What Erudite Spells do you want? [Archive] - Wizards Community

What Erudite Spells do you want? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Andramadus
07-01-07, 11:44 AM Well with the new article of minds eye and Erudites can now use wizards spells, just wondering what spells you want for your charcter?
CrimsonDeath
07-01-07, 03:35 PM Since spell-powers not only need to be augmented for extra damage but also have the normal damage caps, I think you'd want to avoid them (particularly since most of them have psionic equivalents). The exception would be things like Acid Fog, Incendiary Cloud, and Evard's Black Tentacles that ignore SR and often have battlefield-control applications-- qualities that are generally lacking in psionic powers. The ones I mentioned also do damage that scales with duration rather than directly with caster level, and spell-powers explicitly have durations based on manifester level without augmentation. You might also want to pick up some utility spells that don't have direct psionic equivalents, like Invisibility, as well as some save-or-die spells that will affect nonliving or mind-immune opponents.
kyeudo
07-01-07, 03:36 PM Prestidigitation.
Gate
Mordenkainen's Disjunction
Prismatic Sphere
Polymorph Any Object
Force Cage
Reverse Gravity
Invisibility

Thats my personal wish list.
ChinchillaofDoom
07-01-07, 06:53 PM Summon Monster, in games using the Astral Construct nerf.
Khan the Destroyer
07-01-07, 07:05 PM Limited Wish opens up any other sorcerer/wizard spell of 6th level or lower, and any other spell (doesn't have to be a wizard/sorcerer spell) of 5th level or lower.

Being able to spontaneously cast any spell of 5th level or lower is pretty versatile in my opinion.
AntiDjinn
07-01-07, 07:21 PM You would only bother with spells that don't already have a psionic equivalent. As the rules stood, you could always research a new power that duplicates the effect of an existing spell, subject to DM approval of course. Using the normal rules for independent research does not require you to give up your first level bonus feat, but normal power research costs more XP and takes longer.

As an erudite you will want spells that are versatile. You only get to use a handful of unique powers per day so you will chose to translate spells that are useful in a variety of situations. Defensive spells like Wings of Cover (maybe not legal, it is sorcerer only) Ruin Delver's Fortune, and Ray Deflection are good bets. Ruby Ray of Reversal is a solution to a wide array of problems so it would also be a good choice.
RavinRay
07-01-07, 07:38 PM Invisibility
This would actually give the game a chance to re-introduce those 3.0 powers that have magical equivalents but were not updated to 3.5 like ectoplasmic armor and feather fall.
MikeN
07-01-07, 10:05 PM Invisibility and the Greater Version are nice. Alter Self is pretty decent. Glitterdust and Blindness/Deafness are cute. Haste, Slow, Web, Stinking Cloud, Solid Fog and its relatives (Acid Fog, Freezing Fog, etc). Polymorph Any Object. Limited Wish. Shades, Shadow Conjuration, Shadow Evocation are decent options. Forcecage. Mordenkainen's Disjunction. Gate. Shapechange.

Just offhand.
ReaderOfPosts
07-01-07, 11:50 PM Where does it say wizard only?

Without that, it's downright nasty. Improvisation, Otto's irresistable dance...
AntiDjinn
07-02-07, 01:58 AM The alternate class feature does not specify wizard only, however, Races of the Dragon and Dragon Magic introduced new spells that are restricted to sorcerers only. Even if the are used in spell completion items, they can't be used by non-sorcerers because they depend on the caster having a draconic bloodline. Some of them are strong enough to actually make you want to play a sorcerer. Confusingly, though you need to have draconic blood to cast these spells at all, some of them include special bonuses if the caster has the "Dragonblooded" sub-type, which represents stronger ties to a draconic ancestor. From the wording of these spells it seems the author considered class and racial restictions to be pretty much the same.

In any case, these specific spells migh be impossible to port, unless you also have the right sub-type; a kobold erudite would qualifiy if I understand the restriction correctly.
Phoenix00
07-02-07, 02:55 AM It is all arcane spells, get those unique bard spells, wu-jen, sorcerer (races of the dragon also has sorc only spells like dragonmagic), Assassin, Trapsmith, Nar Demonbinder (you want blaspehmy right), etc.

Instant Summonings would be a cool spell for an Arcane erudite, you can effectively cast your arcane mark on items at will and just pay the 13 pp+2pp to bypass the component. Every items in your inventory will probably be catalogue like this..

In a jail, instant summon your party's equipment.
Lost an intelligent item, instant summon it back.
Send in an item into the BBEG lair (BBEG has mind blank on), make sure the item will be something he will be touching or in possession, instant summons on it and you just bypassed any problems with mindblank, for you now know enough info to teleport on his ass.
Or be a rich thief who sells an item to a pawn shop. He then instant summons the time back after receiving the gold. (make sure the item is going to be stored in a vault or something.)

And what the hell happens when you use the pay the 2 pp option to bypass the material component with plain old fashion arcane fabricate. Can I use this to create something out of nothing? (use linked power to speed up creation time). If so say hello to my adamintine castle. Castle walls with 40 hit points per inch and hardness 20. Or create gold or gems out of nowhere.
Salick
07-02-07, 12:27 PM cure light wounds from the bard list is considered arcane. I can see it now "did someone say they needed an army healed up?"
kyeudo
07-02-07, 08:00 PM cure light wounds from the bard list is considered arcane. I can see it now "did someone say they needed an army healed up?"

That is sick. 343d6+343 points of healing has got to be awesome.
QuarianRex
07-02-07, 08:40 PM That is sick. 343d6+343 points of healing has got to be awesome.
Actually, that would be 343d8+1715 points of healing (Cure light wounds does 1d8+5 after 5th level, the limited ML only applies to the damage portion of spells that are calculated as dice/level).
JoshuaZ
07-02-07, 10:30 PM Greater Shadow Conjuration, Greater Shadow Evocation (nice for general flexibility). I think I may be able to make an argument (still thinking it through) that spells duplicated with these would not be subject to the ML restrictions for the Erudite. Also, I like Mage’s Lucubration just for the rule confusion it would create if one were a pure Erudite. Some combination of Erudite/Wizard/Cerebemancer might be able to use Lucubration to effectively count their power points towards wizard spells. At minimum, one wouldn't need as many low level slots, so one might be able to use the feat that combines two slots of level n to get a slot of level n+1 when preparing spells to get a lot of high level slots and keep some versatility. Someone who is better at optimazation will probably tell me that it won't actuallywork well.

Arcane Fusion might be helpful if used correctly with other spells.
Andramadus
07-03-07, 02:13 AM Monster summoning and invisibility. The perfect combo.:)
Sarlax
07-03-07, 08:56 PM The Shadow line is quite good because it taps only one unique power per day while providing the effect of many spells. Nice. Illusions in general are nice additions because they produce effects that psionics generally cannot.

Don't forget the slew of arcane classes (warmage, dread necromancer, beguiler, duskblade, etc.) that convert many divine spells to arcane.

The best conversions are those arcane spells with expensive material components. Try Trap the Soul without needing the expensive gem! Clone creatures without having their flesh! Magic Jar without a gem. Etc.

Guess which class just became the best at creating undead? ... That's right - the erudite. Now Animate Dead, Create Undead, all function Greater Create Undead without expensive components!
Phoenix00
07-03-07, 09:10 PM Shalantha's Delicate Disk, Lost Empires of Faerun on page 33, Wiz/Sorc 6.

You create a disk which you or somebody else can cast a spell in of 5th lvl or lower. The disk lasts indefinately till broken. When the disk is broke the spell is discharged, effecting the person who broke it, or if an area spell the area around the broken disk.

Material compoment of 200gp.

Since the disks last indefinately, use them combine with your party wizard, cleric, etc, to store extra spells. Buff spells (Divine Power), and healing spells seem to work the best. It is a standard action to break the disk.
Andramadus
07-04-07, 07:44 AM Shalantha's Delicate Disk, Lost Empires of Faerun on page 33, Wiz/Sorc 6.

You create a disk which you or somebody else can cast a spell in of 5th lvl or lower. The disk lasts indefinately till broken. When the disk is broke the spell is discharged, effecting the person who broke it, or if an area spell the area around the broken disk.

Material compoment of 200gp.

Since the disks last indefinately, use them combine with your party wizard, cleric, etc, to store extra spells. Buff spells (Divine Power), and healing spells seem to work the best. It is a standard action to break the disk.

A bunch of these is exactly what I want to hurl with telekinesis.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Andramadus 07-01-07, 11:44 AM	Well with the new article of minds eye and Erudites can now use wizards spells, just wondering what spells you want for your charcter?
CrimsonDeath 07-01-07, 03:35 PM	Since spell-powers not only need to be augmented for extra damage but also have the normal damage caps, I think you'd want to avoid them (particularly since most of them have psionic equivalents). The exception would be things like Acid Fog, Incendiary Cloud, and Evard's Black Tentacles that ignore SR and often have battlefield-control applications-- qualities that are generally lacking in psionic powers. The ones I mentioned also do damage that scales with duration rather than directly with caster level, and spell-powers explicitly have durations based on manifester level without augmentation. You might also want to pick up some utility spells that don't have direct psionic equivalents, like Invisibility, as well as some save-or-die spells that will affect nonliving or mind-immune opponents.
kyeudo 07-01-07, 03:36 PM	Prestidigitation. Gate Mordenkainen's Disjunction Prismatic Sphere Polymorph Any Object Force Cage Reverse Gravity Invisibility Thats my personal wish list.
ChinchillaofDoom 07-01-07, 06:53 PM	Summon Monster, in games using the Astral Construct nerf.
Khan the Destroyer 07-01-07, 07:05 PM	Limited Wish opens up any other sorcerer/wizard spell of 6th level or lower, and any other spell (doesn't have to be a wizard/sorcerer spell) of 5th level or lower. Being able to spontaneously cast any spell of 5th level or lower is pretty versatile in my opinion.
AntiDjinn 07-01-07, 07:21 PM	You would only bother with spells that don't already have a psionic equivalent. As the rules stood, you could always research a new power that duplicates the effect of an existing spell, subject to DM approval of course. Using the normal rules for independent research does not require you to give up your first level bonus feat, but normal power research costs more XP and takes longer. As an erudite you will want spells that are versatile. You only get to use a handful of unique powers per day so you will chose to translate spells that are useful in a variety of situations. Defensive spells like Wings of Cover (maybe not legal, it is sorcerer only) Ruin Delver's Fortune, and Ray Deflection are good bets. Ruby Ray of Reversal is a solution to a wide array of problems so it would also be a good choice.
RavinRay 07-01-07, 07:38 PM	Invisibility This would actually give the game a chance to re-introduce those 3.0 powers that have magical equivalents but were not updated to 3.5 like ectoplasmic armor and feather fall.
MikeN 07-01-07, 10:05 PM	Invisibility and the Greater Version are nice. Alter Self is pretty decent. Glitterdust and Blindness/Deafness are cute. Haste, Slow, Web, Stinking Cloud, Solid Fog and its relatives (Acid Fog, Freezing Fog, etc). Polymorph Any Object. Limited Wish. Shades, Shadow Conjuration, Shadow Evocation are decent options. Forcecage. Mordenkainen's Disjunction. Gate. Shapechange. Just offhand.
ReaderOfPosts 07-01-07, 11:50 PM	Where does it say wizard only? Without that, it's downright nasty. Improvisation, Otto's irresistable dance...
AntiDjinn 07-02-07, 01:58 AM	The alternate class feature does not specify wizard only, however, Races of the Dragon and Dragon Magic introduced new spells that are restricted to sorcerers only. Even if the are used in spell completion items, they can't be used by non-sorcerers because they depend on the caster having a draconic bloodline. Some of them are strong enough to actually make you want to play a sorcerer. Confusingly, though you need to have draconic blood to cast these spells at all, some of them include special bonuses if the caster has the "Dragonblooded" sub-type, which represents stronger ties to a draconic ancestor. From the wording of these spells it seems the author considered class and racial restictions to be pretty much the same. In any case, these specific spells migh be impossible to port, unless you also have the right sub-type; a kobold erudite would qualifiy if I understand the restriction correctly.
Phoenix00 07-02-07, 02:55 AM	It is all arcane spells, get those unique bard spells, wu-jen, sorcerer (races of the dragon also has sorc only spells like dragonmagic), Assassin, Trapsmith, Nar Demonbinder (you want blaspehmy right), etc. Instant Summonings would be a cool spell for an Arcane erudite, you can effectively cast your arcane mark on items at will and just pay the 13 pp+2pp to bypass the component. Every items in your inventory will probably be catalogue like this.. In a jail, instant summon your party's equipment. Lost an intelligent item, instant summon it back. Send in an item into the BBEG lair (BBEG has mind blank on), make sure the item will be something he will be touching or in possession, instant summons on it and you just bypassed any problems with mindblank, for you now know enough info to teleport on his ass. Or be a rich thief who sells an item to a pawn shop. He then instant summons the time back after receiving the gold. (make sure the item is going to be stored in a vault or something.) And what the hell happens when you use the pay the 2 pp option to bypass the material component with plain old fashion arcane fabricate. Can I use this to create something out of nothing? (use linked power to speed up creation time). If so say hello to my adamintine castle. Castle walls with 40 hit points per inch and hardness 20. Or create gold or gems out of nowhere.
Salick 07-02-07, 12:27 PM	cure light wounds from the bard list is considered arcane. I can see it now "did someone say they needed an army healed up?"
kyeudo 07-02-07, 08:00 PM	cure light wounds from the bard list is considered arcane. I can see it now "did someone say they needed an army healed up?" That is sick. 343d6+343 points of healing has got to be awesome.
QuarianRex 07-02-07, 08:40 PM	That is sick. 343d6+343 points of healing has got to be awesome. Actually, that would be 343d8+1715 points of healing (Cure light wounds does 1d8+5 after 5th level, the limited ML only applies to the damage portion of spells that are calculated as dice/level).
JoshuaZ 07-02-07, 10:30 PM	Greater Shadow Conjuration, Greater Shadow Evocation (nice for general flexibility). I think I may be able to make an argument (still thinking it through) that spells duplicated with these would not be subject to the ML restrictions for the Erudite. Also, I like Mage’s Lucubration just for the rule confusion it would create if one were a pure Erudite. Some combination of Erudite/Wizard/Cerebemancer might be able to use Lucubration to effectively count their power points towards wizard spells. At minimum, one wouldn't need as many low level slots, so one might be able to use the feat that combines two slots of level n to get a slot of level n+1 when preparing spells to get a lot of high level slots and keep some versatility. Someone who is better at optimazation will probably tell me that it won't actuallywork well. Arcane Fusion might be helpful if used correctly with other spells.
Andramadus 07-03-07, 02:13 AM	Monster summoning and invisibility. The perfect combo.:)
Sarlax 07-03-07, 08:56 PM	The Shadow line is quite good because it taps only one unique power per day while providing the effect of many spells. Nice. Illusions in general are nice additions because they produce effects that psionics generally cannot. Don't forget the slew of arcane classes (warmage, dread necromancer, beguiler, duskblade, etc.) that convert many divine spells to arcane. The best conversions are those arcane spells with expensive material components. Try Trap the Soul without needing the expensive gem! Clone creatures without having their flesh! Magic Jar without a gem. Etc. Guess which class just became the best at creating undead? ... That's right - the erudite. Now Animate Dead, Create Undead, all function Greater Create Undead without expensive components!
Phoenix00 07-03-07, 09:10 PM	Shalantha's Delicate Disk, Lost Empires of Faerun on page 33, Wiz/Sorc 6. You create a disk which you or somebody else can cast a spell in of 5th lvl or lower. The disk lasts indefinately till broken. When the disk is broke the spell is discharged, effecting the person who broke it, or if an area spell the area around the broken disk. Material compoment of 200gp. Since the disks last indefinately, use them combine with your party wizard, cleric, etc, to store extra spells. Buff spells (Divine Power), and healing spells seem to work the best. It is a standard action to break the disk.
Andramadus 07-04-07, 07:44 AM	Shalantha's Delicate Disk, Lost Empires of Faerun on page 33, Wiz/Sorc 6. You create a disk which you or somebody else can cast a spell in of 5th lvl or lower. The disk lasts indefinately till broken. When the disk is broke the spell is discharged, effecting the person who broke it, or if an area spell the area around the broken disk. Material compoment of 200gp. Since the disks last indefinately, use them combine with your party wizard, cleric, etc, to store extra spells. Buff spells (Divine Power), and healing spells seem to work the best. It is a standard action to break the disk. A bunch of these is exactly what I want to hurl with telekinesis.