Split Ray Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Split Ray Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
spotH3D
09-09-07, 09:21 PM When using Split Ray, can both rays produced target the same enemy?

If so would that not mean that a Level 20 psion could hit for 36D6 w/ Crystal Shard?
Yorath_theWolf
09-09-07, 09:32 PM they can, but my understanding, and I'll readilly admit I could be wrong here, is that the second ray is only there if the first is somehow saved against. yeah that does nothing for Crystal Shard really but my admittedly limited understanding say that with both rays targeted at the same thing, only one ray actually 'damages' the target. if you want both rays to do full damage than Twinning it seems to be the way togo.
InkBlot
09-09-07, 10:17 PM No. It has to be aimed at two targets. You can't hit the same guy twice with a split ray, because that would only be one target.

It doesn't matter how realistic it might seem, you're not going to double your damage for one two extra power points and psionic focus.

SPLIT PSIONIC RAY [METAPSIONIC]
You can affect two targets with a single ray.
Prerequisite: Any other metapsionic feat.
Benefit: To use this feat, you must expend your psionic focus. You can split psionic rays you manifest. The split ray affects any two targets that are both within the power’s range and within 30 feet of each other. If the ray deals damage, each target takes as much damage as a single target would take.

Using this feat increases the power point cost of the power by 2.
hovnarr
09-10-07, 05:57 AM Interestingly enough, the corresponding arcane feat has the EXACT same rules text EXCEPT that it expressly states that YES, you can hit the same target twice.

That is why the recommendation is usually to allow same target for both rays IF you also use Complete Arcane and allow the arcane feat. If you only use SRD/XPH, you probably shouldn't allow it.

Crystal Shard is the only one with breakable potential using SPR, but the CPsi errata takes the edge off it since DR will then count twice if you split it and damage will only be moderate. So I say, allow it if you use CPsi errata, otherwise don't because you can one-shot golems with it.
InkBlot
09-10-07, 09:32 AM So it's OK to make psionics overpowered because spellcasters are overpowered?

Split Ray (which was published months after the XPH) does not use the EXACT same rules text as Split Psionic Ray. Furthermore, Split Ray is more expensive than Split Psionic Ray.

Maximize Spell uses a slot 3 levels higher. Split Ray uses a slot 2 levels higher. That's only one spell level of difference, enough to account for the fact that you have to roll to hit twice. Applying either feat will get you the same damage, on average.

Maximize Power uses an extra 6 power points. Split Psionic Ray uses an extra 2 power points. Maximize has the same increase as it's magic counterpart, but Split is dramatically reduced in price. If you Maximize a power, you need to be over 12th level to see a benefit. If you Split a psionic ray, and allow each ray to hit the same creature, then you only need to be past 4th level to see the same increase in damage.

Split Psionic Ray is just there for manifesters to get more versatility out of their ray powers, not to get more power out of them. Single-power versatility is what psionics does. Split Psionic Ray compares to powers that have augments for additional targets, such as concussion blast.
hovnarr
09-10-07, 11:46 AM So it's OK to make psionics overpowered because spellcasters are overpowered?

The issue is not if it's "OK" or not. The point was that if you accept a certain power level for arcane classes in your campaign, psionics shouldn't be nerfed to a lower power level.

Split Ray (which was published months after the XPH) does not use the EXACT same rules text as Split Psionic Ray.

I don't have CA infront of me, but last I checked it was the same feat verbatim, apart from the last sentence in the arcane version of the feat which specified that both targets could be the same creature.

Furthermore, Split Ray is more expensive than Split Psionic Ray.

All metamagic feats are one effective spell level more expensive than their metapsionic counterparts. Split Ray is no exception, and nor is Maximize Power which costs 4 extra pp, not 6. The reason is to compensate the psion player for augmentation.

Take the exampel of fireball/energyball. Empowered fireball costs a 5th level slot, which is available at level 9, and it will do 1.5x9d6 damage. A 9 pp empowered energy ball will only do 1.5x7d6 damage.
Lycanthromancer
09-10-07, 11:49 AM Not to mention compensation for the restrictions of metapsionic feats requiring focus, AND only being able to use (at maximum) 2 foci simultaneously, AND the feats required to use metapsionics a practical strategem. :)
InkBlot
09-10-07, 01:07 PM Maximize Power which costs 4 extra pp, not 6.
Sorry. I've been making mistakes like that all day. Therefore, I'm abstaining from this discussion until I find my brain.

I had the books out in front of me when I compared Split Ray to Split Psionic Ray, but now I'm doubting my eyes.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
spotH3D 09-09-07, 09:21 PM	When using Split Ray, can both rays produced target the same enemy? If so would that not mean that a Level 20 psion could hit for 36D6 w/ Crystal Shard?
Yorath_theWolf 09-09-07, 09:32 PM	they can, but my understanding, and I'll readilly admit I could be wrong here, is that the second ray is only there if the first is somehow saved against. yeah that does nothing for Crystal Shard really but my admittedly limited understanding say that with both rays targeted at the same thing, only one ray actually 'damages' the target. if you want both rays to do full damage than Twinning it seems to be the way togo.
InkBlot 09-09-07, 10:17 PM	No. It has to be aimed at two targets. You can't hit the same guy twice with a split ray, because that would only be one target. It doesn't matter how realistic it might seem, you're not going to double your damage for one two extra power points and psionic focus. SPLIT PSIONIC RAY [METAPSIONIC] You can affect two targets with a single ray. Prerequisite: Any other metapsionic feat. Benefit: To use this feat, you must expend your psionic focus. You can split psionic rays you manifest. The split ray affects any two targets that are both within the power’s range and within 30 feet of each other. If the ray deals damage, each target takes as much damage as a single target would take. Using this feat increases the power point cost of the power by 2.
hovnarr 09-10-07, 05:57 AM	Interestingly enough, the corresponding arcane feat has the EXACT same rules text EXCEPT that it expressly states that YES, you can hit the same target twice. That is why the recommendation is usually to allow same target for both rays IF you also use Complete Arcane and allow the arcane feat. If you only use SRD/XPH, you probably shouldn't allow it. Crystal Shard is the only one with breakable potential using SPR, but the CPsi errata takes the edge off it since DR will then count twice if you split it and damage will only be moderate. So I say, allow it if you use CPsi errata, otherwise don't because you can one-shot golems with it.
InkBlot 09-10-07, 09:32 AM	So it's OK to make psionics overpowered because spellcasters are overpowered? Split Ray (which was published months after the XPH) does not use the EXACT same rules text as Split Psionic Ray. Furthermore, Split Ray is more expensive than Split Psionic Ray. Maximize Spell uses a slot 3 levels higher. Split Ray uses a slot 2 levels higher. That's only one spell level of difference, enough to account for the fact that you have to roll to hit twice. Applying either feat will get you the same damage, on average. Maximize Power uses an extra 6 power points. Split Psionic Ray uses an extra 2 power points. Maximize has the same increase as it's magic counterpart, but Split is dramatically reduced in price. If you Maximize a power, you need to be over 12th level to see a benefit. If you Split a psionic ray, and allow each ray to hit the same creature, then you only need to be past 4th level to see the same increase in damage. Split Psionic Ray is just there for manifesters to get more versatility out of their ray powers, not to get more power out of them. Single-power versatility is what psionics does. Split Psionic Ray compares to powers that have augments for additional targets, such as concussion blast.
hovnarr 09-10-07, 11:46 AM	So it's OK to make psionics overpowered because spellcasters are overpowered? The issue is not if it's "OK" or not. The point was that if you accept a certain power level for arcane classes in your campaign, psionics shouldn't be nerfed to a lower power level. Split Ray (which was published months after the XPH) does not use the EXACT same rules text as Split Psionic Ray. I don't have CA infront of me, but last I checked it was the same feat verbatim, apart from the last sentence in the arcane version of the feat which specified that both targets could be the same creature. Furthermore, Split Ray is more expensive than Split Psionic Ray. All metamagic feats are one effective spell level more expensive than their metapsionic counterparts. Split Ray is no exception, and nor is Maximize Power which costs 4 extra pp, not 6. The reason is to compensate the psion player for augmentation. Take the exampel of fireball/energyball. Empowered fireball costs a 5th level slot, which is available at level 9, and it will do 1.5x9d6 damage. A 9 pp empowered energy ball will only do 1.5x7d6 damage.
Lycanthromancer 09-10-07, 11:49 AM	Not to mention compensation for the restrictions of metapsionic feats requiring focus, AND only being able to use (at maximum) 2 foci simultaneously, AND the feats required to use metapsionics a practical strategem. :)
InkBlot 09-10-07, 01:07 PM	Maximize Power which costs 4 extra pp, not 6. Sorry. I've been making mistakes like that all day. Therefore, I'm abstaining from this discussion until I find my brain. I had the books out in front of me when I compared Split Ray to Split Psionic Ray, but now I'm doubting my eyes.