Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Mathus 07-20-07, 06:11 PM	I posted this in the DM thread but I thought I would post it here also in case you have run across this before. I have a player with a new character and he has asked me this question. The Elocater (Expanded Psi p143) has Scorn Earth that lets you glide 1ft above the ground moving mentally. As long as you are just gliding and not moving unnecessarily, it seems like you would get a huge move silently bonus. What do you think? I am thinking of replying with this answer. Looking for relevant examples I have come across these two items. Listen DC 0 - People talking 5 - A person in medium armor walking at a slow pace (10 ft./round) trying not to make any noise. 10 - An unarmored person walking at a slow pace (15 ft./round) trying not to make any noise 15 - A 1st-level rogue using Move Silently to sneak past the listener 15 - People whispering 19 - A cat stalking 30 - An owl gliding in for a kill THE DM'S BEST FRIEND A favorable circumstance gives a character a +2 bonus on a skill check (or a –2 modifier to the DC) and an unfavorable one gives a –2 penalty on the skill check (or a +2 modifier to the DC). Going beyond the Rule: It's certainly acceptable to modify this rule. For extremely favorable or unfavorable circumstances, you can use modifiers greater than +2 and less than –2. For example, you can decide that a task is practically impossible and modify the roll or the DC by 20. Feel free to modify these numbers as you see fit, using modifiers from 2 to 20. Taking into consideration a base of 10 and then the DC is modified above that leads to the medium person trying to sneak wearing no armor. I would rule the move silently while flying or levitating would give you the stealth of a cat. You still have equipment on you that may jingle, creak, rub, or just make noise in general. You would actually have to have sound damping equipment like the feathers of an owl to make your noise an "impossible" check. So when levitating you gain a +9 circumstance bonus to move silently checks.
Millenia 07-20-07, 06:14 PM	Personally, I would just negate the penalties for moving in noisy terrain (like a forest floor) and let that be it.
Nibbler 07-20-07, 06:36 PM	Legs, arms, and carried items aren't swinging/colliding. I would say +5 to +10 if the character is concentrating on holding still.
AAB 07-20-07, 07:01 PM	i'd give +10, but that might be too generous.
HighPriestMikhal 07-20-07, 07:05 PM	Logically, it negates penalties for terrain and running on Move Silently only. Similar to a levitating or flying character. As for bonuses, it's your game. Do what you want.
calronmoonflower 07-21-07, 01:30 AM	As a general rule of thumb favorable circumstances add a +2 circumstance bonus. Negating penalties for terrain also makes sense.
ReaderOfPosts 07-22-07, 02:49 PM	That makes sense, but how often do DMs usually add penalties for things like the average forest, crunching snow, creaking floorboards etc. If half the terrain carries penalties, you better balance it out with something. I personally would rule a +5, which seems reasonable.
Mathus 07-23-07, 12:27 PM	Thanks for you input everyone. Here is the final ruling in my game. DMs and the psionics board give me mixed replies. Some say that it would give no bonuses while one even said they would give you a -10 move silently just for asking and make your psionic power hum when you fly. But for the most part people say a +5 to +10 bonus to move silently. What I will do is rule +5 when moving or gliding and a +10 if you are just standing still. That gives a nice bonus without it being to powerful.
Gauze Fireforge 07-24-07, 12:02 AM	Thanks for you input everyone. Here is the final ruling in my game. I believe a 3.0 reference was that it gave a +6 bonus to move silently. Of course, I couldn't reference that for you but it is the rule we use in our games.
forsaken1111 07-24-07, 02:41 PM	Why would you ever need a bonus to move silently while standing still? The skill is only used when you're moving... silently.
AntiDjinn 07-25-07, 04:39 AM	Just being off the ground does not mean you move with complete silence. The Concorde flies, and it can't exactly sneak up on anyone. All that is removed is the sound of your footfalls, snapping twigs (underfoot anyway, moving through heavy forrest means you are still brushing against foliage), and crunching snow won't be a problem. But interaction with the ground is only a portion of the sound a moving being generates. You may still have chinking armor, creaking joints, a growling stomach, breaking wind at the wrong moment, a bumping into objects, etc. as sources of noise. If you are trying to eavesdrop on a conversation you don't take a penalty if the speakers are not touching the floor. So if you are making a listen check to hear someone sneaking you should never be penalized on the DC by more than you would have received as a bonus were a non-floater walking over the same surface.
forsaken1111 07-25-07, 05:01 AM	Just being off the ground does not mean you move with complete silence. The Concorde flies, and it can't exactly sneak up on anyone. All that is removed is the sound of your footfalls, snapping twigs (underfoot anyway, moving through heavy forrest means you are still brushing against foliage), and crunching snow won't be a problem. But interaction with the ground is only a portion of the sound a moving being generates. You may still have chinking armor, creaking joints, a growling stomach, breaking wind at the wrong moment, a bumping into objects, etc. as sources of noise. If you are trying to eavesdrop on a conversation you don't take a penalty if the speakers are not touching the floor. So if you are making a listen check to hear someone sneaking you should never be penalized on the DC by more than you would have received as a bonus were a non-floater walking over the same surface. Who was this directed to? I didn't see anyone claim that just being off the ground made you completely silent. In fact most people said it would only negate whatever terrain penalties there were.
AntiDjinn 07-25-07, 12:23 PM	It was directed to the OP who wanted to know if the elocator should get a huge bonus to Move Silently, even though none is detailed in the PrC and none is called for by the Fly and Levetate spells. Climbing a rope also gets your feet off the floor yet it grants no bonus. At best, it should negate penalties that the surface would normally inflict. Maybe an additional +2 because those nearby who know there is a nightengale floor or shards of broken glass present will not be listening particularly hard for anything else. Beyond that, if the ability was supposed to grant a bonus or even negate the need to roll then it would say so.