Touchsight Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Touchsight Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ithamar
08-01-07, 06:09 PM Can Touchsight still easily locate someone with the Darkstalker feat?
Deekin
08-01-07, 06:20 PM You do not need to make Spot or Listen checks to notice creatures; you can detect and pinpoint all creatures within 60 feet.

When you hide, creatures with blindsense, blindsight, scent, or tremorsense must make a Listen check or a Spot check (whichever DC is higher) to notice you, just as sighted creatures would make Spot checks to detect you. You cannot hide in plain sight unless you have that ability as a class feature. In addition, you can flank creatures that have the all-around vision special quality.

Touchsight is not blindsense, blindsight, scent, or tremorsense, ergo Darkstalker does not protect you from it.
Ithamar
08-01-07, 06:54 PM That's what I was afraid of.

Odd, though, that the feat is in a book full of psionic critters and it does not protect against a psionic power that is rather easily obtained.

Oh well...
Genetic
08-01-07, 08:33 PM By logical extension, Darkstalker does protect against touchsight (since it's basically just blindsight). Rules as written, it does not.

Up to the DM in the end.
CrimsonDeath
08-01-07, 09:08 PM Incidentally, I don't think it protects from Mindsight-- another feat from the same book.
Ithamar
08-02-07, 11:54 AM Well the Mindsight bit I would definitely agree with, since that functions off sensing mental energy and no matter how good you are at hiding, can't really shut off the old brain. Unless perhaps Mindblanked or something...
Caterpillar
08-02-07, 12:06 PM Well the Mindsight bit I would definitely agree with, since that functions off sensing mental energy and no matter how good you are at hiding, can't really shut off the old brain. Unless perhaps Mindblanked or something...

By your logic touchsight works just fine as well. With touchsight you aren't 'looking' for anyone no matter how good at hiding they are your telekinetic field still sweeps over them.
Grimmsfeld
08-03-07, 12:04 AM Touchsight is relatively easy to foil, though. A cardboard box, for example...touchsight does not ignore the Disguise skill, and wouldn't see through a box (blocks line of effect.) Though, if the person inside the box decided to move, that might set off some alarms.
CrimsonDeath
08-03-07, 12:44 AM Touchsight is relatively easy to foil, though. A cardboard box, for example...touchsight does not ignore the Disguise skill, and wouldn't see through a box (blocks line of effect.) Though, if the person inside the box decided to move, that might set off some alarms.
Touchsight would be amazingly difficult to fool in combat.

It occurs to me, however, that Touchsight merely addresses the concern of noticing a creature, not identifying it.

Also, it's been noted that certain creatures (most notably constructs and undead) can foil Listen checks by being completely silent if they choose to remain completely motionless. It seems logical for such creatures to foil Touchsight in the same manner, by remaining motionless and appearing to be terrain features (statues and corpses, respectively).
Grimmsfeld
08-03-07, 01:21 AM Once combat starts, yeah, that box trick'd be a little hard to pull. Otherwise, it's as simple as determining touchsight is active, and then figuring out the maximum range of the effect. Mileage may vary with that tactic, though, given that at least the majority of games I play aren't generous with battle grounds that are in excess of 120ft. Otherwise, you can always seek cover. If it blocks line of effect, it blocks touchsight.(unless the opponent has Burrowing Power) Finally, a bit of a higher-end maneuver, you can always go ethereal, at least to my knowleadge, you can't telekinetically touch ethereal creatures.(Unless the opponent has Transdimension Power)

Although...some of these assume touchsight is being used to counter Hide and invisibility, not that you're just for some reason touching an otherwise visible creature. Otherwise, I think a high enough Disguise and Hide check should still fool touchsight into percieving you to be a log, or an innocuous box or crate.
crizhII
08-03-07, 09:18 PM Finally, a bit of a higher-end maneuver, you can always go ethereal, at least to my knowleadge, you can't telekinetically touch ethereal creatures.(Unless the opponent has Transdimension Power)

Generally speaking all Telekinetic abilities affect ethereal creatures. Only those that lack the 'Force' descriptor, like Touchsight and, for some bizarre reason, telekinetic thrust, do not.

I love touchsight, particularly when combined with Transdimensional Power. There's nothing like laying down smack on people from the plane of shadow....
sijigs
08-03-07, 10:31 PM Touchsight kicks butt. :D
Omen_of_Peace
08-04-07, 12:30 AM I love touchsight, particularly when combined with Transdimensional Power. There's nothing like laying down smack on people from the plane of shadow....

Where does it say you can do that ? I only see references to reaching the other planes from the Material.
InkBlot
08-04-07, 01:21 AM I think he meant the people whom he was laying the smack down on where the one who are from the plane of shadow. In other words, I read it as "there's nothing like laying down smack on people who are from the plane of shadow." The underlined words were implied, I assume.
CrimsonDeath
08-04-07, 02:44 AM I thought you could use Transdimensional Power to affect anyone on a coexistant plane. (Not sure how you'd target someone on the Plane of Shadow without being there. There are ways to see the Ethereal plane, but I don't know of a way to see the Plane of Shadow from the Material.)
Omen_of_Peace
08-04-07, 02:58 AM I think he meant the people whom he was laying the smack down on where the one who are from the plane of shadow. In other words, I read it as "there's nothing like laying down smack on people who are from the plane of shadow." The underlined words were implied, I assume.

Ok . It's just that I've seen people make that assumption, and as far as I know it doesn't work - though I would love to able to do it.

I thought you could use Transdimensional Power to affect anyone on a coexistant plane. (Not sure how you'd target someone on the Plane of Shadow without being there. There are ways to see the Ethereal plane, but I don't know of a way to see the Plane of Shadow from the Material.)
With a transdimensional Touchsight presumably (just like you would use a Burrowing Touchsight to see beyond a wall).
crizhII
08-04-07, 03:18 AM You can manifest powers that affect targets lurking in coexistent planes and extradimensional spaces whose entrances fall within the power's area.

I will no doubt be yelled at by someone claiming that the above is 'fluff' text. To which I reply 'And? So?' I've yet to find a rule anywhere defining 'fluff' and specifying it as less valid than other text.

Just because the 'crunch' text does not explicitly list every possible game effect of such an ability, does not preclude the obvious conclusion being true. How the feat works on planes other than the material isn't specified in the benefits text but it is pretty easy to work out based on how the feat achieves those effects according to the 'fluff'.

Technically, I suppose, if a target isn't 'lurking' they aren't affected...
Suldarr'essalar
08-04-07, 04:19 AM (...)touchsight does not ignore the Disguise skillWhy?
Disguise (Cha)
Check

Your Disguise check result determines how good the disguise is, and it is opposed by others’ Spot check results(...)
CrimsonDeath
08-04-07, 04:49 AM You don't need a Spot check to notice the guy with the fake moustache. That doesn't mean you can tell the moustache is fake.
mod5000
08-04-07, 07:37 PM Pliskin says, "Look, I'm not exaggerating when I say the success of your mission hinges on how you use that cardboard box. But in the end, a cardboard box is only made of paper. Handle it with care or it won't be of much use to you. Don't think of it as just another box. Treat it with love... Don't be rough. Okay?"

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ithamar 08-01-07, 06:09 PM	Can Touchsight still easily locate someone with the Darkstalker feat?
Deekin 08-01-07, 06:20 PM	You do not need to make Spot or Listen checks to notice creatures; you can detect and pinpoint all creatures within 60 feet. When you hide, creatures with blindsense, blindsight, scent, or tremorsense must make a Listen check or a Spot check (whichever DC is higher) to notice you, just as sighted creatures would make Spot checks to detect you. You cannot hide in plain sight unless you have that ability as a class feature. In addition, you can flank creatures that have the all-around vision special quality. Touchsight is not blindsense, blindsight, scent, or tremorsense, ergo Darkstalker does not protect you from it.
Ithamar 08-01-07, 06:54 PM	That's what I was afraid of. Odd, though, that the feat is in a book full of psionic critters and it does not protect against a psionic power that is rather easily obtained. Oh well...
Genetic 08-01-07, 08:33 PM	By logical extension, Darkstalker does protect against touchsight (since it's basically just blindsight). Rules as written, it does not. Up to the DM in the end.
CrimsonDeath 08-01-07, 09:08 PM	Incidentally, I don't think it protects from Mindsight-- another feat from the same book.
Ithamar 08-02-07, 11:54 AM	Well the Mindsight bit I would definitely agree with, since that functions off sensing mental energy and no matter how good you are at hiding, can't really shut off the old brain. Unless perhaps Mindblanked or something...
Caterpillar 08-02-07, 12:06 PM	Well the Mindsight bit I would definitely agree with, since that functions off sensing mental energy and no matter how good you are at hiding, can't really shut off the old brain. Unless perhaps Mindblanked or something... By your logic touchsight works just fine as well. With touchsight you aren't 'looking' for anyone no matter how good at hiding they are your telekinetic field still sweeps over them.
Grimmsfeld 08-03-07, 12:04 AM	Touchsight is relatively easy to foil, though. A cardboard box, for example...touchsight does not ignore the Disguise skill, and wouldn't see through a box (blocks line of effect.) Though, if the person inside the box decided to move, that might set off some alarms.
CrimsonDeath 08-03-07, 12:44 AM	Touchsight is relatively easy to foil, though. A cardboard box, for example...touchsight does not ignore the Disguise skill, and wouldn't see through a box (blocks line of effect.) Though, if the person inside the box decided to move, that might set off some alarms. Touchsight would be amazingly difficult to fool in combat. It occurs to me, however, that Touchsight merely addresses the concern of noticing a creature, not identifying it. Also, it's been noted that certain creatures (most notably constructs and undead) can foil Listen checks by being completely silent if they choose to remain completely motionless. It seems logical for such creatures to foil Touchsight in the same manner, by remaining motionless and appearing to be terrain features (statues and corpses, respectively).
Grimmsfeld 08-03-07, 01:21 AM	Once combat starts, yeah, that box trick'd be a little hard to pull. Otherwise, it's as simple as determining touchsight is active, and then figuring out the maximum range of the effect. Mileage may vary with that tactic, though, given that at least the majority of games I play aren't generous with battle grounds that are in excess of 120ft. Otherwise, you can always seek cover. If it blocks line of effect, it blocks touchsight.(unless the opponent has Burrowing Power) Finally, a bit of a higher-end maneuver, you can always go ethereal, at least to my knowleadge, you can't telekinetically touch ethereal creatures.(Unless the opponent has Transdimension Power) Although...some of these assume touchsight is being used to counter Hide and invisibility, not that you're just for some reason touching an otherwise visible creature. Otherwise, I think a high enough Disguise and Hide check should still fool touchsight into percieving you to be a log, or an innocuous box or crate.
crizhII 08-03-07, 09:18 PM	Finally, a bit of a higher-end maneuver, you can always go ethereal, at least to my knowleadge, you can't telekinetically touch ethereal creatures.(Unless the opponent has Transdimension Power) Generally speaking all Telekinetic abilities affect ethereal creatures. Only those that lack the 'Force' descriptor, like Touchsight and, for some bizarre reason, telekinetic thrust, do not. I love touchsight, particularly when combined with Transdimensional Power. There's nothing like laying down smack on people from the plane of shadow....
sijigs 08-03-07, 10:31 PM	Touchsight kicks butt. :D
Omen_of_Peace 08-04-07, 12:30 AM	I love touchsight, particularly when combined with Transdimensional Power. There's nothing like laying down smack on people from the plane of shadow.... Where does it say you can do that ? I only see references to reaching the other planes from the Material.
InkBlot 08-04-07, 01:21 AM	I think he meant the people whom he was laying the smack down on where the one who are from the plane of shadow. In other words, I read it as "there's nothing like laying down smack on people who are from the plane of shadow." The underlined words were implied, I assume.
CrimsonDeath 08-04-07, 02:44 AM	I thought you could use Transdimensional Power to affect anyone on a coexistant plane. (Not sure how you'd target someone on the Plane of Shadow without being there. There are ways to see the Ethereal plane, but I don't know of a way to see the Plane of Shadow from the Material.)
Omen_of_Peace 08-04-07, 02:58 AM	I think he meant the people whom he was laying the smack down on where the one who are from the plane of shadow. In other words, I read it as "there's nothing like laying down smack on people who are from the plane of shadow." The underlined words were implied, I assume. Ok . It's just that I've seen people make that assumption, and as far as I know it doesn't work - though I would love to able to do it. I thought you could use Transdimensional Power to affect anyone on a coexistant plane. (Not sure how you'd target someone on the Plane of Shadow without being there. There are ways to see the Ethereal plane, but I don't know of a way to see the Plane of Shadow from the Material.) With a transdimensional Touchsight presumably (just like you would use a Burrowing Touchsight to see beyond a wall).
crizhII 08-04-07, 03:18 AM	You can manifest powers that affect targets lurking in coexistent planes and extradimensional spaces whose entrances fall within the power's area. I will no doubt be yelled at by someone claiming that the above is 'fluff' text. To which I reply 'And? So?' I've yet to find a rule anywhere defining 'fluff' and specifying it as less valid than other text. Just because the 'crunch' text does not explicitly list every possible game effect of such an ability, does not preclude the obvious conclusion being true. How the feat works on planes other than the material isn't specified in the benefits text but it is pretty easy to work out based on how the feat achieves those effects according to the 'fluff'. Technically, I suppose, if a target isn't 'lurking' they aren't affected...
Suldarr'essalar 08-04-07, 04:19 AM	(...)touchsight does not ignore the Disguise skillWhy? Disguise (Cha) Check Your Disguise check result determines how good the disguise is, and it is opposed by others’ Spot check results(...)
CrimsonDeath 08-04-07, 04:49 AM	You don't need a Spot check to notice the guy with the fake moustache. That doesn't mean you can tell the moustache is fake.
mod5000 08-04-07, 07:37 PM	Pliskin says, "Look, I'm not exaggerating when I say the success of your mission hinges on how you use that cardboard box. But in the end, a cardboard box is only made of paper. Handle it with care or it won't be of much use to you. Don't think of it as just another box. Treat it with love... Don't be rough. Okay?"