Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Orenmir 02-15-08, 11:17 AM	I have a couple of questions about the power Strength of My Enemy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/strengthofMyEnemy.htm). Strength of My Enemy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/strengthofMyEnemy.htm) Level: Psychic warrior 2 Display: Visual; see text Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 1 round/level (D) Power Points: 3 You gain the ability to siphon away your enemy’s strength for your own use. One of your natural or manufactured weapons becomes the instrument of your desire, and deals 1 point of Strength damage on each successful hit. You gain that point of Strength as an enhancement bonus to your Strength score. Strength you siphon from different foes is tracked separately—the total siphoned from each individual foe is considered a separate enhancement bonus to your Strength (maximum +8), and you gain only the highest total. Augment You can augment this power in one or both of the following ways. 1. For every 3 additional power points you spend, the maximum enhancement bonus you can add to your Strength increases by 2. 2. If you spend 6 additional power points, you can manifest this power as a swift action 1. Do you add the point of Str damage to your normal damage, or does it replace your normal damage? 2. If you choose your unarmed attack as "the instrument of your desire" during a grapple, can you deliver the Str damage with grapple checks to inflict unarmed damage?
InkBlot 02-15-08, 12:55 PM	1. The Str damage is separate from your weapon's HP damage. You deal both HP damage and Str damage when you attack with strength of my enemy. 2. Yes. You can use grapple checks to deal damage "equivalent to an unarmed strike." It's just like if you had punched your enemy. So strength of my enemy does kick while grappling, if you use the power with your unarmed strike. 3. Yes. This is one of the best powers a Psychic Warrior has access to.
Akirakun 02-15-08, 01:04 PM	I don't know much about the psionic abilities, but that sounds bad ass
Orenmir 02-15-08, 01:14 PM	3. Yes. This is one of the best powers a Psychic Warrior has access to. I agree. It's especially useful when you have many attacks per round, such as with 2WF or a Chaos Monk's Flailing Strike. Even at low levels, a Chaos Monk/PsyWar can hit +8 Str in 2 rounds! Quite a combo I eagerly anticipate using.
Tempest Stormwind 02-15-08, 02:36 PM	I agree. It's especially useful when you have many attacks per round, such as with 2WF or a Chaos Monk's Flailing Strike. Even at low levels, a Chaos Monk/PsyWar can hit +8 Str in 2 rounds! Quite a combo I eagerly anticipate using. Or, better yet, natural weapon powers, since they're all made at your highest attack bonus. Strength of My Enemy forces you to choose a single natural weapon, so pick one that you get a lot of -- Form of Doom's tentacles come to mind. Under one interpretation, Hammer might enable those attacks to be touch attacks as well. Also, RadicalTaoist is notorious for combining Strength of My Enemy with Grip of Iron -- GoI gives you a strong initial grapple modifier, Strength of My Enemy weakens the enemy while improving your own grapple checks, and so on. This also combines wonderfully with Expansion and other such methods of getting a stackable +4 to your grapples.
InkBlot 02-15-08, 03:05 PM	And lets not forget that your enemy now has a -8 to strength! So now not only do you have an extra +4 to hit and damage, but your enemy also has a -4 to the same (if you focused all your attacks on one guy). Strength of my enemy could be really nice combined with Avalanche Of Blades (a 7th level Diamond Mind strike from ToB). Avalanche Of Blades lets you keep attacking, with a consecutive -4 penalty, until you miss. So with BAB 16 it goes +16/+12/+8/+4/+0/-4/-8/-12/-16/-20/-24/-26/-30/-34/-36/-40/-44/-48/-52 ... and so on unless you fail to hit. A Psychic Warrior 14/Warblade 6, Practiced Manifester, Overchannel can have ML 21, BAB 16, and IL 13. That's a high enough manifester level to get a potential +20 to strength from strength of my enemy. Now we just need a way to turn all those attacks into flat footed touch attacks, and grab a ring of continual true strike, so at least 20 of them will hit (the 20th attack would have a -80 penalty). edit: Hammer, a touch attack power, is neither a natural weapon nor a manufactured weapon. It would work if you held the charge, but then it wouldn't be a touch attack. Combat Rhythm, from the Stormguard Warrior tactical feat, might work though. Combat Rhythm on it's own is pretty nasty too. With your 20th attack, Combat Rhythm would give you a +100 bonus to all damage on your next turn.
CrimsonDeath 02-15-08, 05:44 PM	Or, better yet, natural weapon powers, since they're all made at your highest attack bonus. Strength of My Enemy forces you to choose a single natural weapon, so pick one that you get a lot of -- Form of Doom's tentacles come to mind. Is it a single type of natural weapon, or just one single natural weapon? If it's the latter, then you'd have to choose one tentacle; the others wouldn't help.
jbsaff 02-15-08, 06:27 PM	My reading of the srd... One of your natural or manufactured weapons becomes the instrument of your desire, and deals 1 point of Strength damage on each successful hit. ... says one manufactured weapon for sure. How are natural weapons handled generally?
Bauglir 02-16-08, 12:25 AM	I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this, but I'm just checking to be sure, since it just occurred to me. If you keep hitting an opponent after getting the maximum Str bonus, you keep doing the Str damage, right?
InkBlot 02-16-08, 01:05 AM	I don't see any reason to think it wouldn't. That's what it says, RAW. It also makes sense thematically. If you pour a big pitcher of water into a little cup, does the water automatically stop pouring out of the pitcher when the glass is full? As long as you keep tipping over the pitcher, water keeps pouring out, even if it just spills all over. It's like that. As long as you keep attacking, your enemy keeps losing strength, even if the psychic energy just spills out uselessly.
Bauglir 02-16-08, 11:29 AM	Excellent. That makes it a really freaking useful power, it does. I mean, more than before.
InkBlot 02-16-08, 11:39 AM	Also consider how this interacts with ranged weapons. Strength of my enemy has nothing that limits it to melee attacks. The ability to deal strength to anybody on the battlefield is nice, but does anybody know of a way for an archer to really benefit from the extra strength? Is there a magic composite bow that automatically adjusts to your strength?
Orenmir 02-16-08, 03:40 PM	Is there a magic composite bow that automatically adjusts to your strength? Yes -- Hank's Bow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20061227a). It's composite to any strength. Indeed, a very good combo!
CrimsonDeath 02-16-08, 06:47 PM	I think there's also a Relic bow that automatically adjusts to your Strength. I forget whether it's dedicated to Ehlonna or Corellon, though.
jbsaff 02-16-08, 10:56 PM	Corellon. Bow of the Wintermoon. Some pretty heavy requirements to use though.
The_Mess 02-17-08, 01:24 AM	Yes -- Hank's Bow (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20061227a). It's composite to any strength. Indeed, a very good combo! *sigh* I bought the entire box set of the cartoon series simply to get the book inside it, solely so that I could get the stats for that bow... which is apparently free online. YE GODS! Why must you mock me so!
Orenmir 02-17-08, 10:21 AM	*sigh* I bought the entire box set of the cartoon series simply to get the book inside it, solely so that I could get the stats for that bow... which is apparently free online. YE GODS! Why must you mock me so! The "Search" feature is your friend! And, in this case, a money-saver. ;)
The_Mess 02-17-08, 04:16 PM	Where were you when I needed you? : - )
Suspect_Unusual 02-19-08, 01:18 PM	Also consider how this interacts with ranged weapons. Strength of my enemy has nothing that limits it to melee attacks. The ability to deal strength to anybody on the battlefield is nice, but does anybody know of a way for an archer to really benefit from the extra strength? Is there a magic composite bow that automatically adjusts to your strength? I'm currently working on a character that uses that lovely ol' combination of Multishot, Fell Shot, and Psionic Meditation. He'll also be picking up Strength of My Enemy as his first 2nd level Psychic Warrior power. Manifest Strength of My Enemy. Standard action Multishot, make it a touch attack by expending psionic focus using Fell Shot (and deal strength damage equal to the number of arrows shot), then regain psionic focus as a move action. It may not be the strength-damage mill that the *snicker* ring of continual true-striking Avalanche of Blades meleer is, but it is very reliable on almost all targets, especially Dragons and their ilk.
Fatalis_902 02-19-08, 04:33 PM	I'm currently working on a character that uses that lovely ol' combination of Multishot, Fell Shot, and Psionic Meditation. He'll also be picking up Strength of My Enemy as his first 2nd level Psychic Warrior power. Manifest Strength of My Enemy. Standard action Multishot, make it a touch attack by expending psionic focus using Fell Shot (and deal strength damage equal to the number of arrows shot), then regain psionic focus as a move action. It may not be the strength-damage mill that the *snicker* ring of continual true-striking Avalanche of Blades meleer is, but it is very reliable on almost all targets, especially Dragons and their ilk. Keep in mind that Fell Shot only applies to the first arrow, not any others.
CrimsonDeath 02-19-08, 04:50 PM	Keep in mind that Fell Shot only applies to the first arrow, not any others. You've got that backwards. Fell Shot affects one ranged attack, and Manyshot applies a single attack roll to all the arrows fired with that standard action. However, I'm not sure how Multishot and Strength of My Enemy interact. I know that precision-based damage only applies once, but I'm not sure about secondary effects like ability damage due to a spell effect. (For that matter, it doesn't explicitly state that manifesting the power and choosing a projectile weapon as "the instrument of your desire" causes it to impart the effect on the projectiles it fires.)
Fatalis_902 02-19-08, 08:07 PM	You've got that backwards. Fell Shot affects one ranged attack, and Manyshot applies a single attack roll to all the arrows fired with that standard action. Really? I can almost see that, it just seems too powerful. Oh well, more power to my soulbow.:ayyyy!: However, I'm not sure how Multishot and Strength of My Enemy interact. I know that precision-based damage only applies once, but I'm not sure about secondary effects like ability damage due to a spell effect. (For that matter, it doesn't explicitly state that manifesting the power and choosing a projectile weapon as "the instrument of your desire" causes it to impart the effect on the projectiles it fires.) Based on the way it's written, it really seems like it was more meant for melee characters, based on the fact that they can benefit from it without jumping through hoops (or using a sling). I don't think they bothered to consider that someone may want to use it with a bow (or sling).
CrimsonDeath 02-19-08, 08:34 PM	Really? I can almost see that, it just seems too powerful. Oh well, more power to my soulbow.:ayyyy!: As a balancing factor, any precision damage (like Sneak Attack or Skirmish) also only applies once. Greater Manyshot allows you to apply precision damage to each arrow, but you also make a separate attack roll for each arrow, so Fell Shot would only apply to one of them. It's a tradeoff...
Fatalis_902 02-19-08, 09:45 PM	Now, see, that's the logic I had been operating on when I made my statement.
heavenisme 02-21-08, 10:14 AM	Magic compendium has a weapon enhancement that gives you whirling blade 3/day Combine that with strength of my enemy and I think your strength goes way up. The weapon enhancement cost is +1
Scion of Coldshard 02-21-08, 12:11 PM	Magic compendium has a weapon enhancement that gives you whirling blade 3/day Combine that with strength of my enemy and I think your strength goes way up. The weapon enhancement cost is +1 Each different opponent dealt str damage gives a difference enhancement bonus to str.. so hitting a dozen people once gives the same enhancement bonus as hitting one guy once.
Orenmir 02-21-08, 12:20 PM	Each different opponent dealt str damage gives a difference enhancement bonus to str.. so hitting a dozen people once gives the same enhancement bonus as hitting one guy once. At least their str would go down.
Scion of Coldshard 02-21-08, 12:23 PM	At least their str would go down. Certainly, but that is a different issue ;)
Tempest Stormwind 02-21-08, 12:56 PM	If you want to see something disturbing, consider Strength of My Enemy on certain Tome of Battle strikes, especially those that enable multiple attacks (Avalanche of Blades, Desert Tempest, and, I think, Tornado Throw may be the most impressive here).
hogarth 02-21-08, 01:17 PM	The concern I have with Strength of My Enemy is that it requires hitting an opponent eight times to get the +8 strength enhancement. Generally, if you're a melee fighter/archer who's taking eight hits to kill an opponent, you're probably not a very effective fighter. So let's say instead that you generally hit four times before your opponent dies. In that case, this power is giving you a +4 enhancement bonus to strength for 1 round/level (with some minor Str damage on the side) which seems pretty underwhelming to me. I guess you could do something silly like: Carry an unconscious creature around with you at all times. When it's time to buff, use Strength of My Enemy on your unarmed strike. After that, use Avalanche of Blows to punch the unconscious creature eight (or more) times. Then it's GO TIME!! ;)
Orenmir 02-21-08, 02:07 PM	The concern I have with Strength of My Enemy is that it requires hitting an opponent eight times to get the +8 strength enhancement. Generally, if you're a melee fighter/archer who's taking eight hits to kill an opponent, you're probably not a very effective fighter. So let's say instead that you generally hit four times before your opponent dies. In that case, this power is giving you a +4 enhancement bonus to strength for 1 round/level (with some minor Str damage on the side) which seems pretty underwhelming to me. True, it's best utilized if you have many attacks per round. I guess you could do something silly like: Carry an unconscious creature around with you at all times. When it's time to buff, use Strength of My Enemy on your unarmed strike. After that, use Avalanche of Blows to punch the unconscious creature eight (or more) times. Then it's GO TIME!! ;) Funny, I had a similar thought. Carry a diminutive sap that deals 1 HP of nonlethal -- use it on the party wizard! :P
Lycanthromancer 02-21-08, 02:17 PM	True, it's best utilized if you have many attacks per round. Funny, I had a similar thought. Carry a diminutive sap that deals 1 HP of nonlethal -- use it on the party wizard! :PUse it on his summons. Or a bag of fuzzies you carry with you. Or a bag of tricks.
Orenmir 02-21-08, 02:21 PM	Use it on his summons. Or a bag of fuzzies you carry with you. Or a bag of tricks. Whatever you use it on needs to have a good Str score: at least 8; 9 if you want the thing to still stand; more if you want to augment! At ML 18, you can siphon 18 points of Str!!!!
Scion of Coldshard 02-21-08, 02:23 PM	The duration is still very short for all of that effort.. Persisting it seems to be the way to go ;)
Lycanthromancer 02-21-08, 02:25 PM	I'm willing to bet that rhinocerouseses would have Str scores of AT LEAST 8.
InkBlot 02-21-08, 04:23 PM	If you want to see something disturbing, consider Strength of My Enemy on certain Tome of Battle strikes, especially those that enable multiple attacks (Avalanche of Blades, Desert Tempest, and, I think, Tornado Throw may be the most impressive here). Desert Tempest specifically bars you from hitting the same opponent twice. I never noticed that Tornado Throw lets you hit the same opponent multiple times. Thanks Tempest! This opens up a lot of new combos. For people who don't want to look it up: Tornado Throw is a 9th level strike which lets you double move and attempt to throw (trip) somebody for every 10 feet you move. So that's one attack for every 5 points of move speed. If you have Improved Trip, each successful trip attempt generates an extra attack. If you have a modest move speed of 60 (30 base plus Boots Of Speed), then you can make up to 24 attacks. Half of those will be touch attacks, made to initiate a trip attempts. The other half will be normal melee attacks. All of them will be at your highest base attack bonus. It's not hard to get your speed much higher. Base 30 + Boots Of Speed + Speed Of Thought + Xeph Burst + Freedom Mantle = 110 foot move speed. That's 44 attacks. Am I missing something that makes this impossible?
hogarth 02-21-08, 04:34 PM	I never noticed that Tornado Throw lets you hit the same opponent multiple times. <snip> Am I missing something that makes this impossible? I didn't think you could trip someone who's already prone. However, I haven't read the Tome of Battle so I could easily be missing something important. EDIT: Actually, I don't see anything in the SRD that says you can't trip someone who's prone. Maybe it does work.
InkBlot 02-21-08, 04:40 PM	:doh: I can't believe I missed that. You're absolutely correct. When you throw people with Tornado Throw, they land prone. Although it makes sense that you'd be able to pick somebody up and throw them even if they were prone, ToB throwing maneuvers don't work that way. They work work off of trip attempts. edit: The FAQ says you can't trip somebody who's prone (in the context of the AoO generated when a person stands up from prone).
Lycanthromancer 02-21-08, 06:41 PM	Tornado throw + Improved Trip + improved grab?
Tempest Stormwind 02-21-08, 06:42 PM	Desert Tempest specifically bars you from hitting the same opponent twice. I was going from memory. Thanks! I never noticed that Tornado Throw lets you hit the same opponent multiple times. Thanks Tempest! This opens up a lot of new combos. For people who don't want to look it up: Tornado Throw is a 9th level strike which lets you double move and attempt to throw (trip) somebody for every 10 feet you move. So that's one attack for every 5 points of move speed. If you have Improved Trip, each successful trip attempt generates an extra attack. If you have a modest move speed of 60 (30 base plus Boots Of Speed), then you can make up to 24 attacks. Half of those will be touch attacks, made to initiate a trip attempts. The other half will be normal melee attacks. All of them will be at your highest base attack bonus. It's not hard to get your speed much higher. Base 30 + Boots Of Speed + Speed Of Thought + Xeph Burst + Freedom Mantle = 110 foot move speed. That's 44 attacks. Am I missing something that makes this impossible? The same thing I was (landing prone). However, you can still end up with sickening results with Tornado Throw on its own. The worst I know of involves Chuck, the Ruby Knight Windicator, who extend-persists Footsteps of the Divine (Complete Cheeseball Champion -- it gives you a small speed boost, and lets you later expend the spell to give you an instantaneous boost of 10' per round remaining in the duration, which thanks to those feats is now 48 hours) to run faster than the speed of sound and basically throw someone into the sun. This is without any other speed response present, and it doesn't even calculate the damage of the attack (which is among CO world records, and notable in that it doesn't involve weapons or damage spells). Doesn't help too much with Strength of My Enemy, though. Sorry for the off-topic.
Fatalis_902 02-21-08, 07:54 PM	:heehee: There is much epic win there.
heavenisme 02-24-08, 12:29 AM	How about a tentacle rod?