Unbodied Telepath [Archive] - Wizards Community

Unbodied Telepath [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Favored Enemy
11-29-07, 03:05 AM Anyone played an Unbodied Telepath?

Any good?

I'd imagine it would be a nightmare for the DM.
Tedronai
11-29-07, 03:39 AM It's one hell of a difficult PC to put in serious danger, but it's also incredibly frustrating for most players, as well, because you'll be extrememly hard-pressed to acquire, use, or retrieve ANY equipment or loot without resorting to extreme measures (up to and including Reality Revision, depending on the other books you have available to you, and the interpretations of the DM)
DracoPhoenix
11-29-07, 04:43 AM It's one hell of a difficult PC to put in serious danger, but it's also incredibly frustrating for most players, as well, because you'll be extrememly hard-pressed to acquire, use, or retrieve ANY equipment or loot without resorting to extreme measures (up to and including Reality Revision, depending on the other books you have available to you, and the interpretations of the DM)

Yeah, you'd either need to persuade the DM to allow VoP, or play the Uncarnate, who can carry items while incorporeal. (Admittedly that doesn't kick in full time until L15). Which incidentally also has a effective +4LA to ML.

Both the DMs I play have banned both on the grounds that they're too difficult to directly attack. (my power gaming tendancies don't really allow for a "lets try it" approach)
SlanderPanic
11-29-07, 10:43 AM Too difficult to attack? An unbodied without class levels is ECL 8, so the challenges its party is facing should be able to dish it some damage. The 50% miss chance is a bummer, it's true, but the unbodied won't have that many hit points anyway. And, heck, even a lowly 1st level wizard can zap it with a magic missile. One fighter with a ghost touch weapon could very easily ruin an unbodied's day.

That said, unbodied are a lot of fun to play, especially in roleplay-heavy campaigns. They're very good at infiltration and scouting. In combat, your best strategy is probably going to be using telekinetic force to grab an enemy's armor or clothing and then floating up into the air with them. After a few rounds of that, just let them go. It's especially fun to drop them into a hazard or on top of one of their allies.

I have an unbodied NPC I occasionally recycle in my campaign. Earlier this year, I had the PCs fighting off a salamander army that was invading a dwarf kingdom. They were in a cavern with a shaft that led directly into the cavern below, where the salamanders were amassing for their next big push. That's when they were attacked by the unbodied NPC's party: an evil mercenary group hired by one of the campaign's recurring villains to kill them.

The unbodied grabbed the bard PC's armor (after the bard failed his Will save) and started maneuvering him toward the shaft. The players knew that falling down the shaft was certain death: If the fall didn't kill them, the salamanders would. Unfortunately for the bad guys, telekinetic force is slow: You can move your held object 20 feet per round. This gave the bard plenty of chances to escape. He finally cast shatter, targeted on his own chain shirt, managing to get out right before the unbodied could lift him over the shaft and then drop him.

Anyway, for an unbodied PC, I'd strongly suggest developing a group of cover identities and other forms. Remember that subtlety is your strongest suit, in or out of combat. If it takes the enemies a few rounds to figure out that the cowering kobold in the corner is what's hitting them with ego whip or causing them to fly into the acid pool, that's time you get to spend not being a target. The moment they figure out the connection, you shift to a scary form and duck into the floor or a wall, popping out to wreak further havoc on them.

Remember also that you're not as powerful as the party's primary manifester or spellcaster. Practiced Manifester doesn't help, since your ML is already equal to your hit dice. You have to make up for this by using your other abilities to be useful. Be clever. Be bold. Even though an unbodied doesn't have a physical form, a good unbodied PC has plenty of guts. He'll need them if he wants to sneak ahead and then kill and impersonate the chief of the goblin tribe the PCs are fighting with.

If you want to go the spy route, consider taking levels in psychic rogue instead of telepath. The manifester levels don't stack, but a psychic rogue's skills and abilities are more in-line with what an unbodied already does best. If you have Complete Psionic, the lurk is also complimentary, though it's more killing-focused than psychic rogue. The ebon saint prestige class from the same book is also worth looking into. (Were I your DM, I'd waive the Move Silently requirement, since it's a waste of skill ranks for an incorporeal creature.)

If you have Untapped Potential, try a society mind. When you think about it, it's a very logical fit for unbodied, who are all about the interactions of minds.

Someone suggested Vow of Poverty earlier. I'm going to argue against it. The point of Vow of Poverty is that you're making a great sacrifice, giving up your material possessions to achieve enlightenment. An unbodied doesn't have much need for material possessions to begin with, so giving them up isn't as big a sacrifice. An unbodied already represents a level of enlightenment beyond -and incompatible with- the enlightenment of a corporeal character who chooses to live an ascetic lifestyle.
Zathress
11-30-07, 12:05 AM Keep in mind ANY CREATURE that does not have a +1 enchantment on its weapons will FAIL to hit an unbodied in melee combat.
There is a 50% miss chance if the weapon in question has at least a +1 enchantment.

Say your fighting the Tras. The Trasq is not capable of damaging an unbodied. Its weapons may COUNT as epic magic for over coming damage reduction but that doesn't mean crap when trying to hit an incorporeal creature. (yes a monk with ki strike magic can't hit incorporeal creatures either).

A 100% miss chance on most monsters is a big deal as usually only weapons will have actually enchantment bonus on them. That really narrows down the defenses an Unbodied would need.

The ghost walk campaign setting likely has info on how incorporeal creatures can use equipment.
Actually i know they do, they have stuff to make more kinds of ghost touch items which would allow you to get equipment.
Tedronai
11-30-07, 02:08 AM Hide in the floor with a Burrowing Touchsight active. You can see them, they can't see you. Take Flyby Attack along with that, and you don't even have to use Burrowing Power on your attack options (though it helps on the Touchsight by allowing you to avoid emerging only to be hit by a readied action), saving boatloads of PPs.
hogarth
11-30-07, 07:15 AM For one more LA, the Ghost template is much better than the Unbodied race. You get access to magic items (if you can bring them to the ethereal plane via Blink or something), you get powerful (Su) abilities like Telekinesis and Malevolence, and you can dump your Constitution score.
Tedronai
11-30-07, 07:31 AM For one more LA, the Ghost template is much better than the Unbodied race. You get access to magic items (if you can bring them to the ethereal plane via Blink or something), you get powerful (Su) abilities like Telekinesis and Malevolence, and you can dump your Constitution score.

You're also technically UNKILLABLE by all but one specific means (set at time of creation, and could easily be so specific or complex as to make it nigh impossible: until you can personally bear witness to the retreival of a particular, though unvaluable trinket, and its return to its lawful owner or heir - whose identity is lost to history), which will cause the vast majority of DMs to hit this with the largest nerf-stick retreivable in the time alloted.

At least the Unbodied CAN be killed, as difficult as that would be in the hands of a competent player. And the lack of equipment can easily be spun to help convince a DM to allow such a character despite it's strengths (view it as a variant VoP that fails to scale with level and is only available starting at ECL 8, including an accompanying +4 lvl adj)
InkBlot
11-30-07, 02:27 PM That would be a problem, if it were the DM's job to kill the player's characters. It's the DM's job to fail to kill the player's character. When you DM you have to let the players win without letting them know you let them win.

Whether or not being a practically unkillable ghost is a problem is a matter of what constitutes "winning" to the player. Ghosts reconstitute themselves only after 2-8 days and only in one specified location. Being "killed" as a ghost means that you're out of the action long enough for the rest of the party to loot the dungeon without you; long enough for the evil priest to sacrifice the princess to his dark master; long enough for the overlord to take over the world. It also means that you dropped all the equipment you gained recently in a place that's dangerous enough to destroy you.

Most DMs will dissalow ghost PCs because they're hard to kill, but that's just not a good reason.

Edit: There's also a DC 16 level check that needs to be made. If you fail, you're gone for good.
Rejuvenation (Su): In most cases, it’s difficult to destroy a ghost through simple combat: The “destroyed” spirit will often restore itself in 2d4 days. Even the most powerful spells are usually only temporary solutions. A ghost that would otherwise be destroyed returns to its old haunts with a successful level check (1d20 + ghost’s HD) against DC 16. As a rule, the only way to get rid of a ghost for sure is to determine the reason for its existence and set right whatever prevents it from resting in peace. The exact means varies with each spirit and may require a good deal of research.
Favored Enemy
11-30-07, 03:46 PM Interesting responses. I hadn't considered what a setback being incorporeal really is. Not being able to use magic items or gather treasure is a real inhibitor. I guess the rest of the party would be pretty happy about getting an extra cut of the loot.

It also brings the characters motives into question. For the incorporeal, no longer is it a case of, "he who dies with the most toys wins." I wonder what would keep this guy going throughout a full campaign.

In the EPH, it says that Unbodied can move silently if they want to. How do incorporeal move loudly? Come to think of it, how can they really mimic people up close to a level that would fool anyone but the deaf and blind? "Strange how that guy walks on grass but doesn't bend the blades..."
hogarth
12-01-07, 10:29 AM Interesting responses. I hadn't considered what a setback being incorporeal really is. Not being able to use magic items or gather treasure is a real inhibitor. I guess the rest of the party would be pretty happy about getting an extra cut of the loot.
Note that Savage Species has a rule for adding the Ghost Touch ability to any item (just add 10% if it's not an armor or weapon).
CrimsonDeath
12-01-07, 12:46 PM Note that Savage Species has a rule for adding the Ghost Touch ability to any item (just add 10% if it's not an armor or weapon).

Although that doesn't really help the Unbodied very much because they don't have any body slots. They can't use helmets, masks, amulets, armor, robes, vests, cloaks, gloves, belts, rings, or boots (or any other items that take up similar locatiosn on the body). They also can't use weapons, power stones, scrolls, potions, oils, wands, staves, psychoactive skins, psionic tattoos, or rods, and an argument could be made that they can't use ioun stones. And most wondrous and miscellaneous items require that you hold, carry, throw, or otherwise physically manipulate them.

That doesn't leave a whole lot of gear for them to use.
hogarth
12-01-07, 05:33 PM Although that doesn't really help the Unbodied very much because they don't have any body slots. They can't use helmets, masks, amulets, armor, robes, vests, cloaks, gloves, belts, rings, or boots (or any other items that take up similar locatiosn on the body).
Does it say that in the XPH? 'Cause it doesn't say anything like that in the SRD; in fact it says that an unbodied can assume any shape it desires (presumably including one that can use helmets, masks, amulets, armor, robes, vests, cloaks, gloves, belts, rings, or boots).
CrimsonDeath
12-01-07, 05:48 PM Does it say that in the XPH? 'Cause it doesn't say anything like that in the SRD; in fact it says that an unbodied can assume any shape it desires (presumably including one that can use helmets, masks, amulets, armor, robes, vests, cloaks, gloves, belts, rings, or boots).

Hmm... For some reason I thought that the "shape" it was taking was merely an illusion.

Never mind; carry on.
Tugg
12-03-07, 12:12 PM I think there is a feat in Libris Mortis that allows incorpreal creatures to manipulate objects. That'd make playing an Unbodied alot easier.
CrimsonDeath
12-03-07, 12:51 PM I think there is a feat in Libris Mortis that allows incorpreal creatures to manipulate objects. That'd make playing an Unbodied alot easier.

Ghostly Grasp. It requires 15 Charisma and the Incorporeal subtype.
Omen_of_Peace
12-03-07, 06:45 PM And with the most recent incorporeal rules (MM3/ToB), a corporeal item that comes into your possession becomes incorporeal. So Ghost Touch gloves are enough. (Many implications of this rule are unclear, so checking things with the DM is wise.)
Nerick_Zinekamcen
12-11-07, 09:57 PM one thing I noticed when reading about it. XPH doesn't say what the unbodied's natural form is.
DracoPhoenix
12-12-07, 02:30 AM one thing I noticed when reading about it. XPH doesn't say what the unbodied's natural form is.

Usually self defined. anything from humanoid to floating brain. It's more of a fluff thing
Haldrik
12-12-07, 04:44 PM Certain concepts like Incorporeality (Phasing), Flying, and so on, may be disruptive to game play or game narrative but are so important for the fantasy genre its wrong to nerf them out of existence. Rather the game should find ways to make them standard features (or at least standard options) for appropriate level characters.

For example, our houserules make Incorporeality balanced, because lo-bonus magic weapons are ubiquitous and attack corporeal creatures normally, and Force is an effective barrier to shut them out, as well as our version of the 1st-level spell Protection (= Protection from Evil) and related spells. Thus simple spells prevent narrative spoilers where necessary.

Likewise, Fly is just a normal part of hi-level campaigns, and everybody both PC allies and foes are accustomed to dealing with Flying creatures.

Also worth mentioning, Scry. A creature under magical observation ALWAYS has a Will save to detect a vague feeling of 'being watched'. Thus mundane monsters are alerted, and spellcasting monsters can begin counter-scrying powers to locate the source of Scry. This makes Scry balanced and likewise PCs appreciate knowing when monsters are spying on them. Likewise, we say Force and Protection block Scry as well, albeit the Scrier realizes the observation is being blocked by Force or Protection, unlike a Nondetection effect where the Scrier is simply unaware.

With minimum attention, these spells are no big deal.
TevolRia
12-13-07, 12:46 PM I personaly like the concept of an unbodied who uses an identity of a master thief. he leaves no clues and baffles the local law inforcement.
DracoPhoenix
12-13-07, 01:38 PM I personaly like the concept of an unbodied who uses an identity of a master thief. he leaves no clues and baffles the local law inforcement.

If you want to baffle the law, just sink into the floor, travel along under the vault door, nick the contents into an assumed handy haversack and travel out through the floor again.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Favored Enemy 11-29-07, 03:05 AM	Anyone played an Unbodied Telepath? Any good? I'd imagine it would be a nightmare for the DM.
Tedronai 11-29-07, 03:39 AM	It's one hell of a difficult PC to put in serious danger, but it's also incredibly frustrating for most players, as well, because you'll be extrememly hard-pressed to acquire, use, or retrieve ANY equipment or loot without resorting to extreme measures (up to and including Reality Revision, depending on the other books you have available to you, and the interpretations of the DM)
DracoPhoenix 11-29-07, 04:43 AM	It's one hell of a difficult PC to put in serious danger, but it's also incredibly frustrating for most players, as well, because you'll be extrememly hard-pressed to acquire, use, or retrieve ANY equipment or loot without resorting to extreme measures (up to and including Reality Revision, depending on the other books you have available to you, and the interpretations of the DM) Yeah, you'd either need to persuade the DM to allow VoP, or play the Uncarnate, who can carry items while incorporeal. (Admittedly that doesn't kick in full time until L15). Which incidentally also has a effective +4LA to ML. Both the DMs I play have banned both on the grounds that they're too difficult to directly attack. (my power gaming tendancies don't really allow for a "lets try it" approach)
SlanderPanic 11-29-07, 10:43 AM	Too difficult to attack? An unbodied without class levels is ECL 8, so the challenges its party is facing should be able to dish it some damage. The 50% miss chance is a bummer, it's true, but the unbodied won't have that many hit points anyway. And, heck, even a lowly 1st level wizard can zap it with a magic missile. One fighter with a ghost touch weapon could very easily ruin an unbodied's day. That said, unbodied are a lot of fun to play, especially in roleplay-heavy campaigns. They're very good at infiltration and scouting. In combat, your best strategy is probably going to be using telekinetic force to grab an enemy's armor or clothing and then floating up into the air with them. After a few rounds of that, just let them go. It's especially fun to drop them into a hazard or on top of one of their allies. I have an unbodied NPC I occasionally recycle in my campaign. Earlier this year, I had the PCs fighting off a salamander army that was invading a dwarf kingdom. They were in a cavern with a shaft that led directly into the cavern below, where the salamanders were amassing for their next big push. That's when they were attacked by the unbodied NPC's party: an evil mercenary group hired by one of the campaign's recurring villains to kill them. The unbodied grabbed the bard PC's armor (after the bard failed his Will save) and started maneuvering him toward the shaft. The players knew that falling down the shaft was certain death: If the fall didn't kill them, the salamanders would. Unfortunately for the bad guys, telekinetic force is slow: You can move your held object 20 feet per round. This gave the bard plenty of chances to escape. He finally cast shatter, targeted on his own chain shirt, managing to get out right before the unbodied could lift him over the shaft and then drop him. Anyway, for an unbodied PC, I'd strongly suggest developing a group of cover identities and other forms. Remember that subtlety is your strongest suit, in or out of combat. If it takes the enemies a few rounds to figure out that the cowering kobold in the corner is what's hitting them with ego whip or causing them to fly into the acid pool, that's time you get to spend not being a target. The moment they figure out the connection, you shift to a scary form and duck into the floor or a wall, popping out to wreak further havoc on them. Remember also that you're not as powerful as the party's primary manifester or spellcaster. Practiced Manifester doesn't help, since your ML is already equal to your hit dice. You have to make up for this by using your other abilities to be useful. Be clever. Be bold. Even though an unbodied doesn't have a physical form, a good unbodied PC has plenty of guts. He'll need them if he wants to sneak ahead and then kill and impersonate the chief of the goblin tribe the PCs are fighting with. If you want to go the spy route, consider taking levels in psychic rogue instead of telepath. The manifester levels don't stack, but a psychic rogue's skills and abilities are more in-line with what an unbodied already does best. If you have Complete Psionic, the lurk is also complimentary, though it's more killing-focused than psychic rogue. The ebon saint prestige class from the same book is also worth looking into. (Were I your DM, I'd waive the Move Silently requirement, since it's a waste of skill ranks for an incorporeal creature.) If you have Untapped Potential, try a society mind. When you think about it, it's a very logical fit for unbodied, who are all about the interactions of minds. Someone suggested Vow of Poverty earlier. I'm going to argue against it. The point of Vow of Poverty is that you're making a great sacrifice, giving up your material possessions to achieve enlightenment. An unbodied doesn't have much need for material possessions to begin with, so giving them up isn't as big a sacrifice. An unbodied already represents a level of enlightenment beyond -and incompatible with- the enlightenment of a corporeal character who chooses to live an ascetic lifestyle.
Zathress 11-30-07, 12:05 AM	Keep in mind ANY CREATURE that does not have a +1 enchantment on its weapons will FAIL to hit an unbodied in melee combat. There is a 50% miss chance if the weapon in question has at least a +1 enchantment. Say your fighting the Tras. The Trasq is not capable of damaging an unbodied. Its weapons may COUNT as epic magic for over coming damage reduction but that doesn't mean crap when trying to hit an incorporeal creature. (yes a monk with ki strike magic can't hit incorporeal creatures either). A 100% miss chance on most monsters is a big deal as usually only weapons will have actually enchantment bonus on them. That really narrows down the defenses an Unbodied would need. The ghost walk campaign setting likely has info on how incorporeal creatures can use equipment. Actually i know they do, they have stuff to make more kinds of ghost touch items which would allow you to get equipment.
Tedronai 11-30-07, 02:08 AM	Hide in the floor with a Burrowing Touchsight active. You can see them, they can't see you. Take Flyby Attack along with that, and you don't even have to use Burrowing Power on your attack options (though it helps on the Touchsight by allowing you to avoid emerging only to be hit by a readied action), saving boatloads of PPs.
hogarth 11-30-07, 07:15 AM	For one more LA, the Ghost template is much better than the Unbodied race. You get access to magic items (if you can bring them to the ethereal plane via Blink or something), you get powerful (Su) abilities like Telekinesis and Malevolence, and you can dump your Constitution score.
Tedronai 11-30-07, 07:31 AM	For one more LA, the Ghost template is much better than the Unbodied race. You get access to magic items (if you can bring them to the ethereal plane via Blink or something), you get powerful (Su) abilities like Telekinesis and Malevolence, and you can dump your Constitution score. You're also technically UNKILLABLE by all but one specific means (set at time of creation, and could easily be so specific or complex as to make it nigh impossible: until you can personally bear witness to the retreival of a particular, though unvaluable trinket, and its return to its lawful owner or heir - whose identity is lost to history), which will cause the vast majority of DMs to hit this with the largest nerf-stick retreivable in the time alloted. At least the Unbodied CAN be killed, as difficult as that would be in the hands of a competent player. And the lack of equipment can easily be spun to help convince a DM to allow such a character despite it's strengths (view it as a variant VoP that fails to scale with level and is only available starting at ECL 8, including an accompanying +4 lvl adj)
InkBlot 11-30-07, 02:27 PM	That would be a problem, if it were the DM's job to kill the player's characters. It's the DM's job to fail to kill the player's character. When you DM you have to let the players win without letting them know you let them win. Whether or not being a practically unkillable ghost is a problem is a matter of what constitutes "winning" to the player. Ghosts reconstitute themselves only after 2-8 days and only in one specified location. Being "killed" as a ghost means that you're out of the action long enough for the rest of the party to loot the dungeon without you; long enough for the evil priest to sacrifice the princess to his dark master; long enough for the overlord to take over the world. It also means that you dropped all the equipment you gained recently in a place that's dangerous enough to destroy you. Most DMs will dissalow ghost PCs because they're hard to kill, but that's just not a good reason. Edit: There's also a DC 16 level check that needs to be made. If you fail, you're gone for good. Rejuvenation (Su): In most cases, it’s difficult to destroy a ghost through simple combat: The “destroyed” spirit will often restore itself in 2d4 days. Even the most powerful spells are usually only temporary solutions. A ghost that would otherwise be destroyed returns to its old haunts with a successful level check (1d20 + ghost’s HD) against DC 16. As a rule, the only way to get rid of a ghost for sure is to determine the reason for its existence and set right whatever prevents it from resting in peace. The exact means varies with each spirit and may require a good deal of research.
Favored Enemy 11-30-07, 03:46 PM	Interesting responses. I hadn't considered what a setback being incorporeal really is. Not being able to use magic items or gather treasure is a real inhibitor. I guess the rest of the party would be pretty happy about getting an extra cut of the loot. It also brings the characters motives into question. For the incorporeal, no longer is it a case of, "he who dies with the most toys wins." I wonder what would keep this guy going throughout a full campaign. In the EPH, it says that Unbodied can move silently if they want to. How do incorporeal move loudly? Come to think of it, how can they really mimic people up close to a level that would fool anyone but the deaf and blind? "Strange how that guy walks on grass but doesn't bend the blades..."
hogarth 12-01-07, 10:29 AM	Interesting responses. I hadn't considered what a setback being incorporeal really is. Not being able to use magic items or gather treasure is a real inhibitor. I guess the rest of the party would be pretty happy about getting an extra cut of the loot. Note that Savage Species has a rule for adding the Ghost Touch ability to any item (just add 10% if it's not an armor or weapon).
CrimsonDeath 12-01-07, 12:46 PM	Note that Savage Species has a rule for adding the Ghost Touch ability to any item (just add 10% if it's not an armor or weapon). Although that doesn't really help the Unbodied very much because they don't have any body slots. They can't use helmets, masks, amulets, armor, robes, vests, cloaks, gloves, belts, rings, or boots (or any other items that take up similar locatiosn on the body). They also can't use weapons, power stones, scrolls, potions, oils, wands, staves, psychoactive skins, psionic tattoos, or rods, and an argument could be made that they can't use ioun stones. And most wondrous and miscellaneous items require that you hold, carry, throw, or otherwise physically manipulate them. That doesn't leave a whole lot of gear for them to use.
hogarth 12-01-07, 05:33 PM	Although that doesn't really help the Unbodied very much because they don't have any body slots. They can't use helmets, masks, amulets, armor, robes, vests, cloaks, gloves, belts, rings, or boots (or any other items that take up similar locatiosn on the body). Does it say that in the XPH? 'Cause it doesn't say anything like that in the SRD; in fact it says that an unbodied can assume any shape it desires (presumably including one that can use helmets, masks, amulets, armor, robes, vests, cloaks, gloves, belts, rings, or boots).
CrimsonDeath 12-01-07, 05:48 PM	Does it say that in the XPH? 'Cause it doesn't say anything like that in the SRD; in fact it says that an unbodied can assume any shape it desires (presumably including one that can use helmets, masks, amulets, armor, robes, vests, cloaks, gloves, belts, rings, or boots). Hmm... For some reason I thought that the "shape" it was taking was merely an illusion. Never mind; carry on.
Tugg 12-03-07, 12:12 PM	I think there is a feat in Libris Mortis that allows incorpreal creatures to manipulate objects. That'd make playing an Unbodied alot easier.
CrimsonDeath 12-03-07, 12:51 PM	I think there is a feat in Libris Mortis that allows incorpreal creatures to manipulate objects. That'd make playing an Unbodied alot easier. Ghostly Grasp. It requires 15 Charisma and the Incorporeal subtype.
Omen_of_Peace 12-03-07, 06:45 PM	And with the most recent incorporeal rules (MM3/ToB), a corporeal item that comes into your possession becomes incorporeal. So Ghost Touch gloves are enough. (Many implications of this rule are unclear, so checking things with the DM is wise.)
Nerick_Zinekamcen 12-11-07, 09:57 PM	one thing I noticed when reading about it. XPH doesn't say what the unbodied's natural form is.
DracoPhoenix 12-12-07, 02:30 AM	one thing I noticed when reading about it. XPH doesn't say what the unbodied's natural form is. Usually self defined. anything from humanoid to floating brain. It's more of a fluff thing
Haldrik 12-12-07, 04:44 PM	Certain concepts like Incorporeality (Phasing), Flying, and so on, may be disruptive to game play or game narrative but are so important for the fantasy genre its wrong to nerf them out of existence. Rather the game should find ways to make them standard features (or at least standard options) for appropriate level characters. For example, our houserules make Incorporeality balanced, because lo-bonus magic weapons are ubiquitous and attack corporeal creatures normally, and Force is an effective barrier to shut them out, as well as our version of the 1st-level spell Protection (= Protection from Evil) and related spells. Thus simple spells prevent narrative spoilers where necessary. Likewise, Fly is just a normal part of hi-level campaigns, and everybody both PC allies and foes are accustomed to dealing with Flying creatures. Also worth mentioning, Scry. A creature under magical observation ALWAYS has a Will save to detect a vague feeling of 'being watched'. Thus mundane monsters are alerted, and spellcasting monsters can begin counter-scrying powers to locate the source of Scry. This makes Scry balanced and likewise PCs appreciate knowing when monsters are spying on them. Likewise, we say Force and Protection block Scry as well, albeit the Scrier realizes the observation is being blocked by Force or Protection, unlike a Nondetection effect where the Scrier is simply unaware. With minimum attention, these spells are no big deal.
TevolRia 12-13-07, 12:46 PM	I personaly like the concept of an unbodied who uses an identity of a master thief. he leaves no clues and baffles the local law inforcement.
DracoPhoenix 12-13-07, 01:38 PM	I personaly like the concept of an unbodied who uses an identity of a master thief. he leaves no clues and baffles the local law inforcement. If you want to baffle the law, just sink into the floor, travel along under the vault door, nick the contents into an assumed handy haversack and travel out through the floor again.