Soulknife Questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Soulknife Questions [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
LabRat_1338
08-03-07, 06:02 PM Ok, so I've been playing a soulknife for about 3-4 months now and I've been running into all kinds of weird rule problems.
Sorry if these have been covered before, I don't get many chances to read the forums.

1) Weapon proficiencies: The soulknife get weapon proficency with the mindblade and simple weapons ONLY. Swort sword, long sword, and bastard sword (2-handed) are all martial weapons. Do I take a -4 non-proficiency penalty? Or does my Mindblade proficency mean I'm proficient with it in all forms?
If the latter is the case, why do I need to take Exotic weapon proficency for a mindblade shaped into an orc double axe or bastard sword?

2) Weapon focus: Soulknives get Weapon Focus (Mindblade) at 1st level. If I take Weapon Focus (Longsword) or Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword), does the bonus stack? What about other feats like Weapon Specalization?
Technically, the bonus is untyped and should therefore stack.
(I'm inclinded to think "no", despite my argument, but I'm curious as to the "why" of it.)

3) Throw Mind Blade when combinded with Shape Mind Blade: If my Mind Blade is in the form of a Bastard Sword, does it have the same range increment (30ft) as it does in it's basic form? Do I take a -4 penalty because it isn't designed to be thrown? Does it take a standard or full round action to throw? And do I get the normal Critical range, or crit on 20 only?
(PHB 113, Thrown Weapons)

4) Throw Mind Blade and Mind Blade Enhancement: If I enhance my Mind Blade with an ability which only funtions for a melee weapon (Wounding, for example), does it apply when I throw my mind blade?

5) Shape Mind Blade and Multiple Throw: If my mindblade is in the shape of a longsword or Bastard sword (or any other shape), are my iteritive attacks done with the same weapon damage? Or do the 2nd and 3rd attacks do D6 damage?

I'm sure there's others, but I can't remember them right now.
Any advice on dealing with these problems would be greatly appreciated.
Tempest Stormwind
08-03-07, 06:26 PM 1) Weapon proficiencies: The soulknife get weapon proficency with the mindblade and simple weapons ONLY. Swort sword, long sword, and bastard sword (2-handed) are all martial weapons. Do I take a -4 non-proficiency penalty? Or does my Mindblade proficency mean I'm proficient with it in all forms?
If the latter is the case, why do I need to take Exotic weapon proficency for a mindblade shaped into an orc double axe or bastard sword?

You are proficient with your mind blade. Your mind blade in any form is still your mind blade.

You don't need EWP, but you do need Exotic Mind Blade Shape. It's a weak feat, but still.

Note that EWP: Bastard Sword isn't based on using a bastard sword, it's based on using a bastard sword in one hand. You can still use a bastard sword two-handed without a problem with your mind blade.

2) Weapon focus: Soulknives get Weapon Focus (Mindblade) at 1st level. If I take Weapon Focus (Longsword) or Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword), does the bonus stack? What about other feats like Weapon Specalization?
Technically, the bonus is untyped and should therefore stack.
(I'm inclinded to think "no", despite my argument, but I'm curious as to the "why" of it.)

Untyped bonuses from the same source (here, Weapon Focus) do not stack. Thus, no.

3) Throw Mind Blade when combinded with Shape Mind Blade: If my Mind Blade is in the form of a Bastard Sword, does it have the same range increment (30ft) as it does in it's basic form? Do I take a -4 penalty because it isn't designed to be thrown? Does it take a standard or full round action to throw? And do I get the normal Critical range, or crit on 20 only?
(PHB 113, Thrown Weapons)

It's a two-handed weapon without Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword. Two-handed weapons require full-round actions to throw by default. However, the range is still based on the mind blade, which is pretty damn good for a thrown weapon.

All other stats are identical to the mind blade. Why would you ever assume it would only crit on a 20, for instance?

4) Throw Mind Blade and Mind Blade Enhancement: If I enhance my Mind Blade with an ability which only funtions for a melee weapon (Wounding, for example), does it apply when I throw my mind blade?

No, since you're throwing it and that's a melee ability. It's sort of like trying to apply Psionic Weapon to a thrown attack -- no melee attack, no ability. Note that you can get identical results with a Wounding hammer, say, that your dwarf warrior throws.

5) Shape Mind Blade and Multiple Throw: If my mindblade is in the shape of a longsword or Bastard sword (or any other shape), are my iteritive attacks done with the same weapon damage? Or do the 2nd and 3rd attacks do D6 damage?

See the FAQ in the top of the forum; according to the sage your mind blade is always a shortsword until you shape it, according to everything else it retains its form.
LabRat_1338
08-03-07, 08:11 PM Why would you ever assume it would only crit on a 20, for instance?

If the shaped mind blade didn't qualify for the regular mind blades range, then this would apply:
PHB 113: "It is possible to throw a weapon that isn't designed to be thrown, but a character who does so takes a -4 penalty on the attack roll. ... Regardless of the type of weapon, such an attack scores a threat only on a natural 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. Such a weapon has a range increment of 10 feet."

5) Shape Mind Blade and Multiple Throw: If my mindblade is in the shape of a longsword or Bastard sword (or any other shape), are my iteritive attacks done with the same weapon damage? Or do the 2nd and 3rd attacks do D6 damage?

See the FAQ in the top of the forum; according to the sage your mind blade is always a shortsword until you shape it, according to everything else it retains its form.

Yes, but my weapon dosen't have the returning ability, so therefore I'm generating a new mind blade with each throw which would imply that the new blade forms as a short sword. But since it dosen't say that it reverts, and it's possible to multiple throw a doubled mind blade, I'm not sure.

This can be VERY important in some situations, since a short sword deals piercing while a longsword deals slashing damage.
I've already had 1 argument with a friend over this. =S

And I checked the FAQ/Sage advice before posting... either I'm doing something wrong, or it hasen't been covered yet.
Teh_username
08-03-07, 09:21 PM ...why do I need to take Exotic weapon proficency for a mindblade shaped into an orc double axe or bastard sword?
Because the feat does not give you proficiency in wielding your mindblade version of a {insert appropriate double weapon here}, it gives you the ability to shape your mindblade into a {insert appropriate double weapon here}. A subtle-but-important difference.
LabRat_1338
08-03-07, 09:30 PM Because the feat does not give you proficiency in wielding your mindblade version of a {insert appropriate double weapon here}, it gives you the ability to shape your mindblade into a {insert appropriate double weapon here}. A subtle-but-important difference.

I never asked HOW to turn my mind blade into an Orc double axe. I know that.
What I was asking was do I take a non-proficency penalty for useing an Orc Double Axe Mindblade if I don't have EWP (Orc Double Axe).
I'm asking since EWP (Orc Double Axe) isn't a prerequisite for the shape mind blade feat, so it's quite possible that this would happen.
Tempest Stormwind
08-03-07, 09:32 PM I never asked HOW to turn my mind blade into an Orc double axe. I know that.
What I was asking was do I take a non-proficency penalty for useing an Orc Double Axe Mindblade if I don't have EWP (Orc Double Axe).
I'm asking since EWP (Orc Double Axe) isn't a prerequisite for the shape mind blade feat, so it's quite possible that this would happen.

Except of all your questions, that's the clearest. It's still your mind blade. You're still proficient with it.
Teh_username
08-03-07, 10:46 PM I never asked HOW to turn my mind blade into an Orc double axe. I know that.
What I was asking was do I take a non-proficency penalty for useing an Orc Double Axe Mindblade if I don't have EWP (Orc Double Axe).
I'm asking since EWP (Orc Double Axe) isn't a prerequisite for the shape mind blade feat, so it's quite possible that this would happen.
You're still proficient with it, as it's still your mindblade. That's why I was making the distinction - the feat allows you to shape it, and you retain proficiency regardless as it's still your mindblade, now in a different shape.
TheKeyofE
08-05-07, 05:44 PM The Orc Double Axe Mind Blade and Two-bladed Mind Blade feats both specifically say you are treated as having the exotic weapon proficiency for your new mind blade. Just read the feat description more closely.

This brings up an interesting dilemma in my mind (...blade). Normally, two-weapon fighting is not that good with a soulknife, since if you form two shortswords they both have an enhancement bonus one lower than normal.

Unless I'm reading something wrong, Two-bladed Mind Blade and Orc Double Axe Mind Blade have no such restriction. So you could take the feat, TWF just like with a normal double axe, and your mind blade would still have your full enhancement bonus on both ends of the weapon. Is this correct? If so, why has no one noticed this before?

This makes these feats much more useful, certainly more so than their EWP counterparts. The only downside is your mindblade would only hold one Psychic Strike, where dual short swords could hold one strike each. Oh, and there's no DEX synergy with weapon finesse. Because of this, if you were to take Orc Double Axe Mind Blade, it would be a good idea to take the Mind's Eye variant soulknife that gains bonus feats instead of Psychic Strike (unless you're using the BlaineTog soulknife, who has enough bonus Psionic feats that you could safely use your normal feats for the TWF tree).
InkBlot
08-05-07, 06:22 PM Is this correct? If so, why has no one noticed this before?
Yes. It is correct. And no, people did notice this before. It was noticed on the day that ComPsi came out.

People don't talk about it much because it's not all that fantastic. Even with this benefit, Soulknives still aren't as good at TWF as a rogue.

You do have something going there with the idea of combing the Double Ax Mindblade feat with the Bonus Feats variant. Especially if you interpret "any feat which benefits your mind blade" to mean "almost any combat related feat." Then you could use those feats to get Martial Stance (Assassin's Stance).
TheKeyofE
08-05-07, 07:43 PM Yes. It is correct. And no, people did notice this before. It was noticed on the day that ComPsi came out.

OIC. I checked the soulknife build guide compendium and a couple other threads and didn't see anything, so I reasoned no one had figured it out. Knowing how many uber-critical thinkers there are on these boards, I should have realized differently.
InkBlot
08-05-07, 08:17 PM Is OIC an abbreviation for "oh, I see?"
TheKeyofE
08-05-07, 09:02 PM Yes.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LabRat_1338 08-03-07, 06:02 PM	Ok, so I've been playing a soulknife for about 3-4 months now and I've been running into all kinds of weird rule problems. Sorry if these have been covered before, I don't get many chances to read the forums. 1) Weapon proficiencies: The soulknife get weapon proficency with the mindblade and simple weapons ONLY. Swort sword, long sword, and bastard sword (2-handed) are all martial weapons. Do I take a -4 non-proficiency penalty? Or does my Mindblade proficency mean I'm proficient with it in all forms? If the latter is the case, why do I need to take Exotic weapon proficency for a mindblade shaped into an orc double axe or bastard sword? 2) Weapon focus: Soulknives get Weapon Focus (Mindblade) at 1st level. If I take Weapon Focus (Longsword) or Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword), does the bonus stack? What about other feats like Weapon Specalization? Technically, the bonus is untyped and should therefore stack. (I'm inclinded to think "no", despite my argument, but I'm curious as to the "why" of it.) 3) Throw Mind Blade when combinded with Shape Mind Blade: If my Mind Blade is in the form of a Bastard Sword, does it have the same range increment (30ft) as it does in it's basic form? Do I take a -4 penalty because it isn't designed to be thrown? Does it take a standard or full round action to throw? And do I get the normal Critical range, or crit on 20 only? (PHB 113, Thrown Weapons) 4) Throw Mind Blade and Mind Blade Enhancement: If I enhance my Mind Blade with an ability which only funtions for a melee weapon (Wounding, for example), does it apply when I throw my mind blade? 5) Shape Mind Blade and Multiple Throw: If my mindblade is in the shape of a longsword or Bastard sword (or any other shape), are my iteritive attacks done with the same weapon damage? Or do the 2nd and 3rd attacks do D6 damage? I'm sure there's others, but I can't remember them right now. Any advice on dealing with these problems would be greatly appreciated.
Tempest Stormwind 08-03-07, 06:26 PM	1) Weapon proficiencies: The soulknife get weapon proficency with the mindblade and simple weapons ONLY. Swort sword, long sword, and bastard sword (2-handed) are all martial weapons. Do I take a -4 non-proficiency penalty? Or does my Mindblade proficency mean I'm proficient with it in all forms? If the latter is the case, why do I need to take Exotic weapon proficency for a mindblade shaped into an orc double axe or bastard sword? You are proficient with your mind blade. Your mind blade in any form is still your mind blade. You don't need EWP, but you do need Exotic Mind Blade Shape. It's a weak feat, but still. Note that EWP: Bastard Sword isn't based on using a bastard sword, it's based on using a bastard sword in one hand. You can still use a bastard sword two-handed without a problem with your mind blade. 2) Weapon focus: Soulknives get Weapon Focus (Mindblade) at 1st level. If I take Weapon Focus (Longsword) or Weapon Focus (Bastard Sword), does the bonus stack? What about other feats like Weapon Specalization? Technically, the bonus is untyped and should therefore stack. (I'm inclinded to think "no", despite my argument, but I'm curious as to the "why" of it.) Untyped bonuses from the same source (here, Weapon Focus) do not stack. Thus, no. 3) Throw Mind Blade when combinded with Shape Mind Blade: If my Mind Blade is in the form of a Bastard Sword, does it have the same range increment (30ft) as it does in it's basic form? Do I take a -4 penalty because it isn't designed to be thrown? Does it take a standard or full round action to throw? And do I get the normal Critical range, or crit on 20 only? (PHB 113, Thrown Weapons) It's a two-handed weapon without Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword. Two-handed weapons require full-round actions to throw by default. However, the range is still based on the mind blade, which is pretty damn good for a thrown weapon. All other stats are identical to the mind blade. Why would you ever assume it would only crit on a 20, for instance? 4) Throw Mind Blade and Mind Blade Enhancement: If I enhance my Mind Blade with an ability which only funtions for a melee weapon (Wounding, for example), does it apply when I throw my mind blade? No, since you're throwing it and that's a melee ability. It's sort of like trying to apply Psionic Weapon to a thrown attack -- no melee attack, no ability. Note that you can get identical results with a Wounding hammer, say, that your dwarf warrior throws. 5) Shape Mind Blade and Multiple Throw: If my mindblade is in the shape of a longsword or Bastard sword (or any other shape), are my iteritive attacks done with the same weapon damage? Or do the 2nd and 3rd attacks do D6 damage? See the FAQ in the top of the forum; according to the sage your mind blade is always a shortsword until you shape it, according to everything else it retains its form.
LabRat_1338 08-03-07, 08:11 PM	Why would you ever assume it would only crit on a 20, for instance? If the shaped mind blade didn't qualify for the regular mind blades range, then this would apply: PHB 113: "It is possible to throw a weapon that isn't designed to be thrown, but a character who does so takes a -4 penalty on the attack roll. ... Regardless of the type of weapon, such an attack scores a threat only on a natural 20 and deals double damage on a critical hit. Such a weapon has a range increment of 10 feet." 5) Shape Mind Blade and Multiple Throw: If my mindblade is in the shape of a longsword or Bastard sword (or any other shape), are my iteritive attacks done with the same weapon damage? Or do the 2nd and 3rd attacks do D6 damage? See the FAQ in the top of the forum; according to the sage your mind blade is always a shortsword until you shape it, according to everything else it retains its form. Yes, but my weapon dosen't have the returning ability, so therefore I'm generating a new mind blade with each throw which would imply that the new blade forms as a short sword. But since it dosen't say that it reverts, and it's possible to multiple throw a doubled mind blade, I'm not sure. This can be VERY important in some situations, since a short sword deals piercing while a longsword deals slashing damage. I've already had 1 argument with a friend over this. =S And I checked the FAQ/Sage advice before posting... either I'm doing something wrong, or it hasen't been covered yet.
Teh_username 08-03-07, 09:21 PM	...why do I need to take Exotic weapon proficency for a mindblade shaped into an orc double axe or bastard sword? Because the feat does not give you proficiency in wielding your mindblade version of a {insert appropriate double weapon here}, it gives you the ability to shape your mindblade into a {insert appropriate double weapon here}. A subtle-but-important difference.
LabRat_1338 08-03-07, 09:30 PM	Because the feat does not give you proficiency in wielding your mindblade version of a {insert appropriate double weapon here}, it gives you the ability to shape your mindblade into a {insert appropriate double weapon here}. A subtle-but-important difference. I never asked HOW to turn my mind blade into an Orc double axe. I know that. What I was asking was do I take a non-proficency penalty for useing an Orc Double Axe Mindblade if I don't have EWP (Orc Double Axe). I'm asking since EWP (Orc Double Axe) isn't a prerequisite for the shape mind blade feat, so it's quite possible that this would happen.
Tempest Stormwind 08-03-07, 09:32 PM	I never asked HOW to turn my mind blade into an Orc double axe. I know that. What I was asking was do I take a non-proficency penalty for useing an Orc Double Axe Mindblade if I don't have EWP (Orc Double Axe). I'm asking since EWP (Orc Double Axe) isn't a prerequisite for the shape mind blade feat, so it's quite possible that this would happen. Except of all your questions, that's the clearest. It's still your mind blade. You're still proficient with it.
Teh_username 08-03-07, 10:46 PM	I never asked HOW to turn my mind blade into an Orc double axe. I know that. What I was asking was do I take a non-proficency penalty for useing an Orc Double Axe Mindblade if I don't have EWP (Orc Double Axe). I'm asking since EWP (Orc Double Axe) isn't a prerequisite for the shape mind blade feat, so it's quite possible that this would happen. You're still proficient with it, as it's still your mindblade. That's why I was making the distinction - the feat allows you to shape it, and you retain proficiency regardless as it's still your mindblade, now in a different shape.
TheKeyofE 08-05-07, 05:44 PM	The Orc Double Axe Mind Blade and Two-bladed Mind Blade feats both specifically say you are treated as having the exotic weapon proficiency for your new mind blade. Just read the feat description more closely. This brings up an interesting dilemma in my mind (...blade). Normally, two-weapon fighting is not that good with a soulknife, since if you form two shortswords they both have an enhancement bonus one lower than normal. Unless I'm reading something wrong, Two-bladed Mind Blade and Orc Double Axe Mind Blade have no such restriction. So you could take the feat, TWF just like with a normal double axe, and your mind blade would still have your full enhancement bonus on both ends of the weapon. Is this correct? If so, why has no one noticed this before? This makes these feats much more useful, certainly more so than their EWP counterparts. The only downside is your mindblade would only hold one Psychic Strike, where dual short swords could hold one strike each. Oh, and there's no DEX synergy with weapon finesse. Because of this, if you were to take Orc Double Axe Mind Blade, it would be a good idea to take the Mind's Eye variant soulknife that gains bonus feats instead of Psychic Strike (unless you're using the BlaineTog soulknife, who has enough bonus Psionic feats that you could safely use your normal feats for the TWF tree).
InkBlot 08-05-07, 06:22 PM	Is this correct? If so, why has no one noticed this before? Yes. It is correct. And no, people did notice this before. It was noticed on the day that ComPsi came out. People don't talk about it much because it's not all that fantastic. Even with this benefit, Soulknives still aren't as good at TWF as a rogue. You do have something going there with the idea of combing the Double Ax Mindblade feat with the Bonus Feats variant. Especially if you interpret "any feat which benefits your mind blade" to mean "almost any combat related feat." Then you could use those feats to get Martial Stance (Assassin's Stance).
TheKeyofE 08-05-07, 07:43 PM	Yes. It is correct. And no, people did notice this before. It was noticed on the day that ComPsi came out. OIC. I checked the soulknife build guide compendium and a couple other threads and didn't see anything, so I reasoned no one had figured it out. Knowing how many uber-critical thinkers there are on these boards, I should have realized differently.
InkBlot 08-05-07, 08:17 PM	Is OIC an abbreviation for "oh, I see?"
TheKeyofE 08-05-07, 09:02 PM	Yes.