Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Water_To_Fire 07-30-07, 09:25 PM	As the title says. Which is your favorite, mechanically or thematically? Which ones are good for certain races? Personally, I can't decide which I want to play next, and so I want to here your collective opinion on the matter.
TheKeyofE 07-30-07, 10:15 PM	Thematically and mechanically, Telepathy is far and away my favorite. Thematically, it's my favorite because when I was a kid, the number one power I wanted if I was to suddenly become a superhero was telepathy. The funny thing here, though, is that the number two superhero power I wanted was teleportation, but the Psychoportation discipline doesn't really interest me. Mechanically, Telepathy has a lot of neat powers. Always useful powers like schism and dominate, and not always useful but still very cool powers like false sensory input, crisis of breath, and crisis of life. My second favorite is probably Psychokinesis. I've made several blasters and really enjoy playing them, even though blasting is not the most efficient use of PP. My least favorite is Metacreativity. Astral Construct is awesome, but that's the ONLY thing on the Shaper list that interests me at all, and I'd much rather spend a feat on expanded knowledge. As for race/discipline combinations, I don't really know, since I usually play humans.
BlaineTog 07-30-07, 10:34 PM	My favorite's metacreativity, actually. Minor Creation for 1 PP? Crystal Shard? Crystalize? Ectoplasmic Cocoon? And, to top it all off, Astral Contruct? Yes, Molly! Clairsentience and Telepathy are also pretty cool. I'm lukewarm with the others, but I really don't like a lot of the Psychometabolism powers.
Tempest Stormwind 07-30-07, 10:44 PM	My favorite's metacreativity, actually. Minor Creation for 1 PP? Crystal Shard? Crystalize? Ectoplasmic Cocoon? And, to top it all off, Astral Contruct? Yes, Molly! Clairsentience and Telepathy are also pretty cool. I'm lukewarm with the others, but I really don't like a lot of the Psychometabolism powers. This is me in a nutshell as well. I also have major flavor reasons to love metacreativity, but I'll spare you them here, as I'm liable to go on for ages.
Ryuu_Tenshi 07-30-07, 11:05 PM	This is me in a nutshell as well. I also have major flavor reasons to love metacreativity, but I'll spare you them here, as I'm liable to go on for ages. I'm going to toss my hat in here for metacreativity. It's just so much fun. And it isn't all about Astral Construct, either: Minor Creation and Fabricate open all sorts of crazy doors, as does the aforementioned Crystal Shard and Ectoplasmic Cocoon. Weaving the dream to the real <3 (and ye gods, look, I posted!)
DisposableHero_ 07-30-07, 11:06 PM	Psychoportation, particularly in the hands of PsyWars and Gish. This love of things that teleport came out in writing Untapped Potential in Rending Rift, Dueling Ground, and the Maverick Voidshaper. Bend Time is easily my all time favorite class feature, although the Elocator's Dimension Spring Attack is a close second (and would be number one if it were written to work with more than the one class feature before it)
Tempest Stormwind 07-30-07, 11:10 PM	Psychoportation, particularly in the hands of PsyWars and Gish. This love of things that teleport came out in writing Untapped Potential in Rending Rift, Dueling Ground, and the Maverick Voidshaper. Bend Time is easily my all time favorite class feature, although the Elocator's Dimension Spring Attack is a close second (and would be number one if it were written to work with more than the one class feature before it) DH's ideas on psychoportation while writing UTP actually rubbed off on me. I *want* psychoportation to be distinctive and unique and interesting. At the moment, aside from effects like Time Hop, it really doesn't stand out except as "the teleports". I'm going to toss my hat in here for metacreativity. It's just so much fun. And it isn't all about Astral Construct, either: Minor Creation and Fabricate open all sorts of crazy doors, as does the aforementioned Crystal Shard and Ectoplasmic Cocoon. Weaving the dream to the real <3 Amen, sister. (DH is the DM in the game I play a shaper in; I believe he will attest that although I use astral construct more often than most of my other powers, it's ectoplasmic cocoon I've caused the most havoc with.) (and ye gods, look, I posted!) Yes, you did! Welcome back.
Ryuu_Tenshi 07-30-07, 11:11 PM	Psychoportation, particularly in the hands of PsyWars and Gish. This love of things that teleport came out in writing Untapped Potential in Rending Rift, Dueling Ground, and the Maverick Voidshaper. Bend Time is easily my all time favorite class feature, although the Elocator's Dimension Spring Attack is a close second (and would be number one if it were written to work with more than the one class feature before it) I will actually say that psychoportation might be second, mostly because of the Elocator. It's generally useful and I love the idea of "bamphing" around a battlefield. :D I'm not sure I have a least favourite... if I had to pick one it'd probably be psychokinesis. Basically you just blow stuff up... better. It's just not as interesting to me as some of the other disciplines. Not to say it can't be good in the right place, kinetecists make fantastic nukers, but it's not interesting.
InkBlot 07-31-07, 12:57 AM	Clairsentience and Metacreativity are my favorites, in that order. I just love the idea of a psychic detective, using powers like sensitivity to psychic impressions and object reading to solve mysteries. Seers also set off my cyberpunk gland, with their ability to wage information warfare, but to fully flesh out that idea requires taking a couple Telepath powers with Expanded Knowledge. Metacreativity, for all the reasons that Tempest, Ryuu Tenshi, and Blaine Tog mentioned. Psychoportation deserves an honorable mention. I like the idea of being able to go anywhere. I like the idea of unbound exploration, but this is also one of the reasons I love Clairsentience. A Nomad is free to explore the world by physically traveling there, while a Seer is free to explore the world by mentally traveling there.
Enchanter_Tom 07-31-07, 02:00 AM	Clairsentience.
Arco Versipellis 07-31-07, 03:13 AM	I asolutely love psychoportation. I have most likely played more nomads than all other psionic classes combined (excluding NPCs of course). I think that tere areseal useful powers he challenge is just in executing them. Dimensoin Swap is good for suckering PCs into engaging my bruisers, while I love using evade attack to escape mlee combat. Also, fgh is useful as well. Deceleration is one of my group's mot commonly used firstlevel powers, third after force screen and vigor. I hardly ever build a psionic characte without a psychoportan power. Clairsentience come in second. I once played a gestalt bard|seerer who was very secretive aout his psionic powers. It was amazing what he could learn through a coin and object reading, only to replace that coin with another with listening coin cast on it. Sensitivity to psychic impressions is very cool. Fate of One is a power I have always wanted to use but never have.
Slagger the Chuul 07-31-07, 05:01 AM	I'm torn between Clairsentience, with the ability to see and know, and Psychoportation, for mastery of time and space. The mind and body unrestrained, free to roam at will. I also have a particular liking for the control powers of Psychokinesis. From a game point of view, control light has to be one of the best and cheapest powers a character can have, especially if you've got darkvision and your enemies don't. Its perception control ties in nicely with clairsentience in that respect. But I don't think there's any discipline which doesn't have at least something I like.
Callix 07-31-07, 06:16 AM	No love for psychometabolism? No, not by a long shot. I love the Shaper. Everyone's mind shapes their own reality. My mind shapes everyone else's reality too :D Crunchwise, Minor Creation rocks the exploring. You can never have too much rope. Shapers never have too little either. Poles, planks and kindling are just a few of the oh-so-practical objects Minor Creation can produce for only 1pp. And, of course, Astral Construct is so uber they gave it its own feat.
Zarreth_Nessad 07-31-07, 08:04 AM	First psionic character I ever played was a Nomad who went into Elocator. Fun stuff. Died while saving several party members, but the party was killed off one by one in the end. Also like the Egoist.. played one that became the party's main fighting character (mostly newbies in the party, one ninja, two experts, lots of custom non-magic alchemy rules). Long term, love the Telepath the best. If for no other reason than the level 9 power "Psychic Chirurgery".. A level 17 telepath basically becomes the reverse of the Erudite for every other Psion out there, and can get the powers from them as well if they are able to manifest level 9 powers (give them Psychic Chirurgery, they give you [insert any power they know here]). Other than that, and being a Psion Telepath being the only RAW way to get that power other than someone else using it on you to give it to you (good luck getting that out of your DM), all the other telepathy stuff is normally useful as well (unless your DM throws an insane proportion of Immune to Mind-Affecting enemies, which at that level isn't out of the question). Even if he does, there's still all the minions.
Khael 07-31-07, 08:42 AM	No love for psychometabolism? No, not by a long shot. I love the Shaper. Everyone's mind shapes their own reality. My mind shapes everyone else's reality too :D And my telepath shapes your Shaper's mind. Telepath followed by shaper are my favourites - Not to say I dislike the others but none of them seem to boost more than few specialised powers I'd want generally, that make thaking the discipline worth it. While telepaths can just use everyone else to do the jobs they can't, and shapers... Astral constructs and creation... Too much like two of the most impressive story magics I've read, and useful in-game to pass up.
Tealgorthian 07-31-07, 02:03 PM	My favorite's metacreativity, actually. Minor Creation for 1 PP? Crystal Shard? Crystalize? Ectoplasmic Cocoon? And, to top it all off, Astral Contruct? Yes, Molly! Clairsentience and Telepathy are also pretty cool. I'm lukewarm with the others, but I really don't like a lot of the Psychometabolism powers. QTF. I love Quintessence and Genesis.
InkBlot 07-31-07, 02:46 PM	Kineticists are my least favorite kind of Psion, but I do like psychokinesis. The problem is that there are already plenty of cool psychokinesis powers on the psion/wilder list. Energy push and stun, TK thrust/force/maneuver, energy retort, energy wall, energy conversion, and plenty of generic "energy damage in an area" powers are all available to non-kineticists. But I find it hard to imagine a psionic character who can't move/burn things with his mind. Even a psychic detective or empathic healer should know telekinetic thrust or force. And energy wall is so freaking useful (who needs keys when you can vibrate a door apart with a sonic energy wall). Kineticists need to have more unique and interesting low level powers. They don't get anything really cool until they get 6th level powers. If they had a better version of far hand at 1st level (like telepaths get a better version of missive at 1st level), that would go a long way towards improving them. Making control air not suck at low low levels would also help, but it would be easier to simply move one or two of the more unique energy powers (energy stun, push, retort, etc) would be easier.
Ryuu_Tenshi 07-31-07, 07:22 PM	Kineticists are my least favorite kind of Psion, but I do like psychokinesis. The problem is that there are already plenty of cool psychokinesis powers on the psion/wilder list. Energy push and stun, TK thrust/force/maneuver, energy retort, energy wall, energy conversion, and plenty of generic "energy damage in an area" powers are all available to non-kineticists. But I find it hard to imagine a psionic character who can't move/burn things with his mind. Even a psychic detective or empathic healer should know telekinetic thrust or force. And energy wall is so freaking useful (who needs keys when you can vibrate a door apart with a sonic energy wall). Kineticists need to have more unique and interesting low level powers. They don't get anything really cool until they get 6th level powers. If they had a better version of far hand at 1st level (like telepaths get a better version of missive at 1st level), that would go a long way towards improving them. Making control air not suck at low low levels would also help, but it would be easier to simply move one or two of the more unique energy powers (energy stun, push, retort, etc) would be easier. Agreed. The issue is that there's so many "just fine" psychokinesis powers on the general list... my Shaper had loads of fun with Energy Wall (best one was when he trapped a bunch of idiot mooks in one and they all died within two rounds. Low level mooks, but at the time the entire party thought he was a bard. )
heridfel 07-31-07, 09:29 PM	It's funny - I really want to like psychoportation. My character concepts always begin as nomads, because I like the idea of planar travel. But... astral caravan is a joke, and the next power that can cross planes (at least in the core) is plane shift, which anyone can get. An elocator gets a much better version of teleport (and plane shift, for that matter), and eventually, anyone can get greater teleport. Psionic fly is a level higher than non-psionic fly, and the same goes for overland flight (which anyone can get). Meanwhile, the egoist also appeals to me, and it has the powers to back itself up. While I love time hop, I love animal affinity, hustle, and metamorphosis even more. Since I don't take Metamorphic Transfer, I don't usually get the stink-eye for using it. That class ability from Mind's Eye to get minor shape change instead of the psion bonus feat at first level makes it even cooler. (Incidentally, should that feature also grant the egoist the shapechanger subtype? It didn't say so, but I'd assume that it should... I guess I'm going RAI rather than RAW.)
DisposableHero_ 07-31-07, 09:49 PM	(DH is the DM in the game I play a shaper in; I believe he will attest that although I use astral construct more often than most of my other powers, it's ectoplasmic cocoon I've caused the most havoc with.)Actually, the most absurd and outlandish stunt she managed to be part of was the minor creation minor knockout poison that totally ganked my 9th level Reidra ambassador telepath. But yes, I have had to account very specifically for Ectoplasmic Cocoon when I want a fight to last a while :P
Psikerlord 07-31-07, 10:53 PM	I vote for telepath. Nice powers in and out of combat, and great skill set. By spending a feat or two on some other discipline only powers (eg: astral construct, energy missile or metamorphosis), you still have great options for foes immune to mind-based effects.
Thomar_of_Uointer 08-01-07, 12:56 AM	Geh... I can't decide! I'm going to have to go with psychometabolism. As a psion, I'll take kineticist any day (tornado blast FTW!) but as a psychic warrior psychometabolism is where it's at. Claws of the beast, just like astral construct, can have an entire character built around it. Vigor is the buff that keeps on giving, and when you top it off with form of doom and round out your power selection with Expanded Knowledge (dispel psionics and time hop), you have a character who will stay alive and effective in any situation until his power points run out (at which point, any unoptimized character would have died, which is why I think the whole psychic warrior endurance deal is a load of crock).
NoldorForce 08-01-07, 01:19 AM	Psychometabolism. For those days when you'd like to buff yourself to hell and start smashing. Or for healing better than any other psion. Or warping yourself into a literal omnitool. My favorite. Metacreativity isn't that far behind. Primarily because it works in similar ways, except for the fact that you're keeping the wacky out of your body rather than inflicting it upon yourself.
kyeudo 08-01-07, 01:21 AM	I personaly love the idea Metacreativity, but I haven't made it to high level play yet, so I have no experience with the upper level powers, and Astral Constructs arnt as useful or as easily sculpted into cool forms at lower levels. I like the idea behind Psychometabolism, especialy when playing a changeling, but I have never been impressed with any of the Psion psychometabolism powers out there, beyond Vigor.
Ryuu_Tenshi 08-01-07, 11:20 AM	I personaly love the idea Metacreativity, but I haven't made it to high level play yet, so I have no experience with the upper level powers, and Astral Constructs arnt as useful or as easily sculpted into cool forms at lower levels. You can do some pretty fun things with it from about 5th level up. And remember, the stunts you can pull with Minor Creation at those levels shouldn't be overlooked (particularly in terms of general utility. There's a chasm over there? Use your Craft skill + Psi Minor Creation. Instant bridge!)
Oregwath 08-01-07, 11:36 AM	Well, Telepathy was always my favorite discipline, but I decided to mix it up this game. I am playing a Kinetisist who is mildly phobic about telepathy powers. His trainer was a telepath and wasn't very kind to him when he made a mistake.... Due to this reversal, Control Object has become my favorite power EVAH! I use it more often then the energy powers. Imagine the BBEG's face when the rug he is standing on jerks out from under his feet and tries to strangle him, good times, goooood times. Immune to all energy and a PR of 38? Well, lets see if you are immune to ..... THAT DESK! However, with max ranks in Knowledge: (Arch and Eng) and Profession: (Demolitions), those energy powers have come in extremely handy. :cool:
InkBlot 08-01-07, 01:12 PM	You can do some pretty fun things with it from about 5th level up. And remember, the stunts you can pull with Minor Creation at those levels shouldn't be overlooked (particularly in terms of general utility. There's a chasm over there? Use your Craft skill + Psi Minor Creation. Instant bridge!) If only it didn't have such a long manifesting time. Being able to just clap (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOpmV1Ua4RE) your hands and have a bridge pop up (as a standard action) would be great.
Lycanthromancer 08-01-07, 01:21 PM	If only it didn't have such a long manifesting time. Being able to just clap (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOpmV1Ua4RE) your hands and have a bridge pop up (as a standard action) would be great.Heh. *Snort* Hehehehe *Mph* Heeheeheeheehee Hahahahahahahah Muahahahahahaha! (I've got a good thing going on here in my revamp - which, unfortunately, is still undergoing some serious tinkering.)
InkBlot 08-01-07, 03:37 PM	A 2 point augment for minor creation to shorten the manifesting time to a standard action, should be fine. A while ago I made a thread on that very topic, and that was the idea that most people agreed to. Anyway, it's a houserule no matter which way you slice it.
Jhaelen 08-01-07, 04:29 PM	Traditionally psionics are all about controlling minds, bodies and objects. So thematically, I prefer telepathy, psychometabolism, and psychokinesis. In that regard I like metacreativity least; there's almost nothing about it that makes me think 'psionic'. I also dislike psychokinesis because of all those 'energy' powers. Clairsentience and psychoportation are okay but a bit too limited in their applicability to make for a good chosen discipline. Mechanically it's pretty much the reverse order: Metacreativity and Psychokinesis are generally the most effective.
Omen_of_Peace 08-01-07, 07:42 PM	I dislike the Personal-only nature of the Psychometabolism (I suppose I should try playing a Sangehirn sometimes) ; also, my group generally doesn't use Metamorphosis. I'm not big on blasting either, but the Control X powers of psychokinesis are fun. I would love to love Psychoportation, but the discipline powers are a bit dull. I like Clairsentience, but it's not very effective combat-wise. In the end, I really like Telepaths (amazing flavor), and even more so, Shapers, who are efficient in almost all situations.
RadicalTaoist 08-01-07, 09:09 PM	I just love the idea of a psychic detective, using powers like sensitivity to psychic impressions and object reading to solve mysteries. Seers also set off my cyberpunk gland, with their ability to wage information warfare, but to fully flesh out that idea requires taking a couple Telepath powers with Expanded Knowledge. You and me both, brother. *closes eyes and concentrates* I foresee....that the revelation of Clairsentience being my favorite discipline will not surprise my fellow UTP authors one bit. Seriously, I am a total private eye pulp fiction junkie. And everyone should admit they want to play Horatio Caine every now and then.
DisposableHero_ 08-01-07, 09:29 PM	You and me both, brother. *closes eyes and concentrates* I foresee....that the revelation of Clairsentience being my favorite discipline will not surprise my fellow UTP authors one bit.This statement really doesn't require a seer to figure out.
Tempest Stormwind 08-01-07, 09:49 PM	This statement really doesn't require a seer to figure out. Just several long sessions of exposition involving you scrambling to make up user history lists for every single sword in the game thanks to those damn object reading gloves, right? ;) UTP tangent story: Back during the *earliest* stages of development -- namely, JUST after RT, Bacris, and I had hooked up -- we started laying out content ideas. When we got to prestige classes, RT wasn't around, but I pitched the basic premise (both fluff and metagame) that would eventually turn into the Sighted Seeker. When RT returned, he took one look at what we had... and, well, the reaction was akin to what happened in Korea when Starcraft 2 was announced. No, I'm not joking.
kyeudo 08-01-07, 09:54 PM	Just several long sessions of exposition involving you scrambling to make up user history lists for every single sword in the game thanks to those damn object reading gloves, right? ;) UTP tangent story: Back during the *earliest* stages of development -- namely, JUST after RT, Bacris, and I had hooked up -- we started laying out content ideas. When we got to prestige classes, RT wasn't around, but I pitched the basic premise (both fluff and metagame) that would eventually turn into the Sighted Seeker. When RT returned, he took one look at what we had... and, well, the reaction was akin to what happened in Korea when Starcraft 2 was announced. No, I'm not joking. Sorry to have to ask, but what happened when they announced Starcraft 2? I don't read too many news stories.
Thomar_of_Uointer 08-01-07, 10:05 PM	Sorry to have to ask, but what happened when they announced Starcraft 2? I don't read too many news stories. http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/comic.php?d=20070521
DisposableHero_ 08-01-07, 10:36 PM	Just several long sessions of exposition involving you scrambling to make up user history lists for every single sword in the game thanks to those damn object reading gloves, right? ;)Eventually I'm going to get spiteful about it and describe to him painfully slowly the long, detailed, go no where, completely irrelevant, utterly boring and mundane backstory to a weapon so enticingly magical that he'll have to object read it. We'll see if he can last more than an hour before trying to gouge his eyes out to make the hurting stop. My goal is to make the process so painfully boring that he never uses that power again.
Tealgorthian 08-01-07, 10:43 PM	Eventually I'm going to get spiteful about it and describe to him painfully slowly the long, detailed, go no where, completely irrelevant, utterly boring and mundane backstory to a weapon so enticingly magical that he'll have to object read it. We'll see if he can last more than an hour before trying to gouge his eyes out to make the hurting stop. My goal is to make the process so painfully boring that he never uses that power again. Do it in Robert Jordan style. He'll hang himself before it is all done.
TheKeyofE 08-01-07, 10:44 PM	Umm...isn't explaining your evil plan before you do it, kind of, you know, counterproductive, seeing as he can see your evil plan and totally turn it around to spite you? It's like in movies when the villain describes the complex inner workings of his doomsday machine to the captured hero, so when the hero escapes later he can destroy it.
Ryuu_Tenshi 08-01-07, 10:45 PM	Eventually I'm going to get spiteful about it and describe to him painfully slowly the long, detailed, go no where, completely irrelevant, utterly boring and mundane backstory to a weapon so enticingly magical that he'll have to object read it. We'll see if he can last more than an hour before trying to gouge his eyes out to make the hurting stop. My goal is to make the process so painfully boring that he never uses that power again. Is it odd that statements like these and the above make me really wish I played with you guys?
RadicalTaoist 08-01-07, 11:06 PM	Eventually I'm going to get spiteful about it and describe to him painfully slowly the long, detailed, go no where, completely irrelevant, utterly boring and mundane backstory to a weapon so enticingly magical that he'll have to object read it. We'll see if he can last more than an hour before trying to gouge his eyes out to make the hurting stop. My goal is to make the process so painfully boring that he never uses that power again. I foil you by paying a level 1 commoner 2 sp to use the gloves for me. Then I'll tell him to pass me back the useful bits (with Detect Lies to keep him honest, of course). To all outside parties: DH knows I want to speed up that part of the game and involve the rest of the party the plot as much as possible. We're just messing with each other. Do it in Robert Jordan style. He'll hang himself before it is all done. Oh no; DH is still civilized. Is it odd that statements like these and the above make me really wish I played with you guys? Not at all. The guy's a great DM.
Tempest Stormwind 08-01-07, 11:25 PM	Is it odd that statements like these and the above make me really wish I played with you guys? I wouldn't think it's all that odd. But then again, I'm not exactly one to talk. (Just today, I had my plan to play Extreme Bocce with my colleagues shot down because they didn't feel like chasing after a jack that had been launched via trebuchet.) RT: He could do worse. He could quite easily switch to Lehath's alias and deliver the information to the party as if you were relating it in real time... only to end with something like this (http://bash.org/?5775) while still in character.
Ryuu_Tenshi 08-01-07, 11:39 PM	... ok, I want to ask about this Extreme Bocce thing, but that's off topic. Only reason I'm posting here is because once again, Tempest, your PM inbox is full ;)
TheKeyofE 08-01-07, 11:49 PM	His box is always full. He keeps it that way on purpose.
Thot 08-02-07, 03:05 AM	Horatio caine FTW ! :D
CrimsonDeath 08-02-07, 04:07 AM	If only it didn't have such a long manifesting time. Being able to just clap (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOpmV1Ua4RE) your hands and have a bridge pop up (as a standard action) would be great. It's still a lot faster than going around, climbing down and back up the other side, having one character Fly over with the loose end of a rope and tie it off so everyone can climb across, or any number of other solutions I've been a party to in the past.
InkBlot 08-02-07, 03:45 PM	Minor Creation has a 1 minute manifesting time, and can only create 1 cubic foot of material per manifester level. How big a chasm are you imagining? Lets say your ML 6, because at ML 7 you could just fabricate a bridge instead (which is much faster and can make much larger things). So you have 6 cubic feet of plant material to work with. Each cubic foot gives you enough material to make a 48 foot bridge, built like a ladder with one-inch-thick rungs and rails. I doubt a 288 foot long ladder would hold much weight, but let's assume it does. A flying creature with a speed of 30 can fly 120 feet in a round, using the Run action. So it would take four rounds to fly over and tie the rope to something, then wait for about two minutes as the non-flyers climb over via the rope. About 23 rounds, or 2 1/3 minutes, all together. However, I realy don't think such a weak ladder would span 288 feet without snapping in two when somebody reaches the middle. So lets double the thickness of the rails, leaving us with a more realistic 172.8 foot long ladder-like bridge. It took a minute to build this bridge, and two rounds to cross it if you assume it's ladder-like construction doesn't force you to move at half speed, but doesn't allow you to run. If you assume that crossing the bridge safely requires moving at 1/2 speed, then it takes 4 rounds. Our flyer can make that in two rounds, another round to tie the rope. The non-flyers would take about 12 rounds to get across. 14 rounds, or one about 1 1/2 minutes. Our safest bridge-building assumptions also took 14 rounds to cross. As the spans get smaller, it takes less and less time to have someone fly a rope over and climb across, while making a bridge and walking across will never take less than 11 rounds.
Ryuu_Tenshi 08-02-07, 04:12 PM	Minor Creation has a 1 minute manifesting time, and can only create 1 cubic foot of material per manifester level. How big a chasm are you imagining? Lets say your ML 6, because at ML 7 you could just fabricate a bridge instead (which is much faster and can make much larger things). So you have 6 cubic feet of plant material to work with. Each cubic foot gives you enough material to make a 48 foot bridge, built like a ladder with one-inch-thick rungs and rails. I doubt a 288 foot long ladder would hold much weight, but let's assume it does. A flying creature with a speed of 30 can fly 120 feet in a round, using the Run action. So it would take four rounds to fly over and tie the rope to something, then wait for about two minutes as the non-flyers climb over via the rope. About 23 rounds, or 2 1/3 minutes, all together. However, I realy don't think such a weak ladder would span 288 feet without snapping in two when somebody reaches the middle. So lets double the thickness of the rails, leaving us with a more realistic 172.8 foot long ladder-like bridge. It took a minute to build this bridge, and two rounds to cross it if you assume it's ladder-like construction doesn't force you to move at half speed, but doesn't allow you to run. If you assume that crossing the bridge safely requires moving at 1/2 speed, then it takes 4 rounds. Our flyer can make that in two rounds, another round to tie the rope. The non-flyers would take about 12 rounds to get across. 14 rounds, or one about 1 1/2 minutes. Our safest bridge-building assumptions also took 14 rounds to cross. As the spans get smaller, it takes less and less time to have someone fly a rope over and climb across, while making a bridge and walking across will never take less than 11 rounds. Eh Even so. With a Shaper you don't have to buy the rope.
InkBlot 08-02-07, 04:26 PM	Power points cost a lot more than rope. But the easiest way to fly at low levels is to make a flying 1st level astral construct, which has the same pp cost as minor creation.
CrimsonDeath 08-02-07, 05:43 PM	Eventually I'm going to get spiteful about it and describe to him painfully slowly the long, detailed, go no where, completely irrelevant, utterly boring and mundane backstory to a weapon so enticingly magical that he'll have to object read it. We'll see if he can last more than an hour before trying to gouge his eyes out to make the hurting stop. My goal is to make the process so painfully boring that he never uses that power again. You could add a part, back when it was just a Masterwork weapon, when one guy found it in a crate, used it to kill five rats in a warehouse, and then sold it.
Ryuu_Tenshi 08-02-07, 11:36 PM	Power points cost a lot more than rope. But the easiest way to fly at low levels is to make a flying 1st level astral construct, which has the same pp cost as minor creation. Doesn't work. 1st level AC is a small creature.
Tempest Stormwind 08-02-07, 11:44 PM	Doesn't work. 1st level AC is a small creature. And at level 1 lasts only a round as opposed to an hour. At level 1, chasms are mean for pretty much everyone, with the best way of dealing with them involves flying familiars, scouting, and/or Feather Fall). It changes a bit at level 2 if you have a totemist, since they can blink short distances at that point, which speeds things up dramatically.
InkBlot 08-03-07, 01:00 AM	Doesn't work. 1st level AC is a small creature. I meant it could carry a rope. And I didn't mean "astral construct manifested at level one," I meant "astral construct manifested without augmenting it." Besides, even manifested at level one it can fly across a 30 foot chasm and tie the rope off before disappearing.
Grimmsfeld 08-03-07, 01:36 AM	Besides, even manifested at level one it can fly across a 30 foot chasm and tie the rope off before disappearing.Not to hop on the "Inkblot's wrong" bandwagon or anything, but that scenario assumes that a ML 1 astral construct has a fly speed of 30ft and using rope to tie a knot is a standard action.
BlaineTog 08-03-07, 01:45 AM	Power points cost a lot more than rope.But rope isn't dismissable. :devil:
InkBlot 08-03-07, 10:50 AM	Not to hop on the "Inkblot's wrong" bandwagon or anything, but that scenario assumes that a ML 1 astral construct has a fly speed of 30ft and using rope to tie a knot is a standard action. ying a knot, tying a special knot, or tying a rope around yourself one-handed is a full-round action that provokes an attack of opportunity. Fly (Ex): The astral construct has physical wings and a fly speed of 20 feet (average). OK, so an astral construct could fly 80 feet (run action) and tie off a rope at 2nd level. :rolleyes: My point was only that it is faster to have an astral construct help you across a gap by carrying a rope, than it is build a bridge with minor creation, at levels 2 through 6, if the gap is smaller than 170 feet. A 1st level AC manifested at ML 2 can help you across an 80 foot gap. At ML 3 it can help you across a 160 foot gap. It's faster, and it has practically the same cost, because rope is such a common piece of adventuring equipment. The ability to dismiss the minor creation bridge is of negligible, since you could just as easily cut or burn the rope. At gaps greater than 170 feet, minor creation comes out ahead. Starting at ML 7, you should have fabricate, which can do the job much faster than either minor creation or astral construct (although now the astral construct might be strong enough to carry you, it would have to make return trips for the rest of your party). Incidentally, you could also have dimension door at that level.
DisposableHero_ 08-03-07, 04:25 PM	OK, so an astral construct could fly 80 feet (run action) and tie off a rope at 2nd level. :rolleyes:Overchannel will prove your previous point about 1st level
Thomar_of_Uointer 08-04-07, 08:47 PM	Doesn't work. 1st level AC is a small creature. Yeah, but it can still carry 49.5 lbs. If you're a gnome or halfling shaper with little equipment, it's not a problem. You can also compress yourself right after manifesting the construct to reduce your weight. Flying creatures/mounts can fly as long as they're not burdened, and there are no restrictions on the size of mounts.
Novem 08-04-07, 10:31 PM	Metacreativity. Making things, just with your mind- and these things move, and attack, etc., and the idea of Genesis is just so much fun.
Reyemile 08-06-07, 02:13 AM	Personally, I'm annoyed at D20's definition of Psychoportation. Psychoportation is the manipulation of space and time to cause objects to move. Just moving objects with your mind is Psychokinesis. Just because Psionic Flight, Psionic Levitate, and Skate cause you to move, doesn't mean that they are Psychoportation rather than Telekinesis.
CrimsonDeath 08-06-07, 02:38 AM	Flying creatures/mounts can fly as long as they're not burdened, and there are no restrictions on the size of mounts. Pretty sure a mount has to be at least one size larger than the rider. I'm not sure there's a maximum size, but I believe it's frowned upon to have a mount more than two sizes larger than you. So, yeah, a Compressed Gnome could ride a Small Astral Construct.
InkBlot 08-06-07, 02:41 AM	Personally, I'm annoyed at D20's definition of Psychoportation. Psychoportation is the manipulation of space and time to cause objects to move. Just moving objects with your mind is Psychokinesis. Just because Psionic Flight, Psionic Levitate, and Skate cause you to move, doesn't mean that they are Psychoportation rather than Telekinesis. You could fly by pushing yourself off of the air with your mind, or you could fly by warping space around you with your mind. The author of the XPH didn't want to complicate things by having another flight power for each method, or specifiying that the power psionic flight coudl be learned as either psychoportation or psychokinesis, so he just picked the one that seemed more approrpriate. And I agree with is choice, because Nomads need something special to keep them relevant.
Water_To_Fire 08-08-07, 10:32 PM	Okay, I've decided on playing a Shaper. The next question is, what race? So far I've narrowed it down to four choices, unless I'm forgetting some key race. They are: Human, Kalashtar, Warforged, or Changeling. So far I'm leaning toward either Kalashtar or Changeling. Obviously the Kalashtar would be better mechanically, but I really like the idea of a Changeling Shaper con artist. Create some platinum or diamond with Psionic Minor Creation, and sell them quickly with bluff. Then run away with your gold, with a new face on. So basically, what do you guys think?
Tempest Stormwind 08-08-07, 11:03 PM	Okay, I've decided on playing a Shaper. The next question is, what race? So far I've narrowed it down to four choices, unless I'm forgetting some key race. They are: Human, Kalashtar, Warforged, or Changeling. So far I'm leaning toward either Kalashtar or Changeling. Obviously the Kalashtar would be better mechanically, but I really like the idea of a Changeling Shaper con artist. Create some platinum or diamond with Psionic Minor Creation, and sell them quickly with bluff. Then run away with your gold, with a new face on. So basically, what do you guys think? I think that you should read the powers a bit better. You can't make metal with psionic minor creation. There are, however, endless other uses (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=898763) for that power.
Water_To_Fire 08-08-07, 11:28 PM	Oh. Yeah, I guess I forgot that....I guess there's always Psionic Major Creation for higher levels. Never mind that part of the post...
TheAnthroDM 08-09-07, 01:00 AM	I like them all equally, it just depends on my character concept. :D
CrimsonDeath 08-09-07, 04:10 AM	I think that you should read the powers a bit better. You can't make metal with psionic minor creation. There are, however, endless other uses (http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=898763) for that power. But don't make any wooden nickels.
Lycanthromancer 08-10-07, 01:25 PM	Heh. I finished making a changeling shaper con-artist that focused on misdirection and telepathy powers to be the infiltrator of the group. I re-flavored some of the Illithid Heritage feats as Greater Doppelganger Heritage, got psionic charm and read thoughts from them (with psionic dominate coming later), then I boosted my Bluff skill through the roof with Charisma, ranks, and several of my powers (notice how several powers give unnamed bonuses to interaction checks? Woo!). I'm going to use my Bluff skill along with my astral constructs and psionic minor creation to do some really off-the-wall-but-still-doable stuff, such as using my changeling abilities to take the role of slavemaster while sneaking my friends into the enemy stronghold in a group of 'slaves' consisting mainly of astral constructs (with that feat in Hyperconscious that extends their duration to 10 minutes), and so on. This is going to be so. much. fun. ...If I ever actually get to play in that game.