Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Katash 11-07-07, 02:06 PM	Bought this over from the char op board- Would you guys allow this: Low-level trick for infinite PP (albeit in small doses): Azure Talent + Psycarnum Infusion. Blow Psionic Focus to fuel Azure Talent. Gain 2 PP for a round. Spend them! Meditate to regain focus. See step 1. When you pick up Psionic Meditation later on, you can do this every round. Do get Improved Essentia Capacity (+2 PP) as well, and be sure to manifest Open Least Chakra for another 2 PP. Your cap should be something like 14 PP, every round. Great for constantly re-buffing, or just using as a pool to augment powers with. __________________ and I was thinking about combining the "Body fuel" feat (XPH) with a Stronheat vest soulmeld (by taking the "Shape soulmeld" feat and the "Bonus essentia" feat to gain more essentia to invest in the Strongheart vest) Then you can use the "Body fuel" feat each round and the Stronheat vest will eliminate the ability damage... Result: recover 2 power points each round... In this way you are likely to recover all the powerpoints spent in just a few minutes, and you are likely not to run out of pp ever... The first seems more legal than the secong but is it worth putting in a build as it seems feat heavy. I suppose it could be feasable if you like nuking. Since I think the PP are temporary you mainly use it for powers like boday adjustmnet and buffs. Cheers.
Azoriel 11-07-07, 05:27 PM	Azure Talent + Psycarnum Infusion. Blow Psionic Focus to fuel Azure Talent. Gain 2 PP for a round. Spend them! Meditate to regain focus. See step 1. How long has this trick been on the Char Op boards? I'm seeing a problem here: Azure Talent is only useable once per day. Psycarnum Infusion lets you expend focus instead of essentia to fuel an incarnum effect (nothing about additional uses per day). Thus, unless I'm missing something here, there's nothing in the build that lets you get the tiny PP boost more than once per day. I was thinking about combining the "Body fuel" feat (XPH) with a Stronheat vest soulmeld (by taking the "Shape soulmeld" feat and the "Bonus essentia" feat to gain more essentia to invest in the Strongheart vest) Then you can use the "Body fuel" feat each round and the Stronheat vest will eliminate the ability damage... It's generally been agreed that any time you come across a "something for nothing" situation with ability score damage, it simply doesn't work. Think about this logically: if you aren't taking any ability burn for these power points, where are they coming from? I mean, what's there to fuel the power you're manifesting? If you were DMing, would you let someone on a barren island (and no wood) build a boat if they expended X amount of gold? After all, the rules for craft merely state you need to pay for the raw materials, not that said raw materials actually need to be available. Yes, if you want to haggle exact lettering, you could argue this trick works; however, most rational DMs would probably disallow this trick and/or immediately decide to ban psionics from the game (seeing as how they "know" that psionics is "broken" now). However... If your DM is somehow okay with this trick, there's a couple of ways to accomplish this in an arguably more efficient manner: the Necropolitan template from Libris Mortis gives you the undead type (complete immunity to all ability score damage), and the powers Oakbody (from XPH) and Deat-, erm, Stygian Ward (from CPsi) give you immunity to ability score damage as well. As a bit of a side note, not sure if you already knew this, but the infinite power point restoration thing has actually already been accomplished before through use of the power "Bestow Power". Just get multiple effects that reduce the PP cost of manifestation (like the Torc of Psionic Might and Earth Power), and you'll be getting back more power points than you spent. (Once again, with any psionics-savy DM, the rules of rationality apply here: how the heck are you giving yourself more power points than you actually spent?)
Psionx 11-07-07, 05:58 PM	At epic levels... Twinned Bestow Power Twinning costs 6 power points Bestow power costs 3 and gives 2 and each augment costs 3 for 2 9-4 ->9th level 12-8 ->12th level 15-12 ->15th level 18-16 ->18th level 21-20 ->21th level 24-24 ->24th level 27-28 ->27th level At 27th level it becomes feasible with absolutely no equipment Now for the cheesy version... Fission Psion A manifests affinity field Psion B manifests affinity field Psion A manifests bestow power The bestow power effect loops infinitely because each effect is being looped through each affinity field in a never ending game of psionic tennis Net Result: True infinity in power points for both you and your clone You gain back any power points the duplicate has not spent. When you manifest this power, the subject gains up to 2 power points. You can transfer only as many power points to a subject as it has manifester levels. Now for the underlined part... each time the power affects the creature they can only gain that many power points, this prevents you from transferring more than 6 power points per manifestation to a creature with 6 manifester levels. You and your duplicate are about the same level, but since you aren't going to augment the power it won't really matter. Therefore when you rejoin you retain the infinity as well, and these are permanent gains (as bolded (on any points of contention on gain back, you still gain them as though you had lost infinity only to gain it back (hah, RAW ftw!))), not temporary power points, therefore you need never meditate for power points again (as you can never truly spend infinity except in the case mentioned below). As a nice little bonus: The psicrown of crystal mind (unfortunately an artifact) As a special one-time use of the psicrown, the wearer can channel all the remaining charges in the psicrown into an uncontrolled burst of energy. The wearer triggers this use as a standard action. All within 20 feet of the wearer take hit points of damage equal to half the power points left in the crown (Reflex DC 18 half). The wearer inhabits a tiny eye of calm at the center of the destruction and is unharmed, but the psicrown is reduced to a burned-out cinder. Master staff epic feat When you activate a staff, you can substitute a spell slot instead of using a charge. The spell slot must be one you have not used for the day, though you may lose a prepared spell to emulate a staff charge (you may not lose prepared spells from your school of specialty, if any). The spell slot lost must be equal to or higher in level than the specific spell stored in the staff, including any level-increasing metamagic enhancements. You cannot emulate a charge for a staff function that does not match a specific spell. Psionic characters can acquire epic “psionically flavored” feats. In this case its power points with the psionically flavored master psicrown (psicrowns are the closest match to staffs). Now for the clencher... there are no real spell slots for psions, and it does not mention manifester levels and the only caps are on powers which this is not. Substitute infinite power points for charges and nova to true infinity in a single destructive burst (DC 18 half... don't use it vs evasion, but half of infinity is still infinity). The only downside to this is that you no longer have infinite power points.
Wizard Random 11-07-07, 06:15 PM	I think you are misreading the feats Azoriel, Psycarnum Infusion says every time you pop your focus your incarnum feats count as fully charged for 1 round. Now even if you never invested in Azure Talent in the first place it still will give you 2 PP every time you pop your focus. It bypasses (I.E. Totally Ignores) the normal restrictions for incarnum feats. You can also take Midnight Augmentation (Bestow Power) stick 2 essentia into it and BAM you can recharge your PP indefinitely. It works kinda like Earth Power and a Torc of Power preservation but this can be done at level 3. Buy a Dorje of Bestow Power, thats like 50-60 free PP for like 1-2k gold. WizR
Psionx 11-07-07, 06:18 PM	Because of the intimate nature of this power, it cannot be fabricated into a psionic item—only power points generated by a psionic creature in the moment can be shared using bestow power. http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/bestowPower.htm
TheKeyofE 11-07-07, 08:00 PM	You can also take Midnight Augmentation (Bestow Power) stick 2 essentia into it and BAM you can recharge your PP indefinitely. It works kinda like Earth Power and a Torc of Power preservation but this can be done at level 3. Won't work by itself. Midnight Augmentation says you can only invest essentia equal to the power's level (2 in this case), and the augmentation cost can't be reduced below 1. So you spend 3+1 pp to regain 4 pp. Combine it with a Torc of Power preservation and it would work. EDIT: or if you were a wilder, you could wild surge for 1 and do it that way.
Wizard Random 11-07-07, 08:43 PM	Won't work by itself. Midnight Augmentation says you can only invest essentia equal to the power's level (2 in this case), and the augmentation cost can't be reduced below 1. So you spend 3+1 pp to regain 4 pp. Combine it with a Torc of Power preservation and it would work. EDIT: or if you were a wilder, you could wild surge for 1 and do it that way. Yea sure a Wilder would work
Psionx 11-07-07, 10:46 PM	Well, the 2 for 1 stuff not going outside of core... 21st level psion Additional Magic Item Space [Epic]->Additional Psionic Item Space [Epic] 2 torcs of power preservation 3-1-1=1 for 2.
Bacris 11-07-07, 11:30 PM	At 21st level, I'd think you'd be able to do a lot cooler stuff ;)
Azoriel 11-08-07, 12:10 AM	I think you are misreading the feats Azoriel, Psycarnum Infusion says every time you pop your focus your incarnum feats count as fully charged for 1 round. Now even if you never invested in Azure Talent in the first place it still will give you 2 PP every time you pop your focus. It bypasses (I.E. Totally Ignores) the normal restrictions for incarnum feats. I hope I'm not breaking any rules by posting this... (If I am, someone inform me and I'll edit to fix the problem.) Benefit: To use this feat, you must expend your psionic focus. Until the start of your next turn, one of your... incarnum feats... is treated as if it had essentia invested in it equal to its maximum essentia capacity. You don't gain any bonus essentia from this effect. The first line from Azure Talent is "Once per day, you can invest essentia into this feat." Thus, this is what I'm seeing. Psycarnum Infusion essentially says you can treat Azure Talent as having been paid off. Azure Talent can be paid off once per day. If Psycarnum Infusion treats a Azure Talent as though it has been paid off, the default assumption would be that this also includes for the purposes of the once per day limit. If this were not the case, there would be an exclusionary clause in Psycarnum Infusion stating that it didn't apply to pay per day limits, and there is no such exclusion in the text. (If someone else has posted logic to the contrary elsewhere, I'd like to see it.) Props to the person who pointed out twinned bestow power; didn't really think of that one before...
Wizard Random 11-08-07, 01:35 AM	Well, the 2 for 1 stuff not going outside of core... 21st level psion Additional Magic Item Space [Epic]->Additional Psionic Item Space [Epic] 2 torcs of power preservation 3-1-1=1 for 2. Well if you want to go that route you could just pay 1.5 times the cost and "include" the Torc's effects in another item. Say Boots of Striding and Sptinging + Power Preservation. Back of the DMG
Think0028 11-08-07, 10:20 AM	The first line from Azure Talent is "Once per day, you can invest essentia into this feat." Thus, this is what I'm seeing. Psycarnum Infusion essentially says you can treat Azure Talent as having been paid off. Azure Talent can be paid off once per day. If Psycarnum Infusion treats a Azure Talent as though it has been paid off, the default assumption would be that this also includes for the purposes of the once per day limit. If this were not the case, there would be an exclusionary clause in Psycarnum Infusion stating that it didn't apply to pay per day limits, and there is no such exclusion in the text. (If someone else has posted logic to the contrary elsewhere, I'd like to see it.) Props to the person who pointed out twinned bestow power; didn't really think of that one before... CharOp guy here. And this argument is not new. This is also the same argument used with Midnight Metamagic (? The one that allows free metamagic on a spell). No one actually uses this trick for infinite PP anymore, as far as I know. Bestow Power is the more common one to use.
hogarth 11-08-07, 01:20 PM	Bought this over from the char op board- Would you guys allow this: Low-level trick for infinite PP (albeit in small doses): Azure Talent + Psycarnum Infusion. Blow Psionic Focus to fuel Azure Talent. Gain 2 PP for a round. Spend them! Meditate to regain focus. See step 1. I read about this trick on the CharOp board, and it doesn't fit my interpretation. The point is that the power points from Azure Talent aren't "temporary power points", they're just bonus power points (like from a high Int score). So if you spend 2 power points and then subsequently lose the bonus, you've still spent 2 power points (although your current PP can't go below zero). Here's the way I see it: Start with X PP. Azure Talent + Psycarnum Infusion. Blow Psionic Focus to fuel Azure Talent. You have X+2 PP for a round. You spend two! The effect wears off. Now you have X-2 PP. Meditate to regain focus. Go to step 1, but with "X" replaced by "X-2". Eventually you hit 0 PP and then you can't regain psionic focus any longer. It's the same reason why you can't cast Eagle's Splendor again and again to get more and more turning attempts. Of course, I had people argue passionately that my interpretation was wrong, so feel free to join the club. :)
Katash 11-08-07, 02:35 PM	Bought this over from the char op board- I was thinking about combining the "Body fuel" feat (XPH) with a Stronheat vest soulmeld (by taking the "Shape soulmeld" feat and the "Bonus essentia" feat to gain more essentia to invest in the Strongheart vest) Then you can use the "Body fuel" feat each round and the Stronheat vest will eliminate the ability damage... Result: recover 2 power points each round... In this way you are likely to recover all the powerpoints spent in just a few minutes, and you are likely not to run out of pp ever... Cheers. Actually, it works by RAW too, it says ability damage cannot be healed ecept thru natural healing, but StrongHeart vest doesn't heal the damage it prevents it from occuring. Talked to our DM and he said it's okay but stated the way he read strongheart vest it would only stop 1 0f the 3 points damage (0ne for str, one for dex, one for con) unless it had essentia invested. We quickly tested an azurin with shape soulmeld and midnight augmentation (total 2 essentia) invested both in strongheart to prevent 3 ability burn (equal to Body fuel damage). We rekon this means the psion's pp return 2pp every 6 seconds. Also agreed that Psion should probably concentrate to do it. Added a little balance -instead of freely returning Must be concentrating to regain. Means useful outside of combat 'Hold a minute, I need to restore my Psi-energy'. Usual things break concentration. And cannot freely use skills will doing this 'cause your concentrating on getting power back. Means Psion can still run out of PP in a drawn out fight (which my DM Looooovvves) but means the whole 'free augmentation' bit wizards get is no longer an issue. Quickly played and didn't seem to be too much of a problem....Although we have a large party (7 char, all optimised.) And he didn't seem to outshine. We're gonna go onna retraining quest so I can turn my regular Kalashtar Psion into an Azurin. Yay! Now that damn Illuminan (improved sigil) Wiz1/Clr3/TN/MT with 8th level arcane and 9th level divine casting will stop out blasting my Kineticist.
awaken_D_M_golem 11-08-07, 07:09 PM	**NOTE: I will randomly steal any good idea that I see presented here or on other threads and add them to the list. I do not take credit for all of these. I will try to make sure they are all legal.** Psionic Combos: 1. Metamorphosis + Metamorphic Transfer + Landshark Boots(Totem) + Phase Cloak (Shoulders) + Three Fold Mask of Chimera (Crown) + Blink Shirt (Totem) + Double Chakra (Totem) + Hustle. Result: A big list of ingredients, but all do-able by a 9th level meldshaper/7th level egoist/. Metamorph into a choker, transfer the quickness ability. Next round. Move action become ethereal, go towards target. Make a 5' jump as part of your move. Std Action make 4 claw attacks. Swift action: Hustle, gain extra move and jump again, second std action make 4 claw attacks. Final move action DD away, rinse and repeat. 2. Psycarnum Infusion + Midnight Augmentation + Wild Surge or Overchannel + Improved Essentia Capacity Result: Wanna drop a bomb? Just expend your focus and spend max pp on the destructive power of your choice. By 20th level that could mean a boost of 8 ML (-5 cost from Midnight Augmentation and +3 ML from Overchannel). Best of all, no essentia is required. 3. Azure Talent + Psycarnum Infusion + Improved Essentia Capacity + Psionic Meditation Result: You gain bonus pp equal to 2xInvested Essentia. This is an incredible combo for low levels and even for high levels. You basically conjure up a power from thin air with a reload time of a single move-action. Psychic Warriors who don't want to waste precious pp on their long lasting buffs (like claws of the beast) will find this combo rather appealing. Note that it provides bonus power points to your pp pool, so you needn't worry about single-source issues. Arcane Combos: 1. Psycarnum Infusion + Incarnum Overload + Midnight Metamagic or any Incarnum Feat: At the beginning of the day overload as a free action (gaining a boost to your essentia cap = to charisma) then expend your focus to max out all essentia in the feat of your choice (or soulmeld). The result? At twentieth level one might easily get 5 + cha max essentia cap and then invest all of those essentia into midnight metamagic to persistify say 2-3 spells a day. (thanx to SigmaJargon for pointing this out). ...This is a work in progress. I'll add more as soon as I see them. Lokiyn has also posted the Azure Talent + Psycarnum Infusion idea. As I said on the co-board thread, you need to have 1pp available to be able to achieve Psionic Focus. And they are bonus pp, not temporary pp, soo ... (1) ... stick 1pp into a 1pp Cognizance Crystal (2) ... use your regular pp (3) ... the 1pp CC counts as "1pp available" (4) ... obtain Psi-Focus (5) ... blow focus on Azure Talent + Psycarnum Infusion (6) ... spend pp / don't spend the CC's pp (7) ... repeat steps 4 to 6 as willing This is very slow. Early on it takes (20/Concentration #) of full round actions to refocus. 4 ranks + Con 18 + 3 skill focus = 11 Might take 1 full round, might take 2 rounds, might take 3 ... Midnight Augmentation - requires 1pp of augmenting be paid for by something else. Then it can discount an X-th level power by X-number of power points. So a 2nd level power augmented to 6pp could subtract 2pp, via 2 essentia points. With Bestow Power, you just need the first 1pp of augmenting to be free, like the Torc, or EarthPower, or WildSurge. A 7th level power could be augmented 8pp and have MA discount it by 7pp, and one of the above get that last pp. Midnight Aug + Psycarnum Infusion = 1 extra feat, to do the same thing, but now you can discount other powers too. No need for the 2 essentia points, even though you have 1. And it takes longer. A 7th level power could be augmented 8pp and have MA discount it by 7pp, and one of the above get that last pp.
Artector 11-08-07, 07:52 PM	I figure somebody has thought of this, but I feeling posting it anyways. It doesn't give Infinite PP, but lets you make a little better use of those cog crystals. It gets fairly costly too. Basically you get a Cognizance Crystal of 3 PP or higher and use it to manifest Bestow Power on yourself. Here's the breakdown I figured out: Point value of Cog Crystal: GP spent on crystal/PP gained (only 1 day of use though) Cost of Crystal: Power Points to be gained. 3 PP: 2000 GP/point 4000 GP: 2 PP 7 PP: 4000 GP/point 1600 GP: 4 PP 9 PP:4166 1/3 GP/point 25000 GP: 6 PP 13 PP: 6125 GP/point 49,000 gp: 8 PP 15 PP: 6400 GP/point 64000 gp: 10 PP I didn't do several crystals because the division and rounding just makes it redundant, I'm pretty sure these are the cheapest ones to use this way. Throw in a Torc of Power Preservation and you get: 3 PP: 2000 GP/point 4000 GP: 2 PP 5 PP: 2250 GP/Point 9000 GP: 4 PP 7 PP: 2666 GP/point 1600 GP: 6 PP 9 PP: 3125 GP/point 25000 GP: 8 PP 11 PP: 3600 GP/Point 36000 GP: 10 PP 13 PP: 4083 GP/point 49,000 gp: 12 PP 15 PP: 4571 GP/point 64000 gp: 14 PP 17 PP: 5062 GP/point 81000 GP: 16 Overall you would get the most value out of a 3 PP Crystal. And several of the crystals will have 1 power point left over for random things, or those points could wait till the next day. Overall I think this way is a better way of keeping yesterday's power points. You can freely augment them up to your manifestor level, which is more useful than keeping the crystals around for smaller utility powers, at least in my opinion. EDIT~ A wilder might be able to use this to an interesting degree...
ninja1 11-13-07, 03:07 PM	While it is useful to recharge a crystal with or to offset some of the cost for buffs, I think it is worth mentioning that once you add in a second psionic character (ex. other PC or Thrall), then it becomes effective to recharge each other using Bestow Power.
Seidaku 05-08-08, 05:29 PM	With Azure Talent and Psycarnum Infusion, you can effectively spend your psionic focus to gain 2pp for one turn. To address the earlier comments about not being able to do this multiple times per day: Psycarnum Infusion specifically states that the feat it's boosting "is treated as if" it had the essentia invested in it; it is not actually investing the essentia, nor invoking a use of the feat. Hence, it can be used as often as you like. So, expend focus, gain 2pp for a round. With a 3 point cognizance crystal, doing this twice is enough to fill it. With that cog crystal, you can then cast Bestow Power on yourself, regaining 2 pp. By repeating this process ad infinitum, you can completely restore your power point pool. Infinite power points! One possible pitfall lies in the wording of Bestow Power: "You link your mind with another psionic creature’s mind". Hence, it may be impossible to cast it upon yourself. The 'target' section of the power just says "One psionic creature," though, so it's arguable. If we work with the narrower interpretation, you can't restore your own pool in this fashion. However, it only requires a 3rd level psion to get the feats and powers necessary to get this off; hence using Leadership to take a psionic cohort is a suitable alternative.
Lycanthromancer 05-08-08, 07:21 PM	I hate the way bestow power is worded. Check out my powers revision (in my sig). That version is much better.
Seidaku 05-08-08, 11:29 PM	Upon closer reading of Azure Talent, the RAW says that you gain the power points when the essentia is invested; it never says *anything* about losing the power points after essentia is no longer invested. Hence, with the RAW, using psycarnum infusion would give you 2x your essentia pool in bonus power points.. that don't go away. No need for cog crystal malarky; these two feats provide infinite pp in and of themselves.
AntiDjinn 05-08-08, 11:41 PM	Buy a Dorje of Bestow Power, thats like 50-60 free PP for like 1-2k gold. Except Bestow Power specifically can't be incorporated into an item.
Lycanthromancer 05-08-08, 11:57 PM	You could bestow power using power points from arrows of manifesting. Check the XPH for details.
'Dane 05-09-08, 01:25 AM	hmm... seems to me that there might be an easier way to do this whole thing, though easy is relative. How about Linked power + metapower + 2x Bestow power + Torc of Power Preservation. so that would be 3 + 3 - 2 - 1 then you get 4 back, so it would be 3 for 4. you could also use a lvl 1 power as the base for the same effect, i would reccoment catfall, cause you can manifest it as an immediate action, though your Metapower would work exclusively on it, but thats not necessarily a bad thing since it essencially saves you 1 pp on the cost of any power you want to manifest, though you do have to expend your psionic focus, and i don't know if the linked power can be augmented so that it would be more usefull for other powers. but in any case it would be a 1 for 2 deal so you would still win out in the end, even if it is only once each round.
AntiDjinn 05-09-08, 10:14 AM	If you need a quick recharge just go Thrallherd. Tell your believers to take Psionic Talent, use Psychic Reformation to provide it if they arrive with other feats. Now, when you need points just line up, say, 5 believers and manifest Feat Leech on them (they are willing). Lets say you can borrow 4 psionic feats from each, so that is 20 iterations of Psionic Talent you can leech in 5 rounds. That is 230 bonus power points, less the 15 it cost to manifest Feat Leach 5 times (or spend the points and focusing time to extend each of them; your believers will willingly fail the save when the normal time comes due). These added points won't hang around forever, but it should be long enough to get things done.