Thicken skin power's bonus [Archive] - Wizards Community

Thicken skin power's bonus [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Darkprince
08-10-07, 01:27 PM in the powers description, it says it grants an "enhancement bonus" to AC. It says in teh description that your skin or natural armor thickens, so shouldn't the bonus be to natural armor? it isn't in the errata.
ZocckCastlestorm
08-10-07, 02:01 PM Makes sense to me,Darkprince. I never noticed that before('Cuz I take Inertial Armor instead), so nice catch there.
Jaid
08-10-07, 02:23 PM that's a fairly common houserule based on the assumption that it's supposed to work that way.

of course, if we were to ever get errata (they kind that we don't have to pay for would be especially nice, just like every other supplement gets) it may even change to that officially.
Scion of Coldshard
08-10-07, 03:05 PM Considering that it is egoist 1/psychic warrior 1, does not scale, provides a pretty small benefit, and its duration is only decent at mid to high levels or very quick dungeon crawls I would say that it stacking with everything else is perfectly fine and reasonable ;)

In fact, given all of that, I would be tempted to say that it actually needs some improving.. preferably the duration bit.
InkBlot
08-10-07, 03:14 PM What do you mean it doesn't scale? It scales just as much as any other psionic power, by paying more power points.

And Jaid, we did get errata (several times) for the Expanded Psionics Handbook. None of them changed thicken skin (although they did change several other weird powers, like hammer).
GuardianLurker
08-10-07, 03:54 PM in the powers description, it says it grants an "enhancement bonus" to AC. It says in teh description that your skin or natural armor thickens, so shouldn't the bonus be to natural armor? it isn't in the errata.

Remember, there is no actual "AC bonus" per se. An "enhancement bonus" increases the value of an existing bonus, in this case, the natural armor bonus of the target.
Scion of Coldshard
08-10-07, 04:22 PM What do you mean it doesn't scale? It scales just as much as any other psionic power, by paying more power points.

Generally 'scale' would be assumed to mean 'free scaling'. You have to pay until you bleed out the eyes in order to make the power improve much.
Vharuck
08-10-07, 04:25 PM Remember, there is no actual "AC bonus" per se. An "enhancement bonus" increases the value of an existing bonus, in this case, the natural armor bonus of the target.

Yup. Just like how a chainmail shirt with an enhancement bonus of +3 doesn't add 3 to your armor class. The 3 enhances the shirt's AC bonus to 7, which is then added to your AC.

This power gives a bonus to your natural armor. Then, your natural armor gives a bonus to your armor. This was done so that something already having natural armor could benefit from this power.
Scion of Coldshard
08-10-07, 04:35 PM Remember, there is no actual "AC bonus" per se. An "enhancement bonus" increases the value of an existing bonus, in this case, the natural armor bonus of the target.

The power says that it gives an enhancement bonus to armor class. Without errata that is what it does and anything else is a houserule.

As I said earlier though, considering the limitations it already has I dont see any problem with using it as written. It isnt even powerful enough to bother spending a feat on.
pesatyel
08-11-07, 02:54 PM What's difference does it make though, most of the time?

I mean if Thicken Skin adds +2 to your AC, is it relevant if it "technically" added to your "natural armor" AC or your overall AC since they would, in the end be the same?

A character with no dex bonus wearing chain mail has an AC of 15. If Thicken Skin gave a bonus of +2, it would be a 17 and it wouldn't matter "where" that +2 is applied since the end result is still a 17.

Unless, of course, creatures with natural armor can't wear regular armor or there is some in game effect where natural armor comes into play.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht
08-11-07, 06:22 PM What's difference does it make though, most of the time?

I mean if Thicken Skin adds +2 to your AC, is it relevant if it "technically" added to your "natural armor" AC or your overall AC since they would, in the end be the same?

An enormous difference when dealing with things that offer enhancement bonuses to natural armor, such as barkskin or an amulet of natural armor.
Darkprince
08-11-07, 11:36 PM hey guys, thanks a lot. that the enhancement bonus applies as an enhancement bonus to natural armor makes a lot of sense. i had thought that enhancement bonuses were specific to armor, but upon reading this and things like bull's strength i understand. and i think this power is perfectly fine the way it is. natural armor is an uncommon type of ac bonus, only available to druids, rangers, and amulets of it, so i think the power is great. the whole reason i asked this question was if and when i enhance my chainmail, i wanted to know how this power would work, and now i know. again, thanks a lot guys, much appreciated.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Darkprince 08-10-07, 01:27 PM	in the powers description, it says it grants an "enhancement bonus" to AC. It says in teh description that your skin or natural armor thickens, so shouldn't the bonus be to natural armor? it isn't in the errata.
ZocckCastlestorm 08-10-07, 02:01 PM	Makes sense to me,Darkprince. I never noticed that before('Cuz I take Inertial Armor instead), so nice catch there.
Jaid 08-10-07, 02:23 PM	that's a fairly common houserule based on the assumption that it's supposed to work that way. of course, if we were to ever get errata (they kind that we don't have to pay for would be especially nice, just like every other supplement gets) it may even change to that officially.
Scion of Coldshard 08-10-07, 03:05 PM	Considering that it is egoist 1/psychic warrior 1, does not scale, provides a pretty small benefit, and its duration is only decent at mid to high levels or very quick dungeon crawls I would say that it stacking with everything else is perfectly fine and reasonable ;) In fact, given all of that, I would be tempted to say that it actually needs some improving.. preferably the duration bit.
InkBlot 08-10-07, 03:14 PM	What do you mean it doesn't scale? It scales just as much as any other psionic power, by paying more power points. And Jaid, we did get errata (several times) for the Expanded Psionics Handbook. None of them changed thicken skin (although they did change several other weird powers, like hammer).
GuardianLurker 08-10-07, 03:54 PM	in the powers description, it says it grants an "enhancement bonus" to AC. It says in teh description that your skin or natural armor thickens, so shouldn't the bonus be to natural armor? it isn't in the errata. Remember, there is no actual "AC bonus" per se. An "enhancement bonus" increases the value of an existing bonus, in this case, the natural armor bonus of the target.
Scion of Coldshard 08-10-07, 04:22 PM	What do you mean it doesn't scale? It scales just as much as any other psionic power, by paying more power points. Generally 'scale' would be assumed to mean 'free scaling'. You have to pay until you bleed out the eyes in order to make the power improve much.
Vharuck 08-10-07, 04:25 PM	Remember, there is no actual "AC bonus" per se. An "enhancement bonus" increases the value of an existing bonus, in this case, the natural armor bonus of the target. Yup. Just like how a chainmail shirt with an enhancement bonus of +3 doesn't add 3 to your armor class. The 3 enhances the shirt's AC bonus to 7, which is then added to your AC. This power gives a bonus to your natural armor. Then, your natural armor gives a bonus to your armor. This was done so that something already having natural armor could benefit from this power.
Scion of Coldshard 08-10-07, 04:35 PM	Remember, there is no actual "AC bonus" per se. An "enhancement bonus" increases the value of an existing bonus, in this case, the natural armor bonus of the target. The power says that it gives an enhancement bonus to armor class. Without errata that is what it does and anything else is a houserule. As I said earlier though, considering the limitations it already has I dont see any problem with using it as written. It isnt even powerful enough to bother spending a feat on.
pesatyel 08-11-07, 02:54 PM	What's difference does it make though, most of the time? I mean if Thicken Skin adds +2 to your AC, is it relevant if it "technically" added to your "natural armor" AC or your overall AC since they would, in the end be the same? A character with no dex bonus wearing chain mail has an AC of 15. If Thicken Skin gave a bonus of +2, it would be a 17 and it wouldn't matter "where" that +2 is applied since the end result is still a 17. Unless, of course, creatures with natural armor can't wear regular armor or there is some in game effect where natural armor comes into play.
Raymond_Luxury_Yacht 08-11-07, 06:22 PM	What's difference does it make though, most of the time? I mean if Thicken Skin adds +2 to your AC, is it relevant if it "technically" added to your "natural armor" AC or your overall AC since they would, in the end be the same? An enormous difference when dealing with things that offer enhancement bonuses to natural armor, such as barkskin or an amulet of natural armor.
Darkprince 08-11-07, 11:36 PM	hey guys, thanks a lot. that the enhancement bonus applies as an enhancement bonus to natural armor makes a lot of sense. i had thought that enhancement bonuses were specific to armor, but upon reading this and things like bull's strength i understand. and i think this power is perfectly fine the way it is. natural armor is an uncommon type of ac bonus, only available to druids, rangers, and amulets of it, so i think the power is great. the whole reason i asked this question was if and when i enhance my chainmail, i wanted to know how this power would work, and now i know. again, thanks a lot guys, much appreciated.