Using a Thrall to fill a role... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Using a Thrall to fill a role... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
jbsaff
01-04-08, 03:21 PM I'm going to be going into Thrallherd soon and am trying to figure out what role my 1st thrall should take in the party. My DM is highly likely to listen to my suggestions and I figure I can reform away a few minor issues if I need to. The group is pretty unexperienced, so the DM isn't to worried about us going crazy overpowered.

Current Party:

Dreamscarred Society Mind (My character. Party face and buffer/debuffer. Focus on the mental battle.)
Unknown race Society Mind healing variant (basically a Society Mind with an emphasis on healing abilities, buffs, and powers. Not my character, so not much I can elaborate on.)
Wood Elf Soul Bastion (armored tank with some mobility abilities)
Xeph Dual Blade Soulknife (think a cross between Rock Lee and a Protoss Zealot. Lots of speed and many attacks.)

Sources: SRD, Dreamscarred Press, Mind's Eye articles, and maybe Hyperconcious (DM hasn't investigated/approved yet, but is receptive)

Thrall Requirements:

Must be psionic, whether by race, class, or feats (for those with Untapped Potential, I'm using the Harmonizer variant of Thrallherd).
Cannot use magic, arcane or divine. Game world has no magic users after "The Big War".
ECL of 5. Using 32 point buy. We are using LA buy-off, so a +1 race is "free". I'd even consider a +2 LA for a good reason/concept.

Preferences:

Psionic class of some sort.

The way I see it, we are missing a dedicated battlefield controller and a skill-finding trap monkey (or was that trap-finding skill monkey?). I was leaning toward a Dreamscarred Wilder for both some interesting roleplay opportunities ("uniting my rejected brethren", etc...). Also, I am most familiar with the Wilder class and the Wild Surge would help with being a level behind the party. However, these consideration are by no means deal-breakers.

I had thought of an Astral Construct Wilder, but then realized that melee combat was one thing we are most likely to have covered.

Entangling or greasing our enemies would also be helpful for the melee-ers. Given the lack of magic in the world and my DM's demonstrated preference as a player for direct damage powers, I don't know how to prepare for primary manifesters.

I can always fall back on the Metamorphosis-focused Wilder 20 build that I saw in the Wilder Build Guide, but I don't want my thrall to end up outshining the other players at their own game (melee combat).

For trapfinding, the Psychic Rogue (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b) seems ideal. It can get Entangling Ectoplasm and flank with our current melee folks, increasing the number of hits and Sneak Attack damage. And since we don't need another Party Face, the slightly lower skill points are still fine for our needs. A Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesseing Tallfellow halfling sounds like a good start. Either that or a Gray Elf.

Any thoughts would be great. I want to be able to communicate a concept to my DM and see how he reacts. First priority is to figure out which primary role to focus on.
Bacris
01-07-08, 01:56 PM Well, I know you haven't read it yet (maybe you have...) - but the Morphean can do about the same role as the psychic rogue. While it's not quite so "sneaky" oriented, it does have trap finding and a reasonable list of skills and skill points.

Just an idea :)
jbsaff
01-07-08, 03:15 PM Got it and read it. The Morphean is quite interesting, but I've got a few things in the game that work against it.

It's a foreign setup and new concept that I'm not sure I'll be able to spring on my DM. I'm not sure how the Qelic and Dreamscape parts fit into his game. I doubt he's even thought of it yet. So I'd be asking for both a new class, which wasn't available at character creation, and the new work of integrating into the game. It's do-able, and I can help, but I'm not sure if it's necessary.
We've already run up against an Astral Construct wilder, negating my use of Unearthly Terror. I'm not sure yet if the DM is a fan of immunities to mind affecting or not.
I'm trying to stay low-key compared to my party members, who are playing for the first time (thus the Society Mind and Harmonizer choices). Somehow, I don't think saying "You see that guy? The physical embodiment of all your worst fears and nightmares? Yeah, he's my agent." is quite going to help with that.
The Terrors ability feels like a set of augmentable psionic manuevers (or a multi-optioned form of Stunning Fist). Very interesting mechanic, but something I'll need to mull over to fully understand and use well. Same goes for the split importance of INT for PP/terror DCs and CHA for max power limit/manifesting DCs.

Of course, we've got a level or two. It may end up that by the time I actually have to decide, the DM could have incorporated everything and I'll be well-versed on all the ins and outs of the class.

What do you see as the major advantage of the Morphean over the PsyRogue? And how would you build one? Hmm... DEX, INT, and CHA are all important. CHA seems to be the most important (number of Terrors and eventually the Shroud of Fears deflection bonus). INT is right behind with bonus PP and increased Terror DCs. DEX for AC and attack bonus (via Weapon Finesse) early on. Dreamscarred starts looking good, since we are using LA buy-off.

Okay I'm thinking about it... I'll talk to my DM too.
DracoPhoenix
01-08-08, 11:42 AM How about a psionic artificer?

They have trapfinding and search IIRC. Not sure they can sneak as much though. But it's worth it for the 62% off (packing the appropriate feats) magic items.

Also as a thrallherd, you don't have to worry about the xp drain (nighty night... NEXT!)
Lycanthromancer
01-08-08, 11:53 AM If you want to do something interesting, get a bunch of 1st level rogues, then treat them as a swarm (I forget where the swarm template is for groups of humanoids...PHB2?). Imagine the sneak attack damage!

You could also use the swarm for trap-searching, and your higher-level thrall for...something else.
jbsaff
01-08-08, 02:35 PM If you want to do something interesting, get a bunch of 1st level rogues, then treat them as a swarm

I immediately thought of a bunch of halflings crawling through a tunnel, up the walls across the ceiling, and over each other. Hilarious.

Okay, after consulation with the DM:

Morphean is approved as a class. The world is changing, magic is gone, things are screwed up anyway. Why not add in a few scary freaks? ;-) We can figure out the details if/when we get to needing them.

So, what race to use? How about the Drow? +2 CHA, INT, and DEX (my big three), with SR, some SLAs, and "only" a +2 LA. I asked my DM, and he came up with a history and location for his world. We now have drow philospher sage isolationists who live above ground. After reworking the SLAs to some 1st level Psi-like abilities that fit what he had in mind, losing the darkvision and light blindness, and tweaking the weapon proficiencies, we ended up with a +1 LA on Soldarin's calculator. Which is gravy in my book, since I just want the ability bonuses and the secret door detection.

So then, it looks like I'll be going with a modified Drow Morphean as my agent. After re-reading the class again, I see enough options to use even against stuff immune to mind-affecting or fear effects. I can also use the Terrors to boost everyone's combat effectiveness, so I'm less concerned with out-shining the other players. (Many thanks to Bacris and angellis on the DSP forums for helping me figure out the Terrors)

For those who care, this is what the Drow are like:

**************************************** ******************
Modified Drow

+2 INT
+2 CHA
+2 DEX
-2 CON

Low-light vision, as the high elf.
Power resistance equal to 11 + class levels.
+2 racial bonus on Will saves against spells/powers and spell-like/psi-like abilities.
Psi-Like Abilities: Drow can use the following psi-like abilities once per day: Call to Mind, Conceal Thoughts, Know Direction and Location. Manifester level equals the drow’s class levels.
Weapon Proficiency: A drow is automatically proficient with the longsword, rapier, longbow, composite longbow, shortbow, and composite shortbow as a high elf.
Automatic Languages: Common, Elven. Bonus Languages: Aquan, Draconic, Drow Sign Language, Gnome, Goblin. This trait replaces the high elf’s automatic and bonus languages.

No drow Poison(Ex) ability.

LA +1

**************************************** ******************

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
jbsaff 01-04-08, 03:21 PM	I'm going to be going into Thrallherd soon and am trying to figure out what role my 1st thrall should take in the party. My DM is highly likely to listen to my suggestions and I figure I can reform away a few minor issues if I need to. The group is pretty unexperienced, so the DM isn't to worried about us going crazy overpowered. Current Party: Dreamscarred Society Mind (My character. Party face and buffer/debuffer. Focus on the mental battle.) Unknown race Society Mind healing variant (basically a Society Mind with an emphasis on healing abilities, buffs, and powers. Not my character, so not much I can elaborate on.) Wood Elf Soul Bastion (armored tank with some mobility abilities) Xeph Dual Blade Soulknife (think a cross between Rock Lee and a Protoss Zealot. Lots of speed and many attacks.) Sources: SRD, Dreamscarred Press, Mind's Eye articles, and maybe Hyperconcious (DM hasn't investigated/approved yet, but is receptive) Thrall Requirements: Must be psionic, whether by race, class, or feats (for those with Untapped Potential, I'm using the Harmonizer variant of Thrallherd). Cannot use magic, arcane or divine. Game world has no magic users after "The Big War". ECL of 5. Using 32 point buy. We are using LA buy-off, so a +1 race is "free". I'd even consider a +2 LA for a good reason/concept. Preferences: Psionic class of some sort. The way I see it, we are missing a dedicated battlefield controller and a skill-finding trap monkey (or was that trap-finding skill monkey?). I was leaning toward a Dreamscarred Wilder for both some interesting roleplay opportunities ("uniting my rejected brethren", etc...). Also, I am most familiar with the Wilder class and the Wild Surge would help with being a level behind the party. However, these consideration are by no means deal-breakers. I had thought of an Astral Construct Wilder, but then realized that melee combat was one thing we are most likely to have covered. Entangling or greasing our enemies would also be helpful for the melee-ers. Given the lack of magic in the world and my DM's demonstrated preference as a player for direct damage powers, I don't know how to prepare for primary manifesters. I can always fall back on the Metamorphosis-focused Wilder 20 build that I saw in the Wilder Build Guide, but I don't want my thrall to end up outshining the other players at their own game (melee combat). For trapfinding, the Psychic Rogue (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b) seems ideal. It can get Entangling Ectoplasm and flank with our current melee folks, increasing the number of hits and Sneak Attack damage. And since we don't need another Party Face, the slightly lower skill points are still fine for our needs. A Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesseing Tallfellow halfling sounds like a good start. Either that or a Gray Elf. Any thoughts would be great. I want to be able to communicate a concept to my DM and see how he reacts. First priority is to figure out which primary role to focus on.
Bacris 01-07-08, 01:56 PM	Well, I know you haven't read it yet (maybe you have...) - but the Morphean can do about the same role as the psychic rogue. While it's not quite so "sneaky" oriented, it does have trap finding and a reasonable list of skills and skill points. Just an idea :)
jbsaff 01-07-08, 03:15 PM	Got it and read it. The Morphean is quite interesting, but I've got a few things in the game that work against it. It's a foreign setup and new concept that I'm not sure I'll be able to spring on my DM. I'm not sure how the Qelic and Dreamscape parts fit into his game. I doubt he's even thought of it yet. So I'd be asking for both a new class, which wasn't available at character creation, and the new work of integrating into the game. It's do-able, and I can help, but I'm not sure if it's necessary. We've already run up against an Astral Construct wilder, negating my use of Unearthly Terror. I'm not sure yet if the DM is a fan of immunities to mind affecting or not. I'm trying to stay low-key compared to my party members, who are playing for the first time (thus the Society Mind and Harmonizer choices). Somehow, I don't think saying "You see that guy? The physical embodiment of all your worst fears and nightmares? Yeah, he's my agent." is quite going to help with that. The Terrors ability feels like a set of augmentable psionic manuevers (or a multi-optioned form of Stunning Fist). Very interesting mechanic, but something I'll need to mull over to fully understand and use well. Same goes for the split importance of INT for PP/terror DCs and CHA for max power limit/manifesting DCs. Of course, we've got a level or two. It may end up that by the time I actually have to decide, the DM could have incorporated everything and I'll be well-versed on all the ins and outs of the class. What do you see as the major advantage of the Morphean over the PsyRogue? And how would you build one? Hmm... DEX, INT, and CHA are all important. CHA seems to be the most important (number of Terrors and eventually the Shroud of Fears deflection bonus). INT is right behind with bonus PP and increased Terror DCs. DEX for AC and attack bonus (via Weapon Finesse) early on. Dreamscarred starts looking good, since we are using LA buy-off. Okay I'm thinking about it... I'll talk to my DM too.
DracoPhoenix 01-08-08, 11:42 AM	How about a psionic artificer? They have trapfinding and search IIRC. Not sure they can sneak as much though. But it's worth it for the 62% off (packing the appropriate feats) magic items. Also as a thrallherd, you don't have to worry about the xp drain (nighty night... NEXT!)
Lycanthromancer 01-08-08, 11:53 AM	If you want to do something interesting, get a bunch of 1st level rogues, then treat them as a swarm (I forget where the swarm template is for groups of humanoids...PHB2?). Imagine the sneak attack damage! You could also use the swarm for trap-searching, and your higher-level thrall for...something else.
jbsaff 01-08-08, 02:35 PM	If you want to do something interesting, get a bunch of 1st level rogues, then treat them as a swarm I immediately thought of a bunch of halflings crawling through a tunnel, up the walls across the ceiling, and over each other. Hilarious. Okay, after consulation with the DM: Morphean is approved as a class. The world is changing, magic is gone, things are screwed up anyway. Why not add in a few scary freaks? ;-) We can figure out the details if/when we get to needing them. So, what race to use? How about the Drow? +2 CHA, INT, and DEX (my big three), with SR, some SLAs, and "only" a +2 LA. I asked my DM, and he came up with a history and location for his world. We now have drow philospher sage isolationists who live above ground. After reworking the SLAs to some 1st level Psi-like abilities that fit what he had in mind, losing the darkvision and light blindness, and tweaking the weapon proficiencies, we ended up with a +1 LA on Soldarin's calculator. Which is gravy in my book, since I just want the ability bonuses and the secret door detection. So then, it looks like I'll be going with a modified Drow Morphean as my agent. After re-reading the class again, I see enough options to use even against stuff immune to mind-affecting or fear effects. I can also use the Terrors to boost everyone's combat effectiveness, so I'm less concerned with out-shining the other players. (Many thanks to Bacris and angellis on the DSP forums for helping me figure out the Terrors) For those who care, this is what the Drow are like: ************************************** ************** Modified Drow +2 INT +2 CHA +2 DEX -2 CON Low-light vision, as the high elf. Power resistance equal to 11 + class levels. +2 racial bonus on Will saves against spells/powers and spell-like/psi-like abilities. Psi-Like Abilities: Drow can use the following psi-like abilities once per day: Call to Mind, Conceal Thoughts, Know Direction and Location. Manifester level equals the drow’s class levels. Weapon Proficiency: A drow is automatically proficient with the longsword, rapier, longbow, composite longbow, shortbow, and composite shortbow as a high elf. Automatic Languages: Common, Elven. Bonus Languages: Aquan, Draconic, Drow Sign Language, Gnome, Goblin. This trait replaces the high elf’s automatic and bonus languages. No drow Poison(Ex) ability. LA +1 ************************************ ****************