the soulknife: psionic? [Archive] - Wizards Community

the soulknife: psionic? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
sin shai, nagai jedi
04-26-08, 02:49 AM ok...its a psionic class right?

but how? the only thing that seems to be psionic to me is that first level ability called "wild talent" and the "psychic strike", whats stoping a person from changeing wild talent to arcane attunment (dusk blade thing) and psychic strike to "arcane strike" and makeing it an arcane class? or changeing wild talent to martial study and psychic strike to Ki strike and now its a martial class, hell with alittle thought it could be made into a divine class. and its not like it takes much reflavor of the class to work any of these.

"you form a blade of energy with the excess arcane energy you have in your body"

"you form a blade of your very Ki to fight with."

"your faith in your god manafests as a blade to cut down your enemys."

*sigh* i'm just frustrated with the class, and my group. i really want to play one, but 1.) they suck and 2.) my group wont allow psionics into the game because they dont understand the rules for them and dont want to take the time to learn. i could deal with the whole "sucking" part, but its driveing me nuts that they wont allow it just because its "psionic" in name, and very little else.
Tobias_Bluesummers
04-26-08, 10:24 AM Well, a soulknife is probably the easiest psionic class to introduce into a group that doesn't want to learn psionics. Like you said, they really don't have anything that's definitely psionic, so you could change the flavor of the class and have an arcane or martial type of soulknife.

Just remember by doing that, you also cut yourself off from the psionic feats, since if you change the wild talent you really aren't psionic anymore.
AntiDjinn
04-26-08, 08:52 PM Being psionic means a soulknife can take psionic feats such as Deep Impact and Psionic Weapon. Since the character can achieve psionic focus, he can actually make use of these feats. If he uses some other means to generate a force blade then he can't use these feat unless you care to rewrite all of them and come up with an alternate mechanic.

For groups using the Mindscapes psionic combat system (in Hyperconscious, by the author of the XPH, but published by Malhavoc press) the soulknife is as good as the psion at psionic combat.
InkBlot
04-26-08, 10:32 PM The Soulknife is psionic because Psylocke (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ca/Psylocke-aoa.jpg) is psionic. Psylocke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psylocke) is an XMen character, and the Soulknife class is transparently designed to allow players to mimic her (especially the original 3.0 prestige class version of the Soulknife).
sin shai, nagai jedi
04-27-08, 01:59 AM The Soulknife is psionic because Psylocke (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ca/Psylocke-aoa.jpg) is psionic. Psylocke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psylocke) is an XMen character, and the Soulknife class is transparently designed to allow players to mimic her (especially the original 3.0 prestige class version of the Soulknife).

well, it fits kuwabara from yu yu hakusho quite well to boot. almost perfectly actually. and the characters from that show are (basicly)psionic as well.
JohnnyArkham
04-27-08, 02:11 PM And the Cyberknights from Rifts...and the cool lightsabery effect...and prolly a dozen other fantasy and scifi concepts. Conceptually, the soulknife is similar to a lot, much like many of the other DnD classes. Sort of the point, I suppose.
InkBlot
04-27-08, 03:27 PM Those are good points, except for -
the cool lightsabery effect.

The mindblade is not a lightsaber. A lightsaber is a piece of equipment. It can be disarmed, or stolen. It can be made by one person and used by another. If it's broken it takes more than 6 seconds to repair/recreate it. Lightsaber blades all generally look the same, with the only differences being length and color. A lightsaber, as far as I know, isn't a metaphysical conduit which it's wielder uses to deliver psionic energies directly to the mind of her enemy.

Other than that, good points all around!

edit: In 3.0, the big feature of the Soulknife prestige class was the ability to channel powers through your mindblade. You could bypass all of a creature's normal defenses if you could jam your mindblade into it's head. This is also what Psylocke primarily uses her mindblade for.
CrimsonDeath
04-27-08, 05:01 PM So, 3.0 psionics wasn't all crap. Only most of it.
The_Mess
04-27-08, 08:22 PM For the record, lightsabers are a conduit for the user's soul-energy, in canon. That's why making your own lightsaber is a ritual of passage among the Jedi, you will never be fully proficient using a saber someone else has made.
Eldritch_Lord
04-27-08, 08:28 PM For the record, lightsabers are a conduit for the user's soul-energy, in canon. That's why making your own lightsaber is a ritual of passage among the Jedi, you will never be fully proficient using a saber someone else has made.

Mmm...sorta. The construction process itself is a ritual of passage, as (A) to complete it you must have fine control of the Force and yourself, and (B) you learn about yourself, the Force, and the lightsaber in the process. However, you can use another's lightsaber just as well as your own. See the Rogue Squadron series, with Corran Horn using a discovered lightsaber, for one example.

[/derail]
JohnnyArkham
04-27-08, 10:54 PM Nobody said a mindblade was a lightsaber, least of all me. Lightsabery effect was the Whedonesque phrasing I used. I understand your point, just hoping my own was not misrepresented
CrimsonDeath
04-28-08, 02:43 AM Mmm...sorta. The construction process itself is a ritual of passage, as (A) to complete it you must have fine control of the Force and yourself, and (B) you learn about yourself, the Force, and the lightsaber in the process. However, you can use another's lightsaber just as well as your own. See the Rogue Squadron series, with Corran Horn using a discovered lightsaber, for one example.

[/derail]

And, in canon, General Grievous uses multiple lightsabers, and I'm not sure he's even Force-sensitive.
InkBlot
04-28-08, 10:57 AM Not to mention the fact that he took those lightsabers from Jedi he had killed. Awesomely (http://youtube.com/watch?v=P_wfL_9KDZE).
The_Mess
04-28-08, 01:23 PM I cannot be wrong, therefore canon must be mistaken. : - )
CrimsonDeath
04-28-08, 01:43 PM While I'm all for saying George Lucas was wrong about "Star Wars", I think "Clone Wars" got General Grievous about right.
JulesCARV
04-29-08, 01:46 AM Well, maybe a soulknife is a bit more like the schwartz sword power in Space Balls than the lightsaber in Star Wars. Of course, it looked early on like the rings were necessary for the lightsaber-type effect, but Yogurt revealed that they were just bupkis found in the bottom of a Cracker Jack box.
sin shai, nagai jedi
04-30-08, 01:29 AM Well, maybe a soulknife is a bit more like the schwartz sword power in Space Balls than the lightsaber in Star Wars. Of course, it looked early on like the rings were necessary for the lightsaber-type effect, but Yogurt revealed that they were just bupkis found in the bottom of a Cracker Jack box.

yes, you are completely right, and you win.

though...soulknives cant lift things with theyre minds...

but then again there are "rings of telekenisis" aren't there? alittle reflavoring of where the blade comes from and BAM! you have yourselves dark helmet as a villan.

anyway, more on topic, so soulknives can take psionic feats, but are there any that the soulknife can really make use of? other than the ones for shapeing the mind blade anyway.
CrimsonDeath
04-30-08, 02:59 AM though...soulknives cant lift things with theyre minds...

Hidden Talent: Far Hand
Sinfire Titan
04-30-08, 03:08 AM Those are good points, except for -

The mindblade is not a lightsaber. A lightsaber is a piece of equipment. It can be disarmed, or stolen. It can be made by one person and used by another. If it's broken it takes more than 6 seconds to repair/recreate it. Lightsaber blades all generally look the same, with the only differences being length and color. A lightsaber, as far as I know, isn't a metaphysical conduit which it's wielder uses to deliver psionic energies directly to the mind of her enemy.

This is true. They printed an offical Lightsaber for DnD in the MiC anyway.
InkBlot
04-30-08, 01:30 PM They did? What page? What was it called? I have the MIC, but it's so damn dense. Trying to find anything in there without at least a name is like trying to find a needle in a hay stack.
CrimsonDeath
04-30-08, 02:40 PM The thing really needs an index by body slot.
Sinfire Titan
04-30-08, 03:20 PM They did? What page? What was it called? I have the MIC, but it's so damn dense. Trying to find anything in there without at least a name is like trying to find a needle in a hay stack.

Rod of Force, page 174. 5 times/day, 10 rounds/use, it makes a +1 Brilliant Energy Longsword as a Swift action.

Using the rules for enhancing existing items, it is possible to make that same item your primary weapon.
Mercurius
05-01-08, 11:54 AM anyway, more on topic, so soulknives can take psionic feats, but are there any that the soulknife can really make use of? other than the ones for shapeing the mind blade anyway.

Speed of Thought, Up the Walls, Psionic Weapon, Greater Psionic Weapon, Deep Impact, Psionic Shot, Greater Psionic Shot, Psionic Charge...

Yeah, there's lots of feats that a Soulknife could benefit from. Speed of Thought, IMHO, almost makes being a psionic character worth it all by itself.
InkBlot
05-01-08, 02:43 PM They get Speed Of Thought for free at 6th level already.
AntiDjinn
05-01-08, 02:56 PM With a 3/4 BAB sometimes Deep Impact is the only way you hit a heavily armored opponent.
SlanderPanic
05-01-08, 07:40 PM You don't think the soulknife is very psionic? I ask you to...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v518/Slanderpanic/quato_29.jpg

Open your miiiiind...

The soulknife uses the power of his mind in a different way than manifesters do, but that doesn't mean his power doesn't come from the same source. This isn't any different than, say, a creature using a spell-like ability.
Mercurius
05-01-08, 08:58 PM They get Speed Of Thought for free at 6th level already.

D'oh!
kelvinaw273
05-03-08, 01:43 PM Thing is, you can regard psionics as just a different form of magic ... you don't NEED to re-justify it, although in a normal-magic-only environment you might change a few details it would work OK.
Ocom
05-03-08, 05:32 PM kelvinaw273 has the right idea. Unless you are already using psionics or plan to incorporate it you could just treat the soulknife's abilities as arcane based.
Also, a lot of off-topic discussion here.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
sin shai, nagai jedi 04-26-08, 02:49 AM	ok...its a psionic class right? but how? the only thing that seems to be psionic to me is that first level ability called "wild talent" and the "psychic strike", whats stoping a person from changeing wild talent to arcane attunment (dusk blade thing) and psychic strike to "arcane strike" and makeing it an arcane class? or changeing wild talent to martial study and psychic strike to Ki strike and now its a martial class, hell with alittle thought it could be made into a divine class. and its not like it takes much reflavor of the class to work any of these. "you form a blade of energy with the excess arcane energy you have in your body" "you form a blade of your very Ki to fight with." "your faith in your god manafests as a blade to cut down your enemys." sigh i'm just frustrated with the class, and my group. i really want to play one, but 1.) they suck and 2.) my group wont allow psionics into the game because they dont understand the rules for them and dont want to take the time to learn. i could deal with the whole "sucking" part, but its driveing me nuts that they wont allow it just because its "psionic" in name, and very little else.
Tobias_Bluesummers 04-26-08, 10:24 AM	Well, a soulknife is probably the easiest psionic class to introduce into a group that doesn't want to learn psionics. Like you said, they really don't have anything that's definitely psionic, so you could change the flavor of the class and have an arcane or martial type of soulknife. Just remember by doing that, you also cut yourself off from the psionic feats, since if you change the wild talent you really aren't psionic anymore.
AntiDjinn 04-26-08, 08:52 PM	Being psionic means a soulknife can take psionic feats such as Deep Impact and Psionic Weapon. Since the character can achieve psionic focus, he can actually make use of these feats. If he uses some other means to generate a force blade then he can't use these feat unless you care to rewrite all of them and come up with an alternate mechanic. For groups using the Mindscapes psionic combat system (in Hyperconscious, by the author of the XPH, but published by Malhavoc press) the soulknife is as good as the psion at psionic combat.
InkBlot 04-26-08, 10:32 PM	The Soulknife is psionic because Psylocke (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ca/Psylocke-aoa.jpg) is psionic. Psylocke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psylocke) is an XMen character, and the Soulknife class is transparently designed to allow players to mimic her (especially the original 3.0 prestige class version of the Soulknife).
sin shai, nagai jedi 04-27-08, 01:59 AM	The Soulknife is psionic because Psylocke (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/ca/Psylocke-aoa.jpg) is psionic. Psylocke (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psylocke) is an XMen character, and the Soulknife class is transparently designed to allow players to mimic her (especially the original 3.0 prestige class version of the Soulknife). well, it fits kuwabara from yu yu hakusho quite well to boot. almost perfectly actually. and the characters from that show are (basicly)psionic as well.
JohnnyArkham 04-27-08, 02:11 PM	And the Cyberknights from Rifts...and the cool lightsabery effect...and prolly a dozen other fantasy and scifi concepts. Conceptually, the soulknife is similar to a lot, much like many of the other DnD classes. Sort of the point, I suppose.
InkBlot 04-27-08, 03:27 PM	Those are good points, except for - the cool lightsabery effect. The mindblade is not a lightsaber. A lightsaber is a piece of equipment. It can be disarmed, or stolen. It can be made by one person and used by another. If it's broken it takes more than 6 seconds to repair/recreate it. Lightsaber blades all generally look the same, with the only differences being length and color. A lightsaber, as far as I know, isn't a metaphysical conduit which it's wielder uses to deliver psionic energies directly to the mind of her enemy. Other than that, good points all around! edit: In 3.0, the big feature of the Soulknife prestige class was the ability to channel powers through your mindblade. You could bypass all of a creature's normal defenses if you could jam your mindblade into it's head. This is also what Psylocke primarily uses her mindblade for.
CrimsonDeath 04-27-08, 05:01 PM	So, 3.0 psionics wasn't all crap. Only most of it.
The_Mess 04-27-08, 08:22 PM	For the record, lightsabers are a conduit for the user's soul-energy, in canon. That's why making your own lightsaber is a ritual of passage among the Jedi, you will never be fully proficient using a saber someone else has made.
Eldritch_Lord 04-27-08, 08:28 PM	For the record, lightsabers are a conduit for the user's soul-energy, in canon. That's why making your own lightsaber is a ritual of passage among the Jedi, you will never be fully proficient using a saber someone else has made. Mmm...sorta. The construction process itself is a ritual of passage, as (A) to complete it you must have fine control of the Force and yourself, and (B) you learn about yourself, the Force, and the lightsaber in the process. However, you can use another's lightsaber just as well as your own. See the Rogue Squadron series, with Corran Horn using a discovered lightsaber, for one example. [/derail]
JohnnyArkham 04-27-08, 10:54 PM	Nobody said a mindblade was a lightsaber, least of all me. Lightsabery effect was the Whedonesque phrasing I used. I understand your point, just hoping my own was not misrepresented
CrimsonDeath 04-28-08, 02:43 AM	Mmm...sorta. The construction process itself is a ritual of passage, as (A) to complete it you must have fine control of the Force and yourself, and (B) you learn about yourself, the Force, and the lightsaber in the process. However, you can use another's lightsaber just as well as your own. See the Rogue Squadron series, with Corran Horn using a discovered lightsaber, for one example. [/derail] And, in canon, General Grievous uses multiple lightsabers, and I'm not sure he's even Force-sensitive.
InkBlot 04-28-08, 10:57 AM	Not to mention the fact that he took those lightsabers from Jedi he had killed. Awesomely (http://youtube.com/watch?v=P_wfL_9KDZE).
The_Mess 04-28-08, 01:23 PM	I cannot be wrong, therefore canon must be mistaken. : - )
CrimsonDeath 04-28-08, 01:43 PM	While I'm all for saying George Lucas was wrong about "Star Wars", I think "Clone Wars" got General Grievous about right.
JulesCARV 04-29-08, 01:46 AM	Well, maybe a soulknife is a bit more like the schwartz sword power in Space Balls than the lightsaber in Star Wars. Of course, it looked early on like the rings were necessary for the lightsaber-type effect, but Yogurt revealed that they were just bupkis found in the bottom of a Cracker Jack box.
sin shai, nagai jedi 04-30-08, 01:29 AM	Well, maybe a soulknife is a bit more like the schwartz sword power in Space Balls than the lightsaber in Star Wars. Of course, it looked early on like the rings were necessary for the lightsaber-type effect, but Yogurt revealed that they were just bupkis found in the bottom of a Cracker Jack box. yes, you are completely right, and you win. though...soulknives cant lift things with theyre minds... but then again there are "rings of telekenisis" aren't there? alittle reflavoring of where the blade comes from and BAM! you have yourselves dark helmet as a villan. anyway, more on topic, so soulknives can take psionic feats, but are there any that the soulknife can really make use of? other than the ones for shapeing the mind blade anyway.
CrimsonDeath 04-30-08, 02:59 AM	though...soulknives cant lift things with theyre minds... Hidden Talent: Far Hand
Sinfire Titan 04-30-08, 03:08 AM	Those are good points, except for - The mindblade is not a lightsaber. A lightsaber is a piece of equipment. It can be disarmed, or stolen. It can be made by one person and used by another. If it's broken it takes more than 6 seconds to repair/recreate it. Lightsaber blades all generally look the same, with the only differences being length and color. A lightsaber, as far as I know, isn't a metaphysical conduit which it's wielder uses to deliver psionic energies directly to the mind of her enemy. This is true. They printed an offical Lightsaber for DnD in the MiC anyway.
InkBlot 04-30-08, 01:30 PM	They did? What page? What was it called? I have the MIC, but it's so damn dense. Trying to find anything in there without at least a name is like trying to find a needle in a hay stack.
CrimsonDeath 04-30-08, 02:40 PM	The thing really needs an index by body slot.
Sinfire Titan 04-30-08, 03:20 PM	They did? What page? What was it called? I have the MIC, but it's so damn dense. Trying to find anything in there without at least a name is like trying to find a needle in a hay stack. Rod of Force, page 174. 5 times/day, 10 rounds/use, it makes a +1 Brilliant Energy Longsword as a Swift action. Using the rules for enhancing existing items, it is possible to make that same item your primary weapon.
Mercurius 05-01-08, 11:54 AM	anyway, more on topic, so soulknives can take psionic feats, but are there any that the soulknife can really make use of? other than the ones for shapeing the mind blade anyway. Speed of Thought, Up the Walls, Psionic Weapon, Greater Psionic Weapon, Deep Impact, Psionic Shot, Greater Psionic Shot, Psionic Charge... Yeah, there's lots of feats that a Soulknife could benefit from. Speed of Thought, IMHO, almost makes being a psionic character worth it all by itself.
InkBlot 05-01-08, 02:43 PM	They get Speed Of Thought for free at 6th level already.
AntiDjinn 05-01-08, 02:56 PM	With a 3/4 BAB sometimes Deep Impact is the only way you hit a heavily armored opponent.
SlanderPanic 05-01-08, 07:40 PM	You don't think the soulknife is very psionic? I ask you to... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v518/Slanderpanic/quato_29.jpg Open your miiiiind... The soulknife uses the power of his mind in a different way than manifesters do, but that doesn't mean his power doesn't come from the same source. This isn't any different than, say, a creature using a spell-like ability.
Mercurius 05-01-08, 08:58 PM	They get Speed Of Thought for free at 6th level already. D'oh!
kelvinaw273 05-03-08, 01:43 PM	Thing is, you can regard psionics as just a different form of magic ... you don't NEED to re-justify it, although in a normal-magic-only environment you might change a few details it would work OK.
Ocom 05-03-08, 05:32 PM	kelvinaw273 has the right idea. Unless you are already using psionics or plan to incorporate it you could just treat the soulknife's abilities as arcane based. Also, a lot of off-topic discussion here.