Unarmed Strikes and Claws of the Beast [Archive] - Wizards Community

Unarmed Strikes and Claws of the Beast [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
chatterofthesquirrel
03-29-07, 08:50 PM I'm thinking about creating a dex and wis-based Psychic Warrior with a level of Monk for the Wis-to-AC and Flurry of Blows ability.

But i'm not sure that Flurry would work with the natural weapons provided by the Claws of the Beast power, as Flurry specifically states "Unarmed strikes" and does not mention natural weapons.

Likewise, would i be able to perform a Stunning Fist attack with claws?

Can abilities that require an "unarmed strike" be performed with natural weapons?
Fireclave
03-29-07, 09:19 PM But i'm not sure that Flurry would work with the natural weapons provided by the Claws of the Beast power, as Flurry specifically states "Unarmed strikes" and do
You can only flurry with a limited number of weapons, and these weapons are spell out in the abilities description:

When using flurry of blows, a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham).

Claws are not unarmed strikes and are not listed as a special monk weapon, so you cannot flurry with them. Furthermore, because Flurry of Blows limits you to only those weapons, you cannot use your claws to make secondary attacks either.

Likewise, would i be able to perform a Stunning Fist attack with claws?

Nope. When you use a natural weapon, you are considered armed. Stunning Fist requires you to hit with an unarmed attack.

Can abilities that require an "unarmed strike" be performed with natural weapons?

If the ability specifically requires to hit with an unarmed strike, then the answer is no for the same reason as above.

Suggestion: A single level of monk is not going to get you much of of the monk class that you couldn't get with a Monk's Belt. If you want more attacks per round, you could either pick up the Rapid Strike feat chain (Draconomicon) or forgo using Claws of the Beast and pick up the TWF chain.
Azarias
03-29-07, 09:27 PM Fireclave is 90% right, though you could actually use your claws in addition to the flurry. You would take a -5 attack penalty (since the claws would be a secondary weapon) plus the flurry penalty (-2, decreasing at higher levels) and you'd only get half your Str on the claws, but per the Faq that's how it works.

A 9th level monk/Psiwarrior 1, for example, could get five attacks this way. That's not nearly as powerful as it sounds if you stat it out, though.
Fireclave
03-29-07, 09:41 PM Fireclave is 90% right, though you could actually use your claws in addition to the flurry. You would take a -5 attack penalty (since the claws would be a secondary weapon) plus the flurry penalty (-2, decreasing at higher levels) and you'd only get half your Str on the claws, but per the Faq that's how it works.

A 9th level monk/Psiwarrior 1, for example, could get five attacks this way. That's not nearly as powerful as it sounds if you stat it out, though.
By a strict reading of the rules, you can't flurry and use your claws. Note that it says a monk using Flurry of Blows can only attack with unarmed strikes or monk weapons. I'd allow it though, but that'd be a houserule.
chatterofthesquirrel
03-29-07, 09:42 PM Thanks for the clarifications guys :)

I may end up following the TWF chain after all. I like the concept of claws from a flavour perspective - a warrior that appears completely unarmed and unarmored, with high dexterity and weapon finesse, that can manifest claws and inertial armor in a round then psionic lion's charge at the enemy.

But eh, using a double weapon or dual-wielding would at least remove the need to spend lots of PP augmenting a claw power daily, as well as free up 1st level power slots. Will need to rethink it slightly :)
RorixBladewing
03-29-07, 09:58 PM If you like the 'power within' aspect, you might want to try looking at some of the Soulknife fixes. There are some really great concepts out there.
tetebetson
03-29-07, 11:04 PM By a strict reading of the rules, you can't flurry and use your claws. Note that it says a monk using Flurry of Blows can only attack with unarmed strikes or monk weapons. I'd allow it though, but that'd be a houserule.

if the claws are your own then you should be allowed
it just wouldnt be fair now ,wouldit:rolleyes:
Fireclave
03-30-07, 03:32 AM I may end up following the TWF chain after all. I like the concept of claws from a flavour perspective - a warrior that appears completely unarmed and unarmored, with high dexterity and weapon finesse, that can manifest claws and inertial armor in a round then psionic lion's charge at the enemy.

If its the flavor you are going for, stay a Psychic Warrior and take Improved Unarmed Strike and Versatile Unarmed Strike (PHII). The latter feat will allow you to make your unarmed attacks do piercing or slashing damage. Just describe your unarmed attacks as "claw" attacks, and use the TWF chain to "flurry."

Consider keeping your Str at least at 13 as well so you can have Power Attack as an option. Power Attack is useful for when you have to make use of a weapon and/or need to beat DR. Psy Wars get plenty of powers that can buffer the attack roll penalty.

Utilizing TWF and Power Attack while wielding a 2H weapon in tandem with your unarmed attacks as your off-hand weapon is another option as well (slashing kicks :cool:)
Azarias
03-30-07, 07:57 AM From the Faq:

Q: 'Can a monk who has natural weapon attacks attack unarmed and still use his natural weapons? Can he use flurry of blows and [natural attacks]?'

A: 'If the creature is normally alllowed to make both weapon and natural weapon attacks as part of the same full attack routine, the monk can do the same...The monk can't use his natural weapons as part of a flurry of blows, but he can make natural weapon attacks in addition to his flurry of blows. Such attacks suffer the same penalty as the monk's flurry attacks in addition to the normal -5 penalty for secondary natural attacks.'

...So, as a general rule, by the book, you can use natural attacks with a flurry.

There is an additional problem with Claws of the Beast, which is that the wording of the power specifically disallows its use with any other natural or manufactured weapon. That means that Flurry and Claws are out. On the other hand, you could take Bite of the Wolf. That power can be used with other attacks, and culd be used with flurry of blows.
Fireclave
03-30-07, 09:32 AM Thanks for clearing that up Azarias.
rooth
03-30-07, 10:44 AM EDIT: apologies, I somehow missed Azarias's post, so 95% of my post is redundant.

By a strict reading of the rules, you can't flurry and use your claws. Note that it says a monk using Flurry of Blows can only attack with unarmed strikes or monk weapons. I'd allow it though, but that'd be a houserule.
The rules specifically say you can only use attacks with unarmed strikes or monk weapons as part of a flurry, but it says nothing about attacks made in addition to the flurry. This finer point is well defined in the FAQ, using a Centaur as an example. The Centaur Monk flurries with his hands as normal, then follows up with two hoof attacks each at BAB - 7 (-5 for secondary attacks, -2 for the flurry penalty -- note that the flurry penalty also applies when making normal attacks outside the flurry routine, such as an extra attack from haste, or an attack of opportunity).

You can opt not to flurry, and still follow your unarmed strike routine with available natural weapon attacks. My 1/2 dragon monk gets up to 8 attacks this way (5 flurry, claw/claw/bite, though at high levels, claw/claw/bite has trouble penetrating DR, so I usually don't bother).

But the nail in the coffin to this idea is that you can't combine Claws of the Beast with any other attack. The power's description is pretty specific about this:
You can make an attack with one claw or a full attack with two claws at your normal attack bonus, replacing your normal attack routine ... If you attack with a manufactured weapon or another natural attack, you can't make any claw attacks in that round.
Your unarmed strikes count as a natural attack (without a level of monk), or as either a natural attack or manufactured weapon (with a level of monk). And so you can't combine them with Claws of the Beast. (I've been down this path; the aforementioned monk has some Fist of Zuoken levels, and I was drooling over Claws of the Beast options).

I expect the Rules of the Game: Unarmed Strikes (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20070327a) article series that just started last week will cover this at some point.

My advice: drop the Claws idea, and pick up Expansion (also a 1st level power). When there is room for them, Huge monks do fantastic unarmed damage, even without Improved Natural Attack.
Thraat
03-30-07, 10:47 AM Nope. When you use a natural weapon, you are considered armed. Stunning Fist requires you to hit with an unarmed attack.

:nonono:

I'm just going to have to disagree with this right now, and I am surprised that others have not commented on it earlier (unless I missed it).

IF it were also true, then I don't think monk levels would give you additional uses per day if you couldn't even use feat.

Improved Unarmed Strike [General]
Benefit
You are considered to be armed even when unarmed —that is, you do not provoke attacks or opportunity from armed opponents when you attack them while unarmed. However, you still get an attack of opportunity against any opponent who makes an unarmed attack on you.

In addition, your unarmed strikes can deal lethal or nonlethal damage, at your option.

Normal
Without this feat, you are considered unarmed when attacking with an unarmed strike, and you can deal only nonlethal damage with such an attack.

Stunning Fist has Improved Unarmed Attack as a prerequisite as well.

Also, I do believe natural weapons automatically give the creature the Improved Unarmed Attack feat (I know it has a special name for what the feat is called in this case, just don't have my copy of DMG with me at the moment).

Though, I am sorry if this touches a nerve, it isn't meant to be an attack or anything. And I will try to understand what was meant by the first quoted passage in my reply.

Though in response to the question of this thread...

Yes, natural attacks can be used to make stunning fist attempts. And its still, only once per round, once per day per 4 levels (or HD?). And you still deal the claws damage after the stunning fist attempt.
Sysane
03-30-07, 11:20 AM From the SRD:
“Armed” Unarmed Attacks: Sometimes a character’s or creature’s unarmed attack counts as an armed attack. A monk, a character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, a spellcaster delivering a touch attack spell, and a creature with natural physical weapons all count as being armed.
Don't know whether this has any pertinence to the thread, but thought it was worth its inclusion.

Personally, this would lead me to believe that a natural attack is still in the unarmed catagory.
rooth
03-30-07, 11:34 AM Stunning Fist requires an unarmed attack, per the second sentence in the description of the feat. Since an unarmed attack is a particular kind of natural attack (provokes attacks of opportunity, follows a different attack progression, typically does less damage), it seems that you cannot use Stunning Fist with a claw, tail, bite, tentacle, slam, or other natural attack. Only unarmed attacks (improved or not).

It would be like if a feat allowed you to do something with a particular kind of melee weapon, such as a Greatsword (e.g., Weapon Focus: Greatsword), you could not then apply it to all melee attacks, or even all swords (weapon mastery notwithstanding).

But perhaps the new Rules of the Game article series will clarify this.
Fireclave
03-30-07, 11:40 AM @Sysane
Thanks for the inclusion. I'd completely missed that section. Looks like I was wrong. You can stun with natural weapons. Which makes more sense to me anyway ;)

Also, I do believe natural weapons automatically give the creature the Improved Unarmed Attack feat (I know it has a special name for what the feat is called in this case, just don't have my copy of DMG with me at the moment).

Nope, but it's a common house rule that a creature with natural attacks is treated as having Improved Unarmed Attack when qualifying for feats. However, having a natural weapon does not grant you the Improved Unarmed Attack feat. Technically, if it did, there would be no need for the feat since unarmed attacks, without Improved Unarmed Attack, are still natural weapons. That would mean that every creature would get Improved Unarmed Attack for free.

And that would unbalance the game. How? 'Cause there would be kung-fu fighting in the streets, drunken boxing in our taverns, ninjas on our rooftops, and people yelling needlessly long names for their techniques day and night. It would be lawful anarchy all over the place. And we don't want that, now do we :P [/humor]
carnivore
03-30-07, 12:47 PM actually...look at what the Power says:
Claws of the Beast
Psychometabolism
Level: Psychic warrior 1
Display: Visual
Manifesting Time: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 hour/level
Power Points: see text

You call forth the aggressive nature of the beast inherent in yourself, psionically transforming your hands into deadly claws. You gain two natural attacks with your claws, each dealing 1d4 points of damage (1d6 if you are Large, or 1d3 if you are Small) plus your Strength bonus.

Your claws are natural weapons, so you are considered armed when attacking with them, and they can be affected by powers, spells, and effects that enhance or improve natural. You can choose to deal nonlethal damage with your claws, taking the standard -4 penalty on your attack roll.

Your claws work just like the natural weapons of many monsters. You can make an attack with one claw or a full attack with two claws at your normal attack bonus, replacing your normal attack routine. You take no penalties for two-weapon fighting, and neither attack is a secondary attack. If your base attack bonus is +6 or higher, you do not gain any additional attacks-you simply have two claw attacks at your normal attack bonus.

You can manifest this power with an instant thought, quickly enough to gain the benefit of the power on your turn before you attack. Manifesting this power is a swift action, like manifesting a quickened power, and it counts toward the normal limit of one quickened power per round. You cannot manifest this power when it isn’t your turn.

You can call or dismiss the claws as a swift action during the duration of the power. If you attack with a manufactured weapon or another natural attack, you can’t make any claw attacks in that round. You can still hold and manipulate items with your claws or cast spells just as well as you could with your hands.

Augment: If you spend additional power points, you can create larger, sharper, and more deadly claws, as shown on the table below.

Power Points Claw Damage

Small Medium Large

1 1d3 1d4 1d6

3 1d4 1d6 1d8

5 1d6 1d8 2d6

7 1d8 2d6 3d6

11 2d6 3d6 4d6

15 3d6 4d6 5d6

19 4d6 5d6 6d6

basically you only get 2 Claw attacks Period.......unless you have Rapid Strike or Improved Rapid strike....

:D
Thraat
03-30-07, 12:50 PM And that would unbalance the game. How? 'Cause there would be kung-fu fighting in the streets, drunken boxing in our taverns, ninjas on our rooftops, and people yelling needlessly long names for their techniques day and night. It would be lawful anarchy all over the place. And we don't want that, now do we :P [/humor]

:hides:

:monk:

but.. that is going on now... more so with the books: Complete Warrior (drunken master), Complete Adventurer (ninja), and Monks in general...

darn house rules. well, at least that part is clear.. maybe more so when I find my darned DMG... oh.. I think its called a Virtual feat.. not sure until I find the DMG..

have a good day

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
chatterofthesquirrel 03-29-07, 08:50 PM	I'm thinking about creating a dex and wis-based Psychic Warrior with a level of Monk for the Wis-to-AC and Flurry of Blows ability. But i'm not sure that Flurry would work with the natural weapons provided by the Claws of the Beast power, as Flurry specifically states "Unarmed strikes" and does not mention natural weapons. Likewise, would i be able to perform a Stunning Fist attack with claws? Can abilities that require an "unarmed strike" be performed with natural weapons?
Fireclave 03-29-07, 09:19 PM	But i'm not sure that Flurry would work with the natural weapons provided by the Claws of the Beast power, as Flurry specifically states "Unarmed strikes" and do You can only flurry with a limited number of weapons, and these weapons are spell out in the abilities description: When using flurry of blows, a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham). Claws are not unarmed strikes and are not listed as a special monk weapon, so you cannot flurry with them. Furthermore, because Flurry of Blows limits you to only those weapons, you cannot use your claws to make secondary attacks either. Likewise, would i be able to perform a Stunning Fist attack with claws? Nope. When you use a natural weapon, you are considered armed. Stunning Fist requires you to hit with an unarmed attack. Can abilities that require an "unarmed strike" be performed with natural weapons? If the ability specifically requires to hit with an unarmed strike, then the answer is no for the same reason as above. Suggestion: A single level of monk is not going to get you much of of the monk class that you couldn't get with a Monk's Belt. If you want more attacks per round, you could either pick up the Rapid Strike feat chain (Draconomicon) or forgo using Claws of the Beast and pick up the TWF chain.
Azarias 03-29-07, 09:27 PM	Fireclave is 90% right, though you could actually use your claws in addition to the flurry. You would take a -5 attack penalty (since the claws would be a secondary weapon) plus the flurry penalty (-2, decreasing at higher levels) and you'd only get half your Str on the claws, but per the Faq that's how it works. A 9th level monk/Psiwarrior 1, for example, could get five attacks this way. That's not nearly as powerful as it sounds if you stat it out, though.
Fireclave 03-29-07, 09:41 PM	Fireclave is 90% right, though you could actually use your claws in addition to the flurry. You would take a -5 attack penalty (since the claws would be a secondary weapon) plus the flurry penalty (-2, decreasing at higher levels) and you'd only get half your Str on the claws, but per the Faq that's how it works. A 9th level monk/Psiwarrior 1, for example, could get five attacks this way. That's not nearly as powerful as it sounds if you stat it out, though. By a strict reading of the rules, you can't flurry and use your claws. Note that it says a monk using Flurry of Blows can only attack with unarmed strikes or monk weapons. I'd allow it though, but that'd be a houserule.
chatterofthesquirrel 03-29-07, 09:42 PM	Thanks for the clarifications guys :) I may end up following the TWF chain after all. I like the concept of claws from a flavour perspective - a warrior that appears completely unarmed and unarmored, with high dexterity and weapon finesse, that can manifest claws and inertial armor in a round then psionic lion's charge at the enemy. But eh, using a double weapon or dual-wielding would at least remove the need to spend lots of PP augmenting a claw power daily, as well as free up 1st level power slots. Will need to rethink it slightly :)
RorixBladewing 03-29-07, 09:58 PM	If you like the 'power within' aspect, you might want to try looking at some of the Soulknife fixes. There are some really great concepts out there.
tetebetson 03-29-07, 11:04 PM	By a strict reading of the rules, you can't flurry and use your claws. Note that it says a monk using Flurry of Blows can only attack with unarmed strikes or monk weapons. I'd allow it though, but that'd be a houserule. if the claws are your own then you should be allowed it just wouldnt be fair now ,wouldit:rolleyes:
Fireclave 03-30-07, 03:32 AM	I may end up following the TWF chain after all. I like the concept of claws from a flavour perspective - a warrior that appears completely unarmed and unarmored, with high dexterity and weapon finesse, that can manifest claws and inertial armor in a round then psionic lion's charge at the enemy. If its the flavor you are going for, stay a Psychic Warrior and take Improved Unarmed Strike and Versatile Unarmed Strike (PHII). The latter feat will allow you to make your unarmed attacks do piercing or slashing damage. Just describe your unarmed attacks as "claw" attacks, and use the TWF chain to "flurry." Consider keeping your Str at least at 13 as well so you can have Power Attack as an option. Power Attack is useful for when you have to make use of a weapon and/or need to beat DR. Psy Wars get plenty of powers that can buffer the attack roll penalty. Utilizing TWF and Power Attack while wielding a 2H weapon in tandem with your unarmed attacks as your off-hand weapon is another option as well (slashing kicks :cool:)
Azarias 03-30-07, 07:57 AM	From the Faq: Q: 'Can a monk who has natural weapon attacks attack unarmed and still use his natural weapons? Can he use flurry of blows and [natural attacks]?' A: 'If the creature is normally alllowed to make both weapon and natural weapon attacks as part of the same full attack routine, the monk can do the same...The monk can't use his natural weapons as part of a flurry of blows, but he can make natural weapon attacks in addition to his flurry of blows. Such attacks suffer the same penalty as the monk's flurry attacks in addition to the normal -5 penalty for secondary natural attacks.' ...So, as a general rule, by the book, you can use natural attacks with a flurry. There is an additional problem with Claws of the Beast, which is that the wording of the power specifically disallows its use with any other natural or manufactured weapon. That means that Flurry and Claws are out. On the other hand, you could take Bite of the Wolf. That power can be used with other attacks, and culd be used with flurry of blows.
Fireclave 03-30-07, 09:32 AM	Thanks for clearing that up Azarias.
rooth 03-30-07, 10:44 AM	EDIT: apologies, I somehow missed Azarias's post, so 95% of my post is redundant. By a strict reading of the rules, you can't flurry and use your claws. Note that it says a monk using Flurry of Blows can only attack with unarmed strikes or monk weapons. I'd allow it though, but that'd be a houserule. The rules specifically say you can only use attacks with unarmed strikes or monk weapons as part of a flurry, but it says nothing about attacks made in addition to the flurry. This finer point is well defined in the FAQ, using a Centaur as an example. The Centaur Monk flurries with his hands as normal, then follows up with two hoof attacks each at BAB - 7 (-5 for secondary attacks, -2 for the flurry penalty -- note that the flurry penalty also applies when making normal attacks outside the flurry routine, such as an extra attack from haste, or an attack of opportunity). You can opt not to flurry, and still follow your unarmed strike routine with available natural weapon attacks. My 1/2 dragon monk gets up to 8 attacks this way (5 flurry, claw/claw/bite, though at high levels, claw/claw/bite has trouble penetrating DR, so I usually don't bother). But the nail in the coffin to this idea is that you can't combine Claws of the Beast with any other attack. The power's description is pretty specific about this: You can make an attack with one claw or a full attack with two claws at your normal attack bonus, replacing your normal attack routine ... If you attack with a manufactured weapon or another natural attack, you can't make any claw attacks in that round. Your unarmed strikes count as a natural attack (without a level of monk), or as either a natural attack or manufactured weapon (with a level of monk). And so you can't combine them with Claws of the Beast. (I've been down this path; the aforementioned monk has some Fist of Zuoken levels, and I was drooling over Claws of the Beast options). I expect the Rules of the Game: Unarmed Strikes (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20070327a) article series that just started last week will cover this at some point. My advice: drop the Claws idea, and pick up Expansion (also a 1st level power). When there is room for them, Huge monks do fantastic unarmed damage, even without Improved Natural Attack.
Thraat 03-30-07, 10:47 AM	Nope. When you use a natural weapon, you are considered armed. Stunning Fist requires you to hit with an unarmed attack. :nonono: I'm just going to have to disagree with this right now, and I am surprised that others have not commented on it earlier (unless I missed it). IF it were also true, then I don't think monk levels would give you additional uses per day if you couldn't even use feat. Improved Unarmed Strike [General] Benefit You are considered to be armed even when unarmed —that is, you do not provoke attacks or opportunity from armed opponents when you attack them while unarmed. However, you still get an attack of opportunity against any opponent who makes an unarmed attack on you. In addition, your unarmed strikes can deal lethal or nonlethal damage, at your option. Normal Without this feat, you are considered unarmed when attacking with an unarmed strike, and you can deal only nonlethal damage with such an attack. Stunning Fist has Improved Unarmed Attack as a prerequisite as well. Also, I do believe natural weapons automatically give the creature the Improved Unarmed Attack feat (I know it has a special name for what the feat is called in this case, just don't have my copy of DMG with me at the moment). Though, I am sorry if this touches a nerve, it isn't meant to be an attack or anything. And I will try to understand what was meant by the first quoted passage in my reply. Though in response to the question of this thread... Yes, natural attacks can be used to make stunning fist attempts. And its still, only once per round, once per day per 4 levels (or HD?). And you still deal the claws damage after the stunning fist attempt.
Sysane 03-30-07, 11:20 AM	From the SRD: “Armed” Unarmed Attacks: Sometimes a character’s or creature’s unarmed attack counts as an armed attack. A monk, a character with the Improved Unarmed Strike feat, a spellcaster delivering a touch attack spell, and a creature with natural physical weapons all count as being armed. Don't know whether this has any pertinence to the thread, but thought it was worth its inclusion. Personally, this would lead me to believe that a natural attack is still in the unarmed catagory.
rooth 03-30-07, 11:34 AM	Stunning Fist requires an unarmed attack, per the second sentence in the description of the feat. Since an unarmed attack is a particular kind of natural attack (provokes attacks of opportunity, follows a different attack progression, typically does less damage), it seems that you cannot use Stunning Fist with a claw, tail, bite, tentacle, slam, or other natural attack. Only unarmed attacks (improved or not). It would be like if a feat allowed you to do something with a particular kind of melee weapon, such as a Greatsword (e.g., Weapon Focus: Greatsword), you could not then apply it to all melee attacks, or even all swords (weapon mastery notwithstanding). But perhaps the new Rules of the Game article series will clarify this.
Fireclave 03-30-07, 11:40 AM	@Sysane Thanks for the inclusion. I'd completely missed that section. Looks like I was wrong. You can stun with natural weapons. Which makes more sense to me anyway ;) Also, I do believe natural weapons automatically give the creature the Improved Unarmed Attack feat (I know it has a special name for what the feat is called in this case, just don't have my copy of DMG with me at the moment). Nope, but it's a common house rule that a creature with natural attacks is treated as having Improved Unarmed Attack when qualifying for feats. However, having a natural weapon does not grant you the Improved Unarmed Attack feat. Technically, if it did, there would be no need for the feat since unarmed attacks, without Improved Unarmed Attack, are still natural weapons. That would mean that every creature would get Improved Unarmed Attack for free. And that would unbalance the game. How? 'Cause there would be kung-fu fighting in the streets, drunken boxing in our taverns, ninjas on our rooftops, and people yelling needlessly long names for their techniques day and night. It would be lawful anarchy all over the place. And we don't want that, now do we :P [/humor]
carnivore 03-30-07, 12:47 PM	actually...look at what the Power says: Claws of the Beast Psychometabolism Level: Psychic warrior 1 Display: Visual Manifesting Time: 1 swift action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 1 hour/level Power Points: see text You call forth the aggressive nature of the beast inherent in yourself, psionically transforming your hands into deadly claws. You gain two natural attacks with your claws, each dealing 1d4 points of damage (1d6 if you are Large, or 1d3 if you are Small) plus your Strength bonus. Your claws are natural weapons, so you are considered armed when attacking with them, and they can be affected by powers, spells, and effects that enhance or improve natural. You can choose to deal nonlethal damage with your claws, taking the standard -4 penalty on your attack roll. Your claws work just like the natural weapons of many monsters. You can make an attack with one claw or a full attack with two claws at your normal attack bonus, replacing your normal attack routine. You take no penalties for two-weapon fighting, and neither attack is a secondary attack. If your base attack bonus is +6 or higher, you do not gain any additional attacks-you simply have two claw attacks at your normal attack bonus. You can manifest this power with an instant thought, quickly enough to gain the benefit of the power on your turn before you attack. Manifesting this power is a swift action, like manifesting a quickened power, and it counts toward the normal limit of one quickened power per round. You cannot manifest this power when it isn’t your turn. You can call or dismiss the claws as a swift action during the duration of the power. If you attack with a manufactured weapon or another natural attack, you can’t make any claw attacks in that round. You can still hold and manipulate items with your claws or cast spells just as well as you could with your hands. Augment: If you spend additional power points, you can create larger, sharper, and more deadly claws, as shown on the table below. Power Points Claw Damage Small Medium Large 1 1d3 1d4 1d6 3 1d4 1d6 1d8 5 1d6 1d8 2d6 7 1d8 2d6 3d6 11 2d6 3d6 4d6 15 3d6 4d6 5d6 19 4d6 5d6 6d6 basically you only get 2 Claw attacks Period.......unless you have Rapid Strike or Improved Rapid strike.... :D
Thraat 03-30-07, 12:50 PM	And that would unbalance the game. How? 'Cause there would be kung-fu fighting in the streets, drunken boxing in our taverns, ninjas on our rooftops, and people yelling needlessly long names for their techniques day and night. It would be lawful anarchy all over the place. And we don't want that, now do we :P [/humor] :hides: :monk: but.. that is going on now... more so with the books: Complete Warrior (drunken master), Complete Adventurer (ninja), and Monks in general... darn house rules. well, at least that part is clear.. maybe more so when I find my darned DMG... oh.. I think its called a Virtual feat.. not sure until I find the DMG.. have a good day