Transdimensional Powers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Transdimensional Powers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Knight0
10-29-07, 04:56 PM Would Teleport and Dimension door work with transdimensional power to transport you and allies from the Ethereal to the Material Plane?
AstralFireIX
10-29-07, 05:15 PM While that's extremely clever and I would probably allow it just on that basis alone, by RAW, no.
vorpo
10-29-07, 07:28 PM Transdimensional Power feat lets you affect incorporeal creatures and creatures on the ethereal plane or plane of shadow NORMALLY (as in, no need to roll miss chance). That's it. I don't even know how you get the feeling you can do all that you stated...
Slagger the Chuul
10-30-07, 01:40 AM Transdimensional Power is completely unnecessary unless the manifester is on the Material Plane while his targets are in the Ethereal Plane, Plane of Shadow, or an extradimensional space.

Technically speaking, psionic dimension door is already capable of interplanar travel (unlike psionic teleport, it isn't disallowed). While separate planes (like the Abyss) could reasonably be considered "out of range" since they share no physical relation whatsoever, coexistent planes (like the Ethereal Plane and Shadow Plane) overlap completely. All that Transdimensional Power allows you to do is grab hold of a target on one of those other planes so that you can bring them along.

If your DM rules that psionic dimension door cannot reach other planes (as well he might), Transdimensional Power is only useful with teleportation when a manifester on the Material Plane wants to bring his ethereal buddy/target along. In this case, the ethereal target ends up in an equivalent destination on the Ethereal Plane (which makes sense, since the Material Plane and Ethereal Plane are coexistent). This would also work for the Plane of Shadow but good luck finding your target in that case. On the plus side, this would work for both psionic dimension door and psionic teleport.

In summary, the Rules as Written allow psionic dimension door to cross planar boundaries all by itself, but your DM will probably rule against it.
CrimsonDeath
10-30-07, 02:29 AM The problem with that is that Psionic Dimension Door, like most (if not all) Conjuration (teleportation) and Psychoportation (teleportation) effects, uses the Astral Plane as a medium of transit. That is, you move through the Astral Plane from your starting point to your ending point. The problem here is that while the Ethereal and Shadow planes are coexistant with the Prime Material, and the Astral is (as I recall) coterminous with the Prime Material, the Astral is not (as I recall) coexistant or coterminous with the Ethereal or Shadow planes (so teleportation wouldn't work there).

Hmm... I can't find where it says exactly which planes are coexistant or coterminous. Can anybody cite book and page?
Slagger the Chuul
10-30-07, 02:55 AM The problem with that is that Psionic Dimension Door, like most (if not all) Conjuration (teleportation) and Psychoportation (teleportation) effects, uses the Astral Plane as a medium of transit. That is, you move through the Astral Plane from your starting point to your ending point. The problem here is that while the Ethereal and Shadow planes are coexistant with the Prime Material, and the Astral is (as I recall) coterminous with the Prime Material, the Astral is not (as I recall) coexistant or coterminous with the Ethereal or Shadow planes (so teleportation wouldn't work there).

Hmm... I can't find where it says exactly which planes are coexistant or coterminous. Can anybody cite book and page?

The Dungeon Master's Guide, page 150, "The D&D Cosmology".

In answer to your problem about the Astral Plane in particular, it notes:

All planes, including the Plane of Shadow and the Ethereal Plane, are coexistent with the Astral Plane, which envelops the whole cosmology like a cloud.
CrimsonDeath
10-30-07, 04:02 AM Cool, thanks.
crizh
10-30-07, 04:31 AM This would also work for the Plane of Shadow but good luck finding your target in that case.

Transdimensional Touchsight.

Or True Seeing obviously, I personally think Touchsight is a better power though. If you can manage to Widen them as well all the better.
Slagger the Chuul
10-30-07, 07:00 AM Transdimensional Touchsight.

Or True Seeing obviously, I personally think Touchsight is a better power though. If you can manage to Widen them as well all the better.

Transdimensional Power changes allows a power to affect transdimensional targets, but it doesn't change the actual effect produced by a power. The only way Transdimensional Power would be of any use with touchsight is if you were using some means to manifest it one someone else, assuming that they were transdimensional at the time.

True seeing allows you to focus your vision in order see into the Ethereal Plane, but not the Plane of Shadows.
crizh
10-30-07, 01:20 PM Having read through all three I suppose you are probably correct. Only by the very strictest reading of the language of both feat and powers however. I certainly wouldn't bother enforcing that sort of nit-picking in-game.

I was about to argue how Energy Burst and Energy Emanation would work differently given this ruling. Of course Energy Emanation is inconsistently written and works fine. Which just goes to illustrate a different point, that WOTC couldn't find their bum's with both hands and a map.

Energy Emanation ought to work like Fire Shield and be useless with Transdimensional Power.

If the power can be shown to be worded sloppily then I'm content to treat the Feat as worded sloppily. Perhaps the first line should read:

You can manifest powers whose effects may extend into coexistent planes and extradimensional spaces whose entrances are within the powers normal range or area of effect.
Knight0
10-30-07, 02:01 PM So the general concensus is No Transdimensional power cant be used on psionic dimension door or teleport to transport from one plane to another, but can be used on a target on another dimension and move them to the relevant point on their plane to where your teleporting on yours?
vorpo
10-30-07, 02:53 PM So the general concensus is No Transdimensional power cant be used on psionic dimension door or teleport to transport from one plane to another, but can be used on a target on another dimension and move them to the relevant point on their plane to where your teleporting on yours?

Transdimensional Power feat is used on powers to affect incorporeal creatures or creatures on the ethereal or shadow plane normally. That's it. The key word here is "to affect normally". It doesn't let you do anything to or with the planes themselves. In the shortest form: "You don't need to roll miss chance when targeting incorporeal creatures". Since none of your mentioned powers relate to miss chances, so, no, they aren't affected the way you think it can.
Slagger the Chuul
10-30-07, 11:06 PM I was about to argue how Energy Burst and Energy Emanation would work differently given this ruling. Of course Energy Emanation is inconsistently written and works fine. Which just goes to illustrate a different point, that WOTC couldn't find their bum's with both hands and a map.

Actually, both will work fine. Energy burst directly affects an area, and that area can be given transdimensional properties, and energy emanation probably should be described as an area, but works like one anyway because it directly affects an area. By comparison, powers like touchsight affect only the target; the effect is to grant the ability of being able to sense your surroundings, rather than the actual sensing ability itself.

So the general concensus is No Transdimensional power cant be used on psionic dimension door or teleport to transport from one plane to another, but can be used on a target on another dimension and move them to the relevant point on their plane to where your teleporting on yours?

Yes, unless your DM allows an exact reading of dimension door. :)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Knight0 10-29-07, 04:56 PM	Would Teleport and Dimension door work with transdimensional power to transport you and allies from the Ethereal to the Material Plane?
AstralFireIX 10-29-07, 05:15 PM	While that's extremely clever and I would probably allow it just on that basis alone, by RAW, no.
vorpo 10-29-07, 07:28 PM	Transdimensional Power feat lets you affect incorporeal creatures and creatures on the ethereal plane or plane of shadow NORMALLY (as in, no need to roll miss chance). That's it. I don't even know how you get the feeling you can do all that you stated...
Slagger the Chuul 10-30-07, 01:40 AM	Transdimensional Power is completely unnecessary unless the manifester is on the Material Plane while his targets are in the Ethereal Plane, Plane of Shadow, or an extradimensional space. Technically speaking, psionic dimension door is already capable of interplanar travel (unlike psionic teleport, it isn't disallowed). While separate planes (like the Abyss) could reasonably be considered "out of range" since they share no physical relation whatsoever, coexistent planes (like the Ethereal Plane and Shadow Plane) overlap completely. All that Transdimensional Power allows you to do is grab hold of a target on one of those other planes so that you can bring them along. If your DM rules that psionic dimension door cannot reach other planes (as well he might), Transdimensional Power is only useful with teleportation when a manifester on the Material Plane wants to bring his ethereal buddy/target along. In this case, the ethereal target ends up in an equivalent destination on the Ethereal Plane (which makes sense, since the Material Plane and Ethereal Plane are coexistent). This would also work for the Plane of Shadow but good luck finding your target in that case. On the plus side, this would work for both psionic dimension door and psionic teleport. In summary, the Rules as Written allow psionic dimension door to cross planar boundaries all by itself, but your DM will probably rule against it.
CrimsonDeath 10-30-07, 02:29 AM	The problem with that is that Psionic Dimension Door, like most (if not all) Conjuration (teleportation) and Psychoportation (teleportation) effects, uses the Astral Plane as a medium of transit. That is, you move through the Astral Plane from your starting point to your ending point. The problem here is that while the Ethereal and Shadow planes are coexistant with the Prime Material, and the Astral is (as I recall) coterminous with the Prime Material, the Astral is not (as I recall) coexistant or coterminous with the Ethereal or Shadow planes (so teleportation wouldn't work there). Hmm... I can't find where it says exactly which planes are coexistant or coterminous. Can anybody cite book and page?
Slagger the Chuul 10-30-07, 02:55 AM	The problem with that is that Psionic Dimension Door, like most (if not all) Conjuration (teleportation) and Psychoportation (teleportation) effects, uses the Astral Plane as a medium of transit. That is, you move through the Astral Plane from your starting point to your ending point. The problem here is that while the Ethereal and Shadow planes are coexistant with the Prime Material, and the Astral is (as I recall) coterminous with the Prime Material, the Astral is not (as I recall) coexistant or coterminous with the Ethereal or Shadow planes (so teleportation wouldn't work there). Hmm... I can't find where it says exactly which planes are coexistant or coterminous. Can anybody cite book and page? The Dungeon Master's Guide, page 150, "The D&D Cosmology". In answer to your problem about the Astral Plane in particular, it notes: All planes, including the Plane of Shadow and the Ethereal Plane, are coexistent with the Astral Plane, which envelops the whole cosmology like a cloud.
CrimsonDeath 10-30-07, 04:02 AM	Cool, thanks.
crizh 10-30-07, 04:31 AM	This would also work for the Plane of Shadow but good luck finding your target in that case. Transdimensional Touchsight. Or True Seeing obviously, I personally think Touchsight is a better power though. If you can manage to Widen them as well all the better.
Slagger the Chuul 10-30-07, 07:00 AM	Transdimensional Touchsight. Or True Seeing obviously, I personally think Touchsight is a better power though. If you can manage to Widen them as well all the better. Transdimensional Power changes allows a power to affect transdimensional targets, but it doesn't change the actual effect produced by a power. The only way Transdimensional Power would be of any use with touchsight is if you were using some means to manifest it one someone else, assuming that they were transdimensional at the time. True seeing allows you to focus your vision in order see into the Ethereal Plane, but not the Plane of Shadows.
crizh 10-30-07, 01:20 PM	Having read through all three I suppose you are probably correct. Only by the very strictest reading of the language of both feat and powers however. I certainly wouldn't bother enforcing that sort of nit-picking in-game. I was about to argue how Energy Burst and Energy Emanation would work differently given this ruling. Of course Energy Emanation is inconsistently written and works fine. Which just goes to illustrate a different point, that WOTC couldn't find their bum's with both hands and a map. Energy Emanation ought to work like Fire Shield and be useless with Transdimensional Power. If the power can be shown to be worded sloppily then I'm content to treat the Feat as worded sloppily. Perhaps the first line should read: You can manifest powers whose effects may extend into coexistent planes and extradimensional spaces whose entrances are within the powers normal range or area of effect.
Knight0 10-30-07, 02:01 PM	So the general concensus is No Transdimensional power cant be used on psionic dimension door or teleport to transport from one plane to another, but can be used on a target on another dimension and move them to the relevant point on their plane to where your teleporting on yours?
vorpo 10-30-07, 02:53 PM	So the general concensus is No Transdimensional power cant be used on psionic dimension door or teleport to transport from one plane to another, but can be used on a target on another dimension and move them to the relevant point on their plane to where your teleporting on yours? Transdimensional Power feat is used on powers to affect incorporeal creatures or creatures on the ethereal or shadow plane normally. That's it. The key word here is "to affect normally". It doesn't let you do anything to or with the planes themselves. In the shortest form: "You don't need to roll miss chance when targeting incorporeal creatures". Since none of your mentioned powers relate to miss chances, so, no, they aren't affected the way you think it can.
Slagger the Chuul 10-30-07, 11:06 PM	I was about to argue how Energy Burst and Energy Emanation would work differently given this ruling. Of course Energy Emanation is inconsistently written and works fine. Which just goes to illustrate a different point, that WOTC couldn't find their bum's with both hands and a map. Actually, both will work fine. Energy burst directly affects an area, and that area can be given transdimensional properties, and energy emanation probably should be described as an area, but works like one anyway because it directly affects an area. By comparison, powers like touchsight affect only the target; the effect is to grant the ability of being able to sense your surroundings, rather than the actual sensing ability itself. So the general concensus is No Transdimensional power cant be used on psionic dimension door or teleport to transport from one plane to another, but can be used on a target on another dimension and move them to the relevant point on their plane to where your teleporting on yours? Yes, unless your DM allows an exact reading of dimension door. :)