Some Minor Creation questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Some Minor Creation questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
GeminiDreams
06-03-07, 02:04 PM First of all, what is 'vegetable' defined as if it can make wood too?

But the main questions are:
1-Isn't it impossible to gain nutritional benefit from food created by it because it goes away at 'some' point which means that even as it's fundamental proteins, carbs, and fats, that they disappear too?
2-What kind of Craft skills would be most commonly used for Minor Creation and possibly Fabricate?
Particle_Man
06-03-07, 02:27 PM I think vegetable means vegetable as vs. animal or mineral, so wood is fine.

Yah, you don't get long term nutritional value from oranges or orange juice you create with minor creation, though it might be refreshing for a while. Maybe repeated castings would allow someone without food to delay starvation a bit, but I think the amount of food you would need to eat would keep increasing, as you need to both replace the disappearing food and to get new food as time goes on.

Craft Sculpture is pretty good, for general purposes. But if you go with Craft Poison Making then you can get pretty nasty vegetable based poisons going (black lotus extract is a popular one).
BloodyChariot
06-03-07, 04:33 PM 1.
"Vegetable" isn't an actual botanical term, so the way I see it, it's exactly as how Particle_Man describes it.

I would never eat something from Minor Creation. Imagine: you eat a bunch of fruits, which get digested into your system. The molecules from the food are processed and distributed throughout your body. Then, at the end of the spell's duration, the stuff you created winks out of existence. All those molecules from that stuff would wink out too, and suddenly your body experiences a big shock from the sudden loss of nutrients (forcing your body to conserve its energy, which results in you getting dizzy and blacking out). If you somehow wait long enough for that matter to become integrated into your body, I would imagine it would produce an effect not unlike a weakened Baleful Teleport.

In short, when it comes to hunger and Minor Creation, just say no.

2.
check this out: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=747757
InkBlot
06-03-07, 06:26 PM With creating foods, I houserule that it only provides nutrition if you can make it last for 8 hours. After that point, it's completely absorbed into your body. This might not be accurate biologicaly, but it fits with so many other things in D&D which require 8 hours, and makes it impractical until after you could have already had learned sustinance.

I don't think any good DM could be cruel enough to say "after three hours, the constituent ectoplasm evaporates back to the astral plane. The sudden loss of bloodsugar throws your body into shock. Make a DC 20 fortitude save vs death."
BloodyChariot
06-03-07, 06:58 PM Cruel? It's a rational train of thought. Then again, there's no one at our gaming table who's not a pre-med or pre-prof major, lol. We all independently figured it would happen, so we just followed it like a de facto standard.

And I don't really see sudden death as a statistically significant outcome. I'd make it normal -> nauseated -> unconscious -> normal, with decent fortitude saves at every step.
taski
06-04-07, 01:43 AM Even if the created food doesn't kill PCs, it would still be a sneaky way to incapacitate an enemy. It wouldn't even show up on detect poison, either. :plotting:
hovnarr
06-04-07, 03:27 AM Even if the created food doesn't kill PCs, it would still be a sneaky way to incapacitate an enemy. It wouldn't even show up on detect poison, either.

Yeah, from a game balance perspective, the potential offensive possibilities of non-permanent food greatly outweighs the utility benefits of creating the occasional waldorf sallad.

And metabolizing food is usually even quicker than 8 hours, unless you're a ruminant. But I think 8 hours is a good rule of thumb.
BlaineTog
06-04-07, 04:55 AM Even if the created food doesn't kill PCs, it would still be a sneaky way to incapacitate an enemy. It wouldn't even show up on detect poison, either. :plotting:And this is why physics is our friend.

Actually, if you make it into some sort of food which your body would take in such a way as to only use it as energy, and to use its energy immediatelly, then you'd be perfectly fine, as all the ectoplasm would have left your body as mechanical or heat energy by the end of the duration. This, of course, depends on such a food existing, and you'd still need some sort of dietary supplement, as this would only supply calories.
Lycanthromancer
06-05-07, 02:12 PM Wouldn't stomach acid destroy the ectoplasm before you could get any nutritional benefits from it?
BloodyChariot
06-05-07, 02:58 PM Wait, what's this about ectoplasm being digested? Minor creation creates (according to the SRD) "nonpsionic, nonmagical" material. It's not made of ectoplasm, it's real, albeit for a limited about of time.

However, if one were to eat raw ectoplasm (ew.), I'm sure it wouldn't be destroyed by stomach acid. After all, astral constructs and walls of ectoplasm are nothing more than ectoplasm, and they seem to stand up to a lot of punishment.

But really, this all depends on the chemical properties of ectoplasm, which we don't know.
CrimsonDeath
06-05-07, 03:01 PM More precisely, I believe the stomach acid would destroy the ectoplasm before you would get any nutritional benefits. Whether you're capable of getting any nutritional benefits would depend largely on what the DM rules happens when ectoplasm that's shaped into a particular substance undergoes a chemical change.

As for foods that could be digested quickly... Pure cane sugar comes to mind. Alcohol does as well.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GeminiDreams 06-03-07, 02:04 PM	First of all, what is 'vegetable' defined as if it can make wood too? But the main questions are: 1-Isn't it impossible to gain nutritional benefit from food created by it because it goes away at 'some' point which means that even as it's fundamental proteins, carbs, and fats, that they disappear too? 2-What kind of Craft skills would be most commonly used for Minor Creation and possibly Fabricate?
Particle_Man 06-03-07, 02:27 PM	I think vegetable means vegetable as vs. animal or mineral, so wood is fine. Yah, you don't get long term nutritional value from oranges or orange juice you create with minor creation, though it might be refreshing for a while. Maybe repeated castings would allow someone without food to delay starvation a bit, but I think the amount of food you would need to eat would keep increasing, as you need to both replace the disappearing food and to get new food as time goes on. Craft Sculpture is pretty good, for general purposes. But if you go with Craft Poison Making then you can get pretty nasty vegetable based poisons going (black lotus extract is a popular one).
BloodyChariot 06-03-07, 04:33 PM	1. "Vegetable" isn't an actual botanical term, so the way I see it, it's exactly as how Particle_Man describes it. I would never eat something from Minor Creation. Imagine: you eat a bunch of fruits, which get digested into your system. The molecules from the food are processed and distributed throughout your body. Then, at the end of the spell's duration, the stuff you created winks out of existence. All those molecules from that stuff would wink out too, and suddenly your body experiences a big shock from the sudden loss of nutrients (forcing your body to conserve its energy, which results in you getting dizzy and blacking out). If you somehow wait long enough for that matter to become integrated into your body, I would imagine it would produce an effect not unlike a weakened Baleful Teleport. In short, when it comes to hunger and Minor Creation, just say no. 2. check this out: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=747757
InkBlot 06-03-07, 06:26 PM	With creating foods, I houserule that it only provides nutrition if you can make it last for 8 hours. After that point, it's completely absorbed into your body. This might not be accurate biologicaly, but it fits with so many other things in D&D which require 8 hours, and makes it impractical until after you could have already had learned sustinance. I don't think any good DM could be cruel enough to say "after three hours, the constituent ectoplasm evaporates back to the astral plane. The sudden loss of bloodsugar throws your body into shock. Make a DC 20 fortitude save vs death."
BloodyChariot 06-03-07, 06:58 PM	Cruel? It's a rational train of thought. Then again, there's no one at our gaming table who's not a pre-med or pre-prof major, lol. We all independently figured it would happen, so we just followed it like a de facto standard. And I don't really see sudden death as a statistically significant outcome. I'd make it normal -> nauseated -> unconscious -> normal, with decent fortitude saves at every step.
taski 06-04-07, 01:43 AM	Even if the created food doesn't kill PCs, it would still be a sneaky way to incapacitate an enemy. It wouldn't even show up on detect poison, either. :plotting:
hovnarr 06-04-07, 03:27 AM	Even if the created food doesn't kill PCs, it would still be a sneaky way to incapacitate an enemy. It wouldn't even show up on detect poison, either. Yeah, from a game balance perspective, the potential offensive possibilities of non-permanent food greatly outweighs the utility benefits of creating the occasional waldorf sallad. And metabolizing food is usually even quicker than 8 hours, unless you're a ruminant. But I think 8 hours is a good rule of thumb.
BlaineTog 06-04-07, 04:55 AM	Even if the created food doesn't kill PCs, it would still be a sneaky way to incapacitate an enemy. It wouldn't even show up on detect poison, either. :plotting:And this is why physics is our friend. Actually, if you make it into some sort of food which your body would take in such a way as to only use it as energy, and to use its energy immediatelly, then you'd be perfectly fine, as all the ectoplasm would have left your body as mechanical or heat energy by the end of the duration. This, of course, depends on such a food existing, and you'd still need some sort of dietary supplement, as this would only supply calories.
Lycanthromancer 06-05-07, 02:12 PM	Wouldn't stomach acid destroy the ectoplasm before you could get any nutritional benefits from it?
BloodyChariot 06-05-07, 02:58 PM	Wait, what's this about ectoplasm being digested? Minor creation creates (according to the SRD) "nonpsionic, nonmagical" material. It's not made of ectoplasm, it's real, albeit for a limited about of time. However, if one were to eat raw ectoplasm (ew.), I'm sure it wouldn't be destroyed by stomach acid. After all, astral constructs and walls of ectoplasm are nothing more than ectoplasm, and they seem to stand up to a lot of punishment. But really, this all depends on the chemical properties of ectoplasm, which we don't know.
CrimsonDeath 06-05-07, 03:01 PM	More precisely, I believe the stomach acid would destroy the ectoplasm before you would get any nutritional benefits. Whether you're capable of getting any nutritional benefits would depend largely on what the DM rules happens when ectoplasm that's shaped into a particular substance undergoes a chemical change. As for foods that could be digested quickly... Pure cane sugar comes to mind. Alcohol does as well.