This kitty stays alive, the danger of theorycraft. [Archive] - Wizards Community

This kitty stays alive, the danger of theorycraft. [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Henchcritter
06-12-07, 03:09 PM One day this poster had a great idea for a post. But I won’t post it as I planned. I’ll explain later.

The post:

Novaing is overrated

This thread was inspired by a psionic character. The character was first level, had int 18 (with 28 point buy) and energy ray. With 5 PP and energy ray he could do some nice damage. Then he took the feats over channel and talented so he could pump out 3d6 damage in one round (even more of he took fire or cold damage).

Sounds like a gm nightmare. I suddenly thought so. This guy could nova a single CR1 or 2 creature dead before it could do any damage. Compared to a 1D8+2 fighter, 1D4+1 mage or a cleric that needs to boost himself or the party, this guy has the potential to finish. the encounter before my NPC can even attack. That was, with a touch attack.

Then my npc came. The powered up an 3d6+3 fireray and rolled a five. 60% of his powerpoint reserve went up frying some innocent rock behind my NPC. The nova machine was now in dire problems. I was astonished that this powerful PC was hampered by just one roll. Later I thought that this wasn't a matter of only bad luck, it was also a matter of choice.

My second inspiration was a rule in a boardgame called Star Fleet battles. Here use D6's to fire multiple weapons at your enemy. Normally you role a single d6 per weapon into one salvo. So if you had 3 photon torpedoes, you would roll 3d6 and look up single d6 on a table to see the result. They do however have a rule called “narrow salvo”, you can use 1d6 for all weapons and use that result for all weapons. They advice however that this is disadvantageous unless some damage is worse then no damage. I never understood why, that is until Saturday. I would like to launch the following drawback of novaing under the name “narrow salvo-drawback”.

I made these assumptions.
1) The actual outcome of a damage die a psion does, makes no difference, only the hit or miss or made saving throw. Therefore I will talk in dice as output.
2) I assume the psion that focusses on rays has a dex to match this. A psion that relies on saves will have a good int.
3) A psion is smart enough to seek out the energy type/ power that hurts the most weakest save of targets the weakest abilities. That means ranged touch against big targets, electricity against powerresistant targets, fort saves against rogues and so on. Note I cannot see this as meta gaming, a big brawling fighter is something a psion with a bit of psycraft is unlikely to target with a power/energy to which bigguys are resistant.
4) A psion is most likely to benefit form average dicerolls. 2+3 mean that an avarage diceroll on saving throws or 9ranged) touch attacks and power resist favors the psion. A psion will not benefit that much more from favorable deviations on such dicerolls then he is hurt by unfavorable deviations.
5) The law of large numbers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_large_numbers will mean that a spion who expands his points on multiple rolls, will approach average and novaing will deviate from that average.
6) Novaing will leave a character more prone to bad dicerolls then one who doesn't.

Oke, this looked like a good post, the theory was sound but then I did the math. Yeah, the theory held, novaing means less damage. The only drawback was that the effect was so subtle it wasn’t noticeable after one hundered rolls.

I still post this, not as a novaing is overrated thread but to warn others against theorycrafting. Live little kitty.
InkBlot
06-12-07, 03:54 PM The real danger of going nova is that you won't have any power points left over for later encounters, or for a second wave of enemies in the current encounter. A good strategy is dropping one or two big blasts to soften up the enemies, then letting your tank Cleave through them all.

The character was first level, had int 18 (with 28 point buy) and energy ray. With 5 PP and energy ray he could do some nice damage. Then he took the feats over channel and talented so he could pump out 3d6 damage in one round (even more of he took fire or cold damage).
That's a problem right there. The character broke the rules. At first level, you can only use Overchannel to raise your manifester level by +1. That character can only manifest 2d6 energy rays.

Also, Overchannel deals untyped unavoidable damage.

OVERCHANNEL [PSIONIC]
You burn your life force to strengthen your powers.
Benefit: While manifesting a power, you can increase your effective manifester level by one, but in so doing you take 1d8 points of damage. At 8th level, you can choose to increase your effective manifester level by two, but you take 3d8 points of damage. At 15th level, you can increase your effective manifester level by three, but you take 5d8 points of damage.

The effective increase in manifester level increases the number of power points you can expend on a single power manifestation, as well as increasing all manifester level-dependent effects, such as range, duration, and overcoming power resistance.
Normal: Your manifester level is equal to your total levels in classes that manifest powers.

So the 1st level character would have had a good chance of dying by using this feat, if he didn't have Talented. Of course he did have Talented, but since that requires expending psionic focus he can only do the trick about once per encounter.
CrimsonDeath
06-12-07, 04:14 PM Not that doing it more than once per encounter would have been feasible. Even at the 2pp maximum, he can only do it twice per day.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Henchcritter 06-12-07, 03:09 PM	One day this poster had a great idea for a post. But I won’t post it as I planned. I’ll explain later. The post: Novaing is overrated This thread was inspired by a psionic character. The character was first level, had int 18 (with 28 point buy) and energy ray. With 5 PP and energy ray he could do some nice damage. Then he took the feats over channel and talented so he could pump out 3d6 damage in one round (even more of he took fire or cold damage). Sounds like a gm nightmare. I suddenly thought so. This guy could nova a single CR1 or 2 creature dead before it could do any damage. Compared to a 1D8+2 fighter, 1D4+1 mage or a cleric that needs to boost himself or the party, this guy has the potential to finish. the encounter before my NPC can even attack. That was, with a touch attack. Then my npc came. The powered up an 3d6+3 fireray and rolled a five. 60% of his powerpoint reserve went up frying some innocent rock behind my NPC. The nova machine was now in dire problems. I was astonished that this powerful PC was hampered by just one roll. Later I thought that this wasn't a matter of only bad luck, it was also a matter of choice. My second inspiration was a rule in a boardgame called Star Fleet battles. Here use D6's to fire multiple weapons at your enemy. Normally you role a single d6 per weapon into one salvo. So if you had 3 photon torpedoes, you would roll 3d6 and look up single d6 on a table to see the result. They do however have a rule called “narrow salvo”, you can use 1d6 for all weapons and use that result for all weapons. They advice however that this is disadvantageous unless some damage is worse then no damage. I never understood why, that is until Saturday. I would like to launch the following drawback of novaing under the name “narrow salvo-drawback”. I made these assumptions. 1) The actual outcome of a damage die a psion does, makes no difference, only the hit or miss or made saving throw. Therefore I will talk in dice as output. 2) I assume the psion that focusses on rays has a dex to match this. A psion that relies on saves will have a good int. 3) A psion is smart enough to seek out the energy type/ power that hurts the most weakest save of targets the weakest abilities. That means ranged touch against big targets, electricity against powerresistant targets, fort saves against rogues and so on. Note I cannot see this as meta gaming, a big brawling fighter is something a psion with a bit of psycraft is unlikely to target with a power/energy to which bigguys are resistant. 4) A psion is most likely to benefit form average dicerolls. 2+3 mean that an avarage diceroll on saving throws or 9ranged) touch attacks and power resist favors the psion. A psion will not benefit that much more from favorable deviations on such dicerolls then he is hurt by unfavorable deviations. 5) The law of large numbers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_large_numbers will mean that a spion who expands his points on multiple rolls, will approach average and novaing will deviate from that average. 6) Novaing will leave a character more prone to bad dicerolls then one who doesn't. Oke, this looked like a good post, the theory was sound but then I did the math. Yeah, the theory held, novaing means less damage. The only drawback was that the effect was so subtle it wasn’t noticeable after one hundered rolls. I still post this, not as a novaing is overrated thread but to warn others against theorycrafting. Live little kitty.
InkBlot 06-12-07, 03:54 PM	The real danger of going nova is that you won't have any power points left over for later encounters, or for a second wave of enemies in the current encounter. A good strategy is dropping one or two big blasts to soften up the enemies, then letting your tank Cleave through them all. The character was first level, had int 18 (with 28 point buy) and energy ray. With 5 PP and energy ray he could do some nice damage. Then he took the feats over channel and talented so he could pump out 3d6 damage in one round (even more of he took fire or cold damage). That's a problem right there. The character broke the rules. At first level, you can only use Overchannel to raise your manifester level by +1. That character can only manifest 2d6 energy rays. Also, Overchannel deals untyped unavoidable damage. OVERCHANNEL [PSIONIC] You burn your life force to strengthen your powers. Benefit: While manifesting a power, you can increase your effective manifester level by one, but in so doing you take 1d8 points of damage. At 8th level, you can choose to increase your effective manifester level by two, but you take 3d8 points of damage. At 15th level, you can increase your effective manifester level by three, but you take 5d8 points of damage. The effective increase in manifester level increases the number of power points you can expend on a single power manifestation, as well as increasing all manifester level-dependent effects, such as range, duration, and overcoming power resistance. Normal: Your manifester level is equal to your total levels in classes that manifest powers. So the 1st level character would have had a good chance of dying by using this feat, if he didn't have Talented. Of course he did have Talented, but since that requires expending psionic focus he can only do the trick about once per encounter.
CrimsonDeath 06-12-07, 04:14 PM	Not that doing it more than once per encounter would have been feasible. Even at the 2pp maximum, he can only do it twice per day.