Suck-Free Ectopics [Archive] - Wizards Community

Suck-Free Ectopics [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SlanderPanic
06-27-07, 10:16 PM These modifications assume that your campaign ignores the astral construct nerf from Complete Psionic. Overall, I feel they give a significant boost in versatility while making the Ectopic Adept class worth taking. I don't see any reason to change most of the flavor text, since this is an entirely mechanical overhaul. I also had to be careful not to directly copy anything from Complete Psionic. PEACH if you wish.

Ectopic Form [Psionic]
Prerequisites: know astral construct power, Boost Construct
Benefit: When you manifest astral construct, you may choose to give up your normal menu choices to instead create preconstructed constructs. These creatures still benefit from your Boost Construct feat. You have access to the Agile Loper, Alabaster Aerial, Amber Tunneler, Astral Aquan, Emerald Gyre, and Iridescent Serpent forms.

-----------------------------------

The Ectopic Adept

Hit Die: d4

Requirements:
To qualify to become an ectopic adept, a character must fulfill all of the following criteria:

Skill: Psicraft 8 ranks
Feats: Skill Focus (Craft [sculpting]), Boost Construct, Ectopic Form
Powers: Must be able to manifest the astral construct power.
Special: Must be trained by another ectopic adept.

Class Skills: The ectopic adept's class skills are Bluff, Concentration, Craft (sculpting), Disguise, Knowledge (all), Profession, Psicraft, and Use Psionic Device.

Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier

Class Features:
All of the following are class features of the ectopic adept:

Base Attack Bonus: Poor (as wizard).
Saving Throws: Good Will.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The ectopic adept gains no proficiency in any weapons, armor, or shields.

Powers Known:
Beginning at 2nd level, an ectopic adept gains additional power points per day and access to new powers as if she had also gained a level in whatever manifesting class she belonged to before she added the prestige class. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (bonus feats, metapsionic or item creation feats, psicrystal special abilities, and so on). This essentially means that she adds the level of ectopic adept to the level of whatever manifesting class the character has, then determines power points per day, powers known, and manifester level accordingly.

If a character had more than one manifesting class before she became an ectopic adept, she must decide to which class she adds the new level of ectopic adept for the purpose of determining power points per day, powers known, and manifester level.

Resilient Construct (Su): As written in Complete Psionic.

Ectopic Versatility: At 2nd level, and again at 4th, the ectopic adept masters advanced shaping techniques and gains access to a new construct form. She gains her choice of Anathemic Carapace or Ebony Stinger at 2nd level and then gains the other at 4th.

Rapid Creation (Ex): As written in Complete Psionic.

Double Creation (Su): At 5th level, you become able to better manipulate the complex strands of ectoplasm that comprise your astral constructs. Once per day, by expending your psionic focus, you may create two astral constructs with a single manifestation of the power. This ability may not be used in conjunction with Rapid Creation.
You lose access to this ability if you do not have a number of ranks in Craft (sculpting) equal to or greater than your manifester level.
Rageheart
06-28-07, 10:30 AM heheheheheh, Bwahaahahah... >cough< >cough<

Er... Sorry, this thread just reminded me of the Metamind: "Suck for free" quote for some reason. :rolleyes:
Honestly though I don't know that even lumping them all into 1 feat makes it worth while. :(
SlanderPanic
06-28-07, 10:42 AM This is actually going to be the first in a series of revised prestige classes, including a revamped Metamind.

I think having Ectopic Form condensed to a single feat works pretty nicely. Most shapers are going to have Boost Construct anyway, so Ectopic Form is a logical choice for a 5th-level bonus feat. I thought about making the various forms augments of astral construct, but they're weak enough already without having to reduce their levels to gain specialization.
Rageheart
06-28-07, 11:02 AM Is there going to be a Revised Classes supplement, or better yet Web Supplement, featuring Classes from CompPsi?

if so it might be worth introducing Psionification of classes like the Mindbender and Master of the Unseen Hand as well.
SlanderPanic
06-28-07, 11:10 AM Might be nice to see. As you know, Mind's Eye is doing expansions for the Complete Psionic base classes. That article's supposed to hit tomorrow.

I know I'd love to do Web Enhancements for Wizards. It'd be fun to adapt a few preexisting prestige classes to be psionics-compatible while, hopefully, keeping them from being Psionic X versions. It'd also be awesome to see the Mystic Musketeer and Delbo's Dial-A-Wand make it into something official, but I doubt that'll happen.
Rageheart
06-28-07, 11:24 AM It'd be fun to adapt a few preexisting prestige classes to be psionics-compatible while, hopefully, keeping them from being Psionic X versions.

heh, that's why I picked the examples I did... they already have a Psionic feel to them, and in the revision you can say:
"Due to the obvious psionic feel to this class, refer to the Mindbender class as described in the Complete Mage as Mindbender, Arcane."

It'd also be awesome to see the Mystic Musketeer and Delbo's Dial-A-Wand make it into something official, but I doubt that'll happen.
Mystic Musketeer==Marksman, never heard of a Dial-a-Wand though...
SlanderPanic
06-28-07, 11:38 AM Marksman and Musketeer are quite different, thank you. I wrote the Musketeer before I owned Untapped Potential, for one thing. As Tempest points out in the Musketeer's thread, however, the two are nicely compatible. I do wish he'd get around to writing up gun styles for the marksman class.

You can find links to the Mystic Musketeer and Delbo's Dial-A-Wand in my sig.
Greatbear
06-29-07, 12:33 AM I like it. Very nice.
axenome
06-29-07, 07:29 PM All the ectopic forms presented in Comp Psi are actually WEAKER than the basic Astral Construct. Do the math and compare the abilities granted to them with the Menu selections from Astral Construct. You can get a better construct in nearly all of them at all levels. The only one that is even moderately interesting is the Anathemic carapace, but it loses potency so quickly the only way to make it cost effective is to blow it up immediately- except then, Astral Construct becomes a fairly inefficient and full round action nuke spell. Oh yes, and the poison construct gets a menu B selection early- but is still underpowered at later levels in comparison.
Complete Psionics is a garbage book, pure and simple. A four year old could have done better, at least four year olds have some imagination and could give an explanation if you ask them something about an idea they made up.
TikiMan
06-29-07, 10:11 PM As has been pointed out, the biggest problem with the Ectopic Form feats is that the construct you get is just plain inferior to a regular construct, especially if you're a Constructor. The solution to this is simple; make Ectopic Construct a sort of semi-stacking Boost Construct feat. Each feat allows you to stick a specific extra ability onto a construct you make, but you can't use more then one ectopic feat at a time. The Ectopic feats will stack with Boost Construct, but not with eachother.

Oh, and a couple things to note about Anathemic Form; the damage is untyped, and does not allow for spell resistance and the like. That being said, I'd pick several of the other forms before it.

@ SlanderPanic: I've only had 4 hours of sleep, so forgive me if I come off a bit gruff, but I'm not enjoying your alterations to the PrC. First off, if you're using the normal version of Ectopic Form, forcing the character to get Boost Construct is a big waste as they don't stack. Also, I have no idea why Ectopic Versatility is actually less versatile then the bonus feat the PrC normally grants. I'd use the version in Complete Psionic. I'd suggest channging Resilient Construct to an Augment Summons bonus (+4 str, +2hp/HD, +2 fort saves) to make the manifester level loss not such a steep entry cost. And finally, I'd suggest doing something totally different with Double Construct. While I regularly ignore the 'only 1 construct at a time' thing, I do agree that the ability to pump out more minions faster is a bad thing. As written, your ability would still stack with Quicken, the 10th level Constructor ability, or the 5th level Shaper replacement ability (allowing you 2 constructs as a swift action). I personally would like the ability to be Master Construction; you may make a construct using up to 3 Ectopic Form feats at a time. This would make your multiple selections of Ectopic Form worth more then just a pittance of versatility (given that most of the forms grant things already allowed to constructs).

In retrospect, I think you made a lot of the changes to justify the bonus granted by Double Construct. Sadly, you're specializing the PrC to do something that will annoy the DM, so I have to recommend against it. Just my :twocents:.
SlanderPanic
06-29-07, 11:42 PM First off, if you're using the normal version of Ectopic Form, forcing the character to get Boost Construct is a big waste as they don't stack.

You missed the part where I made a new version of Ectopic Form. The revised Ectopic Adept assumes that you're using the revised feat.

The ectopic form constructs are underpowered, it's true, but giving them menu abilities on top of that would probably be overpowered. Allowing Boost Construct to stack (allowing the shaper a choice from any menu an astral construct of that level would normally have access to) probably wouldn't be overpowered. I may alter the feat to work that way when I return from my vacation. Honestly, I don't plan to think about D&D at all during the next 11 days.

Thanks for the critiques, guys! Keep 'em coming!
TikiMan
06-30-07, 11:29 PM You missed the part where I made a new version of Ectopic Form. The revised Ectopic Adept assumes that you're using the revised feat.
Um...I'm confused now. Even your version states that you give up all menu choices. Which means you don't get to use the bonus choice from Boost Construct. Right?

That's why my version just grants the construct the bonus ability granted by the feat. So an Emerald Gyre construct would be exactly like any other construct you created, but it would also have Improved Grab for free. It lets you stack a single extra ability (usually akin to a menu B selection) onto your constructs, nothing more.
SlanderPanic
07-27-07, 03:42 PM I altered Ectopic Form to retain the benefits of Boost Construct.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SlanderPanic 06-27-07, 10:16 PM	These modifications assume that your campaign ignores the astral construct nerf from Complete Psionic. Overall, I feel they give a significant boost in versatility while making the Ectopic Adept class worth taking. I don't see any reason to change most of the flavor text, since this is an entirely mechanical overhaul. I also had to be careful not to directly copy anything from Complete Psionic. PEACH if you wish. Ectopic Form [Psionic] Prerequisites: know astral construct power, Boost Construct Benefit: When you manifest astral construct, you may choose to give up your normal menu choices to instead create preconstructed constructs. These creatures still benefit from your Boost Construct feat. You have access to the Agile Loper, Alabaster Aerial, Amber Tunneler, Astral Aquan, Emerald Gyre, and Iridescent Serpent forms. ----------------------------------- The Ectopic Adept Hit Die: d4 Requirements: To qualify to become an ectopic adept, a character must fulfill all of the following criteria: Skill: Psicraft 8 ranks Feats: Skill Focus (Craft [sculpting]), Boost Construct, Ectopic Form Powers: Must be able to manifest the astral construct power. Special: Must be trained by another ectopic adept. Class Skills: The ectopic adept's class skills are Bluff, Concentration, Craft (sculpting), Disguise, Knowledge (all), Profession, Psicraft, and Use Psionic Device. Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier Class Features: All of the following are class features of the ectopic adept: Base Attack Bonus: Poor (as wizard). Saving Throws: Good Will. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: The ectopic adept gains no proficiency in any weapons, armor, or shields. Powers Known: Beginning at 2nd level, an ectopic adept gains additional power points per day and access to new powers as if she had also gained a level in whatever manifesting class she belonged to before she added the prestige class. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (bonus feats, metapsionic or item creation feats, psicrystal special abilities, and so on). This essentially means that she adds the level of ectopic adept to the level of whatever manifesting class the character has, then determines power points per day, powers known, and manifester level accordingly. If a character had more than one manifesting class before she became an ectopic adept, she must decide to which class she adds the new level of ectopic adept for the purpose of determining power points per day, powers known, and manifester level. Resilient Construct (Su): As written in Complete Psionic. Ectopic Versatility: At 2nd level, and again at 4th, the ectopic adept masters advanced shaping techniques and gains access to a new construct form. She gains her choice of Anathemic Carapace or Ebony Stinger at 2nd level and then gains the other at 4th. Rapid Creation (Ex): As written in Complete Psionic. Double Creation (Su): At 5th level, you become able to better manipulate the complex strands of ectoplasm that comprise your astral constructs. Once per day, by expending your psionic focus, you may create two astral constructs with a single manifestation of the power. This ability may not be used in conjunction with Rapid Creation. You lose access to this ability if you do not have a number of ranks in Craft (sculpting) equal to or greater than your manifester level.
Rageheart 06-28-07, 10:30 AM	heheheheheh, Bwahaahahah... >cough< >cough< Er... Sorry, this thread just reminded me of the Metamind: "Suck for free" quote for some reason. :rolleyes: Honestly though I don't know that even lumping them all into 1 feat makes it worth while. :(
SlanderPanic 06-28-07, 10:42 AM	This is actually going to be the first in a series of revised prestige classes, including a revamped Metamind. I think having Ectopic Form condensed to a single feat works pretty nicely. Most shapers are going to have Boost Construct anyway, so Ectopic Form is a logical choice for a 5th-level bonus feat. I thought about making the various forms augments of astral construct, but they're weak enough already without having to reduce their levels to gain specialization.
Rageheart 06-28-07, 11:02 AM	Is there going to be a Revised Classes supplement, or better yet Web Supplement, featuring Classes from CompPsi? if so it might be worth introducing Psionification of classes like the Mindbender and Master of the Unseen Hand as well.
SlanderPanic 06-28-07, 11:10 AM	Might be nice to see. As you know, Mind's Eye is doing expansions for the Complete Psionic base classes. That article's supposed to hit tomorrow. I know I'd love to do Web Enhancements for Wizards. It'd be fun to adapt a few preexisting prestige classes to be psionics-compatible while, hopefully, keeping them from being Psionic X versions. It'd also be awesome to see the Mystic Musketeer and Delbo's Dial-A-Wand make it into something official, but I doubt that'll happen.
Rageheart 06-28-07, 11:24 AM	It'd be fun to adapt a few preexisting prestige classes to be psionics-compatible while, hopefully, keeping them from being Psionic X versions. heh, that's why I picked the examples I did... they already have a Psionic feel to them, and in the revision you can say: "Due to the obvious psionic feel to this class, refer to the Mindbender class as described in the Complete Mage as Mindbender, Arcane." It'd also be awesome to see the Mystic Musketeer and Delbo's Dial-A-Wand make it into something official, but I doubt that'll happen. Mystic Musketeer==Marksman, never heard of a Dial-a-Wand though...
SlanderPanic 06-28-07, 11:38 AM	Marksman and Musketeer are quite different, thank you. I wrote the Musketeer before I owned Untapped Potential, for one thing. As Tempest points out in the Musketeer's thread, however, the two are nicely compatible. I do wish he'd get around to writing up gun styles for the marksman class. You can find links to the Mystic Musketeer and Delbo's Dial-A-Wand in my sig.
Greatbear 06-29-07, 12:33 AM	I like it. Very nice.
axenome 06-29-07, 07:29 PM	All the ectopic forms presented in Comp Psi are actually WEAKER than the basic Astral Construct. Do the math and compare the abilities granted to them with the Menu selections from Astral Construct. You can get a better construct in nearly all of them at all levels. The only one that is even moderately interesting is the Anathemic carapace, but it loses potency so quickly the only way to make it cost effective is to blow it up immediately- except then, Astral Construct becomes a fairly inefficient and full round action nuke spell. Oh yes, and the poison construct gets a menu B selection early- but is still underpowered at later levels in comparison. Complete Psionics is a garbage book, pure and simple. A four year old could have done better, at least four year olds have some imagination and could give an explanation if you ask them something about an idea they made up.
TikiMan 06-29-07, 10:11 PM	As has been pointed out, the biggest problem with the Ectopic Form feats is that the construct you get is just plain inferior to a regular construct, especially if you're a Constructor. The solution to this is simple; make Ectopic Construct a sort of semi-stacking Boost Construct feat. Each feat allows you to stick a specific extra ability onto a construct you make, but you can't use more then one ectopic feat at a time. The Ectopic feats will stack with Boost Construct, but not with eachother. Oh, and a couple things to note about Anathemic Form; the damage is untyped, and does not allow for spell resistance and the like. That being said, I'd pick several of the other forms before it. @ SlanderPanic: I've only had 4 hours of sleep, so forgive me if I come off a bit gruff, but I'm not enjoying your alterations to the PrC. First off, if you're using the normal version of Ectopic Form, forcing the character to get Boost Construct is a big waste as they don't stack. Also, I have no idea why Ectopic Versatility is actually less versatile then the bonus feat the PrC normally grants. I'd use the version in Complete Psionic. I'd suggest channging Resilient Construct to an Augment Summons bonus (+4 str, +2hp/HD, +2 fort saves) to make the manifester level loss not such a steep entry cost. And finally, I'd suggest doing something totally different with Double Construct. While I regularly ignore the 'only 1 construct at a time' thing, I do agree that the ability to pump out more minions faster is a bad thing. As written, your ability would still stack with Quicken, the 10th level Constructor ability, or the 5th level Shaper replacement ability (allowing you 2 constructs as a swift action). I personally would like the ability to be Master Construction; you may make a construct using up to 3 Ectopic Form feats at a time. This would make your multiple selections of Ectopic Form worth more then just a pittance of versatility (given that most of the forms grant things already allowed to constructs). In retrospect, I think you made a lot of the changes to justify the bonus granted by Double Construct. Sadly, you're specializing the PrC to do something that will annoy the DM, so I have to recommend against it. Just my :twocents:.
SlanderPanic 06-29-07, 11:42 PM	First off, if you're using the normal version of Ectopic Form, forcing the character to get Boost Construct is a big waste as they don't stack. You missed the part where I made a new version of Ectopic Form. The revised Ectopic Adept assumes that you're using the revised feat. The ectopic form constructs are underpowered, it's true, but giving them menu abilities on top of that would probably be overpowered. Allowing Boost Construct to stack (allowing the shaper a choice from any menu an astral construct of that level would normally have access to) probably wouldn't be overpowered. I may alter the feat to work that way when I return from my vacation. Honestly, I don't plan to think about D&D at all during the next 11 days. Thanks for the critiques, guys! Keep 'em coming!
TikiMan 06-30-07, 11:29 PM	You missed the part where I made a new version of Ectopic Form. The revised Ectopic Adept assumes that you're using the revised feat. Um...I'm confused now. Even your version states that you give up all menu choices. Which means you don't get to use the bonus choice from Boost Construct. Right? That's why my version just grants the construct the bonus ability granted by the feat. So an Emerald Gyre construct would be exactly like any other construct you created, but it would also have Improved Grab for free. It lets you stack a single extra ability (usually akin to a menu B selection) onto your constructs, nothing more.
SlanderPanic 07-27-07, 03:42 PM	I altered Ectopic Form to retain the benefits of Boost Construct.