Post/Author/DateTime	Post
kyeudo 12-11-07, 04:04 PM	Digging around in the Best Lines Ever thread, I found proof that psions are not the true masters of the mind. The true masters are barbarians! Take a look: In this party I was playing a TWF barbarian with two mauls, Diehard, and Quick Draw. The other party members were a psion (kineticist), a druid, a ninja/monk, and a spellthief. We were all at level 16 and fighting one of the BBEG's lieutenants, a marilith with a nasty set of weapons. I had dealt quite a bit of damage to it so far. DM: Okay, the marilith's really mad at you, so it decides to sunder your hammers. *rolls attacks, then rolls damage* Good-bye hammers. Me: :mad: DM: It looks at you, grins, and says, "And as a follow-up..." and lays into you with the rest of its attacks. *rolls a couple of crits and high damage all around* It then moves back 5 ft. Me: That puts me at... :eek: -9 hp. DM: The marilith slices off one of your arms and the top of your head. (to the party) You have a nice view of his grey matter. Party: :yuck: Psion: See, that's why I prefer to kill things with my brain: so I don't get killed back. Me: Shut up. :mad: DM: It's your turn, by the way. You have Diehard, right? So you can still act. Me: Okay. I have no backup weapons, I die next round, I can't close without being stabbed...you said te top of my head was sliced off? DM: :confused: Yes. Me: I have Quick Draw, so I throw my "grey matter" at the marilith. DM: :uh-huh: Are you serious?! Me: I have nothing else and I'm going down anyway. Yes. DM: Roll Fortitude to see if you survive long enough to actually throw it after tearing it out. Me: 31 good enough? :D DM: :looloo: Roll your attack. Me: 1. DM: You miss horribly. *rolls* the brain goes right past the marilith and keeps going. Anybody else in the line of fire? (all check the mat) Psion: Me. DM: Roll to see if you hit him. Me: ...20. All: :blink: Me: ...20. All: :mymy: Me: ...20. All: :OMG! (long silence) Psion: ...You killed me. Me: *nods* With my brain. All: (Lasts about 1.5 seconds, then bursts into laughter) Psion: I! HATE! YOU! SO! MUCH! Hope you enjoyed. Just wanted to share the laughter. ;)
Lycanthromancer 12-11-07, 04:26 PM	Ack! I laughed so hard I think I just wet myself...
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 12-11-07, 04:39 PM	Aw, and here I was expected some hilarious prestige class based off of the idea. But yeah, I've seen it. I only just now put together the extra hilarity of the fact that it was a psion killed by a brain.
hovnarr 12-12-07, 01:05 PM	Funny story! Is the term "dungeon legend" in official use to describe stories like these, much like 'urban legend' works IRL? (Not saying this particular story is fake, but yeah, it probably is. Still funny though).
CrimsonDeath 12-12-07, 02:25 PM	What keeps it from being funny to me is that two house rules (hitting someone behind your target with a ranged weapon, and instant death criticals) conspired to screw over the Psion.
archangel_arcanis_07 12-12-07, 03:23 PM	What keeps it from being funny to me is that two house rules (hitting someone behind your target with a ranged weapon, and instant death criticals) conspired to screw over the Psion. that is because it was wizards intent all along to kill the psion and make it look like it wasn't them.;)
Taren 12-12-07, 04:50 PM	What keeps it from being funny to me is that two house rules (hitting someone behind your target with a ranged weapon, and instant death criticals) conspired to screw over the Psion. they are optional rules, still valid selections for the rules. rolling a one institutes a fumble, and the GM decides what happens... logically if you miss someone and there is something behind them, there's a chance you get hit.
Malcaor 12-12-07, 05:10 PM	that's pretty awesome, i laughed
CrimsonDeath 12-12-07, 05:12 PM	they are optional rules, still valid selections for the rules. rolling a one institutes a fumble, and the GM decides what happens... logically if you miss someone and there is something behind them, there's a chance you get hit. That still doesn't make it funny. At least not to me.
kyeudo 12-12-07, 08:00 PM	Don't be such a party pooper. Just because they happened to be using critical fumbles and instant death criticals doesn't mean it isn't funny that a psion got killed by the barbarian's brain.
CrimsonDeath 12-12-07, 08:26 PM	Don't be such a party pooper. Just because they happened to be using critical fumbles and instant death criticals doesn't mean it isn't funny that a psion got killed by the barbarian's brain. Sorry, I didn't mean to spoil the fun...
archerpwr 12-12-07, 08:27 PM	Sorry, I didn't mean to spoil the fun... It's ok, I didn't find it very funny either.
Suspect_Unusual 12-12-07, 10:07 PM	I think it's an excellent illustration of why both the "3 20's equals death" rule and fumble effects besides missing are a horrible idea.
ff6shadow 12-12-07, 10:48 PM	Yeah, it's funny as an example of why those two rules suck.
PhaedrusXY 12-13-07, 06:09 PM	Yeah, it's funny as an example of why those two rules suck.I agree. I didn't even get it the first time, because we never play with those.
BlaineTog 12-13-07, 07:21 PM	Frankly, I think this is an example of terrible DMing. First, you don't sunder the barbarian's weapons to death; that isn't fun, it just makes the game suck for his player. Second, you don't then wail into him for no discernible reason (without his hammers, he's clearly much less of a threat, so you're attacking him just for the sake of attacking him). But the brain thing, yeah, that's pretty funny, even if it shouldn't have happened too.
Tinari 12-13-07, 07:29 PM	"examples of why it's a terrible idea" I heard twice. But since EVERYONE AT THE TABLE began to laugh and enjoy the moment, WHY is it a terrible rule? "Oh man, everyone is laughing and happy, something that couldn't have happened if those vile house rules weren't in effect! BAD GAME! BAD RULES! BAD BAD BAD!"
CrimsonDeath 12-13-07, 08:23 PM	"examples of why it's a terrible idea" I heard twice. But since EVERYONE AT THE TABLE began to laugh and enjoy the moment, WHY is it a terrible rule? "Oh man, everyone is laughing and happy, something that couldn't have happened if those vile house rules weren't in effect! BAD GAME! BAD RULES! BAD BAD BAD!" So now everyone in the world has to have the exact same sense of humor and have fun doing the same things? Why are you even playing D&D? Shouldn't you be outside playing sports like a normal person?
archerpwr 12-13-07, 08:40 PM	Why are you even playing D&D? Shouldn't you be outside playing sports like a normal person? *sigs*
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 12-13-07, 11:05 PM	So now everyone in the world has to have the exact same sense of humor and have fun doing the same things? Why are you even playing D&D? Shouldn't you be outside playing sports like a normal person? I think we have a misunderstanding here. It seems to me that Tinari isn't saying everyone has to like those rules - only that in this case, the people affected had no problem with it. They even got a good laugh out of it. For that group at least, the rules weren't a problem. So why make an issue out of it? Honestly, it sounded to me more like you were trying to force the view that these house rules suck than Tinari pushing that it's hilarious. Let's just be friends. *calm emotions*
Suspect_Unusual 12-13-07, 11:24 PM	I think we have a misunderstanding here. It seems to me that Tinari isn't saying everyone has to like those rules - only that in this case, the people affected had no problem with it. They even got a good laugh out of it. For that group at least, the rules weren't a problem. So why make an issue out of it? Honestly, it sounded to me more like you were trying to force the view that these house rules suck than Tinari pushing that it's hilarious. Let's just be friends. *calm emotions* Except I found the last part a bit ambiguous, perhaps because I'm currently playing a psion in that sort of rule situation, and I know I personally would react horribly to that happening to me ingame and HATE the rules responsible, while still being able to find humor in the comeback the soon-to-join-me-in-death character's commentary. The way the story is told, it's implied that EVERYONE at the table is laughing... but the "I. HATE. YOU. SO. MUCH!" comment at the end, when I read it, implied to me that the psion player isn't amused that his character just got killed for no reason whatsoever in a way he had no method of preventing whatsoever, solely due to the barbarian's actions and a stupid house rule that punishes the player for existing. Were I the psion in that group, I'd be ******, and rightly so. This isn't to say the house rule isn't possible to enjoy - each and every group of mine does, much to my (loud) lamentation. *I* just don't find it funny, because *I* can relate to the psion and *I* wouldn't find it a good situation.
CrimsonDeath 12-14-07, 02:24 AM	Honestly, it sounded to me more like you were trying to force the view that these house rules suck than Tinari pushing that it's hilarious. Three people said it was funny; I disagreed. Taren tried to explain the joke; I pointed out that it was just my opinion. kyeudo berated me for having an opinion, and I apologized. Then Tinari says we're wrong for thinking it's a bad set of house rules because the people in this particular game are enjoying it. And who's trying to force opinions on other people?
Omnirahk, half-Rahkshi 12-14-07, 07:35 AM	I withdraw my statement and apologize.
BlaineTog 12-14-07, 10:48 AM	But since EVERYONE AT THE TABLE began to laugh and enjoy the moment, WHY is it a terrible rule?First, the Psion clearly didn't think it was funny. The joke was heavily at his expense. It might be funny to throw someone down a flight of stairs without warning, but that doesn't make it ok. Second, the psion lost his character for no reason other than a ridiculous 1-in-8,000 chance. If this is just a one-shot, then that's not a big deal, but if it's a long-running campaign, then that's no way to lose a character. The barbarian got screwed in this way as well.
Slagger the Chuul 12-14-07, 12:39 PM	First, the Psion clearly didn't think it was funny. The joke was heavily at his expense. It might be funny to throw someone down a flight of stairs without warning, but that doesn't make it ok. True, but I doubt the barbarian thought the psion's quip about not getting killed back was particularly funny when he'd just hit -9. Of course, this wouldn't be as amusing if he'd kept quiet. :) Second, the psion lost his character for no reason other than a ridiculous 1-in-8,000 chance. If this is just a one-shot, then that's not a big deal, but if it's a long-running campaign, then that's no way to lose a character. The barbarian got screwed in this way as well. I assume that by lose" you mean "temporarily misplace", since it is well within the means of a 16th-level party to bring back its fallen members. Not that that makes the instant kill variant any better.
CrimsonDeath 12-14-07, 02:05 PM	I assume that by lose" you mean "temporarily misplace", since it is well within the means of a 16th-level party to bring back its fallen members. Not that that makes the instant kill variant any better. Assuming the party (now short two members) manages to finish off a Marilith who dropped a Barbarian in one round.
kyeudo 12-14-07, 03:37 PM	Three people said it was funny; I disagreed. Taren tried to explain the joke; I pointed out that it was just my opinion. kyeudo berated me for having an opinion, and I apologized. Then Tinari says we're wrong for thinking it's a bad set of house rules because the people in this particular game are enjoying it. And who's trying to force opinions on other people? Sorry about that. I always forget that the internet does not communicate tone very well. I meant my previous words more as a friendly jibe than some kind of reprimand.
seker 12-14-07, 04:52 PM	personally I think it was a great story... Even if I had been the psion I would have been laughing... after all he did make the smart remark about prefering to kill with his brains so he doesnt get killed back... And I would not hold the DM having the marilith sunder the guys weapons against them... as that is a logical and intelligent tactic... and mariliths are the tacticians of the tanar'ri and have an 18 int, fighting a barbarian that had done most of the damage to her, with the weapons he had... Of course she was trying to neutralize his strongest abilities. And bad rolls can happen, and they make for some of the most memorable and fun moments in a game. Heck I had a low level monk once that had a very similiar instance to this one... We were fighting a large number of goblins and hobgoblins... I tried to punch a goblin... rolled a 1... then the DM had me roll to see if i hit the column the goblin was hiding behind... rolled a 20... rolled to confirm... rolled another 20... rolled damage... got max damage... broke the column and the ceiling started caving in... also shattered every bone in my monks right arm. It got even better when we got back to town to find a healer to heal my arm... don't ask what happens when you worship an evil deity (lolth, was a albino half-drow... just a normal half elf with a really messed up background and was lawful evil) and the local priest is a priest of Pelor :gah: Let's just say the arm was permanently shattered, and I had to go to a stump lay his arm on the stop, hold a healing potion in my mouth and have the fighter in the party with a bastard sword cut it off... and use the healing potion to seal the wound... And I begged her to cut it off. Well the fighter was a bit traumatized by this, and she spent the next 3 days in game drinking her character into oblivion.
JLaurHughes 12-14-07, 07:16 PM	Some people have no sense of humor. I'll classify this as an untold story of circumstance.
CrimsonDeath 12-14-07, 08:13 PM	Sorry about that. I always forget that the internet does not communicate tone very well. I meant my previous words more as a friendly jibe than some kind of reprimand. And I'd like to apologize too. I knew exactly what you meant, and I was exaggerating for the purpose of making a point.
Slagger the Chuul 12-14-07, 11:55 PM	Assuming the party (now short two members) manages to finish off a Marilith who dropped a Barbarian in one round. The marilith had already suffered "quite a bit of damage", and if they fail it's not really going to be an issue of who raises who. :D
BlaineTog 12-15-07, 01:46 PM	I assume that by lose" you mean "temporarily misplace", since it is well within the means of a 16th-level party to bring back its fallen members.True. I forget about the revolving door because my groups always houserule resurection away to make death less absurd. But frankly, he's a lot better off just rolling a new character now. First, either way he's lost a level (such *sucks*), but if he comes back as the barbarian, he's down two very expensive hammers. And I would not hold the DM having the marilith sunder the guys weapons against them... as that is a logical and intelligent tactic... and mariliths are the tacticians of the tanar'ri and have an 18 int, fighting a barbarian that had done most of the damage to her, with the weapons he had... Of course she was trying to neutralize his strongest abilities.While it may or may not have been the smart thing to do (if the marilith had just attacked him those two times, he would have died outright, and then it could take his hammers afterwards), it's just not fun for the player.
moogleman58 12-15-07, 07:15 PM	Except I found the last part a bit ambiguous, perhaps because I'm currently playing a psion in that sort of rule situation, and I know I personally would react horribly to that happening to me ingame and HATE the rules responsible, while still being able to find humor in the comeback the soon-to-join-me-in-death character's commentary. The way the story is told, it's implied that EVERYONE at the table is laughing... but the "I. HATE. YOU. SO. MUCH!" comment at the end, when I read it, implied to me that the psion player isn't amused that his character just got killed for no reason whatsoever in a way he had no method of preventing whatsoever, solely due to the barbarian's actions and a stupid house rule that punishes the player for existing. Were I the psion in that group, I'd be ******, and rightly so. This isn't to say the house rule isn't possible to enjoy - each and every group of mine does, much to my (loud) lamentation. *I* just don't find it funny, because *I* can relate to the psion and *I* wouldn't find it a good situation. To me it implied that he did find it amusing.
seker 12-15-07, 08:27 PM	While it may or may not have been the smart thing to do (if the marilith had just attacked him those two times, he would have died outright, and then it could take his hammers afterwards), it's just not fun for the player. That is a matter of opinion, my players in the games I run seem to enjoy it when I get sadistic and run the npcs like real people... it make the game a heck of alot more enjoyable for them. And a maralith is a fiend, and a chaotic evil one at that, destroying a persons prize weapons is more cruel and evil than just killing them... because even if he is resurrected... the fact that she did that becomes an important point to the character.
BlaineTog 12-16-07, 02:36 AM	That is a matter of opinion, my players in the games I run seem to enjoy it when I get sadistic and run the npcs like real people... it make the game a heck of alot more enjoyable for them.I'm not saying not to run them like real people. I'm just saying that for a long-running game, it is more condusive to play if the players don't get eviserated or have their weapons destroyed just cuz. Then again, your group may vary. There may be groups that even enjoy having TPKs every session after a long series of missed attacks and failed skill rolls, I don't know. And a maralith is a fiend, and a chaotic evil one at that, destroying a persons prize weapons is more cruel and evil than just killing them... because even if he is resurrected... the fact that she did that becomes an important point to the character.It could always destroy them after the barbarian has ceased being any kind of threat, such as by dying. I see what you're saying, but you don't stop to torture someone when there are three or four of his buddies around moving to attack.
Slagger the Chuul 12-16-07, 04:48 AM	It could always destroy them after the barbarian has ceased being any kind of threat, such as by dying. I see what you're saying, but you don't stop to torture someone when there are three or four of his buddies around moving to attack. It didn't really know that it would roll well or get a couple of critical hits, so sundering the weapons first makes sure that he will pose a greatly reduced threat. And sometimes it's worth risking it to see the look on their faces; as a demon, she's inclined to follow her whims a bit more.
Jaid 12-16-07, 12:50 PM	keep in mind that mariliths (as with all demons) are not just evil and chaotic, they are [evil] and [chaotic]. we are talking about an incarnation of pure chaotic evil, not just some human who will do just about anything to get what he wants without regard for what happens to others. the marilith *enjoys* causing suffering, she would be taking active pleasure in knowing that she had inflicted serious, long-term damage on someone.
Tinari 12-16-07, 07:37 PM	My apologies for being so delayed, and thank you for standing in for me trying to clarify my statements, though I think only I know what I meant in the context. "I. HATE. YOU. SO. MUCH." In the group I play, I hear that ALL the time in much the same tone it's conveyed in, and yet we're all happy and enjoying the game quite well. So it's hard to say if it was an honestly angry response or if it was more of just a loud, excessively punctuated way of saying something. "I'M. SORRY. I. OFFENDED. YOU." I think it's an excellent illustration of why both the "3 20's equals death" rule and fumble effects besides missing are a horrible idea. This is actually the one that garnered the response from me that it did. Basically, what it boiled down to was this from what I had read. A group of players are playing, barbarian is dying and does something weird involving his brain. Due to some house rules, his brain kills a Psion. Clearly, this is an excellent illustration of why both the "3 20's equals death" rule and fumble effects: a group of people all enjoying the game and having a laugh so good that they even felt like posting it on the forums. Hope that clears up what I said a bit more. First, the Psion clearly didn't think it was funny. The joke was heavily at his expense. It might be funny to throw someone down a flight of stairs without warning, but that doesn't make it ok. Second, the psion lost his character for no reason other than a ridiculous 1-in-8,000 chance. If this is just a one-shot, then that's not a big deal, but if it's a long-running campaign, then that's no way to lose a character. The barbarian got screwed in this way as well. We don't know what the Psion thought until we hear from him specifically. As I said, I do a LOT of things on the table in and out of character that has one of the other players saying to me (mostly OOC) very slowly, clearly and loudly "I. HATE. YOU. SO. MUCH.". Not verbatim, mind you, sometimes there's vulgarities in there or other variants and variations, but you can trim it down to "I hate you." regardless of how he phrases it. But he's still having a great time as am I, so it's purely situational context. Did the psion really not find it funny? Was he just responding like that? Should we push a living person in real life down a flight of stairs because a brain killed someone in a game? WHO KNOWS! :D