Some general questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Some general questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Gunz
07-18-07, 05:23 PM 1) Delay power: if you delay multiple powers, can you use a standard action to trigger all of your delayed powers or do you need a standard action for each one of them?

2) Delay power and Temporal Acceleration: is the second condition (activates when a creature enters the area) triggered during the Temporal Acceleration or when real time resumes. Similarly, for the third condition (wait 5 rounds), do the rounds start to count in or after Temporal Acceleration.

3) Psicrystal containment: description is a bit confusing, I assume that you can use Psionic Meditation in conjunction with this power, but the wording might make you believe that it's some kind of special refocusing that always needs a full-round action

4) Schism: if you manifest it inside a Temporal Acceleration, do you get the extra actions?

Yes, I've researched this a bit, some of these questions are asked in the thread on nova's, but do not get a clear answer. And delay power and Temporal Acceleration just does bad things to my brain.
Tempest Stormwind
07-18-07, 06:13 PM 1) Delay power: if you delay multiple powers, can you use a standard action to trigger all of your delayed powers or do you need a standard action for each one of them?Each one.

2) Delay power an Temporal Acceleration: is the second condition (activates when a creature enters the area) triggered during the Temporal Acceleration or when real time resumes. Similarly, for the third condition (wait 5 rounds), do the rounds start to count in or after Temporal Acceleration. The "area" it refers to is the area of the power. Temporal Acceleration has an "area" of Personal.

Measure all effects you create in your own personal frame of reference. This is the clearest way to operate, although it *might* not be 100% clear in the rules.

3) Psicrystal containment: description is a bit confusing, I assume that you can use Psionic Meditation in conjunction with this power, but the wording might make you believe that it's some kind of special refocusing that always needs a full-round action Most people say you can use them together; RAW it's contradictory. There's no reason why it shouldn't work.

[quote4) Schism: if you manifest it inside a Temporal Acceleration, do you get the extra actions?[/quote]No; see Temporal Acceleration again. This is explicitly called out.
DrStalker
07-18-07, 06:19 PM 2) Delay power and Temporal Acceleration: is the second condition (activates when a creature enters the area) triggered during the Temporal Acceleration or when real time resumes. Similarly, for the third condition (wait 5 rounds), do the rounds start to count in or after Temporal Acceleration.

Follow-up questions:

If I cast temporal acceleration and then cast Energy Burst+delayed(trigger on entry) onto to a space that already has a creature in it does the power trigger as soon as the temporal acceleration ends?
Gunz
07-18-07, 06:26 PM That should've been "Delay power AND Temporal Acceleration", I wasn't trying to delay a TA, sorry 'bout that.

So, if you should measure everything in your own timeframe, including "when a creature enters an area" and "after 5 rounds", AND you would need a standard action to activate each delayed power seperately, how do Delay Power Novas work? Do they just take effect bit by bit for five rounds after Temporal Acceleration ends (assuming that you'd used five rounds of TA for casting the Delayed Powers)? Or is it argued that they continue to "count" in that accelerated timeframe you cast them in, and since 5 rounds there is immediately in real time, they take effect right after your TA ends? EDIT: just realised that this can't be the case, or you would never get the benefit of a buff with a duration cast in a TA.

I'm seriously considering just houseruling some of my own questions, since this just gives me headaches and a player of mine (new, but not stupid and knows his way around the internet) is now level three and has already taken Psicrystal Affinity, Overchannel, Talented and Extend Power... I'd like to be prepared for when he starts nova'ing :-)
DrStalker
07-18-07, 09:52 PM [QUOTE=Gunz;13116154]That should've been "Delay power AND Temporal Acceleration", I wasn't trying to delay a TA, sorry 'bout that.

So, if you should measure everything in your own timeframe, including "when a creature enters an area" and "after 5 rounds", AND you would need a standard action to activate each delayed power seperately, how do Delay Power Novas work?

My assumption:

1) Casting an AoE power with a triggered delay over a space that already has creatures in it will cause it to detonate immediately

Therefore:

If you cast multiple triggered delay AoE powers over an occupied space during Temporal Acceleration they will all simultaniously trigger once Temporal acceleration ends.

To an observer outside the temperal acceleration you would have appeared to manifest one power as a standard action that was immediately followed by multiple detonations.

I'm sure others will know more about this than I do, but time-affecting powers
are always a little tricky.

It gets worse with epic spells:

The character snatches him or her self from 1 round in the future, depositing this future self in an adjacent space as a free action that counts as a quickened spell. The character’s future self is technically only a possible future self (the time stream is a maelstrom of multiple probabilities), but snatching that future self from 1 round in the future collapses probability, and the possible future becomes the definite future.
[...]
Because the future self was previously only a possibility, his or her resources are not depleted as a result of whatever might occur this round (even if the character dies this round). Likewise, he or she doesn’t have any special knowledge of what might occur during this round. Because the future self is still part of the time stream, the round it spends with the character is a round it misses in its own future.
AntiDjinn
07-18-07, 11:12 PM Regarding Schism and Temporal Acceleration, as noted the power explicitly states that the second mind is not drawn into your altered temporal frame of reference.

If you have Schism up before you accelerate then, technically, you loose a round of duration; a subjective round passes for "you", Schism is a power "you" have up so its duration advances a round, but you are denied its benefit. Most DMs (myself included) would probably let you slide on this and rule that the power is suspended for a round.

If you activate Schism during your TA round (you can do this) you will have just created a secondary mind that is frozen in time relative to you. A Schism is treated "like two characters in one body" and so that second character, like all other characters in the cosmos, is stuck between ticks of the clock. You can't even communicate with your secondary mind during this round. Your hyper-temporal jabber would be faster that it could comprehend, its sub-temporal drone would be like listening to a glacier passing, so don't even try (having two characters with differing temporal phase in the same skull would probably cause one hell of a headache if they could correspond). Once your TA expires your secondary mind starts acting.
DrStalker
07-19-07, 12:17 AM If you have Schism up before you accelerate then, technically, you loose a round of duration; a subjective round passes for "you", Schism is a power "you" have up so its duration advances a round, but you are denied its benefit. Most DMs (myself included) would probably let you slide on this and rule that the power is suspended for a round.

Shouldn't it work like this:

Round 1: Cast schism
Round 2: Primary mind casts Temporal Acceleration
: Free rounds for primary mind from Temporal acceleration
: Back to normal time, and your Schism'd mind gets its action

So you don't lose a round off schism for the temporal acceleration.
AntiDjinn
07-19-07, 12:44 AM One round has passed for your character, it applies normally to all effects on timers. If you have Energy Adaptation up when you accelerate then still have its benefit during your extra round (and it will help if you encounter an energy effect) and the round does count against its remaining duration. Technically, this would apply to Schism too: Your character has it active, your character traverses one round of personal time; all counters his personal powers advance one round, even while all other effects in the universe fail to advance. But since, unlike Energy Adaptation, you don't get the benefit of Schism, I would be inclined not to decrement its timer.

And speaking of duration of effects under acceleration, what about the scaled-down version of the twin paradox? Two creatures get hit with Fate Link, at some point one of them uses TA. It experiences one round of personal time, while the other does not. If it takes damage, the other is immune. When the TA ends does the other "catch up" on damage? Or is it spared this damage because it was in a state of temporal grace? Powers you manifest during TA have their normal effect on others and the environment when TA ends, but Fate Link was not manifest during the TA and not by you in any case. Do you now have a state where the timer on Fate Link will run out one round faster on one than the other? If so, then it basically shaves one round off the total duration for the one who did not accelerate since the power can only be active on two subjects.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Gunz 07-18-07, 05:23 PM	1) Delay power: if you delay multiple powers, can you use a standard action to trigger all of your delayed powers or do you need a standard action for each one of them? 2) Delay power and Temporal Acceleration: is the second condition (activates when a creature enters the area) triggered during the Temporal Acceleration or when real time resumes. Similarly, for the third condition (wait 5 rounds), do the rounds start to count in or after Temporal Acceleration. 3) Psicrystal containment: description is a bit confusing, I assume that you can use Psionic Meditation in conjunction with this power, but the wording might make you believe that it's some kind of special refocusing that always needs a full-round action 4) Schism: if you manifest it inside a Temporal Acceleration, do you get the extra actions? Yes, I've researched this a bit, some of these questions are asked in the thread on nova's, but do not get a clear answer. And delay power and Temporal Acceleration just does bad things to my brain.
Tempest Stormwind 07-18-07, 06:13 PM	1) Delay power: if you delay multiple powers, can you use a standard action to trigger all of your delayed powers or do you need a standard action for each one of them?Each one. 2) Delay power an Temporal Acceleration: is the second condition (activates when a creature enters the area) triggered during the Temporal Acceleration or when real time resumes. Similarly, for the third condition (wait 5 rounds), do the rounds start to count in or after Temporal Acceleration. The "area" it refers to is the area of the power. Temporal Acceleration has an "area" of Personal. Measure all effects you create in your own personal frame of reference. This is the clearest way to operate, although it might not be 100% clear in the rules. 3) Psicrystal containment: description is a bit confusing, I assume that you can use Psionic Meditation in conjunction with this power, but the wording might make you believe that it's some kind of special refocusing that always needs a full-round action Most people say you can use them together; RAW it's contradictory. There's no reason why it shouldn't work. [quote4) Schism: if you manifest it inside a Temporal Acceleration, do you get the extra actions?[/quote]No; see Temporal Acceleration again. This is explicitly called out.
DrStalker 07-18-07, 06:19 PM	2) Delay power and Temporal Acceleration: is the second condition (activates when a creature enters the area) triggered during the Temporal Acceleration or when real time resumes. Similarly, for the third condition (wait 5 rounds), do the rounds start to count in or after Temporal Acceleration. Follow-up questions: If I cast temporal acceleration and then cast Energy Burst+delayed(trigger on entry) onto to a space that already has a creature in it does the power trigger as soon as the temporal acceleration ends?
Gunz 07-18-07, 06:26 PM	That should've been "Delay power AND Temporal Acceleration", I wasn't trying to delay a TA, sorry 'bout that. So, if you should measure everything in your own timeframe, including "when a creature enters an area" and "after 5 rounds", AND you would need a standard action to activate each delayed power seperately, how do Delay Power Novas work? Do they just take effect bit by bit for five rounds after Temporal Acceleration ends (assuming that you'd used five rounds of TA for casting the Delayed Powers)? Or is it argued that they continue to "count" in that accelerated timeframe you cast them in, and since 5 rounds there is immediately in real time, they take effect right after your TA ends? EDIT: just realised that this can't be the case, or you would never get the benefit of a buff with a duration cast in a TA. I'm seriously considering just houseruling some of my own questions, since this just gives me headaches and a player of mine (new, but not stupid and knows his way around the internet) is now level three and has already taken Psicrystal Affinity, Overchannel, Talented and Extend Power... I'd like to be prepared for when he starts nova'ing :-)
DrStalker 07-18-07, 09:52 PM	[QUOTE=Gunz;13116154]That should've been "Delay power AND Temporal Acceleration", I wasn't trying to delay a TA, sorry 'bout that. So, if you should measure everything in your own timeframe, including "when a creature enters an area" and "after 5 rounds", AND you would need a standard action to activate each delayed power seperately, how do Delay Power Novas work? My assumption: 1) Casting an AoE power with a triggered delay over a space that already has creatures in it will cause it to detonate immediately Therefore: If you cast multiple triggered delay AoE powers over an occupied space during Temporal Acceleration they will all simultaniously trigger once Temporal acceleration ends. To an observer outside the temperal acceleration you would have appeared to manifest one power as a standard action that was immediately followed by multiple detonations. I'm sure others will know more about this than I do, but time-affecting powers are always a little tricky. It gets worse with epic spells: The character snatches him or her self from 1 round in the future, depositing this future self in an adjacent space as a free action that counts as a quickened spell. The character’s future self is technically only a possible future self (the time stream is a maelstrom of multiple probabilities), but snatching that future self from 1 round in the future collapses probability, and the possible future becomes the definite future. [...] Because the future self was previously only a possibility, his or her resources are not depleted as a result of whatever might occur this round (even if the character dies this round). Likewise, he or she doesn’t have any special knowledge of what might occur during this round. Because the future self is still part of the time stream, the round it spends with the character is a round it misses in its own future.
AntiDjinn 07-18-07, 11:12 PM	Regarding Schism and Temporal Acceleration, as noted the power explicitly states that the second mind is not drawn into your altered temporal frame of reference. If you have Schism up before you accelerate then, technically, you loose a round of duration; a subjective round passes for "you", Schism is a power "you" have up so its duration advances a round, but you are denied its benefit. Most DMs (myself included) would probably let you slide on this and rule that the power is suspended for a round. If you activate Schism during your TA round (you can do this) you will have just created a secondary mind that is frozen in time relative to you. A Schism is treated "like two characters in one body" and so that second character, like all other characters in the cosmos, is stuck between ticks of the clock. You can't even communicate with your secondary mind during this round. Your hyper-temporal jabber would be faster that it could comprehend, its sub-temporal drone would be like listening to a glacier passing, so don't even try (having two characters with differing temporal phase in the same skull would probably cause one hell of a headache if they could correspond). Once your TA expires your secondary mind starts acting.
DrStalker 07-19-07, 12:17 AM	If you have Schism up before you accelerate then, technically, you loose a round of duration; a subjective round passes for "you", Schism is a power "you" have up so its duration advances a round, but you are denied its benefit. Most DMs (myself included) would probably let you slide on this and rule that the power is suspended for a round. Shouldn't it work like this: Round 1: Cast schism Round 2: Primary mind casts Temporal Acceleration : Free rounds for primary mind from Temporal acceleration : Back to normal time, and your Schism'd mind gets its action So you don't lose a round off schism for the temporal acceleration.
AntiDjinn 07-19-07, 12:44 AM	One round has passed for your character, it applies normally to all effects on timers. If you have Energy Adaptation up when you accelerate then still have its benefit during your extra round (and it will help if you encounter an energy effect) and the round does count against its remaining duration. Technically, this would apply to Schism too: Your character has it active, your character traverses one round of personal time; all counters his personal powers advance one round, even while all other effects in the universe fail to advance. But since, unlike Energy Adaptation, you don't get the benefit of Schism, I would be inclined not to decrement its timer. And speaking of duration of effects under acceleration, what about the scaled-down version of the twin paradox? Two creatures get hit with Fate Link, at some point one of them uses TA. It experiences one round of personal time, while the other does not. If it takes damage, the other is immune. When the TA ends does the other "catch up" on damage? Or is it spared this damage because it was in a state of temporal grace? Powers you manifest during TA have their normal effect on others and the environment when TA ends, but Fate Link was not manifest during the TA and not by you in any case. Do you now have a state where the timer on Fate Link will run out one round faster on one than the other? If so, then it basically shaves one round off the total duration for the one who did not accelerate since the power can only be active on two subjects.