Why the Crystal Fetish? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Why the Crystal Fetish? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Climhazzard
05-19-07, 03:50 PM Mechanically, I love psionics with the versatility power points and augmentations offer over Vancian spell slots, but one thing has always irked me; why do psionics in D&D revolve so much around crystals?

I know I can change the flavor so that crystals are not so prominent, but I'm curious why the default flavor revolves around crystals. Last I checked, no well-known fiction that includes psychics have crystals as major objects.
Deekin
05-19-07, 04:00 PM http://us.media.blizzard.com/starcraft2/images/artwork/ss12.jpg

These people are the reason for all the psionic crystals.
Eled_the_Worm_Tamer
05-19-07, 04:06 PM Actulay Crystals are of use in medatation and attaining mental focus in RL, just call in at any new age shop (Man I hated saying that) and ask for some pamflets on crystal therapy. And even before taht were used in such a manner. Many crystals have traditonal uses, Amathest for example aids sobriety.
The Ubbergeek
05-19-07, 04:40 PM Real world esoterism, plus Dark Sun influence.

Crystals have special proprieties....
InkBlot
05-19-07, 04:43 PM This (http://www.crystalinks.com/crystals.html) is a webpage about crystals written by a woman named Crystal, who believes she is psychic. In particular, look at her page on Atlantean Crystals (http://www.crystalinks.com/atlanteancrystals.html) and Crystal Bowls (http://www.crystalinks.com/crystalbowls.html).

It may have been Edgar Cayce (http://skepdic.com/cayce.html) (and if you know anything about psychics you should know that name) who first made crystals wildly popular as psychic whojamawhatsists. Anyway, the use of crystals as psychic power receptacles, mental focuses, et cetera, goes back a long time.

Although the psionics system has plenty of basis in literature, psionics also has more basis in real world mysticism than most other aspects of D&D.
Climhazzard
05-19-07, 05:00 PM Ah, so real-world esoterica is where the crystal-philia comes from? Thank you everyone.

For some reason, I've always associated New Age psychic junk of crystals as being translated into some variation of magic, or just using crystals for remote viewing. Not freezing time, telekinesis, mind control, teleporting, or other psionic mainstays.

Next questions: Does anyone else feel that default D&D psionics has TOO much crystals? Also, how hard would it be to adapt certain arcane prestige classes and feats (such as Loremaster and Obtain Familiar) for use by psionic characters?
Tempest Stormwind
05-19-07, 05:05 PM Everything crystal-themed can be completely replaced in psionics. Virtually all of it is fluff. The only things that aren't are the psicrystal's hardness and lack of basic movement skills (without Self-Propulsion) and the crystal weaponry (which is softer than steel, unless we're talking Deep Crystal which can channel psionic energy into a strike).

For the record, the only crystals that show up in my psionic characters are incorporated into equipment. They serve no purpose mechanically whatsoever, although when the item's used they tend to glow or sparkle from within (It's easy to tell when a spellcaster's using a staff, for instance, so why should it be harder to tell if someone' using a psicrown?).

As for some classes, I'd avoid it. Magic classes are almost never balanced -- anything with full casting is too good. This isn't the case with psions.
Sarrazon
05-19-07, 07:59 PM These people are the reason for all the psionic crystals.
Deekin, You are a GOD
BadCatMan
05-19-07, 08:15 PM Crystals were also used by some medieval alchemists for having visions and stuff, as well as the old crystal ball of the fortune teller.

Quite interestingly, much of D&D Psionics derives from real-world magic and mysticism, while much of D&D magic instead comes from a science-fiction writer.
Particle_Man
05-20-07, 12:51 AM Though for magic items, D&D does have those Ioun Stones. Crystals that revolve around your head!
serow_#R
05-20-07, 01:18 AM Mechanically, I love psionics with the versatility power points and augmentations offer over Vancian spell slots, but one thing has always irked me; why do psionics in D&D revolve so much around crystals?

I know I can change the flavor so that crystals are not so prominent, but I'm curious why the default flavor revolves around crystals. Last I checked, no well-known fiction that includes psychics have crystals as major objects.
I remove almost all crystal references in my game, coz it just isn't my idea of psi. :)
InkBlot
05-20-07, 02:51 AM Does anyone else feel that default D&D psionics has TOO much crystals?
Sometimes. Sometimes I want to play a character who's just has mystic powers. If the character has any crystals, their incorporated into other piece of equipment, and they're just gemstones (as opposed to faceted chunks of quartz).

Other times, I want to play an exotic wierdo. The character will have all sorts of wierd devices, many of which are either completely made of huge faceted chunks of crystal, or heavily feature huge chunks of crystal.
Unholy_King
05-20-07, 11:59 AM I thought I remember reading a quote from one of the people who wrote the XPH and he said the psionics revolved around crystals to give it a unique feeling. Without the crystal fluff, psionics is almost indistinguishable from magic.

I could be crazy though.
ferreon
05-20-07, 06:02 PM A suggestion from out of left field for you

Warhammer 40k, has psykers who can use force weapons. Anyone care to guess what the core of most force weapons happens to be? A particular kind of psychically resonant crystal which makes it easier to focus psi-talent through to cause mind crushings attacks.

As I said...a seriously left field thought for you...and probably not correct (as in, it's more likely to share the same source as the D & D psionics crystal fetish, than be the source)
The Ubbergeek
05-20-07, 06:37 PM Is there anyone here who know Dark Sun well, can he tell us if crystals had some importance there in psionic? Because it always reminded me of this setting.
TimelordSimone
05-20-07, 06:57 PM A suggestion from out of left field for you

Warhammer 40k, has psykers who can use force weapons. Anyone care to guess what the core of most force weapons happens to be? A particular kind of psychically resonant crystal which makes it easier to focus psi-talent through to cause mind crushings attacks.

As I said...a seriously left field thought for you...and probably not correct (as in, it's more likely to share the same source as the D & D psionics crystal fetish, than be the source)

Also (may be wrong, haven't played in ages) the Eldar use spirit stones to augment their psychic power.
I believe.
That, and so the God they created doesn't eat their souls...
Glak
05-20-07, 07:29 PM I knew Dark Sun pretty well but I don't remember anything about crystals. Obsidian was very important but it was more tied in with magic.
Kresalak
05-20-07, 08:28 PM Also (may be wrong, haven't played in ages) the Eldar use spirit stones to augment their psychic power.
I believe.
That, and so the God they created doesn't eat their souls...

Khorne Berserkers sometimes stab people with crystals, if their axes break or something.
Lina_Inverse
05-21-07, 06:19 AM These people are the reason for all the psionic crystals.

That should be a good enough reason for anyone.
Fabius Maximus
05-21-07, 07:39 AM That should be a good enough reason for anyone.
Why? What are they?
Lycanthromancer
05-21-07, 08:12 AM Why? What are they?They're absolutely awesome.

And likely psiforged.
Terazul
05-21-07, 10:35 AM They're absolutely awesome.

And likely psiforged.
Actually, they're the Protoss from Starcraft... But yeah, awesome.
Artector
05-21-07, 02:25 PM Actually, they're the Protoss from Starcraft... But yeah, awesome.

Its a Zealot to be specific... and they rocked, you could kill a ton of marines with them... the good old days...

I get tired of the crystals occasionally, but they do give a very unique feel to DND psionics. And for some reason... its just seems to fit.
obrysii
05-21-07, 02:33 PM Actually, they're the Protoss from Starcraft... But yeah, awesome.

In game-terms I could see it being a Soulknife Psiforged.
Lina_Inverse
05-21-07, 02:48 PM Why? What are they?

Zealots from starcraft. It is the perfection of RTS, 10 years old and still the best ever made.

Go buy it NOW. Theres no excuse not to own it!
Tempest Stormwind
05-21-07, 03:03 PM Its a Zealot to be specific... and they rocked, you could kill a ton of marines with them... the good old days...They're baaaaaaaaaaaack... (http://eu.starcraft2.com/features/protoss/index.xml?tab=zealot)Zealots from starcraft. It is the perfection of RTS, 10 years old and still the best ever made.

Go buy it NOW. Theres no excuse not to own it!Well, there is if you expect a rich online experience. In my experience, games invariably work like this:

0:00: Game starts.
0:01: All seems well.
0:02: OMGZERGRUSHKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE
0:02: Tempest has been defeated.
0:03: GGLOL

(Sometimes, they're polite enough to use a zealot rush in place of a zerg rush, or it happens even quicker than that. Do note that this is invariant -- it always follows this pattern, even on maps with lots of players, anti-rush landscapes, or what have you, regardless of what defenses I set up.)

The single-player, however, was a hell of a lot of fun.
Ra-Tiel
05-21-07, 03:58 PM In game-terms I could see it being a Soulknife Psiforged.
I beg to differ. :P

<off-topic>

Protoss are still living entities, not some sort of "thinking robots" or somesuch. Therefore, warforged are not the way to go. Considering their background, being an artificially advanced and enhanced race, they'd probably be aberrations by type. Although psionic talent runs strong with the protoss, only the most advanced and trained are able to manifest their own psionic shields or unleash the dreaded mind storms.

Therefore, I can imagine them having the "naturally psionic" racial trait, and even a limited form of telepathy (perhaps limited to other protoss only). Favorite class would most likely depend on tribe. Some would be artificer or psychic rogues (Khalai), while others would be fighters or psychic warriors (Templar), and again others would be psions or ardents (Judicator).

The "psiblades" would not be a class feature, but a psionic item. Notice that the SC manual says that the protoss used to enhance their latent psionic talents with focusing crystals, and that only this merging of psionics and technology allowed them to shield every warrior with energy shields. I assume the same would work for their melee weapons.
</off-topic>
InkBlot
05-21-07, 05:44 PM Protoss are still living entities, not some sort of "thinking robots" or somesuch.
Warforged are living entities, not some sort of "thinking robots" or somesuch.
Tempest Stormwind
05-21-07, 05:59 PM Okay, to put it another way: Protoss are 100% organic, not partially-organic composites of wood, stone, metal, crystal and alchemical reagents. The *rest* of his analysis is correct.

Of all D&D races, they're closest to the elan in terms of what they are (although certainly not in stats; they'd probably be Large and have racial HD at the very least, although quite likely a racial manifester level with those HD. The type of that ML would depend on caste). They're psionically-empowered, essentially immortal, organic beings.
Deekin
05-21-07, 06:32 PM Okay, to put it another way: Protoss are 100% organic, not partially-organic composites of wood, stone, metal, crystal and alchemical reagents. The *rest* of his analysis is correct.

Of all D&D races, they're closest to the elan in terms of what they are (although certainly not in stats; they'd probably be Large and have racial HD at the very least, although quite likely a racial manifester level with those HD. The type of that ML would depend on caste). They're psionically-empowered, essentially immortal, organic beings.

EG: Dark Templar w/o Armor

http://us.media.blizzard.com/starcraft2/images/artwork/ss16.jpg
Fabius Maximus
05-21-07, 06:42 PM Zealots from starcraft. It is the perfection of RTS, 10 years old and still the best ever made.

Go buy it NOW. Theres no excuse not to own it!

Yes, there is: I simply suck at RTS-games, and therefore don't like them.
Eled_the_Worm_Tamer
05-21-07, 07:22 PM And the best bit? Starcraft 2 is on its way.

The Folowing comic says it all
http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20070521&mode=classic
ElberethSilverleaf
05-21-07, 08:24 PM all the crystal malarky started with the crystal power scams of the '80s. Kinda like the "pyramid power" scams of the '70s.
Druid_of_the_storm
05-21-07, 08:42 PM Personally I think it's because of just how cool (or shiny) they seem to be.
Psionics was new and they needed something to draw out customers....so shiny rocks did the job...and in Star2 they've balanced the units....so no more 3 sec zerg rushes:D trust me i hated them too
Artector
05-21-07, 08:55 PM I can't wait for Starcraft 2... Why did you have to tell me!!!!????

/off topic
BadCatMan
05-22-07, 01:29 AM Tall, gaunt, knobbly, psionic... the Protoss look like the Gith. Maybe they're Githzerai?
Wrong
05-22-07, 11:14 AM Mechanically, I love psionics with the versatility power points and augmentations offer over Vancian spell slots, but one thing has always irked me; why do psionics in D&D revolve so much around crystals?

I know I can change the flavor so that crystals are not so prominent, but I'm curious why the default flavor revolves around crystals. Last I checked, no well-known fiction that includes psychics have crystals as major objects.Darkover series from Marion Zimmer Bradley (and co-authors later). To obtain other effects than telepathy and divination, the comyn have to focus their psychic energy through crystals.
Started in 1958.
Joni-san
05-22-07, 01:43 PM Haven't funny shaped rocks and crystals always been found magical or holy? I think this goes back further than the 20'th century.
Ra-Tiel
05-22-07, 01:50 PM Tall, gaunt, knobbly, psionic... the Protoss look like the Gith. Maybe they're Githzerai?
I don't think Githzerai or Githyanki are 3m tall, weight several hundred kilograms, and devour psionic energy instead of food for nourishment. ;)
Lina_Inverse
05-22-07, 03:40 PM 0:00: Game starts.
0:01: All seems well.
0:02: OMGZERGRUSHKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE
0:02: Tempest has been defeated.
0:03: GGLOL

This just teachs you an important lesson.
Don't play koreans.
Tempest Stormwind
05-22-07, 04:26 PM This just teachs you an important lesson.
Don't play koreans.

On Starcraft? ;)

(That said, I did say I preferred the single-player game.)
Red12
05-22-07, 06:35 PM I enjoyed starcraft as a game, but the nigh-blatant rip-off of warhammer 40k always bothered me.

It's not the protoss, its the eldar ;)

Regardless, I don't think real-life esoteria had much to do with the current incarnation of psionics/crystals. I dont recall earlier editions having much to do with them, and if any edition had drawn from traditional earth-psychics it was 2e.

Its more fan-boyism now.
Lina_Inverse
05-22-07, 06:47 PM I enjoyed starcraft as a game, but the nigh-blatant rip-off of warhammer 40k always bothered me.

Its the perfect RTS, not much else matters. Blizzard has never cared about innovation, or creativity, its why there so successful. Worthless qualities are worthless.
Eled_the_Worm_Tamer
05-22-07, 06:53 PM I enjoyed starcraft as a game, but the nigh-blatant rip-off of warhammer 40k always bothered me.

It's not the protoss, its the eldar ;)

Regardless, I don't think real-life esoteria had much to do with the current incarnation of psionics/crystals. I dont recall earlier editions having much to do with them, and if any edition had drawn from traditional earth-psychics it was 2e.

Its more fan-boyism now.

Actuly even back in second ed Psps could be stored in gems and even nonitelegent psionic creatures were tropicly atracted to jewls (The one that I can rember off the top of my head is Larval intilect devourers.)
Legdiwena
06-24-08, 05:17 PM A suggestion from out of left field for you

Warhammer 40k, has psykers who can use force weapons. Anyone care to guess what the core of most force weapons happens to be? A particular kind of psychically resonant crystal which makes it easier to focus psi-talent through to cause mind crushings attacks.

As I said...a seriously left field thought for you...and probably not correct (as in, it's more likely to share the same source as the D & D psionics crystal fetish, than be the source)

Actually, IIRC, the crystal was a receptacle for their soul.
sblaxman
06-25-08, 06:06 PM Is there anyone here who know Dark Sun well, can he tell us if crystals had some importance there in psionic? Because it always reminded me of this setting.

It's been a while, but from what I recall there were no "crystals" at all in darksun, so I am not sure where you are getting that from. They may have been added later when the "fetish" starting appearing... I can look through my stuff, but psionics was just psionics back in darksun...
Edymnion
06-25-08, 08:38 PM http://us.media.blizzard.com/starcraft2/images/artwork/ss12.jpg

These people are the reason for all the psionic crystals.Epic level Warforged Soulknives? :P
sblaxman
06-25-08, 11:24 PM Is there anyone here who know Dark Sun well, can he tell us if crystals had some importance there in psionic? Because it always reminded me of this setting.

Ok, it's not darksun at all... I just went through the whole dark sun box set, and the 2e compete psionist handbook, and couldn't find a single mention of a crystal in either one. The idea of "focus crystals" and the heavy influence of them on psionics came about well after Darksun or Psionics in general...

As to when is started... my guess is 3e, though I don't know where
Alleine
06-25-08, 11:38 PM I enjoyed starcraft as a game, but the nigh-blatant rip-off of warhammer 40k always bothered me.

Really? I've never played WH40K, but after reading Starship troopers and then playing SC, I would've sworn the terrans and Zerg were essentially rip-offs from that book.
Not that that made me play it any less :D
Ra-Tiel
06-26-08, 09:00 AM Epic level Warforged Soulknives? :P
Actually, no. ;) Protoss are non-construct living beings. While warforged are living in their own way, they are still composed of stone, metal, and wood, while Protoss are fully organic beings. Elans would be a much better approximation for Protoss (aberration type, naturally psionic, don't need to consume food) than warforged.

:P
Lycanthromancer
06-26-08, 09:58 AM And elan suddenly got cool for once!
Ra-Tiel
06-26-08, 01:04 PM And elan suddenly got cool for once!

http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/1651/motivator7434707wi0.jpg

:P
Slagger the Chuul
06-26-08, 06:29 PM Assuming you go with the idea of perfection of form behind the Protoss is basically equivalent to the Elan, what would be our closest equivalent to the perfection of essence described for the Zerg?

Thoon comes to mind first, but maybe there's something closer.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Climhazzard 05-19-07, 03:50 PM	Mechanically, I love psionics with the versatility power points and augmentations offer over Vancian spell slots, but one thing has always irked me; why do psionics in D&D revolve so much around crystals? I know I can change the flavor so that crystals are not so prominent, but I'm curious why the default flavor revolves around crystals. Last I checked, no well-known fiction that includes psychics have crystals as major objects.
Deekin 05-19-07, 04:00 PM	http://us.media.blizzard.com/starcraft2/images/artwork/ss12.jpg These people are the reason for all the psionic crystals.
Eled_the_Worm_Tamer 05-19-07, 04:06 PM	Actulay Crystals are of use in medatation and attaining mental focus in RL, just call in at any new age shop (Man I hated saying that) and ask for some pamflets on crystal therapy. And even before taht were used in such a manner. Many crystals have traditonal uses, Amathest for example aids sobriety.
The Ubbergeek 05-19-07, 04:40 PM	Real world esoterism, plus Dark Sun influence. Crystals have special proprieties....
InkBlot 05-19-07, 04:43 PM	This (http://www.crystalinks.com/crystals.html) is a webpage about crystals written by a woman named Crystal, who believes she is psychic. In particular, look at her page on Atlantean Crystals (http://www.crystalinks.com/atlanteancrystals.html) and Crystal Bowls (http://www.crystalinks.com/crystalbowls.html). It may have been Edgar Cayce (http://skepdic.com/cayce.html) (and if you know anything about psychics you should know that name) who first made crystals wildly popular as psychic whojamawhatsists. Anyway, the use of crystals as psychic power receptacles, mental focuses, et cetera, goes back a long time. Although the psionics system has plenty of basis in literature, psionics also has more basis in real world mysticism than most other aspects of D&D.
Climhazzard 05-19-07, 05:00 PM	Ah, so real-world esoterica is where the crystal-philia comes from? Thank you everyone. For some reason, I've always associated New Age psychic junk of crystals as being translated into some variation of magic, or just using crystals for remote viewing. Not freezing time, telekinesis, mind control, teleporting, or other psionic mainstays. Next questions: Does anyone else feel that default D&D psionics has TOO much crystals? Also, how hard would it be to adapt certain arcane prestige classes and feats (such as Loremaster and Obtain Familiar) for use by psionic characters?
Tempest Stormwind 05-19-07, 05:05 PM	Everything crystal-themed can be completely replaced in psionics. Virtually all of it is fluff. The only things that aren't are the psicrystal's hardness and lack of basic movement skills (without Self-Propulsion) and the crystal weaponry (which is softer than steel, unless we're talking Deep Crystal which can channel psionic energy into a strike). For the record, the only crystals that show up in my psionic characters are incorporated into equipment. They serve no purpose mechanically whatsoever, although when the item's used they tend to glow or sparkle from within (It's easy to tell when a spellcaster's using a staff, for instance, so why should it be harder to tell if someone' using a psicrown?). As for some classes, I'd avoid it. Magic classes are almost never balanced -- anything with full casting is too good. This isn't the case with psions.
Sarrazon 05-19-07, 07:59 PM	These people are the reason for all the psionic crystals. Deekin, You are a GOD
BadCatMan 05-19-07, 08:15 PM	Crystals were also used by some medieval alchemists for having visions and stuff, as well as the old crystal ball of the fortune teller. Quite interestingly, much of D&D Psionics derives from real-world magic and mysticism, while much of D&D magic instead comes from a science-fiction writer.
Particle_Man 05-20-07, 12:51 AM	Though for magic items, D&D does have those Ioun Stones. Crystals that revolve around your head!
serow_#R 05-20-07, 01:18 AM	Mechanically, I love psionics with the versatility power points and augmentations offer over Vancian spell slots, but one thing has always irked me; why do psionics in D&D revolve so much around crystals? I know I can change the flavor so that crystals are not so prominent, but I'm curious why the default flavor revolves around crystals. Last I checked, no well-known fiction that includes psychics have crystals as major objects. I remove almost all crystal references in my game, coz it just isn't my idea of psi. :)
InkBlot 05-20-07, 02:51 AM	Does anyone else feel that default D&D psionics has TOO much crystals? Sometimes. Sometimes I want to play a character who's just has mystic powers. If the character has any crystals, their incorporated into other piece of equipment, and they're just gemstones (as opposed to faceted chunks of quartz). Other times, I want to play an exotic wierdo. The character will have all sorts of wierd devices, many of which are either completely made of huge faceted chunks of crystal, or heavily feature huge chunks of crystal.
Unholy_King 05-20-07, 11:59 AM	I thought I remember reading a quote from one of the people who wrote the XPH and he said the psionics revolved around crystals to give it a unique feeling. Without the crystal fluff, psionics is almost indistinguishable from magic. I could be crazy though.
ferreon 05-20-07, 06:02 PM	A suggestion from out of left field for you Warhammer 40k, has psykers who can use force weapons. Anyone care to guess what the core of most force weapons happens to be? A particular kind of psychically resonant crystal which makes it easier to focus psi-talent through to cause mind crushings attacks. As I said...a seriously left field thought for you...and probably not correct (as in, it's more likely to share the same source as the D & D psionics crystal fetish, than be the source)
The Ubbergeek 05-20-07, 06:37 PM	Is there anyone here who know Dark Sun well, can he tell us if crystals had some importance there in psionic? Because it always reminded me of this setting.
TimelordSimone 05-20-07, 06:57 PM	A suggestion from out of left field for you Warhammer 40k, has psykers who can use force weapons. Anyone care to guess what the core of most force weapons happens to be? A particular kind of psychically resonant crystal which makes it easier to focus psi-talent through to cause mind crushings attacks. As I said...a seriously left field thought for you...and probably not correct (as in, it's more likely to share the same source as the D & D psionics crystal fetish, than be the source) Also (may be wrong, haven't played in ages) the Eldar use spirit stones to augment their psychic power. I believe. That, and so the God they created doesn't eat their souls...
Glak 05-20-07, 07:29 PM	I knew Dark Sun pretty well but I don't remember anything about crystals. Obsidian was very important but it was more tied in with magic.
Kresalak 05-20-07, 08:28 PM	Also (may be wrong, haven't played in ages) the Eldar use spirit stones to augment their psychic power. I believe. That, and so the God they created doesn't eat their souls... Khorne Berserkers sometimes stab people with crystals, if their axes break or something.
Lina_Inverse 05-21-07, 06:19 AM	These people are the reason for all the psionic crystals. That should be a good enough reason for anyone.
Fabius Maximus 05-21-07, 07:39 AM	That should be a good enough reason for anyone. Why? What are they?
Lycanthromancer 05-21-07, 08:12 AM	Why? What are they?They're absolutely awesome. And likely psiforged.
Terazul 05-21-07, 10:35 AM	They're absolutely awesome. And likely psiforged. Actually, they're the Protoss from Starcraft... But yeah, awesome.
Artector 05-21-07, 02:25 PM	Actually, they're the Protoss from Starcraft... But yeah, awesome. Its a Zealot to be specific... and they rocked, you could kill a ton of marines with them... the good old days... I get tired of the crystals occasionally, but they do give a very unique feel to DND psionics. And for some reason... its just seems to fit.
obrysii 05-21-07, 02:33 PM	Actually, they're the Protoss from Starcraft... But yeah, awesome. In game-terms I could see it being a Soulknife Psiforged.
Lina_Inverse 05-21-07, 02:48 PM	Why? What are they? Zealots from starcraft. It is the perfection of RTS, 10 years old and still the best ever made. Go buy it NOW. Theres no excuse not to own it!
Tempest Stormwind 05-21-07, 03:03 PM	Its a Zealot to be specific... and they rocked, you could kill a ton of marines with them... the good old days...They're baaaaaaaaaaaack... (http://eu.starcraft2.com/features/protoss/index.xml?tab=zealot)Zealots from starcraft. It is the perfection of RTS, 10 years old and still the best ever made. Go buy it NOW. Theres no excuse not to own it!Well, there is if you expect a rich online experience. In my experience, games invariably work like this: 0:00: Game starts. 0:01: All seems well. 0:02: OMGZERGRUSHKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE 0:02: Tempest has been defeated. 0:03: GGLOL (Sometimes, they're polite enough to use a zealot rush in place of a zerg rush, or it happens even quicker than that. Do note that this is invariant -- it always follows this pattern, even on maps with lots of players, anti-rush landscapes, or what have you, regardless of what defenses I set up.) The single-player, however, was a hell of a lot of fun.
Ra-Tiel 05-21-07, 03:58 PM	In game-terms I could see it being a Soulknife Psiforged. I beg to differ. :P <off-topic> Protoss are still living entities, not some sort of "thinking robots" or somesuch. Therefore, warforged are not the way to go. Considering their background, being an artificially advanced and enhanced race, they'd probably be aberrations by type. Although psionic talent runs strong with the protoss, only the most advanced and trained are able to manifest their own psionic shields or unleash the dreaded mind storms. Therefore, I can imagine them having the "naturally psionic" racial trait, and even a limited form of telepathy (perhaps limited to other protoss only). Favorite class would most likely depend on tribe. Some would be artificer or psychic rogues (Khalai), while others would be fighters or psychic warriors (Templar), and again others would be psions or ardents (Judicator). The "psiblades" would not be a class feature, but a psionic item. Notice that the SC manual says that the protoss used to enhance their latent psionic talents with focusing crystals, and that only this merging of psionics and technology allowed them to shield every warrior with energy shields. I assume the same would work for their melee weapons. </off-topic>
InkBlot 05-21-07, 05:44 PM	Protoss are still living entities, not some sort of "thinking robots" or somesuch. Warforged are living entities, not some sort of "thinking robots" or somesuch.
Tempest Stormwind 05-21-07, 05:59 PM	Okay, to put it another way: Protoss are 100% organic, not partially-organic composites of wood, stone, metal, crystal and alchemical reagents. The rest of his analysis is correct. Of all D&D races, they're closest to the elan in terms of what they are (although certainly not in stats; they'd probably be Large and have racial HD at the very least, although quite likely a racial manifester level with those HD. The type of that ML would depend on caste). They're psionically-empowered, essentially immortal, organic beings.
Deekin 05-21-07, 06:32 PM	Okay, to put it another way: Protoss are 100% organic, not partially-organic composites of wood, stone, metal, crystal and alchemical reagents. The rest of his analysis is correct. Of all D&D races, they're closest to the elan in terms of what they are (although certainly not in stats; they'd probably be Large and have racial HD at the very least, although quite likely a racial manifester level with those HD. The type of that ML would depend on caste). They're psionically-empowered, essentially immortal, organic beings. EG: Dark Templar w/o Armor http://us.media.blizzard.com/starcraft2/images/artwork/ss16.jpg
Fabius Maximus 05-21-07, 06:42 PM	Zealots from starcraft. It is the perfection of RTS, 10 years old and still the best ever made. Go buy it NOW. Theres no excuse not to own it! Yes, there is: I simply suck at RTS-games, and therefore don't like them.
Eled_the_Worm_Tamer 05-21-07, 07:22 PM	And the best bit? Starcraft 2 is on its way. The Folowing comic says it all http://ars.userfriendly.org/cartoons/?id=20070521&mode=classic
ElberethSilverleaf 05-21-07, 08:24 PM	all the crystal malarky started with the crystal power scams of the '80s. Kinda like the "pyramid power" scams of the '70s.
Druid_of_the_storm 05-21-07, 08:42 PM	Personally I think it's because of just how cool (or shiny) they seem to be. Psionics was new and they needed something to draw out customers....so shiny rocks did the job...and in Star2 they've balanced the units....so no more 3 sec zerg rushes:D trust me i hated them too
Artector 05-21-07, 08:55 PM	I can't wait for Starcraft 2... Why did you have to tell me!!!!???? /off topic
BadCatMan 05-22-07, 01:29 AM	Tall, gaunt, knobbly, psionic... the Protoss look like the Gith. Maybe they're Githzerai?
Wrong 05-22-07, 11:14 AM	Mechanically, I love psionics with the versatility power points and augmentations offer over Vancian spell slots, but one thing has always irked me; why do psionics in D&D revolve so much around crystals? I know I can change the flavor so that crystals are not so prominent, but I'm curious why the default flavor revolves around crystals. Last I checked, no well-known fiction that includes psychics have crystals as major objects.Darkover series from Marion Zimmer Bradley (and co-authors later). To obtain other effects than telepathy and divination, the comyn have to focus their psychic energy through crystals. Started in 1958.
Joni-san 05-22-07, 01:43 PM	Haven't funny shaped rocks and crystals always been found magical or holy? I think this goes back further than the 20'th century.
Ra-Tiel 05-22-07, 01:50 PM	Tall, gaunt, knobbly, psionic... the Protoss look like the Gith. Maybe they're Githzerai? I don't think Githzerai or Githyanki are 3m tall, weight several hundred kilograms, and devour psionic energy instead of food for nourishment. ;)
Lina_Inverse 05-22-07, 03:40 PM	0:00: Game starts. 0:01: All seems well. 0:02: OMGZERGRUSHKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKEKE 0:02: Tempest has been defeated. 0:03: GGLOL This just teachs you an important lesson. Don't play koreans.
Tempest Stormwind 05-22-07, 04:26 PM	This just teachs you an important lesson. Don't play koreans. On Starcraft? ;) (That said, I did say I preferred the single-player game.)
Red12 05-22-07, 06:35 PM	I enjoyed starcraft as a game, but the nigh-blatant rip-off of warhammer 40k always bothered me. It's not the protoss, its the eldar ;) Regardless, I don't think real-life esoteria had much to do with the current incarnation of psionics/crystals. I dont recall earlier editions having much to do with them, and if any edition had drawn from traditional earth-psychics it was 2e. Its more fan-boyism now.
Lina_Inverse 05-22-07, 06:47 PM	I enjoyed starcraft as a game, but the nigh-blatant rip-off of warhammer 40k always bothered me. Its the perfect RTS, not much else matters. Blizzard has never cared about innovation, or creativity, its why there so successful. Worthless qualities are worthless.
Eled_the_Worm_Tamer 05-22-07, 06:53 PM	I enjoyed starcraft as a game, but the nigh-blatant rip-off of warhammer 40k always bothered me. It's not the protoss, its the eldar ;) Regardless, I don't think real-life esoteria had much to do with the current incarnation of psionics/crystals. I dont recall earlier editions having much to do with them, and if any edition had drawn from traditional earth-psychics it was 2e. Its more fan-boyism now. Actuly even back in second ed Psps could be stored in gems and even nonitelegent psionic creatures were tropicly atracted to jewls (The one that I can rember off the top of my head is Larval intilect devourers.)
Legdiwena 06-24-08, 05:17 PM	A suggestion from out of left field for you Warhammer 40k, has psykers who can use force weapons. Anyone care to guess what the core of most force weapons happens to be? A particular kind of psychically resonant crystal which makes it easier to focus psi-talent through to cause mind crushings attacks. As I said...a seriously left field thought for you...and probably not correct (as in, it's more likely to share the same source as the D & D psionics crystal fetish, than be the source) Actually, IIRC, the crystal was a receptacle for their soul.
sblaxman 06-25-08, 06:06 PM	Is there anyone here who know Dark Sun well, can he tell us if crystals had some importance there in psionic? Because it always reminded me of this setting. It's been a while, but from what I recall there were no "crystals" at all in darksun, so I am not sure where you are getting that from. They may have been added later when the "fetish" starting appearing... I can look through my stuff, but psionics was just psionics back in darksun...
Edymnion 06-25-08, 08:38 PM	http://us.media.blizzard.com/starcraft2/images/artwork/ss12.jpg These people are the reason for all the psionic crystals.Epic level Warforged Soulknives? :P
sblaxman 06-25-08, 11:24 PM	Is there anyone here who know Dark Sun well, can he tell us if crystals had some importance there in psionic? Because it always reminded me of this setting. Ok, it's not darksun at all... I just went through the whole dark sun box set, and the 2e compete psionist handbook, and couldn't find a single mention of a crystal in either one. The idea of "focus crystals" and the heavy influence of them on psionics came about well after Darksun or Psionics in general... As to when is started... my guess is 3e, though I don't know where
Alleine 06-25-08, 11:38 PM	I enjoyed starcraft as a game, but the nigh-blatant rip-off of warhammer 40k always bothered me. Really? I've never played WH40K, but after reading Starship troopers and then playing SC, I would've sworn the terrans and Zerg were essentially rip-offs from that book. Not that that made me play it any less :D
Ra-Tiel 06-26-08, 09:00 AM	Epic level Warforged Soulknives? :P Actually, no. ;) Protoss are non-construct living beings. While warforged are living in their own way, they are still composed of stone, metal, and wood, while Protoss are fully organic beings. Elans would be a much better approximation for Protoss (aberration type, naturally psionic, don't need to consume food) than warforged. :P
Lycanthromancer 06-26-08, 09:58 AM	And elan suddenly got cool for once!
Ra-Tiel 06-26-08, 01:04 PM	And elan suddenly got cool for once! http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/1651/motivator7434707wi0.jpg :P
Slagger the Chuul 06-26-08, 06:29 PM	Assuming you go with the idea of perfection of form behind the Protoss is basically equivalent to the Elan, what would be our closest equivalent to the perfection of essence described for the Zerg? Thoon comes to mind first, but maybe there's something closer.