Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Strudel_Lumpycakes 11-06-07, 11:15 PM	Yeah, so I was looking through the candlekeep list of races, and stumbled upon a race called the Xvarts. Blue goblin-things from what I've heard. The stats are roughly the same as a Kobold. Nothing special. But then I see the the LA: -2. WHAT!?!?!?!?:eek: Does anyone here have Dragon issue 339 (page 64)? Can you confirm this for me? Is there something that I missed that could possibly explain this insane level adjustment? Thanks in advance.
Captain_Kobold 11-06-07, 11:51 PM	Having looked up in the Dragon Magazine in question, the Xvart has a listed LA of +0. The only place I can see that could possibly have been mistaken for -2, is the challenge rating of a Xvart with levels in NPC classes.
Strudel_Lumpycakes 11-06-07, 11:56 PM	Well, I guess that solves that. Thanks for your help.
jradd777 11-07-07, 12:08 AM	Having looked up in the Dragon Magazine in question, the Xvart has a listed LA of +0. The only place I can see that could possibly have been mistaken for -2, is the challenge rating of a Xvart with levels in NPC classes. THANK YOU! I have been trying to figure out what the deal was with that for sooooo long. Thanks, again! You rock! Thanks to the OP for asking the question, too!
Jaxgaret 11-07-07, 12:21 AM	candlekeep Crystal Keep. Not everything in there is 100% accurate - you still need to access the source to be sure. And it hasn't been updated in months.
risner 11-07-07, 10:30 AM	Yeah, so I was looking through the candlekeep list of races, and stumbled upon a race called the Xvarts. Blue goblin-things from what I've heard. The stats are roughly the same as a Kobold. Nothing special. But then I see the the LA: -2. WHAT!?!?!?!?:eek: Does anyone here have Dragon issue 339 (page 64)? Can you confirm this for me? Is there something that I missed that could possibly explain this insane level adjustment? Thanks in advance. I have complained about that template the last two releases in his "post here for corrections or errors" threads at crystalkeep. He hasn't updated that either time and the most recent one is the October 1st edition. It is an excellent resource, but it is often wrong. He has Marshall listed as full BAB, spells with the wrong effects, Prestige Classes with the wrong pre-reqs. In short, Jaxgaret is right, you use it to find candidates, then look up the source to make sure.
Krusk 11-07-07, 01:11 PM	Crystal Keep. Not everything in there is 100% accurate - you still need to access the source to be sure. And it hasn't been updated in months. Hate that site, i've got a player who only owns phb and so he uses this to make elaborate characters. Then when he shows up it turns out the entire thing is wrong. Ive got most of the 3.5 books, so we check in those.
StruckingFuggle 11-07-07, 03:07 PM	Hate that site, i've got a player who only owns phb and so he uses this to make elaborate characters. Then when he shows up it turns out the entire thing is wrong. That's ... ... Seems like it'd make a lot more sense to hate the player, since the site hasn't really done anything.
Killydd 11-07-07, 04:59 PM	That's ... ... Seems like it'd make a lot more sense to hate the player, since the site hasn't really done anything. Well, I suppose it is annoying of the player to keep trusting a site that has given him incorrect information many times, but he's really just using the site as what it seems designed to do. The player is being relatively honest, but the site is lying to him.
jradd777 11-07-07, 05:59 PM	See, that was my problem, I couldn't find any way to get a hold of the Dragon Magazines or other resources to check up on the mistakes, because I had found problems in Crystal Keep, too, so I already knew it was likely some kind of mistake but I wasn't sure what sort of mistake, what was right, etc. Yeah, my LGish self feels it's the responsibility of the person with the site to make sure his/her info is completely accurate and immediately correct errors ASAP. Heh heh.
Krusk 11-07-07, 08:53 PM	That's ... ... Seems like it'd make a lot more sense to hate the player, since the site hasn't really done anything. Actually i try not to play with this player as much as possible, but -i think- thats just a coincidence.
risner 11-08-07, 02:18 PM	Well, I suppose it is annoying of the player to keep trusting a site that has given him incorrect information many times, but he's really just using the site as what it seems designed to do. The player is being relatively honest, but the site is lying to him. He is not using the site as what it is designed to do. He is supposed to use the site to find "potential" classes/feats/etc. They make no claim to be accurate. They make no claim to be complete. Quite simply, if he doesn't have access to the source material, it is unethical and irresponsible of him to attempt to make a character using just the cliff notes version of feats/classes/abilities. See, that was my problem, I couldn't find any way to get a hold of the Dragon Magazines or other resources You are in the wrong here. You have no business making characters using Crystalkeep if you don't have the source material, period.
Krusk 11-08-07, 04:50 PM	Quite simply, if he doesn't have access to the source material, it is unethical and irresponsible of him to attempt to make a character using just the cliff notes version of feats/classes/abilities. You are in the wrong here. You have no business making characters using Crystalkeep if you don't have the source material, period. He has access in the fact that i own most of the 3.5 books, and am willing to let him look at them. Thing is, we create characters on our own time iming back and forth to keep up to date on each others character concepts. then when we catually do get to meet each other we -normally- use that time to play.
jradd777 11-09-07, 02:27 AM	You are in the wrong here. You have no business making characters using Crystalkeep if you don't have the source material, period. Maybe I didn't make it clear but I never tried to make one because I can't get ahold of any of the material. I'd still like to make one but I haven't and won't until I get the material. I understand that Crystalkeep is an incomplete and sometimes inaccurate resource and I'd never play something that I made solely from that insufficient info. I was saying thank you because I was completely vexed by the "-2 LA." Just really curious as to how in the world that worked and what it meant etc, not because I actually intended to make a character with only info from Crystalkeep. They also don't state that they aren't complete/accurate, there's no disclaimer that I could find anywhere. Several places in the text seem to imply that they mean to be fairly complete/accurate. Overall, I was saying as a LG-type person, I think it is unethical for people to just throw anything they want to onto the internet, unprofessionally, etc. I think people who create websites should individually be more responsible for what they make public etc.
risner 11-09-07, 12:58 PM	Overall, I was saying as a LG-type person, I think it is unethical for people to just throw anything they want to onto the internet, unprofessionally, etc. I think people who create websites should individually be more responsible for what they make public etc. You make a site then. You have insulting and completely unrealistic expectations.
Jaxgaret 11-09-07, 03:04 PM	Overall, I was saying as a LG-type person, I think it is unethical for people to just throw anything they want to onto the internet, unprofessionally, etc. I think people who create websites should individually be more responsible for what they make public etc. You have insulting and completely unrealistic expectations. Agreed with risner. If you think it's unprofessional and unethical for someone to run a free website that provides you with a large amount of compiled information - for free - that's your problem. Good luck with conglomeratedcorpco.com, Mr. "Lawful Good".
AKA_Bait 11-09-07, 03:19 PM	Overall, I was saying as a LG-type person, I think it is unethical for people to just throw anything they want to onto the internet, unprofessionally, etc. I think people who create websites should individually be more responsible for what they make public etc. Then, I take it that you are not only perturbed by the lack of accurate information but at the borderline IP violations that the site perpetuates by giving such lists and the details that it does?
jradd777 11-09-07, 07:56 PM	You make a site then. You have insulting and completely unrealistic expectations. They are unrealistic, I'll grant that. But I'm not just talking about a site for D&D information. Again, I was speaking in general of anything on the internet. And as you've already posted later, I am somewhat perturbed by people just plagiarizing copyrighted information etc. Then again, I also have a philosophy that information as knowledge in general is good and therefore should be always be able to be shared with everyone, unfortunately, that's not how things work and we live in a capitalist economy etc. and you just can't do things like that by law. I don't understand why you think it's insulting, however, I'm just stating an opinion that's probably partially based in a background of scholarship. Because I've had hard times trying to right essays, reports etc. (much less when I'm just trying to learn things for my own information) and most of the information on the web is incomplete/inaccurate (as I said, I was speaking in general). All in all, I just think that people in the world should take more responsibility and more pride in their work if that is what they are going to do. I understand Crystalkeep is just a site with info about a game and in that regard I suppose it shouldn't be expected to have to meet the same standards of quality as a scientific site or something, but that's also why I threw it out there haphazardly as one of my opinions of the human condition in the first place (and chuckled at myself a bit). I didn't mean to offend anyone, again, really, it was half-jokingly considering the insignificance of the specific situation in relation to the issue that I was actually addressing. and @ Jaxgaret I don't have as much problem with the free site (because as I said, at heart, I don't agree with the capitalist society's grip on information, I think all information should be accessible to anyone, but because it is the law, people should just be a bit more careful) I have a problem with the irresponsibility of someone creating something that's supposed to something and then it isn't really. It's supposed to be a large amount of compiled information but in reality it is a large amount of compiled good information, bad information, misinformation, and incorrect information. Again, just in general, it'd be nice if people on the whole took more care in the things that we do to make sure that if we set out to do something we do it right and when wrong, we fix it. But I'm not just trying to hate on crystalkeep, they are a decent place to learn about options, how D&D is played etc. I was simply stating that the mistakes in it that aren't fixed are annoying and then I generalized that issue to something that I see as a larger societal issue. I'm sorry, if that offended you or if I didn't say it in a way that was clear. Again, you're right, I am being unrealistic to hope that people can be truly good, fully responsible, and virtuous etc. but sometimes the best things that people should hope for are a little unrealistic.