Vigor query [Archive] - Wizards Community

Vigor query [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Blackwlf
08-07-07, 12:28 PM Okay, simply: how does it work?

More specific, how does it work when you manifest it a second time before the first has expired?

If you manifest it for, say, 25 hp, lose 20 of those, then manifest a second vigor at the same power, what occurs?

My understanding, based on the power description, was that it has no effect ot manifest it a second time except for increasing the duration.

Many of the other players in my game, however, contend that if you do so, it basically refills the temporary hp. Manifest it for 25, lost 20, manifest it again and you're back to a full 25.
Blackwlf
08-07-07, 12:30 PM What if, following the same line, you manifest it again at a lower pp cost, or at a higher pp cost? If you manifest it for 25 hp, lost 20, then manifest it for 30 hp, what occurs? Or if you manifest it for 25hp, lost 20, then manifest it for 15 hp?
Tealgorthian
08-07-07, 12:39 PM I don't know if this is actually how it works, but this is the way we play it.

You manifest Vigor, and gain 25hp.

Something hits you for 20. You have 5 Vigor HP left.

You manifest it again, this time for 15hp. Since 15 > 5(remaining from the old), your new Vigor overrides the old one.

Now, if you HADN'T been attacked, and you (for whatever reason) manifested a 15hp Vigor, we rule that you don't gain a new one, your old one continues. Psionics are power of the MIND. You're subconscious knows what is good for you, even if you don't
Tempest Stormwind
08-07-07, 12:41 PM Temporary HP never stack, they overlap.

If you manifest a 6pp Vigor for 30 HP, take 20 damage, you have 10 temp HP remaining.

The second Vigor must provide more than 10 temp HP for it to have any impact whatsoever.

In your specific example -- a 5pp Vigor, followed by <25 damage, followed by a 5pp Vigor -- you would end up with 25 temporary HP.
Blackwlf
08-07-07, 12:47 PM Okay, then can someone explain the line in the power description that states that a second manifestion only replaces older hp, if any remain, with newer? I understood that to mean that if 5 hp remained when you remanifest it, the only effect would be replacing the older duration 5hp with a new duration 5hp.
CrimsonDeath
08-07-07, 01:31 PM That just means that if you have more temporary HP from the new Vigor, you can effectively ignore the old ones. The old ones will go away when the duration on that one expires, but it won't matter because they overlap with the new ones, which have their own duration (which will probably be just as long as the duration of the old ones, but starting later).

Unfortunately, it gets complicated if you have two sources of temporary HP and only one of them gets dispelled...
NoldorForce
08-07-07, 01:37 PM Temporary HP never stack, they overlap.Not quite true. Temporary hit points from different sources stack, and are taken off on a first-in-first-out basis. But temporary hit points from the same source (as here with multiple manifestations of Vigor) indeed overlap.
munin
08-07-07, 01:38 PM The second Vigor must provide more than 10 temp HP for it to have any impact whatsoever.
Although temporary hit points from different sources the same source usually overlap, vigor specifically states that a subsequent manifestation replaces "older" temporary hit points from a previous manifestation. If you manifest a 5pp vigor to gain 25 temporary hit points, lose 15 (leaving you with 10), then manifest a 1pp vigor, you'll only have 5 temporary hit points, because the 10 were replaced by the 5.

Edit: NoldorForce is correct about temporary hit points:

Temporary hit points from two applications of the same effect don’t stack; instead, the highest number of temporary hit points applies in place of all others. Temporary hit points from different sources stack, but you must keep track of them separately. ... Temporary hit points are “first-in, first-out.” Damage should be taken off the oldest temporary-hit-point-granting effect first; when that effect is exhausted, apply damage to the next oldest effect.

vigor is still an exception to the first part of this rule, because of its wording.
Scion of Coldshard
08-07-07, 04:18 PM Temporary hp have too many different rulings all over.. bah ;/

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Blackwlf 08-07-07, 12:28 PM	Okay, simply: how does it work? More specific, how does it work when you manifest it a second time before the first has expired? If you manifest it for, say, 25 hp, lose 20 of those, then manifest a second vigor at the same power, what occurs? My understanding, based on the power description, was that it has no effect ot manifest it a second time except for increasing the duration. Many of the other players in my game, however, contend that if you do so, it basically refills the temporary hp. Manifest it for 25, lost 20, manifest it again and you're back to a full 25.
Blackwlf 08-07-07, 12:30 PM	What if, following the same line, you manifest it again at a lower pp cost, or at a higher pp cost? If you manifest it for 25 hp, lost 20, then manifest it for 30 hp, what occurs? Or if you manifest it for 25hp, lost 20, then manifest it for 15 hp?
Tealgorthian 08-07-07, 12:39 PM	I don't know if this is actually how it works, but this is the way we play it. You manifest Vigor, and gain 25hp. Something hits you for 20. You have 5 Vigor HP left. You manifest it again, this time for 15hp. Since 15 > 5(remaining from the old), your new Vigor overrides the old one. Now, if you HADN'T been attacked, and you (for whatever reason) manifested a 15hp Vigor, we rule that you don't gain a new one, your old one continues. Psionics are power of the MIND. You're subconscious knows what is good for you, even if you don't
Tempest Stormwind 08-07-07, 12:41 PM	Temporary HP never stack, they overlap. If you manifest a 6pp Vigor for 30 HP, take 20 damage, you have 10 temp HP remaining. The second Vigor must provide more than 10 temp HP for it to have any impact whatsoever. In your specific example -- a 5pp Vigor, followed by <25 damage, followed by a 5pp Vigor -- you would end up with 25 temporary HP.
Blackwlf 08-07-07, 12:47 PM	Okay, then can someone explain the line in the power description that states that a second manifestion only replaces older hp, if any remain, with newer? I understood that to mean that if 5 hp remained when you remanifest it, the only effect would be replacing the older duration 5hp with a new duration 5hp.
CrimsonDeath 08-07-07, 01:31 PM	That just means that if you have more temporary HP from the new Vigor, you can effectively ignore the old ones. The old ones will go away when the duration on that one expires, but it won't matter because they overlap with the new ones, which have their own duration (which will probably be just as long as the duration of the old ones, but starting later). Unfortunately, it gets complicated if you have two sources of temporary HP and only one of them gets dispelled...
NoldorForce 08-07-07, 01:37 PM	Temporary HP never stack, they overlap.Not quite true. Temporary hit points from different sources stack, and are taken off on a first-in-first-out basis. But temporary hit points from the same source (as here with multiple manifestations of Vigor) indeed overlap.
munin 08-07-07, 01:38 PM	The second Vigor must provide more than 10 temp HP for it to have any impact whatsoever. Although temporary hit points from different sources the same source usually overlap, vigor specifically states that a subsequent manifestation replaces "older" temporary hit points from a previous manifestation. If you manifest a 5pp vigor to gain 25 temporary hit points, lose 15 (leaving you with 10), then manifest a 1pp vigor, you'll only have 5 temporary hit points, because the 10 were replaced by the 5. Edit: NoldorForce is correct about temporary hit points: Temporary hit points from two applications of the same effect don’t stack; instead, the highest number of temporary hit points applies in place of all others. Temporary hit points from different sources stack, but you must keep track of them separately. ... Temporary hit points are “first-in, first-out.” Damage should be taken off the oldest temporary-hit-point-granting effect first; when that effect is exhausted, apply damage to the next oldest effect. vigor is still an exception to the first part of this rule, because of its wording.
Scion of Coldshard 08-07-07, 04:18 PM	Temporary hp have too many different rulings all over.. bah ;/