Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Surgo 06-22-06, 06:41 PM	A long time ago, Chonjurer did one of these for spells. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=86768) This idea and the ratings herein are hardly original; I copied a lot from Chonjurer. On the other hand, all the ratings and text given herein are mine (YMMV). If you don't like the suggestions I give, give another. Ratings (cheesily copied from Chonjurer, because they're good and he explains things well): DM: DM needs to plan many adventures with this power explicitely in mind, coming up with defences against it and/or being aware of countermeasures and RPing constraints on the powers. Mech: the game mechanics on this power are grossly misunderstood, unclear or contradictory, and the power desription needs to be fixed. Broke: the power is "broken" and needs to be reworked from the ground up or turfed entirely, as the game mechanics are flawed. Nerf: the power is too good for a power of its level (or any level) and needs to be hit with the nerf stick. Conf: the power is really confusing and/or hard to use because of all the bookeeping involved. Non-core: the power has problems interacting with *many* non-core mechanics, and ends up looking broken because of them. 3.0: this power had problems in 3.0, we pointed them out to Bruce or other game designers, and they still didn't do anything about it. Nerfed: This power rececived a major, unwarranted (IMO of course), nerfing from 3.0, or it's just a bit too weak. :p: This power gets a raspberry award for being sucktacular. Fix: my proposed fix to the problem. So, here we go. ----------------------------------------------------- Affinity Field Rating: broke, mech The unanswered question of what happens when affinity fields overlap make this disgustingly broken in certain situations. Fix: No creature can take damage or benefits from multiple affinity fields for the same effect. An affinity field cannot broadcast effects taken from another affinity field. Astral Caravan, Astral Traveler Rating: conf With the number of things that can go wrong, it's amazing that anyone makes it out of these things alive. The fact that the astral plane is very dangerous for characters of that level doesn't exactly help things. And how do you sleep without breaking the chain of hands? Time may flow idfferently in the Astral, but you still rest for 8 hours to prepare spells. Astral Seed Rating: Mech (copy & paste?) The text of this power conflicts with the text of the Mind Switch power. Astral Seed states: "Conceivably, you could manifest mind switch to utilize a temporary body, but only an evil creature would smash his own temporarily empty storage crystal to permanently usurp a subject's organic body (unless the subject is itself irredeemably evil)." On the other hand, Mind Switch states: "If either body is killed while the power is in effect, the other participant also dies when the power ends. If one participant?s body becomes petrified, imprisoned by temporal stasis or imprisonment, or incapacitated in some other way, the other participant will be incapacitated in that way when the power ends." So which is it? Bend Reality Rating: nerfed Is there a good reason that this is level 8, as opposed to level 7 like its magical counterpart? Though it carries the same problems that Limited Wish does. Fix: Move from Psion/wilder 8 to Psion/wilder 7 Bestow Power Rating: broke, non-core Using a torc of power preservation and the Earth Power feat from Races of Stone (non-core), you can bestow 2 power points while only paying one. Brain Lock Rating: nerf Third level seems a bit early for save-or-die spells, which is what this essentially is against a single opponent. Fix: Change duration to Concentration (maximum one round/level) + 1 round. Burst Rating: nerfed, :p Now that talents are gone, this is a fairly useless and hopelessly weak first-level power. Catfall Rating: nerfed, :p Again with the talents. Feather fall does much better at the same level; here you have to pay a power point for every 10 feet to get the same effect! Cloud Mind Rating: :p Invisibility, but with a saving throw for everyone in the area. Great :/. The immunity from tremorsense et. al. is hardly a consolation. Concealing Amorpha Rating: mech It would be nice if they told us how it interacted with blindsight/sense, tremorsense, and that family of things and not left it for our imaginations. Control Body Rating: mech, nerf * What "humanoid physiology" is, is ill-defined. Is it something of the humanoid type, or what? (mech) * A psion can, using solicit psicrystal or something similar that allows easier concentration, manifest this on themselves and suddenly gain a massive attack, damage, and AC bonus. All for a 4th-level power! This is especially deadly on psionic gish. How did no one notice this? (nerf) Crisis of Life Rating: :p This is a terrible save-or-die power, especially at 7th level. You have to put more pp in to increase the hit dice you can kill, but it won't even increase the save DC? Fix: For every two additional hit dice this power can kill, the save DC increases by 1. Crystal Shard Rating: mech I can't be the only one who remembers the endless debates. Can we get some official clarification on the antimagic/psionic field issue already? Was semi-fixed in Complete Psionic, but this is _not_ true errata and is slimy at best. Detect Psionics Rating: nerfed This should really be a talent, but they don't exist anymore. Dispel Psionics Rating: mech The highest augmented form of this power gives you a bonus of +20 at manifester level 10 due to a missing "maximum" in the description. Fix: The line should read "[f]or every additional power point you spend, the maximum bonus on your dispel check increases by 2 (to a maximum bonus of +20 for a 5-point expenditure)." Dispelling Buffer Rating: mech The brief description states that you are buffered from one dispel psionics effect, but the long description doesn't mention the power expiring after a dispel psionics is manifested against you. It probably isn't supposed to expire and they forgot to remove the line from an earlier draft. Fix: The brief description should read "You are buffered from the effects of dispel psionics." Ego Whip Rating: nerf Ability damage should never be save for half. Fix: Change to "Will negates". Empathic Transfer, Hostile Rating: conf, mech, nerf (spread version) Depending on how it's read, the 20-foot radius spread version of this can be massively powerful in the damage dealing capacity, healing capacity, or both. Nonambiguous wording is desparately needed there. Note that this was somewhat fixed in Complete Psionic, but this is _not_ true errata and the practice is slimy at best. Energy Missile Rating: major mech, nerf (semi-done) This power can still arguably hit five objects that a creature is carrying, destroying all of them. In addition, the save DC still climbs at +1/PP. Wasn't this supposed to be errata'd? Note that the save DC was changed in Complete Psionic, but this is _not_ true errata and the practice is slimy at best. Fix: No targetting multiple objects on the same creature, and the save DC climbs at +1/2PP like the other energy powers. Energy Stun Rating: mech It's a bit odd that a creature immune to the damage type can still be stunned if it fails the two saving throws, even though it doesn't end up taking any damage. Also, some would say that the save DC going up by +1/PP is too powerful, but this is hardly a save-or-die power and takes a massive amount of power points to keep anything stunned for long. This was changed in Complete Psionic, but this is _not_ true errata and the practice is slimy at best. Energy Wall Rating: :p With no way to increase the damage, I don't know of anyone who has ever taken this power unless they later reformed it away. Fix: Make it scale a little better. Ethereal Jaunt, Psionic (and friends) Rating: nerfed While being able to become ethereal for a brief time is situationally useful in battles, it's not useful enough to warrant such a nerf as an increase in two power levels. And why isn't this on the psychic warrior list anymore? As far as Etherealness goes, it's pretty silly to even have anymore when you can Plane Shift to the ethereal plane far before you ever get it. A completely useless power when Ethereal Jaunt already exists. Fix: Move the power levels back to 5 and 7, respectively, and put Ethereal Jaunt back on the psychic warrior power list. Exhalation of the Black Dragon Rating: :p Acid isn't any better than the other energy types so there's no reason it should scale to be completely useless, especially when its higher-level brethren scales correctly (+1PP/+1d6). Expansion Rating: mech I'll quote Chonjurer hear, as Enlarge Person has exactly the same problem: This spell gives you a +2 modifier to Str when cast and increases your size category (~increasing your carrying capacity by 2.6X), but it causes the equipment you are wearing to weigh 8 times what it did originally. In most cases, even the most burly fighter won't be capable of carrying his newly modified armor, let alone anything else. Fix: Weight increases by a factor of 2. (the reason they did 8 was probably because of a X2 in 3 different directions, which doesn't really make any sense anyways, as you aren't doubling your dimensions in all directions) Fabricate, Psionic (and greater) Rating: broke, dm, 3.0! This...ugh. Exactly the same problem as its magical brethren: Using this spell, any wizard with one or two ranks in most craft skills could put any blacksmith or tradesman out of business in one day. At at a rate of 1 cubic foot per round, he can crank out swords, armor and all sorts of other materials like the dickens. Furthermore, this is the only way to do things like Adamantine Fullplate, as the casting time is in rounds per cubic foot, not days per 5 sp. (he can do it in about 30 seconds instead of 1.5 years) And in a couple of minutes you can craft as many Impossible locks as would take a locksmith a couple years to accomplish. This spell is all sorts of broken and breaks all PC treasure caps, hands down. You cannot play with this spell as written and keep a consistent world. Fiery Discorporation Rating: conf First of all, effects that "reduce you to 0 hit points or lower" are quite vague. Technically, any killing effect, including death effects, can accomplish this because a dead character has -10 hit points, so the effect reduces you to below zero. I'm not sure if this was the intent of the power or not, but I have some doubts. Secondly, the reapparance step is odd. What if no flame exists, which could happen if you died on the elemental plane of water or the paraelemental plane of ice; then where do you appear? Grip of Iron Rating: nerf A +4 bonus for one power point as an immediate action is a bit much. Fix: Make this a second-level power. It then retains its usefulness for grappling builds and is properly outdone by Freedom of Movement for non-grappling builds in four levels. Hustle Rating: mech Whether or not you can manifest this and regain psionic focus with psionic meditation while in the middle of taking a full attack has been debated over and over. Official clarification would be nice. Incarnate Rating: nerfed A Dispel Psionics will dispel anything made permanent on you, and rather easily considering how the caster level of the permanent effect does not scale. Fix: Permanent incarnations can't be dispelled, only supressed. Doesn't the Permanency spell do something like this already? Inertial Barrier Rating: nerfed There's no reason that biofeedback should be able to eventually outstrip this and render it useless. Fix: Inertial Barrier augments like Biofeedback. Knock, Psionic Rating: nerf This power, and its spell counterpart, renders an entire skill (Open Lock) entirely obsolete and also gives the psion what was supposed to be the rogue's abilities. Fix: Increase it to level 3 or 4. Or just remove it from the game entirely. Special notice should be given to the Eberron campaign setting, which has (somewhat) managed to integrate this in the world. It still isn't good, though. Metaconcert Rating: comf, mech Is the entity a physical, tangible being or is it purely mental? If it exists and can move, how far can it move? How fast can it move? These questions are all unanswered. In addition, this power is just too long and contains too much to keep track of. My usual rule is that if it's more than two paragraphs, it's probably too complex. Metaconcert takes the cake at 7 paragraphs. Metamorphosis Rating: broke, conf, non-core, 3.0 This has every single problem inherent in polymorph, with the addition that there's no size limitation! And every new supplement introduces new juicy monsters to transform into. Players all over marvel at the return of Polymorph Self. I'm not even going to pretend to offer a fix here. Metamorphosis, Greater Rating: broke, conf, non-core, 3.0!!! Metamorphosis problems and then some. Most problems should be obvious here. This starts to get gamebreaking pretty fast (though 250 xp per casting is FAR better than the magic Shapechange), and every new supplement makes some new monster with low hit dice and ridiculous (Su) abilities. One would think that they learned better after the outcry over Shapechange. Most of the problems were discussed in 3.0 and then ignored. Great move. Microcosm Rating: :p A ninth-level death effect that happens to be [Mind-affecting]. Has anyone ever actually taken this? Same goes for 3.5 Power Word Kill. This one, at least, still has the multiple-creature-killing option. Mind Blank, Personal and Psionic Rating: nerf These powers eliminate the entire Telepathy disciple and Enchantment school, along with some of Illusion and various other things. Extremely strong, and even True Seeing (which also eliminates all of Illusion) doesn't have the 24-hour duration. This is more an inherent problem with the way D&D handles resistances and immunities than it is with these and likewise powers, which are just along for the ride. Mindwipe Rating: minor mech It's a bit strange that a [Mind-Affecting] power like this has a fortitude rather than a will save. My Light Rating: :p This power is even worse than the level-0 spell Light, and yet it's level 1. Add this to the list of arguments for bringing back talents. Psychic Crush Rating: :p Yet another Mind-Affecting save-or-die, only this one is especially bad because it gives the person on the receiving end a +4 bonus on their saving throw. Why do they do this? It's not like Slay Living (Cleric 5) gets the same restriction. Fix: Subject makes a will save as normal, with no bonus. If they save they don't take any damage. Remove the augmentation. Recall Death Rating: :p How many useless high-level [Mind-Affecting] save-or-dies are they going to waste paper on? Fix: Get rid of the [Mind-Affecting] tag. Remote Viewing Rating: nerfed The lack of an ability to scale the DC results in this power being far, far weaker than its magical counterpart. Fix: For every two additional power points you spend, this power's DC increases by one. Schism Rating: mech It was never clarified whether the second mind can activate their own swift or immediate actions. I'd say "no" for balance reasons. Fix: The second mind cannot make use of swift or immediate actions; you're still limited to one per round. Second Chance Rating: minor mech Another error involving cruft from an earlier draft of the power. This power is no longer 'discharged' by a single event, so there's no reason it should read ``or until discharged'' in the duration. Shatter Mind Blank Rating: :p There is nothing that this power does that cannot be done better by Dispel Psionics. It works the exact same way, but only against a single spell or power! It even allows a save! Fix: * Get rid of the power, or * Creatures with immunity to mind-affecting effects lose this immunity for a certain period of time if they fail their will save. This would be acceptable because it removes a major problem from high-level telepaths and makes powers like Recall Death and Microcosm viable at their level. Swarm of Crystals Rating: mech Same problem as Crystal Shard. Teleport, Psionic (& Greater) Rating: DM I'll quote Chonjurer, who is generally correct here. These spells, when they become available, vastly alter the landscape of your campaign world. The teleporting goon squad method of dealing with enemies become a real issue, and rampant theft/assasination becomes a real problem. The Stronghold Builder's Guide has some suggestions, as well as non-core supplements that have spells that foil Teleporting. The problem is that anybody not constrained to live in a fortress is suceptible to these thing, and fortresses are very suceptible to seige/destruction in the D&D world due to the presence of magic. Fix: Add some counters to the core rules that prevent Teleporting into an area (besides Forbiddance), or make teleportation more dangerous. Back in 2e, teleporting somewhere was dangerous business as there was a non-trivial chance that you would outright die, no save, when trying to teleport somewhere (you would end up entombed in the ground). That really prevented teleportation abuse, let me tell you. Personally, I say that you cannot Teleport somewhere unless you have been there, and you cannot DDoor somewhere unless you have line of sight. That has elminated 95% of my issues with the spells. Note from Surgo: The addition of powers like Divert Teleport and Trace Teleport alleviate the problem somewhat, but nowhere near completely. I recommend against allowing teleportation to anywhere that the manifester hasn't been before. That clears up most issues I have with the power as well. Thicken Skin Rating: mech The rules text of this power contrasts markedly with the flavor text, and there have been endless arguments as to whether this power provides an enhancement bonus to natural armor (akin to Barkskin), or an enhancement bonus to AC (essentially untyped). By the RAW it's the latter, but official clarification in the FAQ is desparately needed. Tornado Blast Rating: minor mech What's with the 24d6 cap here? None of the other damage-dealing powers have it, and it's pretty silly to put on a 9th-level power. True Seeing Rating: nerf This power completely protects against any sort of illusion, rendering the entire school of magic useless. Not as bad as Mind Blank due to the shorter duration, but still bad. Fix: Make opposed caster level checks to see through illusions, receiving a +4 bonus to your check. A successful check negates the illusion (for you), a failed check does not. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Of course, not all is bad. Let's thank Bruce for bringing horrific powers from 3.0 back into the realm of game balance. These powers include: Animal Affinity Biofeedback (and the rest of the chain) Psychofeedback (and Improved) And that's all.
Tempest Stormwind 06-22-06, 07:03 PM	Excellent! I've been batting around the idea of making one of these for the New DM/Player's Guide for a while. You've left off probably the most confusing power of the all: Metaconcert. No matter how I look at this power, or its 3.0 incarnation, pre and post errata, I can't figure it out, and I'd like to think I'm reasonably intelligent. (This is why I left it off of the power FAQ.)
Surgo 06-22-06, 07:12 PM	Updated. I was originally going to give it a :p rating, but after reading the power I thought it was decent enough if you have a lot of psionic people available due to the DC scaling, which can get very good very quickly. It is confusing and has a host of other mechanical problems, though.
Scion of Coldshard 06-22-06, 10:54 PM	Just thought I'd pop on and make a few comments ;) Although I do agree with most of them. Brain Lock Rating: nerf Third level seems a bit early for save-or-die spells, which is what this essentially is against a single opponent. Fix: Change duration to Concentration (maximum one round/level) + 1 round. This seems a lot like a power that should grant the target a new save each round it is under the effect and not require concentration. It would become a whole lot like hold person at that point but it still seems more reasonable to me. (I am glad that they changed hold person as well for that matter, although it is still basically a save or die which makes me feel that the psionic version is much better on the balanced scale.. with the suggested change) Cloud Mind Rating: :p Invisibility, but with a saving throw for everyone in the area. Great :/. The immunity from tremorsense et. al. is hardly a consolation. Very poor power overall. Lack of scaling and it only hits one target at its early version ;/ gah. I am mainly making this comment to say that it only hits one creature and it is mind effecting and it grants a save. Who comes up with this stuff? Energy Missile Rating: major mech, nerf (semi-done) This power can still arguably hit five objects that a creature is carrying, destroying all of them. In addition, the save DC still climbs at +1/PP. Wasn't this supposed to be errata'd? Note that the save DC was changed in Complete Psionic, but this is _not_ true errata and the practice is slimy at best. Fix: No targetting multiple objects on the same creature, and the save DC climbs at +1/2PP like the other energy powers. While I definately agree that it needs to have a limiter on what it can target (I limit in my games to not be able to hit attended objects and no more than one creature/object per 5' square) I do not agree with the save dc limiter. I've been over the numbers so many times before and a pile of examples but I think what it comes down to in a lot of ways is simply: If you are ok with magic missile as a first level spell then you have no room to complain about energy missile. Energy Stun Rating: mech It's a bit odd that a creature immune to the damage type can still be stunned if it fails the two saving throws, even though it doesn't end up taking any damage. Also, some would say that the save DC going up by +1/PP is too powerful, but this is hardly a save-or-die power and takes a massive amount of power points to keep anything stunned for long. This was changed in Complete Psionic, but this is _not_ true errata and the practice is slimy at best. I have always played that this power does nothing to a creature immune to, or resistant enough to negate, the energy type that it is dealing. Perhaps that is incorrect, but it is always the way I have read it. I dont really have much of a problem with the scaling dc for this guy either though. Typically it hits a single creature and even if the dc is effectively infinite they still have a nearly 10% chance to not be stunned (and for me that is assuming that they do not resist the damage). Expansion Rating: mech I'll quote Chonjurer hear, as Enlarge Person has exactly the same problem: Similarly enlarged does not necissarily mean x8 on weight. When going from medium armor to heavy armor under normal creation (a single size category difference) the weight of the armor is doubled. I think that when they say, 'similarly enlarged' they mean the size category and not the x8 modifier on the persons weight. Fiery Discorporation Rating: conf Secondly, the reapparance step is odd. What if no flame exists, which could happen if you died on the elemental plane of water or the paraelemental plane of ice; then where do you appear? That entire section is more than a bit odd. If you mean when it first is triggered then nothing happens, the power fails to do anything. If you mean afterwards then I'd imagine 'somewhere' on the plane there could be someone with some fire somehow. Planes are pretty big after all. Assuming that somehow there really was no fire on the entire plane you went away on then I'd say it was dm's call. I personally would go to my cosmology, pick out the next closest plane and see if there was any fire there. If not then the next and so on until I hit a plane with some fire (as there is an elemental plane of fire and there is always some fire on the prime one will be hit eventually). Of course, not all is bad. Let's thank Bruce for bringing horrific powers from 3.0 back into the realm of game balance. These powers include: Animal Affinity Biofeedback (and the rest of the chain) Claws of the Vampire Psychofeedback (and Improved) I rather liked animal affinity, it had a use before whereas now is basically doesnt. Although I still prefer the old 2nd edition version. Too bad they didnt update that! Sortof a balanced version of stat boosting + alter self. Now that would've been great! The new claws of the vampire pretty well sucks as well :( Short duration, minor effect. The old one might've had some issues but the new one is a waste of space.
(Psi)SeveredHead 06-22-06, 11:36 PM	Energy Missile Rating: major mech, nerf (semi-done) This power can still arguably hit five objects that a creature is carrying, destroying all of them. In addition, the save DC still climbs at +1/PP. Wasn't this supposed to be errata'd? Note that the save DC was changed in Complete Psionic, but this is _not_ true errata and the practice is slimy at best. I think you could also discuss the ability to target multiple opponents. That's getting into Chain Lightning territory.
Gnome_Dragon_Disciple 06-23-06, 12:35 AM	I'm surprised that the "fixed" version of Astral Construct didn't make it on the list. Astral Construct (post-CPsi "fix") Rating: Nerfed, :P Astral Construct as written in the XPH was perfectly fine. Sure, it was a signature power for pretty much ANY psion of the Metacreativity discipline, but it seems as though that's what it was MADE to be. Was it abused? Sure, but a character had to be made for the explicit purpose of abusing it, and even at its worst (Psion (Shaper)10/Mind's Eye Constructor 10, Temporal Acceleration, Psicrystal Containment, Torc of Power Preservation=a significant number of level 9 Astral Constructs in (technically) less than a round) it was never as bad as Greenbound Summoning Druids. No, what made Astral Constructs rife for abuse is Grappling. After level 5, there pretty much isn't anything that can't be grappled by Astral Constructs, especially when you start putting out multiple constructs and having them use the Aid Another action to grapple. I admit some kind of fix was needed, but the fix wasn't needed for the Astral Construct power. As printed now, there's basically no reason to take the power, and unless you want to someday cast Genesis pre-epic, there's basically no reason to take the Metacreativity discipline at all.
Surgo 06-23-06, 03:51 AM	Scion of Coldshard: I see Animal Affinity as much more balanced in 3.5 not so much because of the elimination of the variable effect but because it was made into enhancement bonus instead of an untyped bonus. Thus it's brought in-line with its 2nd-level magical cousins and isn't the god it used to be. I'm fine with Claws of the Vampire the way it is now because of the numerous ways to increase your base claw damage. Thus it costs a bit more to get decent, reliable healing (dice increases), as opposed to the numerous cheap damage increases that put flat numbers after the damage dice. It's a bit weak now, but it's not useless if you invest a little money (fanged ring), power (expansion), and maybe a feat (Improved Natural Attack) into it. It's specialist, yes, but by default (for core, at least) all powers are specialist because you get so few of them. (Psi)SeveredHead: I don't really have a problem with the ability to hit multiple targets entirely because Energy Missile is a kineticist-only power. All of the non-kineticist energy powers are then strictly worse at hitting multiple targets until Energy Wave, which is a 7th-level power anyway. Thus I think it fills its role nicely. Gnome_Dragon_Disciple: While I agree (except for the raspberry award -- it's not that bad yet), I was sticking to core-only in the list. I do not own and refuse to buy the Complete Psionic due to its errata practice.
Gnome_Dragon_Disciple 06-23-06, 04:03 AM	Ehh I suppose it's probably still tenable as sort of a souped-up and visible Invisible Servant, but in a game system which does nothing to nerf Druid summoning abuse it just seems kind of... wrong to nerf the Astral Construct. Not just wrong as in incorrect, but wrong like PeeWee Herman sleeping with pandas in a synagogue. Oh well...
Rhomphaia 06-23-06, 04:30 AM	I am mildly surprised that Call to Mind didn't make the list. A psion would be very breakable at low levels with this power and the smart application of 11 skill points.
BloodSpill 06-23-06, 08:37 AM	Hahaha! What a silly thread. Instead of demanding errata that will never come, or forcibly instituting a "low magic/psionic" rule, I think some of us will be just playing and having fun. Teleport is meant to be awesome. (Why nerf it unless you're going Epic?) True Seeing is meant to be awesome. (Why nerf it unless you're going Epic?) There is no reason a simple lock should stand in front of a powerful Psion/Wizard. (Knock) (Why nerf it unless you're going Epic?) You don't usually see powerful Psions/Wizards being manipulated from behind the scenes (Mind Blank) (Why nerf it unless you're going Epic?) Fabricate is in the game because most players are involved in a plot, not playing sandbox D&D. (If people are abusing this isn't not a problem with the power, it's a problem with the game - the players don't have enough to do. If, however, they DO use it, it should be because they have better things to do than wait for the better part of a year waiting on some masterwork fullplate of some esoteric material.) Edit: After some thought I think I can sum my point up as this; Playing levels 9-15 is not the same as playing levels 1-3 just with different amounts of damage and HP. This should be understood, not having people run around nerfing things. I mean if you don't want someone to be able to use Mind Blank at 15th level, then WHAT level is appropriate? 3/4 of the game should be over by then anyway!
Scion of Coldshard 06-23-06, 02:32 PM	Gah! I put up a response and it died :( I'll have to be brief this time. Re Animal affinity: I dont mind the change in type so much as the major nerf to duration and the new static bonus. With its low duration it has the same issue as the spells of the similar ability, which suck. Give it a decent duration (an hour per level with a max of 24 hours seems perfect to me) and it is useful again. Re Claws of the Vampire: If you put enough resources into specializing and have time to put up the short term buff and can find a foe it works against (small or larger, living, without regeneration, without biofeedback, and has enough hp remaining) then it can be nice (average 14 hp healed on a hit if you get it up to 8d6 base damage). But with what you are giving up to get there I would expect it to be either 1) better for its cost or 2) longer in duration. Give it a nice duration and I think it'd be a find power, but at 1 round/ level? gah ;/
(Psi)SeveredHead 06-23-06, 03:29 PM	Re Claws of the Vampire: If you put enough resources into specializing and have time to put up the short term buff and can find a foe it works against (small or larger, living, without regeneration, without biofeedback, and has enough hp remaining) then it can be nice (average 14 hp healed on a hit if you get it up to 8d6 base damage). But with what you are giving up to get there I would expect it to be either 1) better for its cost or 2) longer in duration. Give it a nice duration and I think it'd be a find power, but at 1 round/ level? gah ;/ I'd rather go for more damage than longer duration. If you're somehow draining 8d6 damage per round, that's 2d8 damage healed over 20 rounds. Quite a lot, but at least you have a fairly clear maximum, and you probably won't be draining 20 rounds in a row as combats usually last about a quarter of that. (In fact, you could get multiple attacks and Extend Power it, too, so the math gets a bit fuzzier. Still, now you can ballpark it.) If it's lower damage over a long duration, the amount of damage that could be drained can't be controlled. Now we have psychic warriors abusing the power again, instead of using the power in combat. The designer of the power doesn't know if the heroes are going to have one or five encounters during the duration of the power (the latter could happen if the power lasts 1 hour per level). I don't really have a problem with the ability to hit multiple targets entirely because Energy Missile is a kineticist-only power. All of the non-kineticist energy powers are then strictly worse at hitting multiple targets until Energy Wave, which is a 7th-level power anyway. Thus I think it fills its role nicely. So you will not even address the question? Do you think making a power Kineticist only is worth 4 or 5 levels?
Scion of Coldshard 06-23-06, 03:48 PM	I'd rather go for more damage than longer duration. If you're somehow draining 8d6 damage per round, that's 2d8 damage healed over 20 rounds. Quite a lot, but at least you have a fairly clear maximum, and you probably won't be draining 20 rounds in a row as combats usually last about a quarter of that. (In fact, you could get multiple attacks and Extend Power it, too, so the math gets a bit fuzzier. Still, now you can ballpark it.) If it's lower damage over a long duration, the amount of damage that could be drained can't be controlled. Now we have psychic warriors abusing the power again, instead of using the power in combat. The designer of the power doesn't know if the heroes are going to have one or five encounters during the duration of the power (the latter could happen if the power lasts 1 hour per level). I am not really sure what you are trying to say here so I'll just see if you could say it in a different way. So you will not even address the question? Do you think making a power Kineticist only is worth 4 or 5 levels? Why is chain lightning even an issue here? Chain lightning can hit a lot more targets (limited only by caster level, 12 targets possible when it is first useable) over a much larger area (effectively a 60' radius vs 7.5' radius) and has 4 times the initial range (long vs medium) but it suffers from being an arcane direct damage dealing spell (typically poor choices at higher level) placed way over the level it likely should have been (much like how cone of cold is about 2 levels too high).
(Psi)SeveredHead 06-23-06, 03:54 PM	I am not really sure what you are trying to say here so I'll just see if you could say it in a different way. A shorter duration is easier to analyze for balance.
Scion of Coldshard 06-23-06, 03:57 PM	A shorter duration is easier to analyze for balance. My analysis says that with its short duration it sucks ;) And I'd think that if it healed too much in a hit that it would be too powerful. I guess that leaves us with either deleting the power entirely or giving it some other benefits.
kab 06-24-06, 09:57 PM	Astral Seed Rating: Mech The text of this power conflicts with the text of the Mind Switch power. Astral Seed states: "Conceivably, you could manifest mind switch to utilize a temporary body, but only an evil creature would smash his own temporarily empty storage crystal to permanently usurp a subject's organic body (unless the subject is itself irredeemably evil)." On the other hand, Mind Switch states: "If either body is killed while the power is in effect, the other participant also dies when the power ends. If one participant?s body becomes petrified, imprisoned by temporal stasis or imprisonment, or incapacitated in some other way, the other participant will be incapacitated in that way when the power ends." So which is it? i believe they're referring to True Mind Switch here
DarknessEternal 06-25-06, 06:50 AM	You have failed to include Synchronicity on your list. You are using material from Complete Psionics, so this should definately be on there.
CrossUMT 06-25-06, 12:52 PM	Metaconcert exists, as far as I know, simply to provide a party of psions with an excuse to say "by your powers combined, I am Captain Planet!"
Zarreth_Nessad 06-25-06, 05:26 PM	Metaconcert exists, as far as I know, simply to provide a party of psions with an excuse to say "by your powers combined, I am Captain Planet!" Well put.. I had been wondering about that, especially since it would be most useful when used by Psions of differing disciplines...
Milo HoBo 06-26-06, 04:49 AM	You have failed to include Synchronicity on your list. You are using material from Complete Psionics, so this should definately be on there. I thought it was fixed in an erreta or something. No more twinned synchronicity for extra actions. Or am I thinking of the wrong power?
ManTimeForgot 06-26-06, 05:07 AM	Hahaha! What a silly thread. Instead of demanding errata that will never come, or forcibly instituting a "low magic/psionic" rule, I think some of us will be just playing and having fun. Teleport is meant to be awesome. (Why nerf it unless you're going Epic?) True Seeing is meant to be awesome. (Why nerf it unless you're going Epic?) There is no reason a simple lock should stand in front of a powerful Psion/Wizard. (Knock) (Why nerf it unless you're going Epic?) You don't usually see powerful Psions/Wizards being manipulated from behind the scenes (Mind Blank) (Why nerf it unless you're going Epic?) Fabricate is in the game because most players are involved in a plot, not playing sandbox D&D. (If people are abusing this isn't not a problem with the power, it's a problem with the game - the players don't have enough to do. If, however, they DO use it, it should be because they have better things to do than wait for the better part of a year waiting on some masterwork fullplate of some esoteric material.) Edit: After some thought I think I can sum my point up as this; Playing levels 9-15 is not the same as playing levels 1-3 just with different amounts of damage and HP. This should be understood, not having people run around nerfing things. I mean if you don't want someone to be able to use Mind Blank at 15th level, then WHAT level is appropriate? 3/4 of the game should be over by then anyway! The logic I see here is questionable at best. Its ok if something is ridiculously powerful because it is doing what it was meant to be doing. Its ok if a power is ridiculously powerful out of combat becuase PC's should only ever be interested in combat and always adventuring in some way at all times. Sure the dynamics change between low levels to mid levels and mid levels to high levels, but this is not an excuse for broken mechanics. For starters some people enjoy the roleplaying aspect of the game more than the adventure aspect and saying that their views are fundamentally unimportant/don't matter at all belays either a selfish egotism or an overbearing elitist mentality. Additionally what does epic have to do with the relative power level of the game? Why should some powers be leaps and bounds more powerful than other powers of the SAME SPELL LEVEL?! Some powers need to be changed, and while the prospect of errata is probably not forthcoming the assertions still need to be made. Those who make the game need to be made aware of the changes that should be made, even if it is just for the sake of the future. If they don't realize its bad now, what stops them from repeating the same mistake come 4.0 whenever that may be. MTF
Tempest Stormwind 06-26-06, 01:23 PM	I thought it was fixed in an erreta or something. No more twinned synchronicity for extra actions. Or am I thinking of the wrong power? No, Synchronicity never got any errata or clarification. We just found out we'd misread the rules on readied actions. Twinned Synchronicity doesn't work. QUICKENED does. As does Affinity Field (leading to the manifester providing 1 action per power point to anyone in the field, provided they're able to take a standard action without leaving the field).
Ipsissimus 06-27-06, 07:41 AM	I use energy wall and to great effect, I wouldn't reform it away for any reason unless they made a newer augmentable version. Remember, there is no power resistance and it can be shaped like most walls. Not to mention it can last for quite some time. Energy Wall + Energy Push (as DisposableHero mentions in the nova thread) is quite effective and fun. You could also use telekentic thrust for multiple target fun, or my favorite. Energy Wall + Telekentic Buffer and just ready an action to push them back into the wall should they peek out...well, you have your psicrystal ready an action. :eek: Though there are many valid points I can't see why so many other powers (or powers that are converted to spells) would be considered nerf. Many powers, feats, spells, prcs etc are designed for short run campaigns. Not everyone makes it to epic levels or even high levels. Would anyone take float? Ever? Definately in a seafearing campaign...but that's just me. I guess each campaign is different as it each encounter and DM. To each his own.
pfooti 06-27-06, 11:04 AM	Control Body Rating: mech, nerf * What "humanoid physiology" is, is ill-defined. Is it something of the humanoid type, or what? (mech) * A psion can, using solicit psicrystal or something similar that allows easier concentration, manifest this on themselves and suddenly gain a massive attack, damage, and AC bonus. All for a 4th-level power! This is especially deadly on psionic gish. (nerf) You don't even need to use Solicit Psicrystal, as I read the power. You can just control your own body and command it to do whatever, essentially swapping your INT bonus for your STR and DEX bonuses to hit, damage, and AC (which, interestingly, don't get decreased by armor Max Dex). Hmm. I might need to take this power.
Lycanthromancer 12-17-06, 07:06 PM	What about Control Object? Take a close look at it, and tell me why anyone would make use of it? Control Object Psychokinesis Level: Kineticist 1 Display: Material Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./ level) Target: One unattended object weighing up to 100 lb. Duration: Concentration, up to 1 round/level Saving Throw: None Power Resistance: No Power Points: 1 You telekinetically “bring to life” an inanimate object. Though it is not actually alive, the object moves under your control. Live vegetation cannot be controlled in this fashion, nor can already animated objects or undead. The controlled object moves like a puppet, with jerky and clumsy movements, at a speed of up to 20 feet. If its form is rigid, it makes creaking, groaning, or grating sounds as you control it. A controlled object can attack an opponent if you direct it to do so. It has one slam attack, at a base attack bonus equal to your base attack bonus plus your Intelligence modifier. If the attack hits, it deals points of damage equal to 1d6 plus your Intelligence modifier. A controlled object has its usual hardness and hit points. You can use this power on a nonmagical lock, making it move in such a way as to attempt to unlock itself. If another character makes an Open Lock check involving a lock that you are concentrating on controlling, the character gains a +4 bonus on the check. Astral Construct is so much better than this, it's not even funny. There are only two things that this power does better than Astral Construct: its manifesting time, and the fact that you can unlock doors (which you can't even do if you don't have ranks in the skill). Otherwise, its nonaugmentability, duration of concentration, and requirement for a preexisting object essentially make this worthless (and there are several powers that can make any utilitarian-uses for this one pretty much laughable - such as Far Hand and Telekinetic Force - and even Astral Construct's utilitarian uses blow Control Object away). Make augmentations for it and skip the concentration-bit, increase its effects and make it more utilitarian, and you might have a decent power; otherwise, it sucks, and badly.
AntiDjinn 12-17-06, 07:12 PM	Astral Seed should be Rating: Cut and paste error. Same applies to Metaconcert referencing Mind Thrust as a source of stat damage. This wasn't bad writing, just sloppy editing. There are so many of these in recent books that it really should be its own category.
Azarias 12-17-06, 08:01 PM	A few more thoughts: * Control Object: my current 7th level psion (Int 20) uses a small mithril sphere (hardness 15, 30hp) to inflict a +8 [1d6+5] attack, with a 170' range, every round for 7 rounds. For the same single pp, he could summon a 1st level astral construct with no hardness, paltry hp, and a +3 [1d6+3] attack. The 1pp construct often goes down after a single round: the sphere never does. The difference is Concentration, but in many circumstances (potentially dangerous noncombat situations, for example, or mindless foes), the Controlled Object is superior to the Astral Construct. It's a fantastically cheap way of chipping away at foes, especially if the psion is out of reach, and 1pp attack powers of this calibre are extremely rare. It really does have utility. * Vigour: the boards will hate me for saying it, but I think 5hp/pp is too much. To my mind, 3hp/pp would be more balanced. Is there any psion-player who has not rubbed their hands in glee at the extreme usefulness of this power? * Energy Adaptation: the wording here is very poor. It suggests the power applies to all energy types listed, then contradicts itself. Almost certainly all powers are intended, but the description needs to be rewritten. * Telekinetic Thrust: a 5th level psion with some simple props (ie a bag of holding) can routinely inflict 25d6 damage with this power. A cruel DM can rule that a 20th level psion in a desert can inflict only 1 damage. The extreme damage range (1 damage-25d6) and the lack of rules for complex maneuvers (hurling one foe against another, for example) as well as the Will save (which seems an odd choice to me) leave this much-exploited power in need of clarification and balancing. * Psychic Reformation: the psion power list is nicely balanced by being more flexible (multiple energies, augmentations) but shorter than that of arcanists. This power allows almost unlimited access to the entire general list, and specialised powers can be gained through acquisition of Expanded Knowledge feats. 50xp/level is a noticeable cost, but the rewards are those of a much higher level power. It's an interesting idea, and suits psionics well, but as it stands, it's too versatile. One solution might be to up the power level, another to limit the regularity of uses. * Greater Concealing Amorpha: total concealment (so immunity to all targetted spells and powers) while the psion is free to blast away. Overpowered. * Ectoplasmic Form: a dc20+power Concentration check is easy for a psion, especially if he's prepared to expend a focus to take 15. Since inertial armour still applies, this again allows him to manifest rather too easily. Disallowing manifestation (as per Gaseous Form) would be the solution. Just my tuppence, feel free to disagree obviously.
MasonZII 12-17-06, 08:55 PM	I think it's sensible to start out with XPH stuff only, making note of CPsi changes. To start trying to fix CPsi would be a large and distracting task, which would have less overall relevance to most players. Vigor: Its limiting factor is its duration. The game has plenty of great short-duration buffs, but rounds are such a precious commodity in combat that they're balanced by their opportunity cost. Reformation: It's fine, and if it presents a problem in someone's game then it's a easy one to house-rule. Nerf it too hard and psionics becomes pretty noob-unfriendly, since it'd be harder to revise one's list as one learns more about the system. Control Body: The trick here is that the psion can technically manifest normally, while the psicrystal concentrates on moving the psion's body in combat. This effectively splits it into a physical and mental standard action, which is pretty nice when combined with the other buffs.
Deekin 12-17-06, 10:00 PM	Hypercognition: Mech. What does this power do? It seems to be three things 1. You can make reasonable statements about a person, place, or object, seemingly from very little knowledge. 2. The nature of the knowledge you gain concerning the subject of your analysis might include the answer to a riddle, the way out of a maze, stray bits of information about a person, legends about a place or an object, or even a conclusion concerning a dilemma that your conscious mind is unable to arrive at. 3. An Intelligence check may be required to obtain the desired information. If so, you can manifest hypercognition as an immediate action prior to making the check and receive a +20 bonus for doing so. But non of those options are very clear.
IceFractal 12-17-06, 10:42 PM	First Off - Ectoplasmic Cocoon. While they are helpless, you can't CdG them (or even hit them) because of the cocoon. So I don't see a problem with it. Secondly, while much of this is true, I think that the level of proposed nerfing is a bit overzealous. For example, Call to Mind. Yes, you could use this, plus a single skill rank in each Knowledge skill, to have some pretty good sage ability at a low investment. I wouldn't call this so much broken though, as simply intelligent power use. And I've never seen a game broken by someone having decent Knowledge skills. Another thing - Teleport. While incompatible with some low-magic settings, it fits just fine into typical, somewhat high-magic settings like FR or Eberron. Ditto Knock. Certain things are just easier to accomplish by magic/psionics. Fabricate, while it may have breakable uses (not that many, though, given that it needs raw materials based on GP value), is just the kind of thing that you should be able to do. IMO, the game would be a lot less interesting if you could only use psionics/magic for simple combat bonuses.
Nairalimis 12-17-06, 10:56 PM	What about Second Chace? I have no idea if this spell offers 1 reroll a round for 1 round a level, if you have one reroll, and can hold it for one round a level, and if its the first why on Earth Fate of One is so high level.
Surgo 12-17-06, 11:14 PM	I must say that I'm pretty glad to see this resurrected, as it took me a lot of time to make and I see a lot of the same questions popping up over and over and over on this board. I've given this a few edits due to some people pointing stuff out to me and some apparant errata slipping under my nose. I also removed those line breaks (artifacts of copy/pasting from nano) that made it hard to read. edited: ectoplasmic cocoon (removed). edit: energy adaptation (minor mech) Now to answer a few questions... What about Second Chace? I have no idea if this spell offers 1 reroll a round for 1 round a level, if you have one reroll, and can hold it for one round a level, and if its the first why on Earth Fate of One is so high level. As it says clearly in the description of the power, it's 1 reroll per round, for one round/level. What makes Fate of One so much better is that Second Chance is a standard action manifesting time, and must be manifested before doing any rerolling. Fate of One, on the other hand, is immediate and can be manifested after that fortitude save that you just failed. Energy Adaptation: the wording here is very poor. It suggests the power applies to all energy types listed, then contradicts itself. Almost certainly all powers are intended, but the description needs to be rewritten. Oh, I missed that. Looks like anoher copy/paste error to me. Added. Greater Concealing Amorpha: total concealment (so immunity to all targetted spells and powers) while the psion is free to blast away. Overpowered. You're confusing concealment and cover. Total cover makes you immune to targetted spells of the ranged touch variety, full concealment does not. Telekinetic Thrust: a 5th level psion with some simple props (ie a bag of holding) can routinely inflict 25d6 damage with this power. A cruel DM can rule that a 20th level psion in a desert can inflict only 1 damage. The extreme damage range (1 damage-25d6) and the lack of rules for complex maneuvers (hurling one foe against another, for example) as well as the Will save (which seems an odd choice to me) leave this much-exploited power in need of clarification and balancing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it takes a standard action to remove an item from a bag of holding or similar items. No comment on the other part, though. Nice creative use of control object.
Nairalimis 12-17-06, 11:31 PM	As it says clearly in the description of the power, it's 1 reroll per round, for one round/level. What makes Fate of One so much better is that Second Chance is a standard action manifesting time, and must be manifested before doing any rerolling. Fate of One, on the other hand, is immediate and can be manifested after that fortitude save that you just failed. So the "until discharged" in the spell's duration is just a typo?
Surgo 12-17-06, 11:34 PM	So the "until discharged" in the spell's duration is just a typo? Oh, I missed that somehow. It's likely the same situation as Dispelling Buffer -- missing deletion from an earlier draft of the power. I'll add that bit in when my next batch update rolls around.
AntiDjinn 12-17-06, 11:39 PM	It's likely the same situation as Dispelling Buffer -- missing deletion from an earlier draft of the power. Psi 3.5 is just full of legacy errors from the previous edition. The PsiHB is not done tormenting us yet.
Nairalimis 12-18-06, 12:17 AM	Oh, I missed that somehow. It's likely the same situation as Dispelling Buffer -- missing deletion from an earlier draft of the power. I'll add that bit in when my next batch update rolls around. That clears it up for me. Thanks.
FeceMan 12-18-06, 01:21 AM	Why is affinity field broken? The bad guys get a Will save to prevent psions from going nova, don't they...or is there other brokenation I'm missing?
Lycanthromancer 12-18-06, 01:55 AM	Affinity Field (shared with psicrystal), then manifesting any helpful power, such as Synchronicity or Psionic Body (unaugmented). Due to feedback loops between the two powers, everyone in the field is affected AN INFINITE NUMBER OF TIMES by that power. In addition, since basic damage is spread out through an Affinity Field but higher-level powers aren't, what happens if you get hit by Psionic Disintegrate? You took damage, so that affects everyone, right? But it's a 6th level power, which bypasses Affinity Field. So which is it, exactly? And that's just the beginning.
AntiDjinn 12-18-06, 05:16 AM	Affinity Field was nerfed considerably from 3.0. It used to allow no save vs. the power effects it shared; the only way to avoid such effects was to leave the area. Now foes save as normal vs. any spell or power effect shared by affinity field (normal meaning they save vs. the DC of the effect in question, not the DC of Affinity Field). It comes out broken when used cooperatively. Allies don't make saves vs. beneficial effects shared. It seems that the designers often rely on saving throws for balance, but for some reason scenarios with willing targets never come up in playtesting. It can be used to set up infinite or at least positive feedback loops something no reasonable DM wants to see (just say No to recursion). It it also the first step in many novas, though most of them are suicide novas.
Azarias 12-18-06, 09:04 AM	Surgo - (1) TK Thrust: it's a move action to tip out your steel cannonball from a Bag of Holding. So yes, the 5th level psion can deal 25d6 a round, no problem. (2) Total Concealment: I could well be wrong here, but total concealement prevents Line of Sight (but not Line of Effect). Does that not preclude targetted spellcasting? You can target the square, but if the power requires a creature-target (as many do), that's not enough. ?
Lycanthromancer 12-18-06, 12:29 PM	Why are arcane casters better at Telekinesis than psionic manifesters are? I mean, c'mon...It's what psychics are KNOWN FOR. I know it might be a bit of a stretch, but combine Telekinetic Thrust, Telekinetic Force, and Telekinetic Maneuver into one power, with suitable augments. Thou shalt not make mages better at psionics than psions. [edit] Would it help if Telekinetic Force and Thrust were combined, and then it was combined with Telekinetic Maneuver on a discipline list?
MasonZII 12-18-06, 02:31 PM	Is that damage uniquely related to a ranged attack with a steel cannonball? Because a 5th level psion can only thrust a 250lb object for 10d6 damage in the power's normal usage. TK Thrust is certainly nice at low levels, but poor BAB + Int mod probably won't keep up with a target's full AC particularly well, and DR will end up removing a lot of that initial 5d6 bump of damage at high levels. Agreed on the Telekinesis unification.
Azarias 12-18-06, 02:40 PM	TK Thrust: oops, my mistake, sorry. Still, 10d6 isn't quite so ridiculous as 25d6, but at 5th level it's still plenty too much, isn't it? Yes, the psion needs to hit, but the Int mod improves that, the power description (very unclear on this point) seems to imply that such a use would bypass saves and PR (I think a creature only gets a save a/o PR if you try to hurl *it*, right?), and the attack roll allows the potental for criticals. Still very, very powerful at 5th. Unification of TK powers: Myself, I like the separation: I wish they'd do the same with the spell. But I think TK Thrust especially is messily written - as evidenced above and in previous posts - and a rewrite is in order.
crizhII 12-18-06, 02:52 PM	Is that damage uniquely related to a ranged attack with a steel cannonball? Because a 5th level psion can only thrust a 250lb object for 10d6 damage in the power's normal usage. TK Thrust is certainly nice at low levels, but poor BAB + Int mod probably won't keep up with a target's full AC particularly well, and DR will end up removing a lot of that initial 5d6 bump of damage at high levels. Agreed on the Telekinesis unification. Don't know about canonballs but a fifth level Psion with 5 Colossal Javelins is dishing out 20D6. It's a ranged touch attack so as you level up it gets easier and easier to hit, eventually only missing on a 1. As to DR make your javelins out of Adamantine or Alchemical Silver and enchant them to boot TK thrust does nasty damage compared to Fireball et al.
AntiDjinn 12-18-06, 03:09 PM	I disagree that TK as it stands is weaker for manifesters. This has been covered before in discussion of making a psi version of the Master of the Unseen Hand. Telekinesis is a 5th level arcane spell. This means a wizard first gets it at 9th level (sorcerer at 10th). Each time he uses any of the functions, it costs him a 5th level slot. By contrast, a psion can know all three of the TK powers at 7th level; if any of the three don't interest him he can skip it. He can use all the abilities of a 5th level spell fully two levels before a wizard (some of them fully four levels earlier), yet he only pays points for the effects he actually uses. If the two functions of the Gate spell (planar travel and call creatures) were broken up into two 7th level powers, would you whine that you are being forced to spend two power slots when the mage only spends 1 spell slot? Hell no! You would take both (or just one) and be glad you are using a 9th level effect fully 4 character levels earlier. When you use Telekinetic Force as a 5th level psion you are doing something a 9th level wizard would need his highest level spell slot to duplicate. The Spell Mind Blank blocks all scrying, does that mean the 3rd level spell Nondetection never sees use? Does the Druid moan that his Wildshape ability is nerfed because the wizard will eventually be able to duplicate it (including elemental forms) with Shapechange? Just because there is a higher level effect that duplicates or combines lower level ones does not mean that the individual lower level effects are not a good deal.
FrEeZiNgFiRe 12-18-06, 03:10 PM	Microcosm Rating: :p A ninth-level save-or-die that happens to be [Mind-affecting]. Has anyone ever actually taken this? Microcosm is not a save-or-die spell. It has no save, only a maximum ammount of HP you can influence. Telepathy (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting] Level: Psion/wilder 9 Display: Material Manifesting Time: 1 standard action Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels) Target or Area: One creature; or one or more creatures within a 15-ft.-radius sphere Duration: Instantaneous Saving Throw: None Power Resistance: Yes Power Points: 17 For every additional power point you spend, the number of individual and group hit points the power can affect increases by 10.
Lycanthromancer 12-18-06, 03:13 PM	AntiDjinn: Agreed - to a point. However, power-slots are extremely valuable, and utilizing 3 power-slots instead of one for something that could very easily be used with augmentation means that you're basically wasting powers known. I've never taken all three powers, and I don't think I ever would. It just doesn't seem worth it.
MasonZII 12-18-06, 03:21 PM	Azarias: I agree that some reworking of the mechanics would be a good idea. I personally hate that tossing an enemy is such puny damage. I wrote a reworked version which balanced the various uses (the sudden acceleration of a tossed character would do some initial force damage, and the impact would do a scaling amount of bludgeoning damage). crizhII: Incorrect, it's a ranged attack. Hurled colossal weapons are the munchkiny usage of the power, certainly. But like I said, a standard psion will have trouble making the ranged attacks, with that poor BAB opposed by full AC. In particular, making all 5 ranged attack rolls for those javelins. You could certainly make a character who was great at this, with a gish build and lots of abilities (offensive precog, control body, &c.) to get that attack up. But that has become a substantial investment to optimize the heck out of a power, which has little bearing on its base usage. But more importantly: ranged attack. Look it up.
MasonZII 12-18-06, 03:46 PM	AntiDjinn: We all know that it would suit the casting systems better if the situation were reversed: a unified 5th level telekinesis power and multiple 3rd-4th level transmutation spells. As it is, no psion should waste 3 slots (of any level) on all 3 effects, and I'd be surprised if wizards were crazy about spending one of their meaty 5th-level slots on a swiss-army knife spell without any particularly sharp blades. Reversed, it isn't so bad.
crizhII 12-18-06, 04:54 PM	doh. Read the Rules?! ROFLMFAO. (It's kinda my 'catchphrase', not in a good way though...) Don't know how I got that idea into my head, much grovelling. I'll just nip off and make some MAJOR alterations to an upcoming NPC.....
ssvegeta555 12-19-06, 01:26 AM	What about Damp Power? It seems a little too good for a second level power to reduce damage that much. Or am I missing something?
Tempest Stormwind 12-19-06, 01:31 AM	What about Damp Power? It seems a little too good for a second level power to reduce damage that much. Or am I missing something? It damps one effect and costs you an immediate action, and only affects *you*. It also does nothing on things that don't have variable damage, particularly maximized effects. Compare with Intellect Fortress, the only power that does anything remotely similar, which essentially says "everyone in a moderate area takes half damage from all spells and powers from now until next round, and as I pay more it lasts longer." Still immediate, though. The duration alone, plus the ability to hit multiple effects, nonvariable effects (for instance, it completely neutralizes an ectoplasmic shambler, IIRC) and affect others right off the bat, put it superior to the augmented Damp Power in many regards. That said, Damp is still extremely useful. The problem with it, though, is how it interacts with Maximize. It isn't clear to some people that it doesn't defeat a maximized power (there was a long thread on this a while ago).
AntiDjinn 12-19-06, 01:48 AM	Damp Power is only effective vs. powers, psi-like abilities, spells, and spell-like abilities. It is of no value if someone simply walks up and shoves a sword into you. It can't be used to reduce falling damage, nor damage from things falling on you. If someone manifests Astral Construct and you think Damp Power will work as a defense, think again. The power's effect is to create a construct, thereafter, the construct hits as a creature. Damp Power can be used if a construct uses an SP ability on you, but you need to pay for Damp Power and spend your immediate action to do so each time the SP ability is used. If you realize an opponent is using Damp Power (a psicraft roll after you watch him take less damage than expected, it is an observation of the effect of the power) you just need to change tactics. Switch to nickel and dime mode or use powers such as Astral Construct, Schism, Personality Parasite, Fate Link, Fission, and others to bring several sources of damage to bear. Your foe will have to pick one power effect per round and pay for Damp Power, or he will have to decide to let the damage through rather than chew through his points trying to block it. It is a nice power, but it isn't like you can't beat someone down for thinking it is a defense they can count on every round.
MasonZII 12-19-06, 02:15 AM	Damp Power isn't insurmountable, certainly, but it can trivialize a wide range of offenses. And check it again, TS, I'm pretty sure its augment damps the effect for everyone. Intellect Fortress is better if someone else is within 20' of you and is being individually targeted by spell/psionic damage effects, or you're getting hit by lots of effects in a round. If you're included in the effects, or you're only worried about a single source of damage each round, Damp Power is quite likely tons better, at half the price. Situational differences, certainly, but I'd say that Damping is handier in the more common situations. An augmented Intellect Fortress with Damp Power used on subsequent rounds, now that's a nice defense... I don't think I'd consider DP "problematic" beyond its ability to confuse via tricky wording/concepts, though. Psionics needn't apologize for having a few shiny bits.
ZocckCastlestorm 04-15-07, 07:26 PM	Hello, I hope I haven't merely missed this Answer posted elsewhere, however: Question: In Complete Psionics, the Power "Cranial Deluge" was only a mid-Level Power, yet it's listed Damage was a staggering 17D6 !!! This can't be right, can it? If I am correct in my deductions, the Power was meant to start at 7D6 and was intended to be Augmented for more Damage. The 17, was a typo. Intended to be 7. Am I correct, or is there another logical expanation?
Scion of Coldshard 04-15-07, 07:37 PM	5th level power, 1 round manifesting time, close range, single target, fort negates, 18d6 damage on a failed save and the augment does not give it extra damage but every 2 points does increase the dc by 1. If we are talking about the same power I have to ask, why would anyone even bother to take this power? And if they did, when is it useful?
Lycanthromancer 04-15-07, 07:37 PM	It's not Complete Psionic. It's Complete DISASTER.
Deekin 04-15-07, 07:43 PM	Hello, I hope I haven't merely missed this Answer posted elsewhere, however: Question: In Complete Psionics, the Power "Cranial Deluge" was only a mid-Level Power, yet it's listed Damage was a staggering 17D6 !!! This can't be right, can it? If I am correct in my deductions, the Power was meant to start at 7D6 and was intended to be Augmented for more Damage. The 17, was a typo. Intended to be 7. Am I correct, or is there another logical expanation? Consider Disintegrate, Psionic.
Tempest Stormwind 04-15-07, 07:53 PM	5th level power, 1 round manifesting time, close range, single target, fort negates, 18d6 damage on a failed save and the augment does not give it extra damage but every 2 points does increase the dc by 1. If we are talking about the same power I have to ask, why would anyone even bother to take this power? And if they did, when is it useful?Ever seen Scanners? Gotta get style points. Really, the only reason I can see people taking it is if they're Mental Power ardents without a better save-or-die available due to their mantle selection, or if they're forced to take a Mental Power power due to primary mantle selection. (Mental Power is really only worth it as a primary if you crave the bonus power points or really want Mind Thrust at level 1, though.) That said, it's even worse for ardents than it is for psions, since it's higher-level. Speaking of, Mind Thrust is an excellent power to compare this one to. Both powers are close range, save-negates, and deal high damage for their cost. Both also have serious, serious drawbacks (mind-affecting/long manifest time) and are demonstratably worse than other powers of their levels (for instance, Energy Ray and Disintegrate can both affect objects, while Mind Thrust and Cranial Deluge cannot).
ZocckCastlestorm 04-15-07, 07:57 PM	Good Lord-of-the-$#@^%ing-Rings!!! 17+ D6 HP's Damage and you ask how is this useful??? Can you say Manifest without Mental/Visual/Auditory ECT Effects and Assasinate someone really, really messily. Unless you do something to give yourself away, you MIGHT-not probably, but might, get away with this and just walk home. In the mean time the body you nuked isn't going to be a problem until brought back from the Dead.:rolleyes:
Scion of Coldshard 04-15-07, 08:07 PM	Ever seen Scanners? Gotta get style points. I do love style points. Except when getting those style points has the potential to get me killed in a non-stylistic way :( Speaking of, Mind Thrust is an excellent power to compare this one to. Both powers are close range, save-negates, and deal high damage for their cost. Both also have serious, serious drawbacks (mind-affecting/long manifest time) and are demonstratably worse than other powers of their levels (for instance, Energy Ray and Disintegrate can both affect objects, while Mind Thrust and Cranial Deluge cannot). Yeah. And as much as I dislike mind thrust I would take mind thrust over cranial deluge. The [mind-affecting] descriptor is bad but I do not want to stand there for a round only to do about the same average damage for the same cost. At least mind thrust keeps on going up in damage or I can choose to use less pp's on it if I want. Good Lord-of-the-$#@^%ing-Rings!!! 17+ D6 HP's Damage and you ask how is this useful??? Can you say Manifest without Mental/Visual/Auditory ECT Effects and Assasinate someone really, really messily. Unless you do something to give yourself away, you MIGHT-not probably, but might, get away with this and just walk home. In the mean time the body you nuked isn't going to be a problem until brought back from the Dead. You might want to calm down a bit there. If you are going to be within close range and can stand there manifesting a power, even if you do lose the ringing and covering things in goo, for such a long time it is very likely a target not worth your time to begin with. Especially if they have a good chance of dieing from it. The power just isnt that good. Sure, it does a good amount of damage, but at the levels we are talking most things do. It is not save or die, it just does damage to a single target within close range who fails a save. Plus in a few levels its damage isnt even impressive anymore.
Tempest Stormwind 04-15-07, 08:11 PM	Good Lord-of-the-$#@^%ing-Rings!!! 17+ D6 HP's Damage and you ask how is this useful??? Can you say Manifest without Mental/Visual/Auditory ECT Effects and Assasinate someone really, really messily. Unless you do something to give yourself away, you MIGHT-not probably, but might, get away with this and just walk home. In the mean time the body you nuked isn't going to be a problem until brought back from the Dead.:rolleyes: 18d6, actually. 1) You have to be CLOSE to the target. At levels where you get this (9 for psions, 11 for ardents) that's 45 and 50 feet, respectively. Chances are they know you're there. 2) It's a 1-round manifesting time. That means that you spend a full-round action manifesting it AND YOU CONTINUE TO MANIFEST IT UNTIL THE START OF YOUR NEXT TURN. You're within charge distance of pretty much anyone and you're standing there saying "hit me, hit me". Unless you're blending into a crowd or something similar (which is hardly the most common adventuring experience), you're probably going to get *thwacked* -- which means you need to make a Concentration check or lose the power with no effect. 3) They get a Fortitude save to utterly negate the effect. Just in case you made your Concentration check earlier. 4) Compare to Psionic Disintegrate (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/disintegratePsionic.htm), a level 6 power (same as Cranial Deluge for ardents, one level higher for psions) which does comparable damage (2d6 per point for psions; ardents have less efficient use) except it can be used on objects and if the target makes the save, he still takes damage (5d6), so your attack isn't a total waste. Oh, and if Disintegrate works, the target can't even be resurrected. Looking at this objectively, it's very similar to comparing Psychic Crush (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/psychicCrush.htm) to, say, Slay Living (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/slayLiving.htm). The effect is interesting, but the drawbacks prevent it from being anything more than underwhelming (though it might look quite mighty if you discount them).
AntiDjinn 04-17-07, 02:01 AM	Feat Leech: Conf, Mech, various. This power seems clear enough, but there are issues with its actual application. It rarely sees use except in games where psionics is very common because it is completely worthless if the subject does not have psionic and/or metapsionic feats. When it is used it can be quite powerful for a second level power, and it can be broken when used cooperatively. First off, the only restriction placed is that you can't steal a feat for which you don't meet the prereqs. So you can't take an elan racial feat if you are not an elan. But what about taking feats for which you simply can't gain the benefit? If you already have Psicrystal Affinity then normally you can't take the feat again, but that has nothing to do with the prereqs and prereqs are the only restrictions that appear to apply. So if you have a feat can you still steal it from another, without gaining the benefit yourself, simply to deprive your target of it? The power can be broken when used on a willing target (especially if extended). The touch attack assumes you are using it on an opponent, as does the save if the power is extended beyond its normal duration. If your target is an ally it can get ugly. A thrallherd leaching multiple iterations of Psionic Talent from his thralls could gain more points than they loose. Two manifesters who both know this power can trade Expanded Knowledge to gain temporary access to their choice of powers. And for some specific feat issues: Expanded Knowledge: If your target used the feat to gain a second level power, but your ML allows you to manifest 5th level powers, can you use the feat to learn your choice of powers up to level 4, or would you gain the exact power your target lost? The benefit section of the feat says you can choose any power, so upon gaining the feat do you get to make this choice? Host Feats: They are also (specifically stated) psionic feats. So can you actually suck the psionic entity right out of someone and force it to bond temporarily with you? Note: The fact that a psionic entity takes up residence in your bod is listed as a benefit, not a prereq. As written, it looks like they are all leechable. Illithid Heritage feats: Like you would ever want to, but they are also psionic feats and so can be stolen. So do you actually temporarily steal someone's ancestry? Practiced Manifester: How it works is obvious, but being able to drain away 4 manifester levels with a second level power seems a bit much. Practiced Spellcaster does not have this feature (then again, PS is not available as a bonus feat). Psicrystal Affinity: So what happens exactly? Do you steal the other guy's psicrystal or simply gain one of your own? Does his crystal cease to exist for a while or does he simply loose the link (it remains a creature) and any other benefits derived from the feat? If you steal someone's crystal and it gets destroyed while in your possession, which one of you has to call customer service? Psionic Talent: Stacking issues, though only in limited circumstance. Skin of the Construct: What actually happens if someone is wearing a construct and you walk up and steal this feat? Does the Astral Construct simply cease to exist or does it unbond?
Nom 05-06-07, 01:10 AM	Time Regression Rating: conf On any turn, unroll game state to 1 round ago? In many situations this might be OK, but in a complex high-level combat it's a nightmare. Intertial barrier vs biofeedback: it's worth noting that IB is 7 pp for DR 5/- for 10 min/lvl. Biofeedback is 1 min/lvl, and DR 5/- will cost at least 10 pp. My issue with both spells is that anything troubled by the DR ratings probably isn't that scary anyway. At least inertial barrier lasts long enough that you can just throw it up to deter nuisances.
Infinitum 05-06-07, 01:46 AM	Here's an idea, remove psionics entirely. That way, we don't have to worry about any "overpowered" powers period. Psionics isn't overpowered. Considering you have a rather small power point limit to the number of encounters you will have before you rest, you cant just spam everything you have on a whim. As it stands, psionics doesn't even have that many options to begin with. All the versatility has gone to the wizards and clerics. Sure, psionics has some strong abilities, but psionics are rather linear in general. Nerf everything you want, but unless you're gonna compensate with something worthwhile then don't touch it. Of course, that's just me. Make what you will of it, flame me to oblivion, but I'm positive I'm not the only one here sick of all the "nerf psionics" threads. Before you jump me on that point, look at the majority of posts here, and look at the OP's analysis of abilities. That's why I call it a "nerf psionics" thread.
Fafnir 05-06-07, 07:35 AM	Here's an idea, remove psionics entirely. That way, we don't have to worry about any "overpowered" powers period. Psionics isn't overpowered. Considering you have a rather small power point limit to the number of encounters you will have before you rest, you cant just spam everything you have on a whim. As it stands, psionics doesn't even have that many options to begin with. All the versatility has gone to the wizards and clerics. Sure, psionics has some strong abilities, but psionics are rather linear in general. Nerf everything you want, but unless you're gonna compensate with something worthwhile then don't touch it. Of course, that's just me. Make what you will of it, flame me to oblivion, but I'm positive I'm not the only one here sick of all the "nerf psionics" threads. Before you jump me on that point, look at the majority of posts here, and look at the OP's analysis of abilities. That's why I call it a "nerf psionics" thread. I fail to see your point. :confused: This isn't a "nerf psionics tread", the only troll here isn't being listened to, and the rest of the posts are pointing out weak points which should be fixed. No psi-haters here. By the way, how would removing psionics solve the problem? Are you going to remove magic too, since the corresponding thread on the Magic & Spell boards is twice as long?
AntiDjinn 05-06-07, 11:44 AM	The point of this thread is not to nerf psionics, but to improve it by fixing the small number of powers that are poorly worded, unclear, or have outright errors. How does fixing errors (e.g. Metaconcert's mention of taking stat damage from Mind Thrust when that power does hit point damage) amount to a nerf? Do you feel the system is stronger with this error and others in place?
Infinitum 05-06-07, 11:55 AM	I fail to see your point. :confused: This isn't a "nerf psionics tread", the only troll here isn't being listened to, and the rest of the posts are pointing out weak points which should be fixed. No psi-haters here. By the way, how would removing psionics solve the problem? Are you going to remove magic too, since the corresponding thread on the Magic & Spell boards is twice as long? I was being sarcastic. Sorry to blow up like that but I just didn't like where the OP was heading and I wasn't having a great day :( That aside, I think psionics are fine apart from some powers. I can give you my full opinion later when I have time.
Fafnir 05-07-07, 06:41 AM	I was being sarcastic. Sorry to blow up like that but I just didn't like where the OP was heading and I wasn't having a great day :( That aside, I think psionics are fine apart from some powers. I can give you my full opinion later when I have time. Whoops, sorry. Didn't catch the sarcasm... :embarrass I know what you mean about bad days, actually, I'm having one right now. :mad:
Rhonin the Big 05-07-07, 10:46 AM	Before I throw in Rhonin's two big cents I would like to congratulate the OP for a good resource thread. This thread summarizes all the GBI with psionics and magic on a per-spell basis. On the bank-breaking spells I have to repeat myself: Dungeons & Dragons is an adventure. It is built as an adventure, it is balanced as an adventure and any argument for GBI which takes d&d out of the context of an adventure is flawed. Psions should have adventure and RP constraints on them so as not to break your bank with Fabricate or anything else, otherwize why play d&d? Why should Gandalf travel through the misty mountains when he can just fabricate a bunch of candy to sell to children? Most mech or conf rated powers can be easily solved by asking the DM how he rules this BEFORE IT IS USED! When I played my first warblade I was considering taking Iron Heart Surge (a maneuver rated Mech and conf), so as not to use it in a way that the DM thinks is illegal I asked my good buddy zavin while his OpenRPG was loading "How do you interpret Iron Heart Surge?" If you have no idea how Metaconcert works ask your DM before trying to manifest it, its just that simple. Certain powers like Tru Seeing & Mind Blank are considered broke mechanically because it nullifies entire schools, but shouldn't higher level wizards and psions be immune to such cheap tricks? I mean, If I can teleport anywhere in the entire multiverse and warp the very fabric of space and time through sheer willpower shouldn't I have immunity to some lucky telepath going "sit boy?" There is a difference between mechanical GBI and fantastic GBI; by this I mean that while something may cause GBI mechanically, in game and in character its balanced compared to what higher level wizards and psions should be able to do. Be careful what you rate nerfed or :p, some powers may be more useful on certain opponents than save-or-dies. Contrarian Urge from Races of Wild is a less useful Death Urge, until my LE telepath met a paladin for the first time. I had two options, attempt to kill him outright or use Contrarian Urge to give him a strange overpowering urge to do something evil therefor causing him to go ex-pally in 6 seconds flat ... I chose to manifest contrarian urge and now the local paladin guild fears me. I nominate Anticipatory Strike: Rated: broke Reason: This spell does at psion5 what 10 levels of Eternal Blade does once per encounter, allow you to take your turn immediately out of initiative. Fix: Change it to a 6th or 7th level power, so its aligned with Greater Celerity (which in itself is rated broke).
Enchanter_Tom 05-08-07, 04:38 PM	Crisis of life is so metagamey.
Tempest Stormwind 05-08-07, 04:46 PM	Crisis of life is so metagamey. How so? There are other spells and powers that work off of hit dice that aren't considered metagamey -- Sleep and Color Spray are the big ones, and to a lesser extent any Power Word. "Some creatures are just too strong to be affected by certain magic" was the explanation I recall being given - note that this is different from spell resistance or a successful save.
Surgo 06-05-07, 09:36 PM	Sorry for the lack of updates, guys. I've been away from these boards for...a long time. I'll update the first post in a bit with the problems people have brought up in this thread, and also powers from other sources besides the SRD that I have access to. Does Dreamscarred Press and Untapped Potential still exist? I won't post analyses of the powers here for being horribly offtopic, but I'll send them to the creators.
Deekin 06-05-07, 11:41 PM	Dreamscarred press (http://dreamscarredpress.com/main/index.php) is still around and kicking. And Releasing books that are full of psionic awesome while still being more balanced that some of the recent stuff WotC puts out.;)
hovnarr 06-07-07, 04:12 AM	I am mildly surprised that Call to Mind didn't make the list. A psion would be very breakable at low levels with this power and the smart application of 11 skill points. I actually currently play a level 4 psion with Call to Mind and 1 rank in many knowledge skills. Turns out I get little use out of it though. Might have gone for Aversion or another social power instead. It depends a lot on how the DM plays it I suppose. Much like the effectiveness of divination effects varies depending on how generous your DM is with info.
Archtyrant Terevoth 06-07-07, 04:53 AM	Most of the psibuffs deserve to be on there. Offensive Precog, Defensive Precog, etc. They actually fall into a bunch of categories, at low level they're "nerfed" and at high level, they're "nerf". I mean really, who is going to use offensive prescience at low levels to get a +1 or +2 bonus to attack for a minute or two? That's total garbage. Of course at high level, extending it for a 30 minute +5 or more buff is incredible. For a fix, I recommend reducing the duration to 1 minute fixed and setting the bonuses to +4 insight (unaugmentable). The augment should just be the option of quickening the powers and that's it. This way the powers are good at low levels, and not overpowering at high levels. I'd also recommend changing vigor and offensive prescience to a 1 minute fixed duration, to prevent all kinds of high level buffing out of combat. The other augmentation on these powers is fine though, since hit poitns and damage really need to scale at higher levels.
Archtyrant Terevoth 06-07-07, 05:04 AM	Hypercognition: Mech. What does this power do? It seems to be three things 1. You can make reasonable statements about a person, place, or object, seemingly from very little knowledge. 2. The nature of the knowledge you gain concerning the subject of your analysis might include the answer to a riddle, the way out of a maze, stray bits of information about a person, legends about a place or an object, or even a conclusion concerning a dilemma that your conscious mind is unable to arrive at. 3. An Intelligence check may be required to obtain the desired information. If so, you can manifest hypercognition as an immediate action prior to making the check and receive a +20 bonus for doing so. But non of those options are very clear. Honestly, I think hypercognition falls under the broken list. It really has no place in the game, as it's only purpose is seemingly to allow the player not to think at all. Unlike other divinations, hypercognition doesn't provide you information, it just reaches conclusions. Basically a PC can use it for any situation at any time. If it fails, then you can rightfully complain to your DM that the situation he gave you was impossible, because hypercognition is supposed to think of everything, given the information you have. It's a plot destroying power for any mystery game you may want to run and just totally takes most of the thought out of the game. It has no place in the game at all.
Surgo 06-07-07, 10:38 AM	For a fix, I recommend reducing the duration to 1 minute fixed and setting the bonuses to +4 insight (unaugmentable). The augment should just be the option of quickening the powers and that's it. I don't. Here's why: First of two, a direct +4 insight bonus to attack, damage, or AC at level 1 for a single power point is ridiculous. THAT deserves to be hit with the nerf stick far more than the powers as they stand now do. It may not be as extreme as you go up in level but the game needs to be balanced for all levels of play, not just the higher levels. Quickening makes it too good for even the higher levels though; it adds an augment of six power points, according to the current powers, so now you have an immediate +4 bonus to attack, defense, or damage for a mere seven power points. Second of two, augmentation is a very important part of the powers. You don't have much versatility thanks to your powers known list, and you can't afford to take a higher-level, more powerful option. At the really high levels you start getting into the territory of magic items offering larger insight bonuses than the powers do, which is a serious problem; at this point, the power becomes completely useless. If only for this reason, the bonus should augment. In addition, the precognition powers as they stand aren't so gamebreaking at higher levels. They're expensive, they take time to manifest (unless you quicken and cut your bonus by 2) -- I'm sure something like this has been mentioned in the famous Myth threads.
Archtyrant Terevoth 06-07-07, 06:23 PM	First of two, a direct +4 insight bonus to attack, damage, or AC at level 1 for a single power point is ridiculous. Um... no it's not. You're spending a combat action to get a +4 insight bonus to attack or AC. This isn't just some free buff you throw up. You're suggesting that a +1 bonus as a standard action is balanced at first level? That's just laughable. I mean, are you actually serious about that? You think that's fine as a buff?! Aid another is a better bonus than that and that costs you nothing to use. You're giving up an attack to use this buff. It has to be pretty useful. Quickening makes it too good for even the higher levels though; it adds an augment of six power points, according to the current powers, so now you have an immediate +4 bonus to attack, defense, or damage for a mere seven power points. At least this way, you're paying a swift action at higher levels. As of now, you're paying no action, because you've buffed before battle began, thus the power is *faster* than quickened, it's a non-action. Second of two, augmentation is a very important part of the powers. You don't have much versatility thanks to your powers known list, and you can't afford to take a higher-level, more powerful option. At the really high levels you start getting into the territory of magic items offering larger insight bonuses than the powers do, which is a serious problem; at this point, the power becomes completely useless. If only for this reason, the bonus should augment. Attack bonuses and AC bonuses do not need to scale, not unless they replace a magic item bonus. Inertial armor and force screen need to augment because they're acting instead of a magic shield or magic armor. There are no insight bonus items, so insight bonus abilities shouldn't scale. A +4 to attack at level 1 is just as good as a +4 at level 20, because these bonuses stack with everything. Getting a +4 means you're 20% less likely to be hit or 20% more likely to hit your foes. That's regardless of what level you are. In addition, the precognition powers as they stand aren't so gamebreaking at higher levels. They're expensive, they take time to manifest (unless you quicken and cut your bonus by 2) -- I'm sure something like this has been mentioned in the famous Myth threads. At high level, no they don't take time to manifest. Because you've manifested an extended one outside of combat that lasts you 30 minutes. That's going to last the entire dungeon if you're careful about it.
Rhonin the Big 06-08-07, 12:30 AM	Most of the psibuffs deserve to be on there. Offensive Precog, Defensive Precog, etc. They actually fall into a bunch of categories, at low level they're "nerfed" and at high level, they're "nerf". I mean really, who is going to use offensive prescience at low levels to get a +1 or +2 bonus to attack for a minute or two? That's total garbage. Of course at high level, extending it for a 30 minute +5 or more buff is incredible. For a fix, I recommend reducing the duration to 1 minute fixed and setting the bonuses to +4 insight (unaugmentable). The augment should just be the option of quickening the powers and that's it. This way the powers are good at low levels, and not overpowering at high levels. I'd also recommend changing vigor and offensive prescience to a 1 minute fixed duration, to prevent all kinds of high level buffing out of combat. The other augmentation on these powers is fine though, since hit poitns and damage really need to scale at higher levels. Psions can get a very high bonus to AC just by staying out of range and can get a +10-+12 bonus to attack/damage rolls by using powers that hit touch AC. Those powers suck, the only use I ever got is fueling power attack with Offensive Precog which works better than Offensive Presience. Vigor is even more pathetic, if I want personal healing I would rather have a maximized body adjustment and not fake personal healing out of vigor temp HP. Oh, and your wrong about attack bonuses only needing to scale if they replace magic items. Divine Favor is a luck bonus and that scales, and that spell is never useful at any level. At high level, no they don't take time to manifest. Because you've manifested an extended one outside of combat that lasts you 30 minutes. That's going to last the entire dungeon if you're careful about it. Prebuffing isnt always available, maybe in your campaigns but not always in mine. While Im standing around for 20 seconds making myself stronger I could get sneak attacked for over 9000d6 damage.
Archtyrant Terevoth 06-08-07, 12:26 PM	Oh, and your wrong about attack bonuses only needing to scale if they replace magic items. Divine Favor is a luck bonus and that scales, and that spell is never useful at any level. I didn't say no other spells/powers did it, I just said that there's no need for them to scale. They should start out better but not scale. The fact that you think divine favor isn't useful actually means you agree with me that psibuffs should start out higher than a +1. Prebuffing isnt always available, maybe in your campaigns but not always in mine. While Im standing around for 20 seconds making myself stronger I could get sneak attacked for over 9000d6 damage. Yeah, you're totally likely to get sneak attacked while sitting in town prior to teleporting to your destination. I wonder, how do your characters manage to sleep?
Everdreaming 06-09-07, 12:22 PM	Vigor is even more pathetic, if I want personal healing I would rather have a maximized body adjustment and not fake personal healing out of vigor temp HP. A maximized body adjustment costs 9 power points, 5 for the power and 4 for the maximized, as well as expending your psionic focus. The benefit you gain is 12 hp of healing. Vigor. With vigor, you can use the same 9 power points, no metapsi feats, and gain 45 temp hp. That is, IMHO, much better than 12 of healing, because if you have a cleric in the party you can just heal after a fight, and temp hp allows you to go over your maximum hp.
Rhonin the Big 06-09-07, 02:59 PM	The following posts have officially shut me up. I didn't say no other spells/powers did it, I just said that there's no need for them to scale. They should start out better but not scale. The fact that you think divine favor isn't useful actually means you agree with me that psibuffs should start out higher than a +1. Yeah, you're totally likely to get sneak attacked while sitting in town prior to teleporting to your destination. I wonder, how do your characters manage to sleep? A maximized body adjustment costs 9 power points, 5 for the power and 4 for the maximized, as well as expending your psionic focus. The benefit you gain is 12 hp of healing. Vigor. With vigor, you can use the same 9 power points, no metapsi feats, and gain 45 temp hp. That is, IMHO, much better than 12 of healing, because if you have a cleric in the party you can just heal after a fight, and temp hp allows you to go over your maximum hp. Does anybody else second the nomination of Anticipatory Strike as a problematic power?
Surgo 06-14-07, 10:16 PM	Apparantly, I like to randomly vanish for a week. Stuff You've convinced me, for the most part, though I still don't see it as overly problematic as things stand now. I've really been out of this game for too long...
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 06-27-07, 09:34 PM	Where's concussion blast on the list?