Post/Author/DateTime	Post
darkhunter2007 01-19-07, 03:59 AM	people learn from mistakes, i want to find atleast 101 things in race creation that isn't right to do: 1.creating a race FOR his fevorite class! this is a sad story of my player that always create stupied races just for the rogue class and not for culture. 2.making a race with LA of +4 and above...
mkill 01-19-07, 04:39 AM	1.creating a race for his favorite class! this is a sad story of my player that always create stupied races just for the rogue class and not for culture. It depends. If you come up with a class that has roguishness as the main part of it's culture, it's okay to give it racial abilities that are really great for rogues. Darkvision, skill bonuses, sneaky spell-like abilities... Giving a class "double damage on sneak attacks" is a different story... 2.making a race with LA of +4 and above... I'd make that point even stronger and say: Avoid LA like the plague. If it is in any way possible, make racial feats, bloodlines, savage progressions, paragon levels or whatever. My points: 3. Repeating something that has been done to death. Another anthropomorphic catty? Another elf? 4. Stealing from non-fantasy sources. Borg and similar just don't work in D&D. 5. Unadventurous races. I remember an anthropomorphic squirrel race (no comment on that) posted here, who just liked to live in their forests and sleep under the trees. Erm... how does that ever become an adventurer? 6. Unplayable. If your race is big as a house, or hideously scary, or has no arms, has no hands, no eyes, or must eat human flesh, or can't breathe oxygen, or can't leave it's forest, or has animal intelligence... there is no way a member of that race can adventure with standard player races. Just don't.
Sphyre 01-19-07, 04:59 AM	Jeez. I totally agree with 4. I see so many things that take the immersion of the game straight out when you try to force some idea into the game that just doesn't fit. 7) Odd racial ability adjustments. A lot of people don't understand why they are only even. 8) Making a LA +0 race that is so rediculously a LA +2 or more, and expecting people to applaud you for your overpowered race as opposed to criticize it.
gino 01-19-07, 07:40 AM	sad story of my player that always create stupied races just for the rogue class and not for culture. I believe it is called a halfling. :rolleyes: I thought it was so much rogue goodness until the Whisperer Gnome came out in Races of Stones. cheers, Gino
halflingofthenorth 01-19-07, 04:53 PM	9. taking somthing from another game or tv show and making that into a race that would be completly unoriginal and uncreative 10.playing a pc that is smaller than tiny logic says "boring" 11.playing a race with a complettly unfavored class ex. half-fiend paladin.....even though i dont think that is possible 12.playing a pc that has two completely different race sizes ex. half pixie-giant
RappinRabbi 01-19-07, 05:28 PM	I dissagree with your agruments as to size. I mean just yesterday this guy was asking about tiny and diminutive races with a +0 LA because he thought it would be cool for one of his friends who was like a half-ogre or something to have a tinkerbell like spell slinger in his pocket. I think what you really mean is in relative size to everyone who is playing. Although this argues against my above example I see the problem in playing an awakened criket in a party of humans. 13. Redesigns and variants. There cant be that many types of elf. THere just cant. 14. Improbable or overused half-breeds. As above a pixe is not going to mate with something that much bigger than itself. 15. Races with overnatural affinity. For example, a race that is overtailored to a class or set of abilities, such as the above favored class argument or feat build or skill build that makes it unplayable as other classes. Half-Giants might be naturally psionic but their still playable as other non-psionic classes. Im looking at you Kalashtar! (Which I am currently playing)
Kadasbrass 01-19-07, 05:34 PM	16) Creating a race that is 95% the same mechanics as another existing race and calling the thread "NEW Race (PEACH)"
Dark_Coyote 01-19-07, 06:36 PM	17.) When your players don't really care for the new homebrew races you worked so hard to create, and decide to take the elf instead. Make sure everyone wants this new race. 18.) Too many races in single campaign world just don't make sense! There is no way all these different societies and cultures can coexist peacefully mere miles apart! This is especially prevalent in publised material (the kriendik just happen to reside on the rims of Waterdeep, you just never took the time to look). Pick a few races you like, and keep them as your major racial nations! (sigh) All right then, I'm done ranting
Kadasbrass 01-19-07, 07:23 PM	18.) Too many races in single campaign world just don't make sense! There is no way all these different societies and cultures can coexist peacefully mere miles apart! This is especially prevalent in publised material (the kriendik just happen to reside on the rims of Waterdeep, you just never took the time to look). Pick a few races you like, and keep them as your major racial nations! Agreed, though I also apply it to base classes too. Less to work with means more time to develop it into a setting. My campaign settings will have 20 races (as unique as each other, or serving a purpose of some sort) and 16 classes.
Finfreeze 01-19-07, 09:18 PM	4. Stealing from non-fantasy sources. Borg and similar just don't work in D&D. Hey, hey. Science fiction and fantasy aren't that far apart. 14. Improbable or overused half-breeds. As above a pixe is not going to mate with something that much bigger than itself. You could always use magic, since it's everywhere. Most pixies aren't that small, plus they have innate magic. 18.) Too many races in single campaign world just don't make sense! There is no way all these different societies and cultures can coexist peacefully mere miles apart! This is especially prevalent in publised material (the kriendik just happen to reside on the rims of Waterdeep, you just never took the time to look). Pick a few races you like, and keep them as your major racial nations! Well, there's nothing wrong with having an abundance of races, as long as you give an explanation for them. My idea has 28,w30,334,803,948,084,048 different possible racial types, but they're for the most part mutant humans as a result of the innate energy of the setting as well as the female parent's imagination. These include humans with bird parts, humans with scales, humans with fur, humans with cat ears and feathers, the list goes on. There are exceptions — extremely long pointed ears occasionally = good at magic (although a lot of that is just superstition), a la Star Ocean's Nedians — but for the most part a human with bird feet and wings is just a different-looking human. If you want to fly, you're gonna have to level up. That doesn't mean there isn't tension, of course. Certain mutations are more likely to recur than others, especially if both parents are of the same basic type; hence there are fairly large numbers of selkies, lamias, catgirls and bunnygirls (males of the latter two are about as common as male calicos). The former two groups are structurally different enough from purebred humans to warrant being templates. And altogether, purebred humans are well in the minority. I've never been too much of a fan of racial nations being the major powers, though, since that only means that you end up cheering when those arrogant and stereotypical elves are nuked with an oversized mirror. I do agree with 2, 6, 7, and 15, though.
Vagrond 01-19-07, 09:34 PM	It depends. If you come up with a class that has roguishness as the main part of it's culture, it's okay to give it racial abilities that are really great for rogues. Darkvision, skill bonuses, sneaky spell-like abilities... Giving a class "double damage on sneak attacks" is a different story... I'd make that point even stronger and say: Avoid LA like the plague. If it is in any way possible, make racial feats, bloodlines, savage progressions, paragon levels or whatever. My points: 3. Repeating something that has been done to death. Another anthropomorphic catty? Another elf? 4. Stealing from non-fantasy sources. Borg and similar just don't work in D&D. COME TO EBERRON! WE HAVE MAGICAL ROBOTS!
Phelot_Plaguecrafter 01-19-07, 09:43 PM	19) Contrastly, only having one single race in a world. An entire campaign with all (or almost all) PC's being human is plausible but just not as entertaining. 20) Modeling a race after Final Fantasy. Seriously. Just...Stop. 21) Making a race that is only one gender. Genderless is okay. But an all male or all female race...It's just too weird, guys. Quit it. 22) Making a race specifically to be attractive. Like, hell with charisma, this race is automatically sexy. To everyone. Disclaimer: These are all personal preferences that a lot of people share. Not fact.
Kadasbrass 01-19-07, 10:06 PM	23) Making yet another Catfolk, or the now popular "Catgirl", race.
Asadeseth 01-19-07, 10:11 PM	OH common there is alwase room for catgirls... and bunnygirls
mkill 01-20-07, 08:12 AM	22) Making a race specifically to be attractive. Like, hell with charisma, this race is automatically sexy. To everyone. I plead guilty. Although that race had Succubus blood, it runs in their veins! I promise this will remain the only sexy race coming from my pen.
ArochanoX 01-20-07, 09:02 AM	24) Know the existing rules, races and fluff of those races. There almost always are a race that fits the role you want to create. 25) Do not create overly complicated or time-consuming mechanics as they slow down the game. 26) When you see some kind of comment, don't ignore it unless it has no arguments whatsoever. There must be a reason that poster complained about ability X of your race. 27) Do not use peach. Every poster should read the post completely and understand the post completely before posting comments. (Though posting things only rules-wise or fluff-wise is okay.) 28) If you don't like something on some post because of your personal dislikes. Don't post that comment. It's useless. 29a) When one forcibly tries to add LA +5 abilities to a LA 0 race just don't work. With penalties that would offset the LA +5 ability, the race will be very unbalanced one-trick-pony. Every race should be atleast moderately playable for all (phb-) classes. 29b) Do not forcibly try to create LA +0 creature if the creature is intended to be very powerful. Use level adujustment and, if needed, post savage progression for the race. La isn't as bad as mkill said. Heh. phew. Lot's of good stuff here. I hope some-one will gather the best of these to a single thread that would be named "Race Builder's Guide"
Dastari 01-20-07, 09:33 AM	27) Do not use peach. Every poster should read the post completely and understand the post completely before posting comments. (Though posting things only rules-wise or fluff-wise is okay.) What is PEACH? I see lots of threads here with that in the subject header and I still haven't figured out what it means.
HK-47 II 01-20-07, 09:58 AM	Peach Please Examine And Critique Honestly
Fallenangel359 01-20-07, 10:08 AM	Also, don't just go about stacking templates just because you feel that you can, even if they are in a book. If you are starting a 3rd level evil campaign, and you want to play a 3rd level elven rogue, don't play a 3rd level elven rogue that has bone creature, and corrupted templates, clawing people to death, and then wear a hat of disguise to hide your undeadness Its just terribly wrong. Instead of +2 dex, -2 con and a d6, you have no con, d12 hit die, undead immunities, and +6 dex, and free weapon finesse. To be honest, in the current game I'm running, we have a necropolitan dread necromancer. He uses a hat of disguise... Chaotic good necromancer.
darkhunter2007 02-16-07, 10:56 AM	19) Contrastly, only having one single race in a world. An entire campaign with all (or almost all) PC's being human is plausible but just not as entertaining. 20) Modeling a race after Final Fantasy. Seriously. Just...Stop. 21) Making a race that is only one gender. Genderless is okay. But an all male or all female race...It's just too weird, guys. Quit it. 22) Making a race specifically to be attractive. Like, hell with charisma, this race is automatically sexy. To everyone. Disclaimer: These are all personal preferences that a lot of people share. Not fact. I preety like 21, i'll make an all female race (ah)...
YabaTheWhat 02-16-07, 11:43 AM	18.) Too many races in single campaign world just don't make sense! There is no way all these different societies and cultures can coexist peacefully mere miles apart! This is especially prevalent in publised material (the kriendik just happen to reside on the rims of Waterdeep, you just never took the time to look). Pick a few races you like, and keep them as your major racial nations! Certain special campaign world designs can explain the presence of numerous races. These settings usually involve a cultural/racial convergence point, such as planar crossroads (Planescape). Other than that, yes, too many civilizations ruin the world. Make sure every race in a campaign setting has a plausible explanation for being there. _________ Mistake # 30) Modeling a race after a single anime character, or a small group of anime characters in a single anime. This correlates with the earlier mistakes of making an obsurdly powerful race and trying to stuff it into a low ECL. Dragonball Z characters have prestige class levels, as do s-cry-ed Alters. Super Saiyan is not a race. Accept that and move on.
Spikes01k 04-08-07, 01:03 PM	21) Making a race that is only one gender. Genderless is okay. But an all male or all female race...It's just too weird, guys. Quit it. Wow some one hasn't played v2 and 2.5 DnD, there were a number of races that were only one gender.
Spikes01k 04-08-07, 01:11 PM	24) 25) Do not create overly complicated or time-consuming mechanics as they slow down the game. OK I am guilty of this one, but while avoiding LA and ECL like the plague this can happen! 31) Stop using Cha as a dump stat in race creation! Even the the game creators are guilty of this, look at the Half Orcs! In my opinion, half ors, stat wise only, should get +2 Str; -2 Int and Wis, but balanced with a +2 spot and lessen.
Armoracia Rusticana 04-08-07, 03:35 PM	32. Negative LA
T_K 04-08-07, 03:39 PM	19) Contrastly, only having one single race in a world. An entire campaign with all (or almost all) PC's being human is plausible but just not as entertaining. I realise that this is your personal preference, but I still have to disagree. If all the cultures are human, it's a constraint that drives the GM to develop depth beyond the cosmetic oddities of fantasy races. In worlds like this, you have to make the "weird culture" weird by virtue of their odd customs and religions, since you don't have odd ears or exotic skin colour to fall back on. I'm not calling you an unimaginative GM, btw. An all-human world is something that everyone should try at least once, that's all I'm saying.
Ryusage 04-08-07, 03:48 PM	32. Negative LA I second this. Your race would have to be incredibly terrible to even warrant a -1. An extra class level is a great asset.
Leatherwood 04-08-07, 03:57 PM	33. At will spell-like abilities. These are more trouble then what they are worth. 34. Massive penalties & massive bonuses. These races either serve only to encourage min-maxing and cookie cutter characters or are completely unplayable. 35. Always one particular alignement. Player character races are meant to be flexable enough to fit several different character concepts.
Rotfl_and_Lol 04-08-07, 04:12 PM	36. Races "balanced" by dumping stat, that don't fit chosen class. One of my players was constantly begging me to make a race for his character, and told me that +4 Str +4 Con -8 Cha -2 Wis is balanced. 37. Super pwners. Teh pwn living on teh uber volcano, juggling magma balls all day and killing tarrasques for fun. Of course LA 0... 38. Some strange powers, out of the blue. Ex. magic missile for elf, because "elfs r teh majick". 39. Races created from madness. Half-anything construct?! How it does breed?! What organs does it have!? 40. Aaaaaawwwwww, cute races. Anything that is fluffy and looks more like kitten than human. Things like that are adventurers only when they were ones before polymorph or something... 41. Toe-headed dreaded tongue-walkers. Creatures that don't look humanoid should rarely be played. These races are playable only after talking with DM. 42. Mighty dragon/demon/anything descendants. We have tieflings, draconic creatures and things like that. No need for "Uber Prismatic Dragon fiend-blooded naga thingy". Use templates if you need. 43. Half-nymph, half-dragon, half-elemental, half-blue... Don't create mongrels.
AZNsupermarket 04-08-07, 04:52 PM	44. Races with crazily unbalanced ability score adjustments and LA +0, which are "balanced" by other non-ability score penalties. 45. Claiming a race is balanced based purely on the belief that YabbaTheWhat's Feature Points say that the race is balanced. The system isn't perfect! It still lists Kobolds and Half-Elves as stronger than Humans! I mean, come on! Do you need more proof that the system doesn't account for every ability appropriately?
Neutronium_Dragon 04-08-07, 06:46 PM	>> 18.) Too many races in single campaign world just don't make sense! >> There is no way all these different societies and cultures can coexist >> peacefully mere miles apart! This is especially prevalent in publised material >> (the kriendik just happen to reside on the rims of Waterdeep, you just >> never took the time to look). Pick a few races you like, and keep them as >> your major racial nations! > > Well, there's nothing wrong with having an abundance of races, as long as > you give an explanation for them. It can also work if you don't use the worn out "every race has its own monolithic culture" stereotype, although this means departing from the D&D standard. While it's not a perfect example, the province of Cyrodiil in TES 4: Oblivion is one such case - you have somewhere close to a dozen different races (human, elf, and otherwise) living in the same area and sharing many of the same cultural standards as a single society.
Skritz_the_Lizardmen 04-08-07, 07:35 PM	COME TO EBERRON! WE HAVE MAGICAL ROBOTS! Never criticise the Warforged when IM around... 32. Negative LA Uuhh...never tought that was possible...in fact, is IT possible???
Gilganarz_the_reporter 04-09-07, 04:17 AM	COME TO EBERRON! WE HAVE MAGICAL ROBOTS! I just got a letter from Misters Tinman and Frankenstein. They wish to correct your views on intelligent constructs in fantasy.
Naderion 04-09-07, 07:38 AM	I think to create a good roleplaying race, you have to create it for a specific world. It's not the stats that make a cool race, but the background and place in the world.
Guroth the Forsaken 04-09-07, 09:59 AM	45). Making yet ANOTHER elf race. Of any kind. At all. 46). Making a DBZ race.
Warforged Goblin 04-09-07, 10:05 AM	COME TO EBERRON! WE HAVE MAGICAL ROBOTS! I assume that when you said the above quote, you were referring to golems, and to a lesser extent mindless undead, as they are clearly "MAGICAL ROBOTS". They are put together by skilled artisans, they cannot make their own choices or decisions, and must be controlled by their creators. Now, if you meant the warforged, a race of beings that are sentient, have emotions, and can think and reason on their own, I believe you are in error. Now, no one has posted "COME TO THE FORGOTTEN REALMS! WE HAVE MORE SUBRACES THAN YOU CAN SHAKE A STICK AT!", but I'm sure that this was only a miscommunication and not the start of an Eberron vs. Realms flame war. [/Rant] 47. Just go crazy with racial bonuses. Kobolds are miners, dwarves are metalworkers, gnomes are alchemists. If you have a race who has spent generation upon generation honing their skills at wood carving, a +2 racial bonus to Craft checks made with wood makes sense, a +2 bonus on Use Magic Device, Iajutsu Focus, and Open Lock doesn't. 48. Have your progenitors make no sense whatsoever. Half-races are good because they make sense, as are changelings and shifters. If you're going this route, use a vaguely humanoid looking race as the progenitor of yours. A +0 LA race descended from lizardfolk is fine, one descended from krakens, not so much.
skio 04-09-07, 10:11 AM	I assume that when you said the above quote, you were referring to golems, and to a lesser extent mindless undead, as they are clearly "MAGICAL ROBOTS". They are put together by skilled artisans, they cannot make their own choices or decisions, and must be controlled by their creators. Now, if you meant the warforged, a race of beings that are sentient, have emotions, and can think and reason on their own, I believe you are in error. I believe he meant 'Droids' (a la Star Wars), not robots. Warforged are droids, in effect. 46. Know what you want your race to do and have them do it well. Kobolds are miners, dwarves are metalworkers, gnomes are alchemists. If you have a race who has spent generation upon generation honing their skills at wood carving, a +2 racial bonus to Craft checks made with wood makes sense. 49. Do not over-specialize your race. It is impossible a WHOLE race being good at wood-carving.
Warforged Goblin 04-09-07, 11:26 AM	49. Do not over-specialize your race. It is impossible a WHOLE race being good at wood-carving. This is true, but that doesn't mean that the race shouldn't get the bonus. In DnD terms, to be "good" at something you need to put ranks in that skill. Gnomes get a +2 racial bonus to Craft (alchemy). Does that mean all gnomes HAVE to be alchemists? No. It just means that the race on the whole has a predaliction towards it. I'm also not suggesting to have a race that's "The Wood Carving Race". A race of forest dwellers who have spent generations protecting the forests and using them to the best of their ability should probably get +2 to Craft (wood carving), Survival, and Knowledge (nature). Are you saying that dwarves shouldn't get a bonus to metal working because they're "over-specialized"? And, for the record, warforged are not droids. Warforged, despite their metal bodies, are LIVING creatures. I'm not sure if any of you looked at the stats of a warforged, but there's a little thing called the "living construct" subtype that they have. Droids, robots, cyborgs, and androids do not, to my knowledge, have this subtype. And should they ever acquire that subtype that doesn't mean that the 'forged are just like them. That's like saying a dwarf and an elf are the same thing because they have the "humanoid" type. Sure, if you don't know what you're talking about or don't like dwarves or elves, this makes complete sense. However, it doesn't make it correct.
skio 04-09-07, 05:09 PM	And, for the record, warforged are not droids. Warforged, despite their metal bodies, are LIVING creatures. I'm not sure if any of you looked at the stats of a warforged, but there's a little thing called the "living construct" subtype that they have. Droids, robots, cyborgs, and androids do not, to my knowledge, have this subtype. And should they ever acquire that subtype that doesn't mean that the 'forged are just like them. That's like saying a dwarf and an elf are the same thing because they have the "humanoid" type. Sure, if you don't know what you're talking about or don't like dwarves or elves, this makes complete sense. However, it doesn't make it correct. I was not referring to neither their type nor their physiology. I said they are droids IN EFFECT, that is, they occupy the same niche droids do in the SW universe, inteligent constructs with their own behavour patterns. They are like droids in matters of flavour, not mechanics.
penchant 04-10-07, 12:01 AM	50. Do not make a race that has an alien incomprehensible intellect. Fantasy is still about people and if you cannot relate to a member of a race as a "person" then its just a stat monkey.
Return of the Flumph 04-10-07, 12:18 AM	51. Clife Clifes are a tall, fair skinned humanoid race with blue eyes and spiky yellow hair. Clifes are usually raised in dystopian human empires, and are often plagued by amnesia, delusions of grandeur, and similar psychiatric ailments. Most have a limited military background. There are no female Clifes. Weapon Proficiency Clifes are automatically proficient with Fullblades. They can use no other weapons but fullblades and grenades. Uncanny Leap Clifes gain a +4 racial bonus to Jump checks. Omnislash Three times per day, a Clife can empower its melee attacks. Omnislash allows you to make double your usual number of attacks, and does double damage on each succesful hit.
Angel Black 04-10-07, 06:05 PM	52-Race has a superb +N in one thing and -1 in a ton of things "So I have this LA +0 race, with a + 8 Natural Armor, but is unable to perform the flute, can't remember their own names, ..."