Skin of Ectoplasmic Armor [Archive] - Wizards Community

Skin of Ectoplasmic Armor [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
dnddreamer
06-12-07, 11:24 AM I'm sure this has been answered before...but I can't find it.

Does the Skin of Ectoplasmic Armor need the Heavy Armor Proficiency to negate the -6 armor check penalty on your attacks?

Or is it just a skin and no armor proficiency at all is needed?
Scion of Coldshard
06-12-07, 12:47 PM It isnt actually armor of light, medium, or heavy flavor.

As such, it doesnt take a proficiency to wear so I would say that no one is ever considered 'non-proficient' while wearing it.

Especially since the only other option I see is that no one is ever proficient in it and so always takes the non-proficient penalties. Bah on that.

Fun item though, I should recomend it to a guy I know that is playing a monk ;)

Edit: I should note that the MIC version and the 3.5 psionics handbook version are different. I use the handbook version. In MIC it specifically says that it counts as light armor and they double the price and the weight.
carnivore
06-12-07, 04:43 PM except that the Skin will cause problems for a Monk..... they cant use it and get thier monk abilities:.......

AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five monk levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level).

These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carries a medium or heavy load.

Armor Check Penalty: Any armor heavier than leather hurts a character’s ability to use some skills. An armor check penalty number is the penalty that applies to Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Sleight of Hand, and Tumble checks by a character wearing a certain kind of armor. Double the normal armor check penalty is applied to Swim checks. A character’s encumbrance (the amount of gear carried, including armor) may also apply an armor check penalty.

Shields: If a character is wearing armor and using a shield, both armor check penalties apply.

Nonproficient with Armor Worn: A character who wears armor and/or uses a shield with which he or she is not proficient takes the armor’s (and/or shield’s) armor check penalty on attack rolls and on all Strength-based and Dexterity-based ability and skill checks. The penalty for nonproficiency with armor stacks with the penalty for nonproficiency with shields.

Sleeping in Armor: A character who sleeps in medium or heavy armor is automatically fatigued the next day. He or she takes a –2 penalty on Strength and Dexterity and can’t charge or run. Sleeping in light armor does not cause fatigue.

Encumbrance by Armor: A character’s armor defines his or her maximum Dexterity bonus to AC, armor check penalty, speed, and running speed. Unless your character is weak or carrying a lot of gear, that’s all you need to know. The extra gear your character carries won’t slow him or her down any more than the armor already does.

If your character is weak or carrying a lot of gear, however, then you’ll need to calculate encumbrance by weight. Doing so is most important when your character is trying to carry some heavy object.

the Skin does have: Armor check Penalty, Max Dex, and ASF....so it does Encumber a character ...thus affects Monks abilities in a negative way
Scion of Coldshard
06-12-07, 05:34 PM except that the Skin will cause problems for a Monk..... they cant use it and get thier monk abilities:.......
the Skin does have: Armor check Penalty, Max Dex, and ASF....so it does Encumber a character ...thus affects Monks abilities in a negative way

Having an armor check penalty, max dex, and asf does not make a character 'encumbered' though, only having your current weight go above the level of light load does that for a character.

Note that the not only is not armor but it also does not reduce the characters speed like heavier armors would.

A warforged monk, who has composite plating by default, does not lose his ability to use monk abilities with his basic plating. The heavier versions do hinder the monk but only because they explicitly say that they count as a certain grade of armor.
CrimsonDeath
06-12-07, 07:31 PM The basic composite plating of a Warforged also doesn't have a max Dex bonus or an armor check penalty, only 5% ASF (which doesn't seem to be associate with encumberance in any case).
forsaken1111
06-12-07, 11:10 PM The word 'unencumbered' in the monk ability refers to carrying lots of weight, which makes one encumbered. Being encumbered has nothing to do with wearing armor, unless the armor's weight makes one hit one of the encumbrance categories.
dnddreamer
06-13-07, 10:21 AM So in short....you don't need a proficiency to wear and use the skin...right?
Scion of Coldshard
06-13-07, 10:47 AM So in short....you don't need a proficiency to wear and use the skin...right?

Well, I dont think you need proficiency to wear any armor... ;)

It looks like you need no proficiencies to use the skin without penalty to attack rolls and such unless you use the MIC version (dont do that).
forsaken1111
06-13-07, 01:00 PM So in short....you don't need a proficiency to wear and use the skin...right?

Correct, it is not armor. It is a spell which imposes a few restrictions which mimic armor, but it does not require any armor proficiency nor would it stop a monk from using her abilities.
BalthazarDArgent
06-13-07, 05:27 PM Edit: I should note that the MIC version and the 3.5 psionics handbook version are different. I use the handbook version. In MIC it specifically says that it counts as light armor and they double the price and the weight.

Nice that you get to choose the one that fits your needs best and not the errata'd (in this case a necessary one) version. Also, it appears in Complete Psionic originally, not the EPH.

This item is one of the most discussed on this board. The argument goes both ways. Some argue the costs of other available items and their benefits vs. the original version of the Ecto Skin and claim it was fair.

It, like so many other items, was not fairly priced, hence the creation of the MIC (a very good book btw). A +8 armor bonus with which you needed no proficiency and you can don with a standard action for only 3k?? Where do I sign?? Mixed with my Elocator, thereby removing the -skill checks, it is incredible...even at 6000 gp.

Whole classes are built around being able to wear armor that powerful (and yes Mr. Stormwind, I know it's not armor, but it sure as hell feels like it). Creating a super cheap 'must have' item that takes away that need is counterproductive to the game balance.
Scion of Coldshard
06-13-07, 05:57 PM Nice that you get to choose the one that fits your needs best and not the errata'd (in this case a necessary one) version.

Actually, I like the one that is a bit more balanced. The one in the MIC is kindof dumb. It costs a lot for what it does, I would say too much in fact.

I wouldnt mind a modified one from the complete psionic though (sorry about saying the wrong book earlier), just not quite as big of a hit as was done when it moved into the MIC.

Also, I dont mind ignoring new books that reprint old things and change them in ways that I do not like. I also ignore many of the changes made to powers in the complete psionic.

Either way though, it is not really 'errata' in my eyes. Errata is free and fixes problems, it does not cost money and make things worse (note that a power hit does not mean it is worse, being actually worse in one or more of a variety of ways is the worse part, power hits where needed are not bad).

It, like so many other items, was not fairly priced

Maybe, maybe not, but the version in the MIC is definately incorrectly priced.

A +8 armor bonus with which you needed no proficiency and you can don with a standard action for only 3k?? Where do I sign?? Mixed with my Elocator, thereby removing the -skill checks, it is incredible...even at 6000 gp.

The elocater is pretty nice but the skill check penalties are still there. You might avoid having to use the 'skill' that is penalized entirely, but the penalty is still there.

I believe that the penalty is -6 (away from my book at the moment) and goes to these skills:
Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Sleight of Hand, and Tumble checks, 2x penalty to swim checks

With the elocater you probably arent too worried about balance, climb, or jump most of the time but the rest will still have penalties to them.

The armor is not masterwork, or even armor, so you cant put armor crystals on it (I believe there is something about being able to put some of them onto items which grant a armor bonus, I am going to have to look that up later, but I also believe that this set of armor is only solid when blocking a strike).

Also, your max dex to AC is limited to +2 (again, IIRC) which is probably going to be a bit of a pinch on any high dex guys (often a monk, elocater might be as well).

Of course, having it count as light armor makes the swordsage incredibly happy. With that in mind, maybe I will allow both versions. No point in favoring one set of guys over the other.

Whole classes are built around being able to wear armor that powerful

If a character is built around wearing heavy armor they are likely much better off actually wearing heavy armor. Guys that are built around the lighter armors probably dont want those penalties to skills or the max dex limitation.

Creating a super cheap 'must have' item

Super cheap is relative to level but at any level where it is affordable it is not a must have for most classes, if it is even a must have for any at all. The option is open in the game I run and it has been open in a few games I have been in, so far no one has taken it, there were always either equivalent or better options for what the character wanted.

And that was when the thing had a price tag of half the current one. At 6,000 gp only someone who has found a really good way to exploit it is going to bother at all.

+2 Mithral chain shirt: AC +6, Max dex +6, Armor check penalty 0, I can already sleep in it so who cares about time to put it on, and I save enough gold to put an armor crystal on it.

At least at the lower price it was a reasonable option sometimes. Not so much with MIC.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dnddreamer 06-12-07, 11:24 AM	I'm sure this has been answered before...but I can't find it. Does the Skin of Ectoplasmic Armor need the Heavy Armor Proficiency to negate the -6 armor check penalty on your attacks? Or is it just a skin and no armor proficiency at all is needed?
Scion of Coldshard 06-12-07, 12:47 PM	It isnt actually armor of light, medium, or heavy flavor. As such, it doesnt take a proficiency to wear so I would say that no one is ever considered 'non-proficient' while wearing it. Especially since the only other option I see is that no one is ever proficient in it and so always takes the non-proficient penalties. Bah on that. Fun item though, I should recomend it to a guy I know that is playing a monk ;) Edit: I should note that the MIC version and the 3.5 psionics handbook version are different. I use the handbook version. In MIC it specifically says that it counts as light armor and they double the price and the weight.
carnivore 06-12-07, 04:43 PM	except that the Skin will cause problems for a Monk..... they cant use it and get thier monk abilities:....... AC Bonus (Ex): When unarmored and unencumbered, the monk adds her Wisdom bonus (if any) to her AC. In addition, a monk gains a +1 bonus to AC at 5th level. This bonus increases by 1 for every five monk levels thereafter (+2 at 10th, +3 at 15th, and +4 at 20th level). These bonuses to AC apply even against touch attacks or when the monk is flat-footed. She loses these bonuses when she is immobilized or helpless, when she wears any armor, when she carries a shield, or when she carries a medium or heavy load. Armor Check Penalty: Any armor heavier than leather hurts a character’s ability to use some skills. An armor check penalty number is the penalty that applies to Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Sleight of Hand, and Tumble checks by a character wearing a certain kind of armor. Double the normal armor check penalty is applied to Swim checks. A character’s encumbrance (the amount of gear carried, including armor) may also apply an armor check penalty. Shields: If a character is wearing armor and using a shield, both armor check penalties apply. Nonproficient with Armor Worn: A character who wears armor and/or uses a shield with which he or she is not proficient takes the armor’s (and/or shield’s) armor check penalty on attack rolls and on all Strength-based and Dexterity-based ability and skill checks. The penalty for nonproficiency with armor stacks with the penalty for nonproficiency with shields. Sleeping in Armor: A character who sleeps in medium or heavy armor is automatically fatigued the next day. He or she takes a –2 penalty on Strength and Dexterity and can’t charge or run. Sleeping in light armor does not cause fatigue. Encumbrance by Armor: A character’s armor defines his or her maximum Dexterity bonus to AC, armor check penalty, speed, and running speed. Unless your character is weak or carrying a lot of gear, that’s all you need to know. The extra gear your character carries won’t slow him or her down any more than the armor already does. If your character is weak or carrying a lot of gear, however, then you’ll need to calculate encumbrance by weight. Doing so is most important when your character is trying to carry some heavy object. the Skin does have: Armor check Penalty, Max Dex, and ASF....so it does Encumber a character ...thus affects Monks abilities in a negative way
Scion of Coldshard 06-12-07, 05:34 PM	except that the Skin will cause problems for a Monk..... they cant use it and get thier monk abilities:....... the Skin does have: Armor check Penalty, Max Dex, and ASF....so it does Encumber a character ...thus affects Monks abilities in a negative way Having an armor check penalty, max dex, and asf does not make a character 'encumbered' though, only having your current weight go above the level of light load does that for a character. Note that the not only is not armor but it also does not reduce the characters speed like heavier armors would. A warforged monk, who has composite plating by default, does not lose his ability to use monk abilities with his basic plating. The heavier versions do hinder the monk but only because they explicitly say that they count as a certain grade of armor.
CrimsonDeath 06-12-07, 07:31 PM	The basic composite plating of a Warforged also doesn't have a max Dex bonus or an armor check penalty, only 5% ASF (which doesn't seem to be associate with encumberance in any case).
forsaken1111 06-12-07, 11:10 PM	The word 'unencumbered' in the monk ability refers to carrying lots of weight, which makes one encumbered. Being encumbered has nothing to do with wearing armor, unless the armor's weight makes one hit one of the encumbrance categories.
dnddreamer 06-13-07, 10:21 AM	So in short....you don't need a proficiency to wear and use the skin...right?
Scion of Coldshard 06-13-07, 10:47 AM	So in short....you don't need a proficiency to wear and use the skin...right? Well, I dont think you need proficiency to wear any armor... ;) It looks like you need no proficiencies to use the skin without penalty to attack rolls and such unless you use the MIC version (dont do that).
forsaken1111 06-13-07, 01:00 PM	So in short....you don't need a proficiency to wear and use the skin...right? Correct, it is not armor. It is a spell which imposes a few restrictions which mimic armor, but it does not require any armor proficiency nor would it stop a monk from using her abilities.
BalthazarDArgent 06-13-07, 05:27 PM	Edit: I should note that the MIC version and the 3.5 psionics handbook version are different. I use the handbook version. In MIC it specifically says that it counts as light armor and they double the price and the weight. Nice that you get to choose the one that fits your needs best and not the errata'd (in this case a necessary one) version. Also, it appears in Complete Psionic originally, not the EPH. This item is one of the most discussed on this board. The argument goes both ways. Some argue the costs of other available items and their benefits vs. the original version of the Ecto Skin and claim it was fair. It, like so many other items, was not fairly priced, hence the creation of the MIC (a very good book btw). A +8 armor bonus with which you needed no proficiency and you can don with a standard action for only 3k?? Where do I sign?? Mixed with my Elocator, thereby removing the -skill checks, it is incredible...even at 6000 gp. Whole classes are built around being able to wear armor that powerful (and yes Mr. Stormwind, I know it's not armor, but it sure as hell feels like it). Creating a super cheap 'must have' item that takes away that need is counterproductive to the game balance.
Scion of Coldshard 06-13-07, 05:57 PM	Nice that you get to choose the one that fits your needs best and not the errata'd (in this case a necessary one) version. Actually, I like the one that is a bit more balanced. The one in the MIC is kindof dumb. It costs a lot for what it does, I would say too much in fact. I wouldnt mind a modified one from the complete psionic though (sorry about saying the wrong book earlier), just not quite as big of a hit as was done when it moved into the MIC. Also, I dont mind ignoring new books that reprint old things and change them in ways that I do not like. I also ignore many of the changes made to powers in the complete psionic. Either way though, it is not really 'errata' in my eyes. Errata is free and fixes problems, it does not cost money and make things worse (note that a power hit does not mean it is worse, being actually worse in one or more of a variety of ways is the worse part, power hits where needed are not bad). It, like so many other items, was not fairly priced Maybe, maybe not, but the version in the MIC is definately incorrectly priced. A +8 armor bonus with which you needed no proficiency and you can don with a standard action for only 3k?? Where do I sign?? Mixed with my Elocator, thereby removing the -skill checks, it is incredible...even at 6000 gp. The elocater is pretty nice but the skill check penalties are still there. You might avoid having to use the 'skill' that is penalized entirely, but the penalty is still there. I believe that the penalty is -6 (away from my book at the moment) and goes to these skills: Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Sleight of Hand, and Tumble checks, 2x penalty to swim checks With the elocater you probably arent too worried about balance, climb, or jump most of the time but the rest will still have penalties to them. The armor is not masterwork, or even armor, so you cant put armor crystals on it (I believe there is something about being able to put some of them onto items which grant a armor bonus, I am going to have to look that up later, but I also believe that this set of armor is only solid when blocking a strike). Also, your max dex to AC is limited to +2 (again, IIRC) which is probably going to be a bit of a pinch on any high dex guys (often a monk, elocater might be as well). Of course, having it count as light armor makes the swordsage incredibly happy. With that in mind, maybe I will allow both versions. No point in favoring one set of guys over the other. Whole classes are built around being able to wear armor that powerful If a character is built around wearing heavy armor they are likely much better off actually wearing heavy armor. Guys that are built around the lighter armors probably dont want those penalties to skills or the max dex limitation. Creating a super cheap 'must have' item Super cheap is relative to level but at any level where it is affordable it is not a must have for most classes, if it is even a must have for any at all. The option is open in the game I run and it has been open in a few games I have been in, so far no one has taken it, there were always either equivalent or better options for what the character wanted. And that was when the thing had a price tag of half the current one. At 6,000 gp only someone who has found a really good way to exploit it is going to bother at all. +2 Mithral chain shirt: AC +6, Max dex +6, Armor check penalty 0, I can already sleep in it so who cares about time to put it on, and I save enough gold to put an armor crystal on it. At least at the lower price it was a reasonable option sometimes. Not so much with MIC.