Using powers from anothers powers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Using powers from anothers powers [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Andramadus
06-30-07, 12:56 AM After addressing a power stone it does not need to be done again, so I believe you can use your own power points to use the power within the stone, plus since you used your own points the stone remains unused.

My question is if you have already addressed a stone, shouldn't it be a standard action to use your own power points to activate the power?

Manifest an Unknown Power from Another’s Powers Known
A psionic character can attempt to manifest a power from a source other than his own knowledge (usually a power stone or another willing psionic character). To do so, the character must first make contact (a process similar to addressing a power stone, requiring a Psicraft check against a DC of 15 + the highest level power in the power stone or repertoire). A psionic character can make contact with only a willing psionic character or creature (unconscious creatures are considered willing, but not psionic characters under the effects of other immobilizing conditions). Characters who can’t use power stones for any reason are also banned from attempting to manifest powers from the knowledge of other psionic characters. Mental contact requires 1 full round of physical contact, which can provoke attacks of opportunity. Once contact is achieved, the character becomes aware of all the powers stored in the power stone or all the powers the other character knows up to the highest level of power the contactor knows himself.

Next, the psionic character must choose one of the powers and make a second Psicraft check (DC 15 + the power’s level) to see if he understands it. If the power is not on his class list, he automatically fails this check.

Upon successfully making contact with another willing psionic character or creature and learning what he can of one power in particular, the character can immediately attempt to manifest that power even if he doesn’t know it (and assuming he has power points left for the day). He can attempt to manifest the power normally on his next turn, and he succeeds if he makes one additional Psicraft check (DC 15 + the power’s level). He retains the ability to manifest the selected power for only 1 round. If he doesn’t manifest the power, fails the Psicraft check, or manifests a different power, he loses his chance to manifest that power for the day.

A power stone must be “addressed” before a character can use it or know exactly what power it contains. Doing this requires a successful Psicraft check (DC 15 + power level). Once a particular power stone has been addressed, it is not necessary to do so again. Addressing a power stone in advance lets a character proceed directly to the next step when the time comes to use it.

Using a stone’s stored power after addressing the stone requires holding the stone and willing the power’s manifestation, as if manifesting a power normally (a standard action). Activating a power stone is subject to disruption just as manifesting a power normally would be.
InkBlot
06-30-07, 01:09 AM This has been rehashed about at least two other times in the past week, and countless times in the past year.

... anyway...

Notice how the last paragraph, the only paragraph that talks about using your own power points, never mentions power stones? It also doesn't make any acceptions to the normal rules for powerstones.

The first two paragraphs only use power stones as an anology to help the reader understand how to manifest powers from another psion's head. They're consitent with the normal rules for power stones, which are found towards the back of the book with the other psionic items.

You can't use manifest from a power stone without flushing it. Complete Psionic says you can use your own ML for the stone if you spend your own PP, but that's an optional rule that doesn't appear in the Expanded Psionics Handbook.

InkBlot, out.

edit: Here's one of the many many threads where this idea has been argued before. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=871441)
Andramadus
06-30-07, 01:21 AM Seems to me your just stating your opinions to sway/balance the ability, let's see a page number or something. What does complete psi have to say?
InkBlot
06-30-07, 01:23 AM Read the other thread. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=871441) And I already mentioned what Complete Psionics said.
Andramadus
06-30-07, 01:43 AM What page number in Complete Psi does it clarify this? Or give the variant system?
AntiDjinn
06-30-07, 03:17 AM Page 168 of the XPH the text is unambiguous: "A stored power can be used only once, "flushing" the stone." Pretty clear: It can be used once. Nothing in the section on using power points contradicts this. So whether you use the charge or your own points the stone is used. You may have produced a table rule that using your own points means the power is not flushed, but there is no portion of the text that states this.

Anyway, the point of using your own points to manifest a power from a stone is not to save the charge (they are priced to be one-shots; you can have buckets of them) but because you can use your own manifester level and apply any other manifesting tricks you have (like Wild Surge, if you happen to have levels of wilder). You can take a power stone of Charm, that was prepared at level 1, and manifest the power at a higher ML, augmenting the power to boost DC and duration and affect a broader scope of targets that the item was crafted to do. It is also important when using a stone with a power with an XP cost; the crafter had to pay the full XP cost when the stone was made. You can spend power points to get a better overall effect, but the XP cost was already covered (and, again, the stone is still used). Those are the rather considerable advantages to using your own points and manifesting ability with a stone, saving charges is the last thing to worry about.
Phoenix00
07-01-07, 11:59 PM What page number in Complete Psi does it clarify this? Or give the variant system?

Page 105.

In the rule replacing section you can augment, use metapsionic feats, manifester level, and ability score. If you do so you pay the power point cost (since the power is treated as a powers known at this time). Has to use a full round action though the previous round prior to manifesting to attune yourself to the stone (thus you waste a turn).

The stone is also flushed after you use it in such a fashion.

or you can not waste a full round action followed by another action manifesting the power and just cast the power with the invested energy.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Andramadus 06-30-07, 12:56 AM	After addressing a power stone it does not need to be done again, so I believe you can use your own power points to use the power within the stone, plus since you used your own points the stone remains unused. My question is if you have already addressed a stone, shouldn't it be a standard action to use your own power points to activate the power? Manifest an Unknown Power from Another’s Powers Known A psionic character can attempt to manifest a power from a source other than his own knowledge (usually a power stone or another willing psionic character). To do so, the character must first make contact (a process similar to addressing a power stone, requiring a Psicraft check against a DC of 15 + the highest level power in the power stone or repertoire). A psionic character can make contact with only a willing psionic character or creature (unconscious creatures are considered willing, but not psionic characters under the effects of other immobilizing conditions). Characters who can’t use power stones for any reason are also banned from attempting to manifest powers from the knowledge of other psionic characters. Mental contact requires 1 full round of physical contact, which can provoke attacks of opportunity. Once contact is achieved, the character becomes aware of all the powers stored in the power stone or all the powers the other character knows up to the highest level of power the contactor knows himself. Next, the psionic character must choose one of the powers and make a second Psicraft check (DC 15 + the power’s level) to see if he understands it. If the power is not on his class list, he automatically fails this check. Upon successfully making contact with another willing psionic character or creature and learning what he can of one power in particular, the character can immediately attempt to manifest that power even if he doesn’t know it (and assuming he has power points left for the day). He can attempt to manifest the power normally on his next turn, and he succeeds if he makes one additional Psicraft check (DC 15 + the power’s level). He retains the ability to manifest the selected power for only 1 round. If he doesn’t manifest the power, fails the Psicraft check, or manifests a different power, he loses his chance to manifest that power for the day. A power stone must be “addressed” before a character can use it or know exactly what power it contains. Doing this requires a successful Psicraft check (DC 15 + power level). Once a particular power stone has been addressed, it is not necessary to do so again. Addressing a power stone in advance lets a character proceed directly to the next step when the time comes to use it. Using a stone’s stored power after addressing the stone requires holding the stone and willing the power’s manifestation, as if manifesting a power normally (a standard action). Activating a power stone is subject to disruption just as manifesting a power normally would be.
InkBlot 06-30-07, 01:09 AM	This has been rehashed about at least two other times in the past week, and countless times in the past year. ... anyway... Notice how the last paragraph, the only paragraph that talks about using your own power points, never mentions power stones? It also doesn't make any acceptions to the normal rules for powerstones. The first two paragraphs only use power stones as an anology to help the reader understand how to manifest powers from another psion's head. They're consitent with the normal rules for power stones, which are found towards the back of the book with the other psionic items. You can't use manifest from a power stone without flushing it. Complete Psionic says you can use your own ML for the stone if you spend your own PP, but that's an optional rule that doesn't appear in the Expanded Psionics Handbook. InkBlot, out. edit: Here's one of the many many threads where this idea has been argued before. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=871441)
Andramadus 06-30-07, 01:21 AM	Seems to me your just stating your opinions to sway/balance the ability, let's see a page number or something. What does complete psi have to say?
InkBlot 06-30-07, 01:23 AM	Read the other thread. (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=871441) And I already mentioned what Complete Psionics said.
Andramadus 06-30-07, 01:43 AM	What page number in Complete Psi does it clarify this? Or give the variant system?
AntiDjinn 06-30-07, 03:17 AM	Page 168 of the XPH the text is unambiguous: "A stored power can be used only once, "flushing" the stone." Pretty clear: It can be used once. Nothing in the section on using power points contradicts this. So whether you use the charge or your own points the stone is used. You may have produced a table rule that using your own points means the power is not flushed, but there is no portion of the text that states this. Anyway, the point of using your own points to manifest a power from a stone is not to save the charge (they are priced to be one-shots; you can have buckets of them) but because you can use your own manifester level and apply any other manifesting tricks you have (like Wild Surge, if you happen to have levels of wilder). You can take a power stone of Charm, that was prepared at level 1, and manifest the power at a higher ML, augmenting the power to boost DC and duration and affect a broader scope of targets that the item was crafted to do. It is also important when using a stone with a power with an XP cost; the crafter had to pay the full XP cost when the stone was made. You can spend power points to get a better overall effect, but the XP cost was already covered (and, again, the stone is still used). Those are the rather considerable advantages to using your own points and manifesting ability with a stone, saving charges is the last thing to worry about.
Phoenix00 07-01-07, 11:59 PM	What page number in Complete Psi does it clarify this? Or give the variant system? Page 105. In the rule replacing section you can augment, use metapsionic feats, manifester level, and ability score. If you do so you pay the power point cost (since the power is treated as a powers known at this time). Has to use a full round action though the previous round prior to manifesting to attune yourself to the stone (thus you waste a turn). The stone is also flushed after you use it in such a fashion. or you can not waste a full round action followed by another action manifesting the power and just cast the power with the invested energy.