True Thief [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

True Thief [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
jeek
08-13-07, 12:52 PM http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a

The "True Thief" Lurk variant looks particularly interesting to use as a psionics/rogue mix, but without having Search (edit: or Disable Device!) as a class skill it seems pretty unplayable. Trapfinding is all well and good until you realize that you can't ever get the ranks necessary to find the trap. Is there some sort of fix for this or was this design intentional?
Suldarr'essalar
08-13-07, 02:46 PM Try psychic rogue: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b

The expanded classes are not written by the same people (or even at the same time) as Complete Psionic, but the curse of that book haunts every attempt to do something good based on material from that book.
CrimsonDeath
08-13-07, 02:55 PM Or you could just house-rule that the True Thief Lurk has Search as a class skill (since that's most likely what was intended, considering the fact that every single class with Trapfinding also has Search and Disable Device as class skills-- see the Complete Adventurer errata concerning the Scout).
jeek
08-14-07, 11:41 AM The DM has house-ruled that I gain the class skills Search and Trapfinding, and lose Swim, Disguise, Knowledge (Psionics), and Psicraft, and that I must also take a rank each in Knowledge (Psionics) and Psicraft, spending 4 skill points total, to "make the character believable".
CrimsonDeath
08-14-07, 04:01 PM Trapfinding isn't a skill, though. It's a class feature that alters the way the Search and Disable Device skills work.

I'm not sure why you need to lose four class skills just to pick up one, and I'm not sure how taking cross-class ranks in two of those four skills makes a character any more "believable"...
jeek
08-14-07, 04:58 PM He sees it as me losing 4 useless skills to pick up 2 useful ones, and since I manifest powers I'd have to know some Psicraft. The Lurk (any version of it) does not have either Disable Device or Search as class skills, so I really am gaining two.

He thinks material printed is balanced as-is, and will not give me anything unless I'm giving something up.

It feels to me from other material I've seen (like the variant Ranger in Dungeonscape) that gaining Trapfinding as a class feature automatically gives you Search and Disable Device as class features.

If I have to take that many nerfs to play the variant Lurk, though, I might as well give up and just play a standard Rogue. I tried writing a msg to WotC_Mark to see if it was just an oversight, but I haven't heard back.
CrimsonDeath
08-14-07, 06:17 PM Hmm... His choice of those four skills seems a little arbitrary. Also, you may want to point out that the Psychic Warrior doesn't gain Psicraft as a class skill but manages to manifest powers.
awaken_D_M_golem
08-14-07, 07:08 PM Lurks seem to occupy their own little orbit.

Lurk - True Thief ditches the Lurk's own recharge set-up for Take 10 off of the Augment system.
Well that's OK. Not game breaking.
The 20th level augment deserves mention.
The save DC from the Assassin class is capped at a +10 for 10 levels, but the L-TT is a 20 level class.
That's a very very very high DC ... IFF (if and only if) that's how the DC is counted.
I say yes. It's a very good class capstone ability.

Take the feat that gets LAugs 2 level early and you can make a build with 2 levels of X or Y class.
Elocator 1 for the Sneak Attack on goo fun.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jeek 08-13-07, 12:52 PM	http://wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a The "True Thief" Lurk variant looks particularly interesting to use as a psionics/rogue mix, but without having Search (edit: or Disable Device!) as a class skill it seems pretty unplayable. Trapfinding is all well and good until you realize that you can't ever get the ranks necessary to find the trap. Is there some sort of fix for this or was this design intentional?
Suldarr'essalar 08-13-07, 02:46 PM	Try psychic rogue: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b The expanded classes are not written by the same people (or even at the same time) as Complete Psionic, but the curse of that book haunts every attempt to do something good based on material from that book.
CrimsonDeath 08-13-07, 02:55 PM	Or you could just house-rule that the True Thief Lurk has Search as a class skill (since that's most likely what was intended, considering the fact that every single class with Trapfinding also has Search and Disable Device as class skills-- see the Complete Adventurer errata concerning the Scout).
jeek 08-14-07, 11:41 AM	The DM has house-ruled that I gain the class skills Search and Trapfinding, and lose Swim, Disguise, Knowledge (Psionics), and Psicraft, and that I must also take a rank each in Knowledge (Psionics) and Psicraft, spending 4 skill points total, to "make the character believable".
CrimsonDeath 08-14-07, 04:01 PM	Trapfinding isn't a skill, though. It's a class feature that alters the way the Search and Disable Device skills work. I'm not sure why you need to lose four class skills just to pick up one, and I'm not sure how taking cross-class ranks in two of those four skills makes a character any more "believable"...
jeek 08-14-07, 04:58 PM	He sees it as me losing 4 useless skills to pick up 2 useful ones, and since I manifest powers I'd have to know some Psicraft. The Lurk (any version of it) does not have either Disable Device or Search as class skills, so I really am gaining two. He thinks material printed is balanced as-is, and will not give me anything unless I'm giving something up. It feels to me from other material I've seen (like the variant Ranger in Dungeonscape) that gaining Trapfinding as a class feature automatically gives you Search and Disable Device as class features. If I have to take that many nerfs to play the variant Lurk, though, I might as well give up and just play a standard Rogue. I tried writing a msg to WotC_Mark to see if it was just an oversight, but I haven't heard back.
CrimsonDeath 08-14-07, 06:17 PM	Hmm... His choice of those four skills seems a little arbitrary. Also, you may want to point out that the Psychic Warrior doesn't gain Psicraft as a class skill but manages to manifest powers.
awaken_D_M_golem 08-14-07, 07:08 PM	Lurks seem to occupy their own little orbit. Lurk - True Thief ditches the Lurk's own recharge set-up for Take 10 off of the Augment system. Well that's OK. Not game breaking. The 20th level augment deserves mention. The save DC from the Assassin class is capped at a +10 for 10 levels, but the L-TT is a 20 level class. That's a very very very high DC ... IFF (if and only if) that's how the DC is counted. I say yes. It's a very good class capstone ability. Take the feat that gets LAugs 2 level early and you can make a build with 2 levels of X or Y class. Elocator 1 for the Sneak Attack on goo fun.