~The New Psychic Warrior; is it that much better?~ [Archive] - Wizards Community

~The New Psychic Warrior; is it that much better?~ [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
rice830
03-04-07, 09:20 PM ~Ok, whenIi first looked at the Psychic Warrior i was disapointed, it lacked BAB, HP, and had horrible powers available. Now with the Complete Psionics there is all this hype about it being very good and powerful.

~So all i want to know is that is it really that good? I lack the Complete Psionic and I'm wondering if i even should get it, is it worth the thirty dollars?

~Convince me, because I love the concept of the Psychic Warrior and am just wondering if I need to start crackin' open the ol' piggy bank.
emagius
03-04-07, 09:39 PM The new feats and powers in Complete Psionic do not do much to strengthen the the Psychic Warrior. In fact, the errata from the book weakens the PsyWar.
rice830
03-04-07, 09:45 PM ~Really? Again, is there any proof to your explanation? There are a lot of people that are far too arrogant that wander Wizards, and not saying that you're one, I would just like any reason as to why the Psychic Warrior is weaker.
Bacris
03-04-07, 10:12 PM Well, one of the PsyWar's better powers - Hostile Empathic Transfer, was nerfed in CPsi.

Really, there is not much in CPsi for a psywar. None of the PrCs are easy a psywar to enter, most of the feats are racial, ardent / divine mind, mind blade, or astral construct related, and most of the new powers are ardent / divine mind / lurk powers.

That being said, there is some new content for psywars in the book, but it's really not much.
AntiDjinn
03-04-07, 10:46 PM The psychic warrior got a huge increase in playability going from the 3.0 PsiHB to the 3.5 XPH, but did not get much new material from Comp. Psi. The main bood granted to the PsW in 3.5 was the removal of psionic combat, which was equivalent to pulling a rather large pointy stick out of each PsW at character creation. In 3.5 you can even multiclass the PsW without risking being wiped out by three phrenic goldfish.
Fireclave
03-04-07, 10:55 PM first looked at the Psychic Warrior i was disapointed
:eek:

it lacked BAB
Actually, 3/4 Bab is good. Quite good. Monk-bard-cleric-druid good. Even better when you use your powers wisely, but I'll get to that.

HP
A d8 hit die is bad? It's only one step down from the fighter, which puts his hp on par with a monk, ranger, druid, etc.

and had horrible powers available.
Most definitely not. The PsyWar's power list is a themed list. Like the Bard illusions, the Hexblade's curses, the Duskblade's melee oriented spells, War Mage's direct damagers, the Ranger's nature spells, and the Beguiler's enchantments, the PsyWar's power list focuses on a single theme and compliments its other abilities. And for PsyWar's, that theme is self-buffs.

The PsyWar's powers compliment what it can already do and makes it a highly customizable melee class. Want a tank? Take powers like Defensive Precognition, Force Shield, Thicken Skin, Concealing Amorpha, and Vigor to boost your saves, AC, and give yourself temp HP and concealment. Want a mobile fighter, take powers like Skate, Psionic Dimension Door, and Psionic Lion's Charge. Want to dish out more additional damage? Take powers like Beast Claws, Weapon of Energy, and True Venom. Want to be a back-up healer? Take Empathic Transfer, Body Adjustment, Body Purification, and Vigor. Want to be a Jedi? Telekinetic Force, Telekinetic Thrust, and Telekinetic Maneuver are for you.

Also, remember that almost all powers can be augmented. Vigor, for example, grants a measly 5 temp HP with a minimum manifestion. A 10th level PsyWar can augment that to grant himself as much as 50 temp hp in one manifestion at the cost of only 10 PP, and those HP will last for a whole 10 minutes. Personally, I think that's just Super-Duper-Shweet.

And if those powers still don't seem all that impressive, you could also take Extra Knowledge with one of your eight bonus feats and pick yourself up some powers from the Psion/Wilder list (psionic fly comes to mind). Or you could instead take feats like Speed of Thought, Up the Walls, Psionic Weapon, or Deep Impact (which goes great with Power Attack and the Offensive Precognition power for when you really need to beat AC while still dealing a sizable amount of damage).

Really, the PsyWar's a great class, and I'd rather play it than a lot of other classes (looking at you fighter :P ). There are only two major weaknesses to the class:
1) MAD
2) Low PP

The former shouldn't be a problem if you get some pretty good stat rolls, use a sizable point buy, or if you're used to playing gish-type characters like Fighter/Wizards, Paladins, ect. The latter shouldn't be a problem if you up your Wis with some stat enhancement items and think tactically about how you plan on using your PP.

Edit: All of this is just using material available in the SRD. From what I hear, the CP wasn't all that good, but I haven't had the chance to do more than just glance over it. But you definately don't need the CP for the PsyWar to be good. You are using the SRD/Expanded Psionic Handbook and not the 3.0 version, right?
Thomar_of_Uointer
03-04-07, 11:34 PM ~Ok, whenIi first looked at the Psychic Warrior i was disapointed, it lacked BAB, HP, and had horrible powers available. Now with the Complete Psionics there is all this hype about it being very good and powerful.

~So all i want to know is that is it really that good? I lack the Complete Psionic and I'm wondering if i even should get it, is it worth the thirty dollars?

~Convince me, because I love the concept of the Psychic Warrior and am just wondering if I need to start crackin' open the ol' piggy bank.

You're either off your rocker, don't understand augmentation, or looking at the Psionics Handbook. Try the Expanded Psionics Handbook, also featured in the System Reference Document (http://d20srd.org).

Anyways, I wouldn't recommend Complete Psionic, mostly because Wizards had the nerve to put errata in it. However, the recent Mind's Eye articles (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a) have been referencing it, and I've been contemplating buying it just based on that.
Shado
03-05-07, 12:12 AM I really dig the Psy Warrior. Even with only the XPH.

Of the CPsi, not a lot is brought to the Psy Warrior. I think Link Power might be the biggest thing that Psy Warriors can get decent use of.

Using the latest Mind's Eye article, there's some interesting new options with the Mantles in extending the Psy Warrior's power selection.
InkBlot
03-05-07, 12:49 AM Complete Psionic has a few powers for archer and cavalier psywars, which is something that the XPH lacked. They also printed updates to some of my favorite psywar powers from The Mind's Eye.

Specifically, I realy like the following powers:
1st
Adrenaline Boost - swift action, Str and Dex boost
Extend Range - swift action, double weapon's range increment
Inspire Mount - mounted combat feat, plus a speed bonus for your mount
Urban Strider - very nice mobility bost

2nd
Extend Reach - nerfed over the Mind's Eye version (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827e), but looks cooler IMO
Perfect Archery - swift, don't provoke for making ranged attacks
Power Claws/Weapon - swift, next attack is Ghost Touch and bypasses all DR

3rd
Telekinetic Boomerang - swift, like the returning property but faster

4th
Psychokinetic Weapon - weapon flies and attacks on it's own, +wis to attack and damage
kyeudo
03-05-07, 04:14 PM Does anyone have a link to the King of Smack? isn't he a psywar that dishes out an obscene amount of damage in a single round? I think a look at that will covince the opening post that psywars are not weak.
Tempest Stormwind
03-05-07, 04:18 PM He's also a glass cannon with no reserve ammo. It's a nova build that is pure offense, with no actual defense (his saves are weak and he's completely reliant on buffs, being dispel-bait).

Plus his primary feat comes from using an odd rule on the Aberration type, not the psywar itself.
kyeudo
03-05-07, 04:41 PM He may be dispel bait, but no one can call him weak, at least not when he's tearing a Great Wyrm dragon apart.
Bacris
03-05-07, 04:44 PM A great wyrm dragon that doesn't dispel him should just hand over his treasure horde and kill itself :p
kelvinaw273
03-05-07, 05:11 PM I think that complete psionic did add some to the psychic warrior, mainly in terms of flexibility and adding more themes rather than power. You can now make a good undead killer with the psychic warrior, and do a few other tricks.

The class is good, it can self-buff and it can re-buff easily on a dispel.

I personally like the Monk/Fist of Zuoken concept, but straight psychic warrior is fine ... but like any class, you have to choose a focus for it, without which you lose a lot.
kyeudo
03-05-07, 05:54 PM A great wyrm dragon that doesn't dispel him should just hand over his treasure horde and kill itself :p

Well, I know dragons have crap for Dex, so a dragons inititive should be fairly low for its hitdice, so the King of Smack has a fairly good chance to win inititive on the dragon. Heck, he has a chance to surprise the dragon, maybe with a little party help to make things easier.
Bacris
03-05-07, 06:05 PM A great wyrm dragon that gets surprised deserves to get killed :p

Don't forget, you're talking about a 13th or higher spellcaster with an int of 18 or higher - and 13th only if it's a white dragon.

Any 18 Int 13th level spellcaster that gets caught without defenses up isn't being played as intelligent as their stats suggest ;)
Scion of Coldshard
03-05-07, 06:32 PM A great wyrm dragon that doesn't dispel him should just hand over his treasure horde and kill itself

I do not know what levels or dragons we are talking about here but it is possible that the psychic warriors manifester level is too high for a great wyrms dispel to effect.

Disjunction works of course but disjunction is so horribly overpowered and poorly designed that I would hope most dm's would disallow it or modify it heavily ;)

But even then not all great wyrms even have access to it even if it was an option.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
rice830 03-04-07, 09:20 PM	~Ok, whenIi first looked at the Psychic Warrior i was disapointed, it lacked BAB, HP, and had horrible powers available. Now with the Complete Psionics there is all this hype about it being very good and powerful. ~So all i want to know is that is it really that good? I lack the Complete Psionic and I'm wondering if i even should get it, is it worth the thirty dollars? ~Convince me, because I love the concept of the Psychic Warrior and am just wondering if I need to start crackin' open the ol' piggy bank.
emagius 03-04-07, 09:39 PM	The new feats and powers in Complete Psionic do not do much to strengthen the the Psychic Warrior. In fact, the errata from the book weakens the PsyWar.
rice830 03-04-07, 09:45 PM	~Really? Again, is there any proof to your explanation? There are a lot of people that are far too arrogant that wander Wizards, and not saying that you're one, I would just like any reason as to why the Psychic Warrior is weaker.
Bacris 03-04-07, 10:12 PM	Well, one of the PsyWar's better powers - Hostile Empathic Transfer, was nerfed in CPsi. Really, there is not much in CPsi for a psywar. None of the PrCs are easy a psywar to enter, most of the feats are racial, ardent / divine mind, mind blade, or astral construct related, and most of the new powers are ardent / divine mind / lurk powers. That being said, there is some new content for psywars in the book, but it's really not much.
AntiDjinn 03-04-07, 10:46 PM	The psychic warrior got a huge increase in playability going from the 3.0 PsiHB to the 3.5 XPH, but did not get much new material from Comp. Psi. The main bood granted to the PsW in 3.5 was the removal of psionic combat, which was equivalent to pulling a rather large pointy stick out of each PsW at character creation. In 3.5 you can even multiclass the PsW without risking being wiped out by three phrenic goldfish.
Fireclave 03-04-07, 10:55 PM	first looked at the Psychic Warrior i was disapointed :eek: it lacked BAB Actually, 3/4 Bab is good. Quite good. Monk-bard-cleric-druid good. Even better when you use your powers wisely, but I'll get to that. HP A d8 hit die is bad? It's only one step down from the fighter, which puts his hp on par with a monk, ranger, druid, etc. and had horrible powers available. Most definitely not. The PsyWar's power list is a themed list. Like the Bard illusions, the Hexblade's curses, the Duskblade's melee oriented spells, War Mage's direct damagers, the Ranger's nature spells, and the Beguiler's enchantments, the PsyWar's power list focuses on a single theme and compliments its other abilities. And for PsyWar's, that theme is self-buffs. The PsyWar's powers compliment what it can already do and makes it a highly customizable melee class. Want a tank? Take powers like Defensive Precognition, Force Shield, Thicken Skin, Concealing Amorpha, and Vigor to boost your saves, AC, and give yourself temp HP and concealment. Want a mobile fighter, take powers like Skate, Psionic Dimension Door, and Psionic Lion's Charge. Want to dish out more additional damage? Take powers like Beast Claws, Weapon of Energy, and True Venom. Want to be a back-up healer? Take Empathic Transfer, Body Adjustment, Body Purification, and Vigor. Want to be a Jedi? Telekinetic Force, Telekinetic Thrust, and Telekinetic Maneuver are for you. Also, remember that almost all powers can be augmented. Vigor, for example, grants a measly 5 temp HP with a minimum manifestion. A 10th level PsyWar can augment that to grant himself as much as 50 temp hp in one manifestion at the cost of only 10 PP, and those HP will last for a whole 10 minutes. Personally, I think that's just Super-Duper-Shweet. And if those powers still don't seem all that impressive, you could also take Extra Knowledge with one of your eight bonus feats and pick yourself up some powers from the Psion/Wilder list (psionic fly comes to mind). Or you could instead take feats like Speed of Thought, Up the Walls, Psionic Weapon, or Deep Impact (which goes great with Power Attack and the Offensive Precognition power for when you really need to beat AC while still dealing a sizable amount of damage). Really, the PsyWar's a great class, and I'd rather play it than a lot of other classes (looking at you fighter :P ). There are only two major weaknesses to the class: 1) MAD 2) Low PP The former shouldn't be a problem if you get some pretty good stat rolls, use a sizable point buy, or if you're used to playing gish-type characters like Fighter/Wizards, Paladins, ect. The latter shouldn't be a problem if you up your Wis with some stat enhancement items and think tactically about how you plan on using your PP. Edit: All of this is just using material available in the SRD. From what I hear, the CP wasn't all that good, but I haven't had the chance to do more than just glance over it. But you definately don't need the CP for the PsyWar to be good. You are using the SRD/Expanded Psionic Handbook and not the 3.0 version, right?
Thomar_of_Uointer 03-04-07, 11:34 PM	~Ok, whenIi first looked at the Psychic Warrior i was disapointed, it lacked BAB, HP, and had horrible powers available. Now with the Complete Psionics there is all this hype about it being very good and powerful. ~So all i want to know is that is it really that good? I lack the Complete Psionic and I'm wondering if i even should get it, is it worth the thirty dollars? ~Convince me, because I love the concept of the Psychic Warrior and am just wondering if I need to start crackin' open the ol' piggy bank. You're either off your rocker, don't understand augmentation, or looking at the Psionics Handbook. Try the Expanded Psionics Handbook, also featured in the System Reference Document (http://d20srd.org). Anyways, I wouldn't recommend Complete Psionic, mostly because Wizards had the nerve to put errata in it. However, the recent Mind's Eye articles (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a) have been referencing it, and I've been contemplating buying it just based on that.
Shado 03-05-07, 12:12 AM	I really dig the Psy Warrior. Even with only the XPH. Of the CPsi, not a lot is brought to the Psy Warrior. I think Link Power might be the biggest thing that Psy Warriors can get decent use of. Using the latest Mind's Eye article, there's some interesting new options with the Mantles in extending the Psy Warrior's power selection.
InkBlot 03-05-07, 12:49 AM	Complete Psionic has a few powers for archer and cavalier psywars, which is something that the XPH lacked. They also printed updates to some of my favorite psywar powers from The Mind's Eye. Specifically, I realy like the following powers: 1st Adrenaline Boost - swift action, Str and Dex boost Extend Range - swift action, double weapon's range increment Inspire Mount - mounted combat feat, plus a speed bonus for your mount Urban Strider - very nice mobility bost 2nd Extend Reach - nerfed over the Mind's Eye version (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040827e), but looks cooler IMO Perfect Archery - swift, don't provoke for making ranged attacks Power Claws/Weapon - swift, next attack is Ghost Touch and bypasses all DR 3rd Telekinetic Boomerang - swift, like the returning property but faster 4th Psychokinetic Weapon - weapon flies and attacks on it's own, +wis to attack and damage
kyeudo 03-05-07, 04:14 PM	Does anyone have a link to the King of Smack? isn't he a psywar that dishes out an obscene amount of damage in a single round? I think a look at that will covince the opening post that psywars are not weak.
Tempest Stormwind 03-05-07, 04:18 PM	He's also a glass cannon with no reserve ammo. It's a nova build that is pure offense, with no actual defense (his saves are weak and he's completely reliant on buffs, being dispel-bait). Plus his primary feat comes from using an odd rule on the Aberration type, not the psywar itself.
kyeudo 03-05-07, 04:41 PM	He may be dispel bait, but no one can call him weak, at least not when he's tearing a Great Wyrm dragon apart.
Bacris 03-05-07, 04:44 PM	A great wyrm dragon that doesn't dispel him should just hand over his treasure horde and kill itself :p
kelvinaw273 03-05-07, 05:11 PM	I think that complete psionic did add some to the psychic warrior, mainly in terms of flexibility and adding more themes rather than power. You can now make a good undead killer with the psychic warrior, and do a few other tricks. The class is good, it can self-buff and it can re-buff easily on a dispel. I personally like the Monk/Fist of Zuoken concept, but straight psychic warrior is fine ... but like any class, you have to choose a focus for it, without which you lose a lot.
kyeudo 03-05-07, 05:54 PM	A great wyrm dragon that doesn't dispel him should just hand over his treasure horde and kill itself :p Well, I know dragons have crap for Dex, so a dragons inititive should be fairly low for its hitdice, so the King of Smack has a fairly good chance to win inititive on the dragon. Heck, he has a chance to surprise the dragon, maybe with a little party help to make things easier.
Bacris 03-05-07, 06:05 PM	A great wyrm dragon that gets surprised deserves to get killed :p Don't forget, you're talking about a 13th or higher spellcaster with an int of 18 or higher - and 13th only if it's a white dragon. Any 18 Int 13th level spellcaster that gets caught without defenses up isn't being played as intelligent as their stats suggest ;)
Scion of Coldshard 03-05-07, 06:32 PM	A great wyrm dragon that doesn't dispel him should just hand over his treasure horde and kill itself I do not know what levels or dragons we are talking about here but it is possible that the psychic warriors manifester level is too high for a great wyrms dispel to effect. Disjunction works of course but disjunction is so horribly overpowered and poorly designed that I would hope most dm's would disallow it or modify it heavily ;) But even then not all great wyrms even have access to it even if it was an option.