Untapped Potential Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Untapped Potential Question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Wraith428
08-06-07, 04:34 PM Is there anyting in untapped potential for a multiclassed soulknife/psion or psychic warrior character?

Feats like practiced manifester for the soulknife.

Prestige class that advances both in some way.

Thanks,

Wriath428
Flamewarrior
08-06-07, 04:48 PM The Mind Blade Kensai feat is analogous to Practiced Manifester, and all classes that advance psionics advance a mind blade (if already possessed, of course) at the same time without loss; also, the Knight Meditant and the Enlightened Protector are classes that welcome soulknife/manifesters.
Bacris
08-06-07, 04:54 PM The rule in Untapped Potential for soulknives and the "+1 manifester level" is that you can instead apply it to a soulknife - or, apply it to both a manifester AND a soulknife's progression - at the DM's option.

Edit - NM - I was misremembering - it advances both.
SilentOne
08-06-07, 10:35 PM It really advances both? I'm AFB right now, but when I read it I was under the impression that +1 manifester level could count as a soulknife level for their abilities, -or- an actual manifester level boost. Why do they all suddenly now have double the effect?
Tempest Stormwind
08-06-07, 10:54 PM It really advances both? I'm AFB right now, but when I read it I was under the impression that +1 manifester level could count as a soulknife level for their abilities, -or- an actual manifester level boost. Why do they all suddenly now have double the effect?

Observe.

Soulknife 1 / Manifester 9 / (9/10 progression - GENEROUS!) PrC 10 = ML 18, +2 shortsword mind blade with a +2 special ability on it. You lack even Throw Mind Blade, and chances are you've got a better sword on your own (or you don't use weapons at all).

Compare to Call Weaponry, which incidentally doesn't cost you the ML to the initial soulknife level.

Compare to Soulknife 5 / Manifester 5 / PrC 10.

Or the reverse -- Soulknife 9 / Manifester 1 / PrC 10, which costs you your high-end soulknife abilites in exchange for an ML of 9 at most, which wont' make much of an impact.

Hell, compare to *anything.* The impact of the mind blade advancement is minimal at best, even with the altered soulknife presented in UTP and the Mind Blade Kensai feat.

Besides, UTP also provides a lot of interesting feats for pure soulknives -- style feats, racial feats and substitiution levels, and at least one mantra -- that you'll feel cool again playing a soulknife, while keeping up with the party rogue (in some areas; you'll exceed him in some, lag behind in others, but more or less turn out similar.)

In the end, the combo-progression *encourages* soulknife levels to appear without significantly altering the power level of the game, and enables soulknives to consider a wider range of PrCs that they probably didn't want to consider before. All in all, I think that's a good thing.
SilentOne
08-07-07, 02:24 AM Alright, that makes sense. I'd forgotten that the soulknife gets actual class abilities not tied to the mindblade, unlike spellcasting classes like the wizard (or even the psion).

Particularly balanced I guess since psionic prestige classes also tend to drop at least one manifesting class, as you noted in your analysis of the very generous 9/10.
Flamewarrior
08-07-07, 09:38 AM ... that you'll feel cool again playing a soulknife, while keeping up with the party rogue (in some areas; you'll exceed him in some, lag behind in others, but more or less turn out similar.)Could you elaborate a little more on the soulknife/rogue comparison? I always had a bit of a problem to find even BlaineTog's soulknife worthwhile, to be honest, and I know you love it, so that might be the time for removing my blind on the matter.

Wraith428: are you aware that UTP includes a soulknife revamp? While that may sound weird right next to the above paragraph, I do know for sure many of the problems the original version had were solved in that.
Wraith428
08-07-07, 05:06 PM My understandning in UTP essentially has the Blain Tog soulknife I've been using for years in it. Is that incorrect or an over simplification?

Wraith428
Tempest Stormwind
08-07-07, 05:07 PM My understandning in UTP essentially has the Blain Tog soulknife I've been using for years in it. Is that incorrect or an over simplification?

Wraith428

There's a few modifications, but in essence it's the BlaineTog fix, yes. There are, however, loads of other soulknife options that were written with it in mind (though they also work with the stock soulknife).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Wraith428 08-06-07, 04:34 PM	Is there anyting in untapped potential for a multiclassed soulknife/psion or psychic warrior character? Feats like practiced manifester for the soulknife. Prestige class that advances both in some way. Thanks, Wriath428
Flamewarrior 08-06-07, 04:48 PM	The Mind Blade Kensai feat is analogous to Practiced Manifester, and all classes that advance psionics advance a mind blade (if already possessed, of course) at the same time without loss; also, the Knight Meditant and the Enlightened Protector are classes that welcome soulknife/manifesters.
Bacris 08-06-07, 04:54 PM	The rule in Untapped Potential for soulknives and the "+1 manifester level" is that you can instead apply it to a soulknife - or, apply it to both a manifester AND a soulknife's progression - at the DM's option. Edit - NM - I was misremembering - it advances both.
SilentOne 08-06-07, 10:35 PM	It really advances both? I'm AFB right now, but when I read it I was under the impression that +1 manifester level could count as a soulknife level for their abilities, -or- an actual manifester level boost. Why do they all suddenly now have double the effect?
Tempest Stormwind 08-06-07, 10:54 PM	It really advances both? I'm AFB right now, but when I read it I was under the impression that +1 manifester level could count as a soulknife level for their abilities, -or- an actual manifester level boost. Why do they all suddenly now have double the effect? Observe. Soulknife 1 / Manifester 9 / (9/10 progression - GENEROUS!) PrC 10 = ML 18, +2 shortsword mind blade with a +2 special ability on it. You lack even Throw Mind Blade, and chances are you've got a better sword on your own (or you don't use weapons at all). Compare to Call Weaponry, which incidentally doesn't cost you the ML to the initial soulknife level. Compare to Soulknife 5 / Manifester 5 / PrC 10. Or the reverse -- Soulknife 9 / Manifester 1 / PrC 10, which costs you your high-end soulknife abilites in exchange for an ML of 9 at most, which wont' make much of an impact. Hell, compare to anything. The impact of the mind blade advancement is minimal at best, even with the altered soulknife presented in UTP and the Mind Blade Kensai feat. Besides, UTP also provides a lot of interesting feats for pure soulknives -- style feats, racial feats and substitiution levels, and at least one mantra -- that you'll feel cool again playing a soulknife, while keeping up with the party rogue (in some areas; you'll exceed him in some, lag behind in others, but more or less turn out similar.) In the end, the combo-progression encourages soulknife levels to appear without significantly altering the power level of the game, and enables soulknives to consider a wider range of PrCs that they probably didn't want to consider before. All in all, I think that's a good thing.
SilentOne 08-07-07, 02:24 AM	Alright, that makes sense. I'd forgotten that the soulknife gets actual class abilities not tied to the mindblade, unlike spellcasting classes like the wizard (or even the psion). Particularly balanced I guess since psionic prestige classes also tend to drop at least one manifesting class, as you noted in your analysis of the very generous 9/10.
Flamewarrior 08-07-07, 09:38 AM	... that you'll feel cool again playing a soulknife, while keeping up with the party rogue (in some areas; you'll exceed him in some, lag behind in others, but more or less turn out similar.)Could you elaborate a little more on the soulknife/rogue comparison? I always had a bit of a problem to find even BlaineTog's soulknife worthwhile, to be honest, and I know you love it, so that might be the time for removing my blind on the matter. Wraith428: are you aware that UTP includes a soulknife revamp? While that may sound weird right next to the above paragraph, I do know for sure many of the problems the original version had were solved in that.
Wraith428 08-07-07, 05:06 PM	My understandning in UTP essentially has the Blain Tog soulknife I've been using for years in it. Is that incorrect or an over simplification? Wraith428
Tempest Stormwind 08-07-07, 05:07 PM	My understandning in UTP essentially has the Blain Tog soulknife I've been using for years in it. Is that incorrect or an over simplification? Wraith428 There's a few modifications, but in essence it's the BlaineTog fix, yes. There are, however, loads of other soulknife options that were written with it in mind (though they also work with the stock soulknife).