typo for Energy Missile power [Archive] - Wizards Community

typo for Energy Missile power [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Roflobster
12-29-07, 06:01 PM In the Expanded Psionics Handbook it says that the 3rd level Kineticist power, Energy Missile, is augmentable in that every extra powerpoint you spend on it increases the damage by one die and the DC by one point. Increasing the DC by one point per powerpoint? seems a ridiculously overpowered to me. I checked the errata on this book and it doesn't mention this.
If you guys say the book is written correctly here, I'll take your word for it. Otherwise I'll assume it's meant that every two extra powerpoints increase the DC by one. Thanks for your opinion on it!
InkBlot
12-29-07, 06:13 PM It's not a typo. It's not overpowered as it first appears either. Eventually it'll be all but guaranteed that targets will take full damage (1d6/pp), but then there's still power resistance, energy resistance, and the simple fact that Hit Points scale faster than damage does. Take a look at all the higher-level direct-damage powers. They all either deal more than 1d6/pp, or have a special effect riding along.

Anyway, energy missle was nerfed, in exactly the way you propose, in Complete Psionic.
Jaid
12-29-07, 06:46 PM yeah, it's been changed in complete psionic. most people who have experience with it don't really see the need for it, and most equally don't particularly care about it. why, you ask? because it's a damaging effect. it pretty near already started as a waste of an action, at least at the levels where the save DC is all that impressive. by the time it's nigh-impossible to save against, you've got powers that will end the fight instantly, (and the wizard has more of them, and better ones), and no one really cares how probable it is for you to *gasp* actually do full damage (or any damage at all, depending on the target) to enemies. it simply isn't even a factor in the power's balance.

that said, go ahead and set it to 1/2 power points. it's not like it's going to have a significant effect on game balance either way, so if it makes you feel better about it, go ahead and nerf it. just don't be surprised when anyone with a brain just grabs save or <insert fight-ending effect here> powers instead.
Bacris
12-29-07, 07:18 PM FYI, this point in particular is covered in the stickied Myth thread.
Scion of Coldshard
12-30-07, 03:13 PM I've said it before but at some point I wouldnt care if energy power went to Save: No since the higher level you get the less likely the power is to matter anyway.

The only thing I change about it (along with some other spells and powers) is that it cannot target attended items.

One time coming across a creature with something like spell turning is likely to make the character wish they had some other power instead as well ;)
pfooti
01-08-08, 01:28 PM The only thing I change about it (along with some other spells and powers) is that it cannot target attended items.

That's actually the bigger problem. You get five missiles. If you want to be really, really mean, target the big ugly fighter, his armor, his shield, his weapon, and his hair with your sonic energy missile. His sword probably has only about 10-30 HP, and his armor only has about 20-60 HP. Two energy missiles, and your opponent fighter will be disarmed, unarmored, and bald. He might not be dead, but he might as well be.

It is sad that they nerfed the save DC in Complete Psionic, but inexcusable that they didn't fix the actual stupid part of that power.
flamepheonix182
01-08-08, 04:09 PM That's actually the bigger problem. You get five missiles. If you want to be really, really mean, target the big ugly fighter, his armor, his shield, his weapon, and his hair with your sonic energy missile. His sword probably has only about 10-30 HP, and his armor only has about 20-60 HP. Two energy missiles, and your opponent fighter will be disarmed, unarmored, and bald. He might not be dead, but he might as well be.

It is sad that they nerfed the save DC in Complete Psionic, but inexcusable that they didn't fix the actual stupid part of that power.

Wow I never thought about that. can energy missile actually target attended objects? If so is there any rules you could point me to that would support that? I would like to try that but my DM probably want a rules quote for that
pfooti
01-08-08, 04:32 PM Wow I never thought about that. can energy missile actually target attended objects? If so is there any rules you could point me to that would support that? I would like to try that but my DM probably want a rules quote for that

Well, I wouldn't recommend doing this, because it's a blatant abuse of what I imagine must be an oversight.

But if you look at the Energy Missile power description it clearly states that you can target objects with it, and there's no rule against using it on attended objects (spell analogs to it make specific mention of only being able to target unattended objects, so lacking a rule to the contrary...)

If you try and do that, though, it's only a matter of time before your DM whips it out on you. Shattering all the opponents' MW swords is a bummer. Having your Headband of Intellect destroyed is another kettle of fish entirely.
Scion of Coldshard
01-08-08, 04:41 PM Wow I never thought about that. can energy missile actually target attended objects?

There are actually a rather large number of spells and several powers which can hit attended objects. People generally just dont do it either because they dont think of it or because they realize the horrible chain of abuse it can lead to.

Chained dispel magic on all of your opponents gear followed by a chained shatter is going to leave people pretty unhappy no matter which side of the bench they are sitting.
CryoSilver
01-08-08, 05:06 PM Targeting high level gear is a bad idea, though, since you are, in fact, destroying the treasure...
Scion of Coldshard
01-08-08, 05:29 PM Targeting high level gear is a bad idea, though, since you are, in fact, destroying the treasure...

Likely you are destroying 'some' of the treasure in order to virtually assure victory. Hard to get treasure if you are the one losing because you really wanted that shiny bauble your enemy just used to kill you.
CryoSilver
01-08-08, 05:30 PM I have my doubts that any high-level fighter-type is a threat to any caster-type, but okay.
Katash
01-17-08, 12:08 AM Y'know since they nerfed it I find it VERY funny that the celestial conduit power (120ft line) has the same 1pt 1save DC increase.

Why nerf one and create another (admittedly not as useful since it's only a line vs instant hit.)
ReaderOfPosts
01-17-08, 05:59 PM Plus, some items like spell component pouches and holy symbols are of negligible cost and infinite use.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Roflobster 12-29-07, 06:01 PM	In the Expanded Psionics Handbook it says that the 3rd level Kineticist power, Energy Missile, is augmentable in that every extra powerpoint you spend on it increases the damage by one die and the DC by one point. Increasing the DC by one point per powerpoint? seems a ridiculously overpowered to me. I checked the errata on this book and it doesn't mention this. If you guys say the book is written correctly here, I'll take your word for it. Otherwise I'll assume it's meant that every two extra powerpoints increase the DC by one. Thanks for your opinion on it!
InkBlot 12-29-07, 06:13 PM	It's not a typo. It's not overpowered as it first appears either. Eventually it'll be all but guaranteed that targets will take full damage (1d6/pp), but then there's still power resistance, energy resistance, and the simple fact that Hit Points scale faster than damage does. Take a look at all the higher-level direct-damage powers. They all either deal more than 1d6/pp, or have a special effect riding along. Anyway, energy missle was nerfed, in exactly the way you propose, in Complete Psionic.
Jaid 12-29-07, 06:46 PM	yeah, it's been changed in complete psionic. most people who have experience with it don't really see the need for it, and most equally don't particularly care about it. why, you ask? because it's a damaging effect. it pretty near already started as a waste of an action, at least at the levels where the save DC is all that impressive. by the time it's nigh-impossible to save against, you've got powers that will end the fight instantly, (and the wizard has more of them, and better ones), and no one really cares how probable it is for you to gasp actually do full damage (or any damage at all, depending on the target) to enemies. it simply isn't even a factor in the power's balance. that said, go ahead and set it to 1/2 power points. it's not like it's going to have a significant effect on game balance either way, so if it makes you feel better about it, go ahead and nerf it. just don't be surprised when anyone with a brain just grabs save or <insert fight-ending effect here> powers instead.
Bacris 12-29-07, 07:18 PM	FYI, this point in particular is covered in the stickied Myth thread.
Scion of Coldshard 12-30-07, 03:13 PM	I've said it before but at some point I wouldnt care if energy power went to Save: No since the higher level you get the less likely the power is to matter anyway. The only thing I change about it (along with some other spells and powers) is that it cannot target attended items. One time coming across a creature with something like spell turning is likely to make the character wish they had some other power instead as well ;)
pfooti 01-08-08, 01:28 PM	The only thing I change about it (along with some other spells and powers) is that it cannot target attended items. That's actually the bigger problem. You get five missiles. If you want to be really, really mean, target the big ugly fighter, his armor, his shield, his weapon, and his hair with your sonic energy missile. His sword probably has only about 10-30 HP, and his armor only has about 20-60 HP. Two energy missiles, and your opponent fighter will be disarmed, unarmored, and bald. He might not be dead, but he might as well be. It is sad that they nerfed the save DC in Complete Psionic, but inexcusable that they didn't fix the actual stupid part of that power.
flamepheonix182 01-08-08, 04:09 PM	That's actually the bigger problem. You get five missiles. If you want to be really, really mean, target the big ugly fighter, his armor, his shield, his weapon, and his hair with your sonic energy missile. His sword probably has only about 10-30 HP, and his armor only has about 20-60 HP. Two energy missiles, and your opponent fighter will be disarmed, unarmored, and bald. He might not be dead, but he might as well be. It is sad that they nerfed the save DC in Complete Psionic, but inexcusable that they didn't fix the actual stupid part of that power. Wow I never thought about that. can energy missile actually target attended objects? If so is there any rules you could point me to that would support that? I would like to try that but my DM probably want a rules quote for that
pfooti 01-08-08, 04:32 PM	Wow I never thought about that. can energy missile actually target attended objects? If so is there any rules you could point me to that would support that? I would like to try that but my DM probably want a rules quote for that Well, I wouldn't recommend doing this, because it's a blatant abuse of what I imagine must be an oversight. But if you look at the Energy Missile power description it clearly states that you can target objects with it, and there's no rule against using it on attended objects (spell analogs to it make specific mention of only being able to target unattended objects, so lacking a rule to the contrary...) If you try and do that, though, it's only a matter of time before your DM whips it out on you. Shattering all the opponents' MW swords is a bummer. Having your Headband of Intellect destroyed is another kettle of fish entirely.
Scion of Coldshard 01-08-08, 04:41 PM	Wow I never thought about that. can energy missile actually target attended objects? There are actually a rather large number of spells and several powers which can hit attended objects. People generally just dont do it either because they dont think of it or because they realize the horrible chain of abuse it can lead to. Chained dispel magic on all of your opponents gear followed by a chained shatter is going to leave people pretty unhappy no matter which side of the bench they are sitting.
CryoSilver 01-08-08, 05:06 PM	Targeting high level gear is a bad idea, though, since you are, in fact, destroying the treasure...
Scion of Coldshard 01-08-08, 05:29 PM	Targeting high level gear is a bad idea, though, since you are, in fact, destroying the treasure... Likely you are destroying 'some' of the treasure in order to virtually assure victory. Hard to get treasure if you are the one losing because you really wanted that shiny bauble your enemy just used to kill you.
CryoSilver 01-08-08, 05:30 PM	I have my doubts that any high-level fighter-type is a threat to any caster-type, but okay.
Katash 01-17-08, 12:08 AM	Y'know since they nerfed it I find it VERY funny that the celestial conduit power (120ft line) has the same 1pt 1save DC increase. Why nerf one and create another (admittedly not as useful since it's only a line vs instant hit.)
ReaderOfPosts 01-17-08, 05:59 PM	Plus, some items like spell component pouches and holy symbols are of negligible cost and infinite use.