Warmind Underpowered? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Warmind Underpowered? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Yadot
03-09-08, 10:02 PM Does any one else think that the Warmind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/warMind.htm) is underpowered, or if not underpowered then at least 'meh'?

I mean, throughout 10 levels of the class you only get 6 powers known and only 70 base power points. The Chains of personal superiority/defensive posture only provide a +2 bonus (+4 at 7,8, respectively) for three minutes a day each. Don't get me wrong, not all the abilities are useless. Sweeping strike can be really good with Cleave and Mithril Tornado and Dr/- is always nice, but the capstone ability, the Chain of overwhelming force, can be used once a day and does only 10d6 extra damage. 10d6 at a level where Wizards can cast 8th level spells and Psions just got level 8 powers. How can 10d6 damage compare to Fusion or Greater Shadow Evocation?

If you feel the Warmind is underpowered, what tweaks would you recommend for bringing it up to par?
SlanderPanic
03-09-08, 10:38 PM It's a solid class. You get free-action buffs that stack with nearly everything, a handful of useful powers with their own manifester level, DR, full BAB, d10 hit points, and Sweeping Strike. Sweeping Strike is worth the price of admission all by itself.

I'll agree that Chain Of Overwhelming Force isn't too thrilling when compared to what wizards and psions can dish out... but, if you're a war mind, you shouldn't be trying to compete with those guys anyway. Your job is to find the biggest, baddest guy and make him cry for his Mommy. Chain of Overwhelming Force + Deep Impact = instant attitude adjustment. Even if it doesn't outright kill the target, it'll make him think twice about his current choice of careers.

War mind is a good class for psychic warriors, but where it really shines is when it's combined with another full-BAB melee class. A paladin/war mind or crusader/war mind can be pretty spectacular.

It's not a full-BAB base class, but I've personally had a lot of fun with a soulknife/war mind. Bladewind + Sweeping Strike can clear a crowded space pretty quickly, especially if you also combine it with expansion.

Try it yourself and see!
Count Arioch the 28th
03-09-08, 11:41 PM Put one vote for the "meh" line of thought. It just doesn't impress me.
TazendrasGhost
03-10-08, 12:00 PM I think its a great class. Sweeping Strike is a really good ability. Combine it with Monk and Tashalatora, or with ToB maneuvers and its really nice.
Tempest Stormwind
03-10-08, 01:53 PM I'd rate it a B, maybe a B+ on its own if you know what you're doing with it.

Add in the Tome of Battle, and it goes up to an A. (Mostly for how Sweeping Strike interacts with martial strikes, plus the collection of decent buffs -- Strength of My Enemy is a great example.) A warblade or crusader with levels in War Mind can be freaking *insane* (crusader moreso, because of its slightly higher reliance on Wisdom and its higher innate toughness).

Generally, you don't go all 10 levels in it. You take 5 levels in it for Sweeping Strike, then use something like Talashatora or a +1 Existing Level class to boost its manifesting, which is surprisingly good for a prestige class.

SlanderPanic: I never thought of Bladewind + Sweeping Strike before. That's rather clever (especially if you do the sane thing and say Psychic Strike hits everything on a bladewind).
JulesCARV
03-10-08, 02:49 PM I think the warmind's biggest problem is more the difficulty of entry by the classes with which it interacts best than the prestige class once you've managed to get into it. If the prerequisites were somehow fiddled a bit... maybe 4 ranks in knowledge (psionics) and 8 ranks in concentration. I dunno.
SlanderPanic
03-10-08, 10:29 PM SlanderPanic: I never thought of Bladewind + Sweeping Strike before. That's rather clever (especially if you do the sane thing and say Psychic Strike hits everything on a bladewind).

I never tried to put that through the DM I was playing under at the time. (Then again, I also gave him Mind Cleave.) The character was, regardless, pretty adept at hustling into a room at 55 feet (Speed of Thought, Boots of Skating, mithril breastplate) and then wiping out everyone who looked remotely hostile.
The_Shaman
03-10-08, 10:47 PM It's a solid class. You get free-action buffs that stack with nearly everything, a handful of useful powers with their own manifester level, DR, full BAB, d10 hit points, and Sweeping Strike. Sweeping Strike is worth the price of admission all by itself...

War mind is a good class for psychic warriors, but where it really shines is when it's combined with another full-BAB melee class. A paladin/war mind or crusader/war mind can be pretty spectacular.

It's not a full-BAB base class, but I've personally had a lot of fun with a soulknife/war mind. Bladewind + Sweeping Strike can clear a crowded space pretty quickly, especially if you also combine it with expansion.

I find it pretty good, myself. It's not the best option for a psionic character, but can work very well for a mostly martial character with a small psionic dip (PW or Psionic Fist). Remember that when you have several psionic progressions, they all use the same PP pool - so a Fighter 4/PW 2/Warmind 10 will use the PPs for warmind for their PW powers as well.

It's also a great option for Tashalatora Monk. For a monk-heavy build, I can suggest monk 6/ Psionic Fist 4/Warmind 10, using PF for useful powers that don't augment all that well.
Wih
03-11-08, 01:29 AM It's not a class for Psionic characters - it's a class for mundanes who want Sweeping Strike and Psionics. For Melee Characters who focus on Combat Control or reach weapons, it's one of the best PrCs out there (thought I'm sure to get a lot of flak for that) - Sweeping Strike + Expansion at ML 7th is deadly enough - add in Improved Trip, and you're getting 4 attacks on each group of two characters you attack, for every attack you get. It gets even more ridiculous with Combat Reflexes, Great Cleave (one of the only situations I'd ever suggest it) and mobs of enemies.
Even without facing mobs, Full bab, Sweeping Strike, DR, 5th level powers, free action buffs...it's a gem. People think the Suel Arcanamach is good - this gives the same level of casting while giving all these other gems, and full BAB. I'm sold.
CrimsonDeath
03-11-08, 12:24 PM War mind is a good class for psychic warriors

I disagree with that. You do get more PP in the mid-levels, but a single-class PsyWar will outclass that a couple of levels after the War Mind runs out of War Mind levels, and it splits the character into having two MLs (both lower than his character level) rather than one (equal to his character level).
SlanderPanic
03-11-08, 09:26 PM I didn't say you weren't making a sacrifice going into it. That's why it's a good class for psychic warriors, rather than a great one. A single-classed psychic warrior has a better ML, more feats, and higher-level powers, it's true. On the other hand, he has a lower BAB and hit points and he also lacks free-action buffs. You just have to decide what's more important to your character.

I'm actually playing a character right now who decided not to go into psychic warrior (after working through all the prerequisites, including hunting for the Talariic Codex) because the higher manifester level was more important for what we were doing. Power points aren't everything.
PhaedrusXY
03-12-08, 12:42 PM Put another vote down for "It is great for some character types".
hogarth
03-12-08, 12:56 PM 10d6 at a level where Wizards can cast 8th level spells and Psions just got level 8 powers. How can 10d6 damage compare to Fusion or Greater Shadow Evocation?
If you're rating every class using a full caster (or manifester) as your benchmark, then you're going to find an awful lot of "underpowered" classes out there!

"The Frenzied Berserker sucks! Why, he can't even cast a simple 'Gate' spell!" :) (just kidding!)
Yadot
03-12-08, 07:22 PM Well you've all talked me over to the its good for martial characters side. I guess I only looked at the Warmind from a psionic standpoint and not as a class for mainly non-psionic characters.

Tempest, how would a Crusader's or a Warblade's abilities interact with Sweeping Strike? I'm afraid I don't have Tome of Battle.
SlanderPanic
03-12-08, 08:35 PM In a nutshell, martial adepts (the classes from ToB) have a variety of abilities they can use once each per encounter. These include special attacks called strikes. Sweeping strike lets you apply a martial strike to two enemies at once, getting double the bang for your buck.

For example, let's say a crusader 10/war mind 10 uses Radiant Charge, a 5th level Devoted Mind strike, combined with sweeping strike, chain of overwhelming force, and Deep Impact. Radiant Charge allows you to do an extra 6d6 damage against an evil opponent with a charge attack and also gain DR 10 for a round. This means, as a touch attack with a +2 bonus (from the charge,) you're doing your regular melee damage and 16d6 untyped extra damage to two opponents.

And, of course, there are plenty of other ways to up that damage. The crusader has a smite ability. He could be using a deep crystal, power storing weapon with a hostile empathic transfer inside. He could have Psicrystal Containment and Greater Psionic Weapon.

And he can put out all this damage in a single turn, without pre-buffing.
JulesCARV
03-12-08, 10:38 PM Being a crusader/warmind (or any martial adept, who have neither knowledge (psionics) nor knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (although swordsages seem like a viable candidate for knowledge (all skills, taken individually), they don't get it)), you have to take education at 1st level, or skill knowledge (knowledge (psionics)) at any other level, to get into warmind any sooner than 13th level.
hogarth
03-13-08, 07:09 AM Being a crusader/warmind (or any martial adept, who have neither knowledge (psionics) nor knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (although swordsages seem like a viable candidate for knowledge (all skills, taken individually), they don't get it)), you have to take education at 1st level, or skill knowledge (knowledge (psionics)) at any other level, to get into warmind any sooner than 13th level.
...or just a single level in a class that does have it as a class skill (like duskblade or psychic warrior) and buy the rest of the ranks cross-class.
RadicalTaoist
03-13-08, 07:57 PM Imagine a warblade/warmind using Sweeping Strike with Adamantine Hurricane.
The_Shaman
03-15-08, 11:20 AM Being a crusader/warmind (or any martial adept, who have neither knowledge (psionics) nor knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (although swordsages seem like a viable candidate for knowledge (all skills, taken individually), they don't get it)), you have to take education at 1st level, or skill knowledge (knowledge (psionics)) at any other level, to get into warmind any sooner than 13th level.

You need a PP reserve anyway, so a few PW levels - or FoZ ones if you're a monk - are always a good idea... Something like Swordsage 4/PW 2 might be an okay way to go for it.
InkBlot
03-16-08, 03:07 PM You need Wild Talent for Fist Of Zuoken, so there's no real point in taking Fist Of Zuoken just to satisfy the PP requirement of War Mind.

However, Fist Of Zuoken does give you Knowledge (Psionics) as a class skill and enough skill points to get eight ranks in two levels even if your Int is 10 (or 8 if human). You also get more power points (3) than you would from two levels of Psywar (1), but you lose out on two feats, so it's probably not worth it. At the very least, those two feats could have been two Psionic Talents (5pp). Fist Of Zuoken also has a smaller hit die.
Turin
03-16-08, 04:23 PM I've got a soulknife in my campaign who I'm trying to steer into this class, too. Soulknife is so awful that Warmind is actually a big improvement. (This is particularly true if you have some real warrior-types in the party who make the soulknife look like a tool all the time, as I do in the game I'm running.)

Edit: crap, I forgot. The soulknife in my game is a kalashtar, so he's got the PP requirement already.
CrimsonDeath
03-16-08, 05:52 PM Edit: crap, I forgot. The soulknife in my game is a kalashtar, so he's got the PP requirement already.

Even if he weren't a Kalashtar, Soulknife grants Wild Talent at level 1, so he has the PP anyway.
TravisOfTheCosmose
03-16-08, 08:07 PM As long as we're on the topic, how does Sweeping Strike work with Avalanche of Blades? Do you count that when you hit only one of the two targets that it "didn't miss" or the other way around? Or, the ruling I'm leaning towards is a more crunchy one, wherein since the target entry for Avalanche of Blades only specifies one creature, that is the one creature you must hit with each attack to grant another?
Turin
03-16-08, 08:19 PM Even if he weren't a Kalashtar, Soulknife grants Wild Talent at level 1, so he has the PP anyway.
Uh... um... uh... unless he's taken kalashtar substitution levels! :P
(i.e. oops, I forgot!)
sijigs
03-25-08, 01:19 AM Hi y'all. Haven't been here in a while but to the OP... Check out this build:

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=925916

:)
The_Shaman
03-25-08, 07:39 AM You need Wild Talent for Fist Of Zuoken, so there's no real point in taking Fist Of Zuoken just to satisfy the PP requirement of War Mind.

I believe a FAQ article mentions that psionic races don't need WT to qualify for the FoZ. I think it also meant that any PP reserve can do, but I'm not so sure on that part.
CrimsonDeath
03-25-08, 12:33 PM I believe a FAQ article mentions that psionic races don't need WT to qualify for the FoZ. I think it also meant that any PP reserve can do, but I'm not so sure on that part.

Regardless, since the FoZ still requires a PP reserve, it doesn't help meet the PP reserve requirement of another class.
The_Shaman
03-25-08, 02:04 PM True. It helps with getting the knowledge ranks and a few powers known, though.
InkBlot
03-25-08, 02:55 PM You get more power points, and just as many powers, from taking two levels in Psychic Warrior. The extra power points come from the Psywar bonus feats, if you spend one of them on Psionic Talent.

Then you can use your second bonus feat to get the combat-related feat you wanted, freeing up your character feat for Open Minded. That tactic gives you more skill points than two levels of Fist Of Zuoken would. Psywars also have Knowledge (Psionics).

Really, the only reason to take Fist Of Zuoken over Psywar in this case is if you want to advance your Monk abilities. It doesn't even grant you Monk abilities if you don't already have them. If it did that then it would come out on top, in my opinion.
taylors005
04-22-08, 11:15 PM why is warminds level 4 a dead level?:confused:
Tempest Stormwind
04-22-08, 11:35 PM why is warminds level 4 a dead level?:confused:

Okay, definition time.

A "level that doesn't have anything in the Special column" isn't a dead level, unless you think clerics have 19 dead levels.

A "dead level" is a level that contributes nothing significant to your character, period. The best example in the Player's Handbook is Fighter 5 -- you play exactly the same way you did at level 4, but with bigger numbers (and not even all the numbers; saves are unchanged). No character feat, no extra attack from high attack bonus, no Special, no nothing.

Warmind 4 is not a dead level, because it gives you not only a new power, but also access to 2nd level powers, which have a wealth of tactical options in them (hint: STRENGTH OF MY ENEMY!!!). Furthermore, since your ML is now 3, and most *really* nifty augments improve with a multiple of 2 extra power points (i.e. saves improve, effects significantly jump, and so on), all your old powers improve a notch as well. Add to this a significant boost in power points -- with just a 16 Wisdom after items, it's an increase of 54% -- and this is not a dead level. It's the same thing the wizard gets every two levels, when he gets a new spell level, with a more martial bent.
taylors005
04-23-08, 12:12 AM my bad
i just saw larger numbers and didnt think about it

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Yadot 03-09-08, 10:02 PM	Does any one else think that the Warmind (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/warMind.htm) is underpowered, or if not underpowered then at least 'meh'? I mean, throughout 10 levels of the class you only get 6 powers known and only 70 base power points. The Chains of personal superiority/defensive posture only provide a +2 bonus (+4 at 7,8, respectively) for three minutes a day each. Don't get me wrong, not all the abilities are useless. Sweeping strike can be really good with Cleave and Mithril Tornado and Dr/- is always nice, but the capstone ability, the Chain of overwhelming force, can be used once a day and does only 10d6 extra damage. 10d6 at a level where Wizards can cast 8th level spells and Psions just got level 8 powers. How can 10d6 damage compare to Fusion or Greater Shadow Evocation? If you feel the Warmind is underpowered, what tweaks would you recommend for bringing it up to par?
SlanderPanic 03-09-08, 10:38 PM	It's a solid class. You get free-action buffs that stack with nearly everything, a handful of useful powers with their own manifester level, DR, full BAB, d10 hit points, and Sweeping Strike. Sweeping Strike is worth the price of admission all by itself. I'll agree that Chain Of Overwhelming Force isn't too thrilling when compared to what wizards and psions can dish out... but, if you're a war mind, you shouldn't be trying to compete with those guys anyway. Your job is to find the biggest, baddest guy and make him cry for his Mommy. Chain of Overwhelming Force + Deep Impact = instant attitude adjustment. Even if it doesn't outright kill the target, it'll make him think twice about his current choice of careers. War mind is a good class for psychic warriors, but where it really shines is when it's combined with another full-BAB melee class. A paladin/war mind or crusader/war mind can be pretty spectacular. It's not a full-BAB base class, but I've personally had a lot of fun with a soulknife/war mind. Bladewind + Sweeping Strike can clear a crowded space pretty quickly, especially if you also combine it with expansion. Try it yourself and see!
Count Arioch the 28th 03-09-08, 11:41 PM	Put one vote for the "meh" line of thought. It just doesn't impress me.
TazendrasGhost 03-10-08, 12:00 PM	I think its a great class. Sweeping Strike is a really good ability. Combine it with Monk and Tashalatora, or with ToB maneuvers and its really nice.
Tempest Stormwind 03-10-08, 01:53 PM	I'd rate it a B, maybe a B+ on its own if you know what you're doing with it. Add in the Tome of Battle, and it goes up to an A. (Mostly for how Sweeping Strike interacts with martial strikes, plus the collection of decent buffs -- Strength of My Enemy is a great example.) A warblade or crusader with levels in War Mind can be freaking insane (crusader moreso, because of its slightly higher reliance on Wisdom and its higher innate toughness). Generally, you don't go all 10 levels in it. You take 5 levels in it for Sweeping Strike, then use something like Talashatora or a +1 Existing Level class to boost its manifesting, which is surprisingly good for a prestige class. SlanderPanic: I never thought of Bladewind + Sweeping Strike before. That's rather clever (especially if you do the sane thing and say Psychic Strike hits everything on a bladewind).
JulesCARV 03-10-08, 02:49 PM	I think the warmind's biggest problem is more the difficulty of entry by the classes with which it interacts best than the prestige class once you've managed to get into it. If the prerequisites were somehow fiddled a bit... maybe 4 ranks in knowledge (psionics) and 8 ranks in concentration. I dunno.
SlanderPanic 03-10-08, 10:29 PM	SlanderPanic: I never thought of Bladewind + Sweeping Strike before. That's rather clever (especially if you do the sane thing and say Psychic Strike hits everything on a bladewind). I never tried to put that through the DM I was playing under at the time. (Then again, I also gave him Mind Cleave.) The character was, regardless, pretty adept at hustling into a room at 55 feet (Speed of Thought, Boots of Skating, mithril breastplate) and then wiping out everyone who looked remotely hostile.
The_Shaman 03-10-08, 10:47 PM	It's a solid class. You get free-action buffs that stack with nearly everything, a handful of useful powers with their own manifester level, DR, full BAB, d10 hit points, and Sweeping Strike. Sweeping Strike is worth the price of admission all by itself... War mind is a good class for psychic warriors, but where it really shines is when it's combined with another full-BAB melee class. A paladin/war mind or crusader/war mind can be pretty spectacular. It's not a full-BAB base class, but I've personally had a lot of fun with a soulknife/war mind. Bladewind + Sweeping Strike can clear a crowded space pretty quickly, especially if you also combine it with expansion. I find it pretty good, myself. It's not the best option for a psionic character, but can work very well for a mostly martial character with a small psionic dip (PW or Psionic Fist). Remember that when you have several psionic progressions, they all use the same PP pool - so a Fighter 4/PW 2/Warmind 10 will use the PPs for warmind for their PW powers as well. It's also a great option for Tashalatora Monk. For a monk-heavy build, I can suggest monk 6/ Psionic Fist 4/Warmind 10, using PF for useful powers that don't augment all that well.
Wih 03-11-08, 01:29 AM	It's not a class for Psionic characters - it's a class for mundanes who want Sweeping Strike and Psionics. For Melee Characters who focus on Combat Control or reach weapons, it's one of the best PrCs out there (thought I'm sure to get a lot of flak for that) - Sweeping Strike + Expansion at ML 7th is deadly enough - add in Improved Trip, and you're getting 4 attacks on each group of two characters you attack, for every attack you get. It gets even more ridiculous with Combat Reflexes, Great Cleave (one of the only situations I'd ever suggest it) and mobs of enemies. Even without facing mobs, Full bab, Sweeping Strike, DR, 5th level powers, free action buffs...it's a gem. People think the Suel Arcanamach is good - this gives the same level of casting while giving all these other gems, and full BAB. I'm sold.
CrimsonDeath 03-11-08, 12:24 PM	War mind is a good class for psychic warriors I disagree with that. You do get more PP in the mid-levels, but a single-class PsyWar will outclass that a couple of levels after the War Mind runs out of War Mind levels, and it splits the character into having two MLs (both lower than his character level) rather than one (equal to his character level).
SlanderPanic 03-11-08, 09:26 PM	I didn't say you weren't making a sacrifice going into it. That's why it's a good class for psychic warriors, rather than a great one. A single-classed psychic warrior has a better ML, more feats, and higher-level powers, it's true. On the other hand, he has a lower BAB and hit points and he also lacks free-action buffs. You just have to decide what's more important to your character. I'm actually playing a character right now who decided not to go into psychic warrior (after working through all the prerequisites, including hunting for the Talariic Codex) because the higher manifester level was more important for what we were doing. Power points aren't everything.
PhaedrusXY 03-12-08, 12:42 PM	Put another vote down for "It is great for some character types".
hogarth 03-12-08, 12:56 PM	10d6 at a level where Wizards can cast 8th level spells and Psions just got level 8 powers. How can 10d6 damage compare to Fusion or Greater Shadow Evocation? If you're rating every class using a full caster (or manifester) as your benchmark, then you're going to find an awful lot of "underpowered" classes out there! "The Frenzied Berserker sucks! Why, he can't even cast a simple 'Gate' spell!" :) (just kidding!)
Yadot 03-12-08, 07:22 PM	Well you've all talked me over to the its good for martial characters side. I guess I only looked at the Warmind from a psionic standpoint and not as a class for mainly non-psionic characters. Tempest, how would a Crusader's or a Warblade's abilities interact with Sweeping Strike? I'm afraid I don't have Tome of Battle.
SlanderPanic 03-12-08, 08:35 PM	In a nutshell, martial adepts (the classes from ToB) have a variety of abilities they can use once each per encounter. These include special attacks called strikes. Sweeping strike lets you apply a martial strike to two enemies at once, getting double the bang for your buck. For example, let's say a crusader 10/war mind 10 uses Radiant Charge, a 5th level Devoted Mind strike, combined with sweeping strike, chain of overwhelming force, and Deep Impact. Radiant Charge allows you to do an extra 6d6 damage against an evil opponent with a charge attack and also gain DR 10 for a round. This means, as a touch attack with a +2 bonus (from the charge,) you're doing your regular melee damage and 16d6 untyped extra damage to two opponents. And, of course, there are plenty of other ways to up that damage. The crusader has a smite ability. He could be using a deep crystal, power storing weapon with a hostile empathic transfer inside. He could have Psicrystal Containment and Greater Psionic Weapon. And he can put out all this damage in a single turn, without pre-buffing.
JulesCARV 03-12-08, 10:38 PM	Being a crusader/warmind (or any martial adept, who have neither knowledge (psionics) nor knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (although swordsages seem like a viable candidate for knowledge (all skills, taken individually), they don't get it)), you have to take education at 1st level, or skill knowledge (knowledge (psionics)) at any other level, to get into warmind any sooner than 13th level.
hogarth 03-13-08, 07:09 AM	Being a crusader/warmind (or any martial adept, who have neither knowledge (psionics) nor knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (although swordsages seem like a viable candidate for knowledge (all skills, taken individually), they don't get it)), you have to take education at 1st level, or skill knowledge (knowledge (psionics)) at any other level, to get into warmind any sooner than 13th level. ...or just a single level in a class that does have it as a class skill (like duskblade or psychic warrior) and buy the rest of the ranks cross-class.
RadicalTaoist 03-13-08, 07:57 PM	Imagine a warblade/warmind using Sweeping Strike with Adamantine Hurricane.
The_Shaman 03-15-08, 11:20 AM	Being a crusader/warmind (or any martial adept, who have neither knowledge (psionics) nor knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (although swordsages seem like a viable candidate for knowledge (all skills, taken individually), they don't get it)), you have to take education at 1st level, or skill knowledge (knowledge (psionics)) at any other level, to get into warmind any sooner than 13th level. You need a PP reserve anyway, so a few PW levels - or FoZ ones if you're a monk - are always a good idea... Something like Swordsage 4/PW 2 might be an okay way to go for it.
InkBlot 03-16-08, 03:07 PM	You need Wild Talent for Fist Of Zuoken, so there's no real point in taking Fist Of Zuoken just to satisfy the PP requirement of War Mind. However, Fist Of Zuoken does give you Knowledge (Psionics) as a class skill and enough skill points to get eight ranks in two levels even if your Int is 10 (or 8 if human). You also get more power points (3) than you would from two levels of Psywar (1), but you lose out on two feats, so it's probably not worth it. At the very least, those two feats could have been two Psionic Talents (5pp). Fist Of Zuoken also has a smaller hit die.
Turin 03-16-08, 04:23 PM	I've got a soulknife in my campaign who I'm trying to steer into this class, too. Soulknife is so awful that Warmind is actually a big improvement. (This is particularly true if you have some real warrior-types in the party who make the soulknife look like a tool all the time, as I do in the game I'm running.) Edit: crap, I forgot. The soulknife in my game is a kalashtar, so he's got the PP requirement already.
CrimsonDeath 03-16-08, 05:52 PM	Edit: crap, I forgot. The soulknife in my game is a kalashtar, so he's got the PP requirement already. Even if he weren't a Kalashtar, Soulknife grants Wild Talent at level 1, so he has the PP anyway.
TravisOfTheCosmose 03-16-08, 08:07 PM	As long as we're on the topic, how does Sweeping Strike work with Avalanche of Blades? Do you count that when you hit only one of the two targets that it "didn't miss" or the other way around? Or, the ruling I'm leaning towards is a more crunchy one, wherein since the target entry for Avalanche of Blades only specifies one creature, that is the one creature you must hit with each attack to grant another?
Turin 03-16-08, 08:19 PM	Even if he weren't a Kalashtar, Soulknife grants Wild Talent at level 1, so he has the PP anyway. Uh... um... uh... unless he's taken kalashtar substitution levels! :P (i.e. oops, I forgot!)
sijigs 03-25-08, 01:19 AM	Hi y'all. Haven't been here in a while but to the OP... Check out this build: http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=925916 :)
The_Shaman 03-25-08, 07:39 AM	You need Wild Talent for Fist Of Zuoken, so there's no real point in taking Fist Of Zuoken just to satisfy the PP requirement of War Mind. I believe a FAQ article mentions that psionic races don't need WT to qualify for the FoZ. I think it also meant that any PP reserve can do, but I'm not so sure on that part.
CrimsonDeath 03-25-08, 12:33 PM	I believe a FAQ article mentions that psionic races don't need WT to qualify for the FoZ. I think it also meant that any PP reserve can do, but I'm not so sure on that part. Regardless, since the FoZ still requires a PP reserve, it doesn't help meet the PP reserve requirement of another class.
The_Shaman 03-25-08, 02:04 PM	True. It helps with getting the knowledge ranks and a few powers known, though.
InkBlot 03-25-08, 02:55 PM	You get more power points, and just as many powers, from taking two levels in Psychic Warrior. The extra power points come from the Psywar bonus feats, if you spend one of them on Psionic Talent. Then you can use your second bonus feat to get the combat-related feat you wanted, freeing up your character feat for Open Minded. That tactic gives you more skill points than two levels of Fist Of Zuoken would. Psywars also have Knowledge (Psionics). Really, the only reason to take Fist Of Zuoken over Psywar in this case is if you want to advance your Monk abilities. It doesn't even grant you Monk abilities if you don't already have them. If it did that then it would come out on top, in my opinion.
taylors005 04-22-08, 11:15 PM	why is warminds level 4 a dead level?:confused:
Tempest Stormwind 04-22-08, 11:35 PM	why is warminds level 4 a dead level?:confused: Okay, definition time. A "level that doesn't have anything in the Special column" isn't a dead level, unless you think clerics have 19 dead levels. A "dead level" is a level that contributes nothing significant to your character, period. The best example in the Player's Handbook is Fighter 5 -- you play exactly the same way you did at level 4, but with bigger numbers (and not even all the numbers; saves are unchanged). No character feat, no extra attack from high attack bonus, no Special, no nothing. Warmind 4 is not a dead level, because it gives you not only a new power, but also access to 2nd level powers, which have a wealth of tactical options in them (hint: STRENGTH OF MY ENEMY!!!). Furthermore, since your ML is now 3, and most really nifty augments improve with a multiple of 2 extra power points (i.e. saves improve, effects significantly jump, and so on), all your old powers improve a notch as well. Add to this a significant boost in power points -- with just a 16 Wisdom after items, it's an increase of 54% -- and this is not a dead level. It's the same thing the wizard gets every two levels, when he gets a new spell level, with a more martial bent.
taylors005 04-23-08, 12:12 AM	my bad i just saw larger numbers and didnt think about it