Transparency and School Immunity [Archive] - Wizards Community

Transparency and School Immunity [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
psipup
09-11-07, 01:40 AM A question on just how certain school-related abilities on the magic side would affect copycat effects on the psionics side. I'll give a specific example:

Half-fey have a +4 racial bonus against spells and effects from the Enchantment school. Okay. So if someone tries to Dominate Monster a half-fay, they get +4 on the save. Yay!

So, what happens when a Telepath spends toe needed augment and tries to Psionic Dominate the same Half-Fey? It's not, technically, of the 'enchantment school'.. It's of the 'Telepathy discipline'. But.. In essense, it's the exact same effect.

The transparency tells us quite well how dispelling, animagic/psionics, etc interacts with itself, but this one seems someone ill-defined. My gut says 'give 'em the bonus', but it seems to lose by technicallity.

Your thoughs, both on how it 'does' work and how it 'should' work, if they even differentiate to you?
Asadeseth
09-11-07, 02:34 AM This is one of the rare (and I do meen that) instances where Psionics gets off beter than Magic. No, the creature dose not get the bonas against Psionic Dominate as dispite the simalairtys psionics dose not use the school system.

But if your the GM its within your progative to say it dose, but be fair about it and tell your players about such house rules befor hand. I had a GM rule that the -4 save penalty for feeble mind effected Psions, after all it effected wizards and their int users (never mind sorc.), and he would make dissions like this mid game in the NPCs favor... very anoying, he didn't know how much it hurt his game.
AntiDjinn
09-11-07, 02:53 AM Technically, he gets a hefty bonus whether or not the DM using transparency. Isn't the half-fey's type "fey" (or at least something other than humanoid)? If so, then someone manifesting Dominate has to pay for 2 points of augmentation or the power simply fails due to inappropriate target selection. This means it effectively costs as much as a 5th level power to attempt. It also means a 7th or 8th level Telepath can't even make the attempt unless he overchannels (or has Practiced Manifester and at least 9 total character levels). And that is if an opponent knows to stack on those extra points (well, he may be doing it for DC anyway); augmentations don't tell you when they are needed. If you manifest Dominate and it fails, do you automatically know if the guy made his save, bounced it off power resistance, or is simply not a valid target for the points spent (fey, elan, etc.) or at any point total (undead, illusion, etc.)?
ArcTan
09-11-07, 03:03 AM Actually, I would say there *is* transparency between schools and disciplines. I mean, they even say so -- they tell you that the Telepathy discipline is the equivalent of the Enchantment school, that the Psychoportation discipline has no equivalent (and the Necromancy school has no equivalent), etc. It's all for the sake of transparency -- otherwise there'd be no point to it.

So yes, things that give you a bonus to Enchantment also give you a bonus to Telepathy. Things that protect you from Divination also protect you from Clairsentience. And so on.

For the purpose of psionics-magic transparency, clairsentience powers are equivalent to powers of the divination school (thus, creatures immune to divination spells are also immune to clairsentience powers).

See?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
psipup 09-11-07, 01:40 AM	A question on just how certain school-related abilities on the magic side would affect copycat effects on the psionics side. I'll give a specific example: Half-fey have a +4 racial bonus against spells and effects from the Enchantment school. Okay. So if someone tries to Dominate Monster a half-fay, they get +4 on the save. Yay! So, what happens when a Telepath spends toe needed augment and tries to Psionic Dominate the same Half-Fey? It's not, technically, of the 'enchantment school'.. It's of the 'Telepathy discipline'. But.. In essense, it's the exact same effect. The transparency tells us quite well how dispelling, animagic/psionics, etc interacts with itself, but this one seems someone ill-defined. My gut says 'give 'em the bonus', but it seems to lose by technicallity. Your thoughs, both on how it 'does' work and how it 'should' work, if they even differentiate to you?
Asadeseth 09-11-07, 02:34 AM	This is one of the rare (and I do meen that) instances where Psionics gets off beter than Magic. No, the creature dose not get the bonas against Psionic Dominate as dispite the simalairtys psionics dose not use the school system. But if your the GM its within your progative to say it dose, but be fair about it and tell your players about such house rules befor hand. I had a GM rule that the -4 save penalty for feeble mind effected Psions, after all it effected wizards and their int users (never mind sorc.), and he would make dissions like this mid game in the NPCs favor... very anoying, he didn't know how much it hurt his game.
AntiDjinn 09-11-07, 02:53 AM	Technically, he gets a hefty bonus whether or not the DM using transparency. Isn't the half-fey's type "fey" (or at least something other than humanoid)? If so, then someone manifesting Dominate has to pay for 2 points of augmentation or the power simply fails due to inappropriate target selection. This means it effectively costs as much as a 5th level power to attempt. It also means a 7th or 8th level Telepath can't even make the attempt unless he overchannels (or has Practiced Manifester and at least 9 total character levels). And that is if an opponent knows to stack on those extra points (well, he may be doing it for DC anyway); augmentations don't tell you when they are needed. If you manifest Dominate and it fails, do you automatically know if the guy made his save, bounced it off power resistance, or is simply not a valid target for the points spent (fey, elan, etc.) or at any point total (undead, illusion, etc.)?
ArcTan 09-11-07, 03:03 AM	Actually, I would say there is transparency between schools and disciplines. I mean, they even say so -- they tell you that the Telepathy discipline is the equivalent of the Enchantment school, that the Psychoportation discipline has no equivalent (and the Necromancy school has no equivalent), etc. It's all for the sake of transparency -- otherwise there'd be no point to it. So yes, things that give you a bonus to Enchantment also give you a bonus to Telepathy. Things that protect you from Divination also protect you from Clairsentience. And so on. For the purpose of psionics-magic transparency, clairsentience powers are equivalent to powers of the divination school (thus, creatures immune to divination spells are also immune to clairsentience powers). See?