Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Aoth 04-07-08, 02:06 AM	I am playing a Psion Egoist who is the sole healer of our party. I am looking to take a Prestige class to improve my ability to withstand combat without weakening my powers known and power points too significantly. I am here to ask for suggestions of Prestige classes I could take which would meet my requirement. Please feel free to list any thing regardless of which class it is supposedly designed for. As we all know where there is a will there is a way to alter things to fit. Any help provided will be greatly appreciated! Aoth
Tempest Stormwind 04-07-08, 02:30 AM	I am playing a Psion Egoist who is the sole healer of our party. I am looking to take a Prestige class to improve my ability to withstand combat without weakening my powers known and power points too significantly. What's that? There, on the horizon! It's the sangehirn! (http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625c) And he's come to save the day! Seriously, it's a perfect fit: d6 HD, 9/10 manifesting, 3/4 base attack, easy (but not universal) requirements, healing class features, passive fast healing and DR (at high levels, the highest always-on fast healing in the game, supplemented by good DR), and Healing Touch (heal an ally with your Body Adjustment). Sangehirns are impossibly hard to kill and they make sure they spread that trait around. Just be sure to stagger your levels such that when your manifester level is odd, you're taking Egoist levels and when it's even, you're taking Sangehirn levels (i.e. if your ML is 8 and would go to 9 with either class, take Egoist). This way, you get around the one drawback to the sangehirn (that it forces you to choose powers off of its limited list).
InkBlot 04-07-08, 02:30 AM	You need the Sangehirn (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625c). How does 3/4 BAB, permanent DR 5/--, and constant Fast Healing 3 sound? It also lets you use your healing powers more effectively.
Aoth 04-07-08, 02:44 AM	Thank you both. I will definitely consider the Sangehirn, I specifically liked the idea about altering the class with levels of Egoist. I was originally a more combat oriented character with Inertial Armor, Force Screen, and Expanded Knowledge of Claws of the Beast. As we played since we had no cleric I took powers to enable me to function as the healer of the group. We added Cure Light Wounds as a psionic power as described on this site under the psionics only thread I believe. I also took Empathic Transfer, Body Adjustment and swapped my 5th level feat with the special ability from minds eye called True Healer which gave me the Life Mantle and access to those powers to choose from. So I added From the Brink. I guess what I am looking for in a class is psion level progression with a slightly better combat abilities which would have to include defense or hits since other wise I drop quickly. Aoth
Tiarn 04-07-08, 05:56 AM	I didn't see vigor mentioned. Do you make use of this power? If not, you most definitely should. ;)
Katash 04-07-08, 08:03 AM	Dude, simple way to be a good healer is to learn the mend wounds power. Slayer give Full BAB with only one loss of manifesting or you could try use this Prc and build the Iron Mind Disciple and add TOB goodnes, it rocks: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?p=15476116#post15476116 Cheers. Free repeated Disintegrates, up to 8th level Diamond Mind, Iron Heart Manuveres, BAB 17 med HP, 8th level powers (can augment for 9th)
GuyrtheadamantineOne 04-07-08, 10:28 AM	It's the sangehirn! And he's come to save the day! I just felt the urge to yell: It's Mighty Mouse and friends! For those who don't know Mighty Mouse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mighty_mouse) then get a life.[/sarcasm, but seriously, click the link!]
Aoth 04-07-08, 11:51 AM	Not only do I know who Mighty Mouse is, I am a life long fan of Underdog and Kukla, Fran, and Ollie. Aoth
InkBlot 04-07-08, 01:21 PM	We added Cure Light Wounds as a psionic power as described on this site under the psionics only thread I believe. Oh! Is it Cure Wounds, with an augment to heal an additional 1d8 + 2 per two additional power points you spend? It might be my conversion, which I repost every chance I get, since it's also a way to show off psionic's mechanical elegance.
Aoth 04-07-08, 01:51 PM	Yeah not sure which post I got them from or who was the poster. I copied the Cure Light Wounds (A) at 1st, Mass Cure Light Wounds (A) at 5th, Heal (A) at 6th, and Mass Heal (A) 8th. My DM decided to allow these as powers I am able to choose from as an Egoist. I have looked at the Sangehirn and while it is a very decent class, I wonder why there is no real advantage to take the class for the first level. I loose a level of casting and do not really gain any benefit other than Healing Focus? I do not know about your games but in mine Heal, the skill, is only marginally used to determine if someone has something wrong with them other than copious amounts of blood flowing from their body. I like the Diamond Dragon class but am aggravated with the missing portion which states what weapon and armor proficiencies are or are not gained. I also like the Illithid Slayer class since I know our main enemy is an Illithid and we are in a dungeon where there are dwarven statues with tentacles for beards, but I would need to wait until 9th level to take that class from a pure Psion since I need a +4 BAB.
Tempest Stormwind 04-07-08, 02:05 PM	With Empathic Transfer, Vigor, and Share Pain (with your psicrystal, who also benefits from your Vigor powers), you don't need Cure Wounds. Also, healing in-combat is horribly sub-optimal (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=900334). Focus on killing things; between Empathic Transfer (ideally with cost reducing equipment) and the sangehirn's fast healing, you'll heal up very quickly. Another interesting option is the Empathic Resistance power in Untapped Potential. It's a Telepath power, so you'd need Expanded Knowledge to get it *, but it's capable of blocking the damage to yourself from Empathic Transfer. * This is deliberate, since most of the empathic-damage powers are telepathy. The only class to get both this power and Empathic Transfer is the Society Mind, since it's all about interconnection and can make a damn good healer in its own right.
InkBlot 04-07-08, 02:35 PM	I have looked at the Sangehirn and while it is a very decent class, I wonder why there is no real advantage to take the class for the first level. I loose a level of casting and do not really gain any benefit other than Healing Focus? I do not know about your games but in mine Heal, the skill, is only marginally used to determine if someone has something wrong with them other than copious amounts of blood flowing from their body. Heal is fantastically useful for curing diseases and poisons. You make a Heal check against the save DC of the disease/poison, and use that check if it's better than the patient's saving throw (check your PHB for more information). Besides the fact that it's much much easier to increase your skills than your saves (even a cross-class skill is as good as a good save), you don't fail on a natural 1 with skill checks. Of course, I must mention the caveat that this skill use might never come up if your DM never uses poisons and diseases. Psionic prestige classes are balanced differently from Arcane or Divine prestige classes. Arcane/Divine PrCs are "balanced" with the assumption that taking a prestige class should make you better than the base class without giving up anything in return (or giving up only trivial things, like familiar progression). Psionic prestige classes are balanced with the assumption that the best all-around Psion should be a 20th level psion, and allow you to excel in one area at the cost of slowing your progression in other areas.
Katash 04-07-08, 03:14 PM	I like the Diamond Dragon class but am aggravated with the missing portion which states what weapon and armor proficiencies are or are not gained. I also like the Illithid Slayer class since I know our main enemy is an Illithid and we are in a dungeon where there are dwarven statues with tentacles for beards, but I would need to wait until 9th level to take that class from a pure Psion since I need a +4 BAB. Did you mean the Iron Mind Disciple? Doesn't gain any Prof (you'll really need a level of Warblade to enter. Losing the ML doesn't hurt because with Practised manifester you can augment to 9th. Losing the PP doesn't hurt, because with such excellent manuveres you aren't manifesting as often. I generally use Gtr Isightful Strike (over 100pts of damage don't ya know) and AOB (200 plus) for Mooks and semi-tough leutenants and save my PP to unload on the BBEG. Look at the Char build, it details how to setup a sick AOB and has power tricks combos to get the most out of the char. Does metamorphing/metamorphic transfer+manuveres sound good? If being good a melle while keeping your manifesting up appeals this rocks.
Aoth 04-07-08, 03:24 PM	Where is this Warblade? I have not seen this class. Aoth
Tempest Stormwind 04-07-08, 03:40 PM	Where is this Warblade? I have not seen this class. Aoth It's everything the fighter should have been from day 1. It's in the Book of Nine Swords, but was previewed here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060802a). The crusader (same book) is the best tank class ever published, is what the paladin should have been, and can serve as a decent backup healer (or primary healer if you know what you're doing and actually taking down the enemy quickly; see here (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=900334)).
InkBlot 04-07-08, 03:45 PM	Warblade is one of the three classes from Tome Of Battle: The Book Of Nine Swords. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060802a&page=2) Warblades are similar to Fighters, but much more well designed (like how Psions are similar to Sorcerers). Warblades use a system of martial strikes, boosts, counters, and stances. (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20061225a) This system, which is also used by Crusaders and Swordsages, was designed to make melee characters more fun by giving them something fun to do every round (instead of full attacking every turn), and giving them a wider range of tactical options. In fact, the rules actively discourage the use of the same maneuver over and over again. Strike maneuvers take either a standard action or a full round action, and involve directly attacking your enemy. Strikes either give you a bonus, give the enemy you strike a penalty of some kind, or allow you to attack in a new way (e.g., making a Concentration check to ignore your foes Dex bonus to AC, or leaping into the air to come down on your foe with a mighty blow). Strikes require you to make an attack, sometimes multiple attacks, but they cannot be combined with a full attack, AoO, or anything like that. Boost maneuvers take only a swift action. They give you some benefit, sometimes even allowing you to take a specific extra action, but the benefit never lasts longer than 1 round. Counter maneuvers take only an immediate action, meaning you can use them on your enemy's turn, potentially even interrupting her attacks. Not all counter maneuvers are attacks. Some allow you to replace your AC with different checks or rolls, some help your saving throws, some allow you to move to follow fleeing enemies, some let you redirect enemy attacks. There is a wide range of benefits and effects covered under counters. The benefit of a counter maneuver never lasts longer than 1 round. Stances require only a swift action to enter or change, but last as long as you want (assuming nobody tries to make you immobile). You can only be in one stance at a time, logically. Stances have a wide variety of benefits, from speed boosts, to increasing your reach when you make an attack on your turn, to increasing your weapon damage, to increasing your AC every time somebody fails to hit you (but it resets ever round). Warblade maneuvers and stances are very Barbarian/Fighter/Marshal-esque. Swordsages have access to disciplines which are more Monk/Assassin/Swashbuckler-esque. Crusaders have access to disciplines which are Paladin/Knight/Fighter/Marshal-esque. However, each class is incredibly flexible at character creation. You can use any of them to create dozens of wildly different character types (potentially even replacing every 3.5 martial class ever published). On top of that, any class, even outside of these three, can use the Martial Study feat (a fighter feat) to pick up a maneuver.
GuyrtheadamantineOne 04-07-08, 05:16 PM	The praise on the Warblade shown here just inspired me this song. It's based on ''The Candy Man Can (http://youtube.com/watch?v=gq6cWO7FgNk)'' Who can take an encounter, swinging easy through Cover it with strikes and a boost or two The Martial Adept can, oh the Martial Adept can The Martial Adept can 'cause he mixes it with love and makes the monsters blood flood Who can take a longsword, poke it in a Dretch Soak it in its guts and make a pile of demon flesh The Martial Adept can, the Martial Adept can The Martial Adept can 'cause he mixes it with love and makes the monsters blood flood The Martial Adept makes every strike he knows stylised and dramatic Now you talk about your melee wishes, you can even beat some wizards Oh, who slaughters the Manual, kicking beyond dream Eradicate the Drow and laugh up at the screams The Martial Adept can, oh the Martial Adept can The Martial Adept can 'cause he mixes it with love and makes the monsters blood flood The Martial Adept makes every strike he knows stylised and dramatic Now you talk about your melee wishes, you can even beat some wizards Yeah, yeah, yeah Who slaughters the Manual, kicking beyond dream Eradicate the Drow and laugh up at the screams The Martial Adept, the Martial Adept can The Martial Adept can 'cause he mixes it with love and makes the monsters blood flood Yes, the Martial Adept can 'cause he mixes it with love and makes the monsters blood flood a- Martial Adept, a-Martial Adept, a-Martial Adept Martial Adept, a-Martial Adept, a-Martial Adept Martial Adept, a-Martial Adept, a-Martial Adept It ain't perfect but I had to share it.:D
Ryuu_Tenshi 04-07-08, 06:07 PM	The praise on the Warblade shown here just inspired me this song. It's based on ''The Candy Man Can (http://youtube.com/watch?v=gq6cWO7FgNk)'' Who can take an encounter, swinging easy through Cover it with strikes and a boost or two The Martial Adept can, oh the Martial Adept can The Martial Adept can 'cause he mixes it with love and makes the monsters blood flood Who can take a longsword, poke it in a Dretch Soak it in its guts and make a pile of demon flesh The Martial Adept can, the Martial Adept can The Martial Adept can 'cause he mixes it with love and makes the monsters blood flood The Martial Adept makes every strike he knows stylised and dramatic Now you talk about your melee wishes, you can even beat some wizards Oh, who slaughters the Manual, kicking beyond dream Eradicate the Drow and laugh up at the screams The Martial Adept can, oh the Martial Adept can The Martial Adept can 'cause he mixes it with love and makes the monsters blood flood The Martial Adept makes every strike he knows stylised and dramatic Now you talk about your melee wishes, you can even beat some wizards Yeah, yeah, yeah Who slaughters the Manual, kicking beyond dream Eradicate the Drow and laugh up at the screams The Martial Adept, the Martial Adept can The Martial Adept can 'cause he mixes it with love and makes the monsters blood flood Yes, the Martial Adept can 'cause he mixes it with love and makes the monsters blood flood a- Martial Adept, a-Martial Adept, a-Martial Adept Martial Adept, a-Martial Adept, a-Martial Adept Martial Adept, a-Martial Adept, a-Martial Adept It ain't perfect but I had to share it.:D My motivational poster senses are tingling.
Lycanthromancer 04-07-08, 07:11 PM	That's because your awesomeness-sensing-neurons are highly-tuned. http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g111/Lycanthromancer/BruceLee.jpg
Aoth 04-07-08, 08:37 PM	OK I currently have a 5th level Psion with the following stats, abilities, and feats. Str 17, Dex 16, Con 17, Int 18, Wis 15, Cha 13 (Before you ask we still roll our stats) Mind Over Body (Regional) Rapid Metabolism (Psion 1) Expanded Knowledge (Level 3) - Claws of the Beast True Healer (Alternate Class Feature in place of Psion 5 Feat) Power Points 25 Bonus Points 10 Racial Bonus 2 1st - Inertial Armor, Force Screen, Mind Thrust, Detect Psionics, Cure Light Wounds 2nd - Animal Affinity, Biofeedback, Empathic Transfer, Concealing Amorpha, From the Brink 3rd - Body Adjustment Originally I would turn on Armor and Shield and rush into combat manifesting the claws as I attack. At 4th level I took healing powers ans well as at 5th level to fill in for the non-existent healer in out party. Now I am trying to maintain my ability to heal while regaining the ability to jump back into combat to reduce the amount of damage the rest of the party receives. Unfortunately even if I spend 5 points on Armor and 5 points on Shield and 5 points on my weapon this leaves me only 17 points with which to heal the party after a battle. To add to my woes, I only have 34 hit points. This means after a hit or two I am in definite trouble. The last piece of the puzzle is that my DM likes to hit the party CR8 with multiple CR10 mobs at the same time and almost without fail maximizes their hit points. So I need to find a way to improve my armor without spending power points, and my ability to last in combat without loosing too many manifester levels. Aoth
hogarth 04-08-08, 09:56 AM	I'll add my vote for a Psychic Reformation to replace some powers with Vigor and Share Pain. As far as PrC's go, there are a few interesting ones in Hyperconscious. Note that all the ones listed here (except for Ghostbreaker) lose a manifester level at level 1 and at the final level (if you take it): Crystal Proselyte - Your body gradually turns to crystal, increasing your natural armor along the way. You also get a couple of bonus feats and some psi-like abilities involving light/sound. d4 HP, poor BAB Psychic Chirurgeon - You learn psionic equivalents of Cure Serious Wounds and Heal along with a couple of other minor powers. d8 HP, medium BAB Chakra Savant - You gain a number of powers based on chakras, including the ability to meditate for 10 minutes to restore power points and hit points. d4 HP (for a psion), medium BAB Spirituel - You gain a couple of extra powers known of each level you can manifest, and you get the ability at level 4 to give yourself some nice boosts (3 + Int bonus) times per day, (7 + Int bonus) times per day at level 7. d6 HP, medium BAB Ghostbreaker - You gain the ability to turn undead and some other undead-fighting abilities. d8 HP, full BAB There are other PrC's in the book, but those seemed to be the most fitting.
Aoth 04-08-08, 04:23 PM	Thanks for the great suggestions. *I really like the Chakra Savant. *Not really sure about the Crystal Proselyte since I have already gone through one ceremony to become and Elan. *Would definately consider the Ghostbreaker if another party member was not converting to Paladin. I do not want to step on his thunder. *Kinda like the Plangent though.
hogarth 04-08-08, 04:41 PM	Thanks for the great suggestions. *I really like the Chakra Savant. *Not really sure about the Crystal Proselyte since I have already gone through one ceremony to become and Elan. *Would definately consider the Ghostbreaker if another party member was not converting to Paladin. I do not want to step on his thunder. *Kinda like the Plangent though. The Plangent class is pretty bad, IMO. I'd never give up 2 manifester levels in exchange for a +2 shortsword and the ability get +1 on power DCs N times per day.
Aoth 04-08-08, 04:53 PM	Yeah that is true. I really like the Diamond Dragon and the Illithid Slayer classes. I am considering taking 2 levels of Psychic Warrior to meet the requirements of the Illithis slayer. The Diamond Dragon is nice in that I gain some psionic powers per say that replicate a dragons abilities. +3 (total) to Physical stats of my choice. Sleep/Paralysis negation. 2nd Level Claws which augment. 4th Level Breath Weapon. 6th Level Wings with Perfect Maneuver. 8th Level a Tail which Augments. 10th Level a Fear Aura which Augments. The Illithid Slayer is nice because I know we will be facing them in the current Dungeon Crawl we are involved in. And the abilities are not bad at all. Aoth
calronmoonflower 04-08-08, 05:46 PM	Yeah that is true. I really like the Diamond Dragon and the Illithid Slayer classes. I am considering taking 2 levels of Psychic Warrior to meet the requirements of the Illithis slayer. Ah... +1.5 from 3 psion levels + 1.5 from 2 psychic warrior levels still comes up short even if you are using fractional base attack bonuses. I suggest one level in ranger. You get the same attack bonus, the required feat, and you do not stagger you manifestation as much. If you want take a level in ghost breaker at 6th and illithid slayer's prerequisites should be met without the loss of another manifester level. You can even alternate between the levels if you want.
Aoth 04-09-08, 06:05 PM	Actually I already have 5 Psion levels and was considering taking 1 more and 2 Psychic Warrior levels to gain the feat I need plus a couple my DM wants me to have along with the extra +1 for a total BAB of +4. Aoth
PhaedrusXY 04-09-08, 10:49 PM	Ask about using retraining or psychic reformation. Don't multiclass into PW.