Post/Author/DateTime	Post
MindFlayerZoidberg 06-16-07, 04:53 PM	I know how everyone on here discourages the 'Psionics is different variant', but I have been using it in my campaign and so far I have not really had any balancing issues. However my players are at 8th level, does it become a lot more difficult once creatures have SR and PR, is that the main issue or are there other things I should be aware of? However, I have built a roleplaying aspect into the game that I can use as an escape, one of the main quests is to discover an item that will 'balance' psionics and magic. It is the 'Annulus', however, if they use it against the evil villian Psionic Diety, it will also shatter the previous laws and bring about the Psionics-Magic Transparency. This can always be brought about sooner rather than later. I have no problems with something being a pain in the butt, just not a huge pain in the butt. Thank you for any suggestions and advice.
axenome 06-16-07, 05:07 PM	Deific knowledge + god powers can know it is coming and stop it before the deity is in any real danger. Annulus takes 10 rounds of concentration to complete the job. The only result of that particular plot twist that I can see is: Round one. Character starts concentrating on the Annulus within 100 feet of the deity. Deity responds, splats wielder. Round 2. Deity takes Annulus. Round 3.... Well, it doesn't really matter. If the deity wants to be alone with the character before splatting him, use Psionic Dim Door to character augmented as move action(Is a psionic deity, after all), then standard action to plane shift. By the time the party finds where they went, deity has already eaten the wielder. Likely is picking his teeth with the character's thigh bone and wearing the annulus like a jade ring. I dunno man it REALLY isn't likely to work- you might want the Psionics is Different rule to be linked to the Annulus instead of to the Deity, that way they can use it to kill something else evil and significant, like Vecna's Hand or the Staff of Ancient Penumbra or something like that, and simultaneously restore the balance or whatever.
InkBlot 06-16-07, 05:15 PM	Have you considered that he's not using the normal deiety rules? A lot of people like to reserve their gods as big plot devices. Literal deus ex machinae. You can't apply rules to a deus ex machinae.
MindFlayerZoidberg 06-16-07, 05:16 PM	I was going to modify the Annulus for this campaign giving it some more special properties, but I like that idea of having it against, perhaps, a minor magic deity. Thanks. That makes a lot more sense. Overall, I am trying out the 'Psionic Is Different' because my friend is going to use it for his campaign, and he is creating the world from the ground up, and been working on it since Jan. He really wants Psionics to be different, so I thought I would try it out first and see how difficult it was to manage. So far, it hasn't been that bad at all, but it seems like it should be getting a lot more of a headache from here on out (from what I have heard).
InkBlot 06-16-07, 05:21 PM	Is your friend playing in your campaign currently? If he is, keep playing with non-transparency right up to the point where he starts complaining. That way he can experiance first-hand what non-transparency is like.
MindFlayerZoidberg 06-16-07, 05:30 PM	Unfortunately no, but we might need another member, maybe I could. I just know it will be a lot harder in his world to undue the variant than in mine.
Tyroki 06-16-07, 07:11 PM	My DM is also using Psionics is different. Though, in our Party we have a fighter, a sorc, and me, the Psion. It would be better... If the Sorc hadn't chosen Grease at level one >.> We're level 2 now, and still all he can do is grease up the enemies. He refuses to believe that Grease sucks, but it's failed for 5 battles now. The DM's gotten to the point where he's throwing us two player challenges rather than three. Still... I'm the defense against Psionics, the other two are the defense against arcane. Shouldn't be a problem, neh?
crizhII 06-17-07, 02:42 AM	Grease is actually pretty good depending on how you use it. You'd get more out of it if you had a Rogue. If you don't have 5 ranks of Balance (and at that level who, apart from a rogue, does?) you are considered flat-footed and can only move at half speed. So thats no Dex to AC and you suffer an AoO every time you move and every time you get hit you have to make another balance check or fall prone. It's better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick at least...
Tyroki 06-17-07, 02:45 AM	Well thats just it. He keeps trying to make enemies slip, and they keep succeeding against it with ease. Not to mention it's kinda screwing up our tactics when he does use it...
InkBlot 06-17-07, 09:21 AM	Even if they make their balance checks and reflex save, they're still Balancing and they still lose their Dex to AC yadda yadda. It's a guaranteed debuff. And seriously, either your DM is fuding the roles or the Sorcerer has really bad luck. I've played an 18th level character with just four levels of psion, and he was still using grease to save the party's bacon so often that it isn't even funny. OK, maybe a little funny. It is grease after all.
Noodles2375 06-17-07, 03:49 PM	I know how everyone on here discourages the 'Psionics is different variant', but I have been using it in my campaign and so far I have not really had any balancing issues. However my players are at 8th level, does it become a lot more difficult once creatures have SR and PR, is that the main issue or are there other things I should be aware of? However, I have built a roleplaying aspect into the game that I can use as an escape, one of the main quests is to discover an item that will 'balance' psionics and magic. It is the 'Annulus', however, if they use it against the evil villian Psionic Diety, it will also shatter the previous laws and bring about the Psionics-Magic Transparency. This can always be brought about sooner rather than later. I have no problems with something being a pain in the butt, just not a huge pain in the butt. Thank you for any suggestions and advice. What I think you will find, as you level up, is that in the longrun psionics is different heavily favors arcane casters and in particular wizards. Wizards who have a limitless supply of potential spells, aren't bothered by the fact that they need a dispel psionics and dispel magic spell to deal with all of their dispelling woes. They simply memorize appropriately. BY contrast all core psionic classes have a limited power selection. Unless they want to be continually buying items to replicate dispel, or detect, or anti-magic effects, they will have to burn powers known on psionic equivalents of anti-magic field in addition to null psionic field to ensure that they can neutralize caster/manifester threats. Also, as stat-ted, there are A LOT of creatures that don't have PR that have SR. I would highly recommend your DM consider giving anything with SR an appropriately high PR or else your psion could concievably never roll a ML-check when he manifests on higher level creatures.
Kamin_Majere 06-17-07, 04:27 PM	I'm trying the non-transparancy trick in my world. But i've taken it a setp further, and ruled that no magic is transparant. Be it Incarnum, arcane, divine, psionic or monkeys. It puts a strain on the casters to have to be prepared for alot more when a simple globe of invulnerability only works verse a single form of magic. But it does help out the melee types as they dont really have to worry about it. The only big thing i'm having to do is restat some monsters for flavor. Some will only have arcane resistance, some will only have divine resistance, some psionic resistance, etc. The more powerful creatures will have more than one resistance and the most powerful creatures (and the gods) will have "Magic resistance" which will cover all workings of magic Now this might completely fall on its face the deeper i get into my world and campaign, but i'm willing to stick it out and see how everything goes
forsaken1111 06-18-07, 10:26 AM	Be it Incarnum, arcane, divine, psionic or monkeys. I would be interested in compaing notes with you on monkey magic. Specifically the finer nuances of metamonkey feats to alter and enhance monkeyspells.
Lycanthromancer 06-18-07, 10:29 AM	Well, we all know monkeys fling poo at people. Now we know they're trying to cast fireball... Maybe they're suffering from simian spell failure?
forsaken1111 06-18-07, 10:35 AM	Well, we all know monkeys fling poo at people. Now we know they're trying to cast fireball... Maybe they're suffering from simian spell failure? Or the monkey happens to be a level 2 fecalmancer.
Alarich 06-22-07, 11:00 AM	In my campaign ( that I'm running in Eberron ) I'm using trasparency, but with a "trick"... In Eberron psionics are found mostly in Sarlona, in which there're two nations ruled by psionics creatures ( Kalashtar in Adar and Inspired in Riedra ). They are the result of an ancient invasion from Dal Quor, the plane of Dreams, by psionics creatures called "Quori" ( I know that most of you already know eberron, but I write this things for people that doesn't know it ). In my campaign ( It's not official ) my players had discovered that in the time of invasion the giant of Xen'Drik was not prepared against psionics ( thus, in terms of mechanics, there wasn't magic-psionic transparency ). But more time passed, more the giants succeeded to adapt their magic to the powers of these creatures. Until when magic was completely adapted to contrast psionics ( and vice-versa for the Quori ). However, the giants' empire fell, but his knowledge wasn't forgot ( at least not completely ), and the races that begin to rule the world used shards of giant knowledge to create their magic. And so psionics-magic transparency was born :cool: Thus, there are some magic items that doesn't use transparency...
DarkTouch 06-27-07, 09:14 AM	Well, we all know monkeys fling poo at people. Now we know they're trying to cast fireball... Maybe they're suffering from simian spell failure? If they were flinging bat poo then it would work. They're just confused on the proper type of poo.