everything in CP is horrible, although the consensus on the forum is that the bad far outweighs the good.

The lurk is a decent class and the fact that soulknives got some love is definitely a plus. Also, many of the new powers and feats are good as well. I know many of them don't quite fit with the "flavor" of psionics, but not all of them are bad.

On the other hand, the divine mind is a wreck. I wish they hadn't decided to split the "psionic cleric" idea into two classes, one for religion and one for "philosophy". Why is that. Expecially given that the PHB clearly states that clerics can either follow a deity or a philosophy.

The worst part, though, are the mantles, which look like they were just thrown together as an afterthought and given awful names just so that they would have different names than many of the cleric domains. Conflict? Just call it the war mantle! Plus, Chris just showed us in the most recent mind's eye article that coming up with a separate mantle for each of the four elements wasn't that hard.

Once again, give mad props to the people at Dreamscarred Press who came up with an almost identical concept, called them nodes instead of mantles and they worked out infinitely better.
Greatbear
07-07-07, 11:41 PM Oh, and I forgot to mention that the information on the psionic races in the back was good, but where was the racial class progression for the dromites?
Azzy
07-08-07, 04:35 AM The 'h' key isn't even near the 's' key.

At least they're vaguely phonetically similar... In the evolution from the Proto-Indo-Iranian to the Old Iranian languages, the "s" changed to "h," while it stayed an "s" in Vedic Sanskrit. This is evidenced in the reconstructed Proto-Indo-Iranian "*sauma" becoming "haoma" in Avestan and "soma" in Vedic Sanskrit.

Yeah, I do know that had nothing to do with anything, but I felt compelled to geek out. :D
Khan the Destroyer
07-08-07, 05:02 PM At least they're vaguely phonetically similar... In the evolution from the Proto-Indo-Iranian to the Old Iranian languages, the "s" changed to "h," while it stayed an "s" in Vedic Sanskrit. This is evidenced in the reconstructed Proto-Indo-Iranian "*sauma" becoming "haoma" in Avestan and "soma" in Vedic Sanskrit.
So... was he typing in proto-indo-iranian or old iranian? Or was that vedic sanskrit? Or maybe I didn't follow you as well as I thought and he was typing in avestan.
On the cosmic scale of things, however...
Fair enough. I know the cosmic scale does make me uncomfortable in elevators. Like... Dude, you're a little too close. Could you take a few steps back please? Or be close to me like mercury is close to the sun?
Azzy
07-08-07, 05:50 PM So... was he typing in proto-indo-iranian or old iranian? Or was that vedic sanskrit? Or maybe I didn't follow you as well as I thought and he was typing in avestan.

Yes, he was typing in Avestan. You should have realised that from the start as plain an obvious--it would have saved you from making unwarranted snippy comments at me. :rolleyes:

Some people have no effing sense of humour. :nonono:
turalisj
07-08-07, 05:52 PM You'll have to excuse him. Idiots on the boards makes old timers like him cranky. :P
Azzy
07-08-07, 06:09 PM They make me cranky, too. *waves cane threateningly*
Einvaldurinn_mikli
07-08-07, 07:26 PM Even so, his English is better than my Icelandic.

...if only because I don't speak a word of it...

Rectifying this should be a snap.

To rectify=Að leiðrétta/bæta úr

There, now your Icelandic is better then his...whatever that was.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
PelorVsVecna 07-05-07, 08:22 PM	Should i but the complete phyonics or the phyonics handbook Is phyonics good is it powerful?? Plz tell Me
Enchanter_Tom 07-05-07, 08:26 PM	Oh, dear Lord... Complete Psionic is trash. The Expanded Psionics Handbook, on the other hand, is a good addition to D&D if you're into psionics. Psionics is good, and powerful (in some cases), and more balanced than arcane or divine magic.
steventirey1985 07-05-07, 08:28 PM	First, its "psionics", not "phyonics" Second, Get the Expanded Psionics Handbook. Avoid the 3.0 Psionics Handbook at all cost. The Expanded Psionics Handbook is, in my opinion, pretty well balanced (or at least not too overpowered.) As for getting Complete Psionics, I can't help you there, as I've never looked at it.
Amaril 07-05-07, 11:33 PM	Complete Psionic is a supplement to Expanded Psionics Handbook, which is a 3.5 revision to the original 3.0 Psionics Handbook. In all honesty, Complete Psionic had its flaws, but it wasn't worthless. I recommend starting with Expanded Psionics Handbook and learning those rules first. Then if you find you'd like some more official D&D Psionic material, take a look at the Mind's Eye archive on the WotC site (anything as of April 2004 is 3.5) and Complete Psionic.
Psikerlord 07-05-07, 11:43 PM	You can't use complete psionics without EPH, so best get EPH first. I think complete psionics is ok overall, if nothing else it tidies up a few errors from EPH. In terms of power, I would say psions are more combat powerful than wizards/sorcerers up to about level 10. In the higher levels, wizards come out on top.
Tiarn 07-06-07, 12:41 AM	...I think complete psionics is ok overall, if nothing else it tidies up a few errors from EPH. ... I'm curious to know what you think these errors that needed fixing are. To the OP: If I were you I'd avoid Complete Psion. Take a look here (http://www.d20srd.org). Most of the psionic material (and all the rules you need to play) are found there for free. Try it out for a while, have fun. If you have a question about something check the FAQ at the top of this forum, if you can't find the answer there (which would be startling, it's a rather inclusive FAQ) post the question here and most of us would be happy to help. If you have a grand love for psionics after that, purchase the Expanded Psionics Handbook that was mentioned in an earlier post. However, most here agree that Complete Psion was a waste.
AntiDjinn 07-06-07, 12:45 AM	Should i but the complete phyonics or the phyonics handbook If by "but" you meant "butt" as in "knock them over a ledge" then the answer is Yes. Of WotC's official material, the Expanded Psionics Handbook is all you need to include psionics in your 3.5 game.
CrimsonDeath 07-06-07, 04:09 AM	Or you could just use the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org).
Psikerlord 07-06-07, 08:25 AM	Tiarn, the 'errors' I was thinking of were (i) energy missile augment and (ii) astral construct nerf. I know a lot of people disagree with the AC nerf, which is fair enough when you compare with what summon natures ally can do. It's fairto say complete psionics doesn't have a much great stuff in it, but there's a few useful powers (eg: damp power, celestial conduit, inconstant location, ethereal agent, psychotic break), and lots of feats. Not an essential buy, but EPH and CPsi are the only two "core" psionic books available.
Genetic 07-06-07, 08:35 AM	Complete Psionic has some interesting things in it. It definitely could've been better, but it's not worthless.
Tiarn 07-06-07, 11:41 PM	Tiarn, the 'errors' I was thinking of were (i) energy missile augment and (ii) astral construct nerf. I know a lot of people disagree with the AC nerf, which is fair enough when you compare with what summon natures ally can do. It's fairto say complete psionics doesn't have a much great stuff in it, but there's a few useful powers (eg: damp power, celestial conduit, inconstant location, ethereal agent, psychotic break), and lots of feats. Not an essential buy, but EPH and CPsi are the only two "core" psionic books available. I'll give you the energy missile augment, I'd forgotten it was technically incorrect since my group and I had been playing with it in the correct manner so long (it's pretty clear that it was a mistake, so we just fixed it). Tempest_Stormwind has explained numerous times why the Astral Construct nerf was merely a knee-jerk reaction that makes little sense. There's a really good post here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showpost.php?p=12789448&postcount=5). I'll agree some of those powers are useful, then again, some are available elsewhere as well. :) (Prior to Complete Psion even) Take that into account with all the exceedingly poor parts of CPsi (Anarchic initiates, Mindflayer heritage feats?, poor editing, the fact that you have to pay for "errata", etc) and overall the book is just not worth it. Others may disagree, then again, the OP asked if it was worth it to buy the books. I'd say for CPsi, the answer is "no".
Tempest Stormwind 07-07-07, 12:39 AM	Should i but the complete phyonics or the phyonics handbook Is phyonics good is it powerful?? Plz tell Me I refuse to help you on general principle because the way you write fills me with rage akin to the burning fires of a thousand suns, each of which is made out of other, lesser suns. That burn. With flames. The flames are also on fire. Besides, the answers to these questions, assuming I'm not misusing my Gibberish-English translator, are in the FAQ stickied at the top of the forum. The kids will all laugh at you if you ask a question that is answered in a sticky.
Khan the Destroyer 07-07-07, 07:57 PM	The 'h' key isn't even near the 's' key.
Tempest Stormwind 07-07-07, 07:58 PM	The 'h' key isn't even near the 's' key. On the cosmic scale of things, however...
Einvaldurinn_mikli 07-07-07, 08:06 PM	Please, please tell me that you are a dyslexic thirteen year old non-native speaker. I don't know what I will do if this isn't the case, but it won't be pretty.
turalisj 07-07-07, 08:07 PM	There are some redeeming merits to CP. Like the Ardent, lurk, soulknife PrC's, and some of the feats. The other stuff, like the divine mind, power nerfs, and astral construct nerf, turn people away.
Tempest Stormwind 07-07-07, 08:12 PM	Please, please tell me that you are a dyslexic thirteen year old non-native speaker. I don't know what I will do if this isn't the case, but it won't be pretty. Even so, his English is better than my Icelandic. ...if only because I don't speak a word of it...
CrimsonDeath 07-07-07, 11:33 PM	Even so, his English is better than my Icelandic. ...if only because I don't speak a word of it... I presume that you have the good sense to avoid posting on Icelandic message boards, though. But for some reason, I doubt a non-native speaker would use the abbreviation "plz". I'm not aware of many languages with very many words that lack vowels entirely. Anyway, the only way I can, in good conscience, recommend Complete Psionics is if you're planning to pick and choose which things you're using. The book has some support for things that have been otherwise neglected-- the XPH races and the Soulknife, in particular-- but it also has some rules that don't make any sense (Illithid Blast) or needlessly reduce a character's power (Astral Construct), plus some things that just weren't thought out very well (Ectopic Form).
Greatbear 07-07-07, 11:39 PM	There are some redeeming merits to CP. Like the Ardent, lurk, soulknife PrC's, and some of the feats. The other stuff, like the divine mind, power nerfs, and astral construct nerf, turn people away. I agree that not everything in CP is horrible, although the consensus on the forum is that the bad far outweighs the good. The lurk is a decent class and the fact that soulknives got some love is definitely a plus. Also, many of the new powers and feats are good as well. I know many of them don't quite fit with the "flavor" of psionics, but not all of them are bad. On the other hand, the divine mind is a wreck. I wish they hadn't decided to split the "psionic cleric" idea into two classes, one for religion and one for "philosophy". Why is that. Expecially given that the PHB clearly states that clerics can either follow a deity or a philosophy. The worst part, though, are the mantles, which look like they were just thrown together as an afterthought and given awful names just so that they would have different names than many of the cleric domains. Conflict? Just call it the war mantle! Plus, Chris just showed us in the most recent mind's eye article that coming up with a separate mantle for each of the four elements wasn't that hard. Once again, give mad props to the people at Dreamscarred Press who came up with an almost identical concept, called them nodes instead of mantles and they worked out infinitely better.
Greatbear 07-07-07, 11:41 PM	Oh, and I forgot to mention that the information on the psionic races in the back was good, but where was the racial class progression for the dromites?
Azzy 07-08-07, 04:35 AM	The 'h' key isn't even near the 's' key. At least they're vaguely phonetically similar... In the evolution from the Proto-Indo-Iranian to the Old Iranian languages, the "s" changed to "h," while it stayed an "s" in Vedic Sanskrit. This is evidenced in the reconstructed Proto-Indo-Iranian "*sauma" becoming "haoma" in Avestan and "soma" in Vedic Sanskrit. Yeah, I do know that had nothing to do with anything, but I felt compelled to geek out. :D
Khan the Destroyer 07-08-07, 05:02 PM	At least they're vaguely phonetically similar... In the evolution from the Proto-Indo-Iranian to the Old Iranian languages, the "s" changed to "h," while it stayed an "s" in Vedic Sanskrit. This is evidenced in the reconstructed Proto-Indo-Iranian "*sauma" becoming "haoma" in Avestan and "soma" in Vedic Sanskrit. So... was he typing in proto-indo-iranian or old iranian? Or was that vedic sanskrit? Or maybe I didn't follow you as well as I thought and he was typing in avestan. On the cosmic scale of things, however... Fair enough. I know the cosmic scale does make me uncomfortable in elevators. Like... Dude, you're a little too close. Could you take a few steps back please? Or be close to me like mercury is close to the sun?
Azzy 07-08-07, 05:50 PM	So... was he typing in proto-indo-iranian or old iranian? Or was that vedic sanskrit? Or maybe I didn't follow you as well as I thought and he was typing in avestan. Yes, he was typing in Avestan. You should have realised that from the start as plain an obvious--it would have saved you from making unwarranted snippy comments at me. :rolleyes: Some people have no effing sense of humour. :nonono:
turalisj 07-08-07, 05:52 PM	You'll have to excuse him. Idiots on the boards makes old timers like him cranky. :P
Azzy 07-08-07, 06:09 PM	They make me cranky, too. waves cane threateningly
Einvaldurinn_mikli 07-08-07, 07:26 PM	Even so, his English is better than my Icelandic. ...if only because I don't speak a word of it... Rectifying this should be a snap. To rectify=Að leiðrétta/bæta úr There, now your Icelandic is better then his...whatever that was.