Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LQT 06-04-07, 11:30 AM	If I am not mistaken shapers are kind of conjuers/summoners with their astral constructs. Anyway if I am not mistaken their main method of dealing with nasty NPC is to make nasty astral construct "creatures" and make them to do the job. Now what I am wondering about is how do those astral contsruct "pets" compare against what other types of conjuers can conjure/summon? 1. Fiendbinder - He can summon some very nasty demons with nasty abilities so how do these astral constructs compare against what Fiendbinder can conjure/summon? I suppose these demons have their own special abilities, weapons and immunities/special resistances. 2. Dread Necromancer/necromancers in general - These guys make and control undeads. These undeads have their own resistances etc. so how do astral construct "pets" pets compare against undeads controlled and raised by Necromancer? 3. Druid - Well summon this summon that and natures ally so how do astral contruct "pets" compare against these? So how do these all "summons" compare against each other?
LQT 06-04-07, 11:32 AM	also just one additional question: what stops a high level dread necromancer just from sending the psion to afterlife with a finger of dead?
InkBlot 06-04-07, 11:41 AM	Astral constructs (aka Tulpas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulpa)) have very strong defenses, relatively weak offenses, and no impressive special abilities. At very high levels, if you take the Boost Construct feat, you can have tulpas which can blast rather effeciently. Tulpas have one unique ability which is kind of neat, but not very useful in a fight. Because a tulpa is formed from your own imagination, it can look like anything. A tricksy shaper could manifest a tulpa that looks exactly like himself, to sow confusion on the battlefield. Or if he was on a mission to protect the king from assassination, he could make a tulpa of the king to use in public appearances. edit: What's protecting a shaper from being hit with a finger of death? A fortitude save and power resistance. Just like anybody else. Psions have access to some good self-buffs which increase saves and grant power resistance.
LQT 06-04-07, 11:53 AM	Thanks, Based on what you explained to me about astral constructs I would say that: A) Astral Constructs can not really hold their own against what a Fiendbinder can summon/bind. As a pure summoner/pet user Fiendbinder is better and has far stronger pets. ) Astral contructs are about equal to what a Necromancer can bring to the field. C) I am not too familiar with Druids but what they can bring to the field are about as good and just slightly better than what Astral constructs are. So in essence what a Fiendbinder can summon/bind/conjure is clearly stronger than what a Shaper, Necromancer or Druid can summon/conjure/create. So am I right in my conclusions?
Deekin 06-04-07, 12:07 PM	1. Astral Constructs have one big advantage. Astral constructs are not summoned; they are created on the plane you inhabit (using ectoplasm drawn from the Astral Plane). Thus, they are not subject to effects that hedge out or otherwise affect outsiders; they are constructs, not outsiders. No banishment, no dissmissal, no holy word, not magic circle agianst evil can stop an astral construct. 2. You can't compair a fiendbinder to a strait shaper. You have to compare it to a constructer (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625b). A constructor can whip out some burly ass constructs really fast.
lears_fool 06-04-07, 12:22 PM	Well, it's kind of hard to compare effectively given that we're not talking about classes that are clones save for their summoning ability. Fiendbinders have to make some sacrifices (XP, gold, and caster levels) to get their summons. In addition, they're from the Tome of Magic, use the Truenaming mechanic, and are Evil only. . all three of which can be unpopular so even if you do think they're better you're far less likely to get a chance to play one. Druids are the other end of the spectrum. .they're actually IMHO the most powerful pure summoner with a wealth of feats (ashbound and greenbound in addition to the usual pet enhancements) and can summon spontaneously. They're also easy to get into a campaign since they're core. The Psions are kind of in the middle. Psionics is less popular than core so somtimes it's harder to play them, and the (often ignored) stealth errata in the Comp Psi hurts, but they also have some tricks up their sleeves, including Overchannel and the Constructor PRC (being able at 11th level to summon a construct with invisibility, pounce, whirlwind attack, and reach for example) has it's advantages. Really though it's a tough comparison given how much else the classes bring to the table.
The_Ditto 06-04-07, 12:50 PM	I played a Wilder/Constructor in a group alongside a Druid (with Augment summoning) .. and we did a number of "comparisons" ... What I witnessed was (as some others have already pointed out): a) Construct is harder to take down than Druid's animals ... (higher AC and some DR - at times ...) plus (usually) alot more HP. b) Druid's summons have many more spell-like abilities and "fancy-pants" solutions .. Constructs just "BFI" through anything (BFI = Brute Force and Ignorance). c) We did a comparison of Druid's Earth Elementals vs Constructs .. and in a toe-to-toe fight, constructs won almost every time. (vs anything that can swim or fly (ie Water/Air Elemental), however, constructs lost almost every time ... ) d) The menu options do give them some nice flexibility ... so they are not to be ignored or seen as "weaker". IMHO They are just "different" rather than stronger/weaker ... pick any situation where 1 excels more than the other ... and somebody can demonstrate an equal situation where the other excels more ...
LQT 06-04-07, 01:21 PM	Ok thanks :)
Particle_Man 06-04-07, 03:39 PM	One might say it is ethically better to create mindless minions on the spot than to temporarily enslave other sentient beings, or use negative energy to raise the dead, but that is a flavour issue.