2 heads, twice the power! [Archive] - Wizards Community

2 heads, twice the power! [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nerick_Zinekamcen
12-06-07, 09:52 PM I wanted to make a two-headed spellcaster. (using multiheaded template from savage species) I was thinking Wizard/Cleric (So I have a large variety of spells to cast) especially because I can cast two spells at once. (multivoice feat) I also have a theory that may have been on the boards before. (I'm new and havn't seen it before) Since wizard and cleric are both classes that depend on the mind (as opposed to fighter which depends on the body), and two heads equals two minds (and personalities) shouldn't each head be allowed to take class levels independantly? (It makes sense to me.) If anyone could clarify this it would be most apreciated. Also as stated I'm new at forums so if I say something stupid I'm sorry
zook1shoe666
12-06-07, 10:41 PM shouldn't each head be allowed to take class levels independantly? (It makes sense to me.) If anyone could clarify this it would be most apreciated.

no, its still a single character. otherwise for the LA, the multiheaded template would be INSANE!!!

EDIT: no pun intended ;)
Bahumut
12-07-07, 12:30 AM i've always wanted to play one head of a two headed character, and have someone else play the other head. very comedic. i'd have an arm, they'd have an arm, and we would share the legs; our movement combined couldn't go above our speed. at the very least, it would be an experiment in balance.
skio
12-07-07, 09:24 AM I had DMed a quest where two players played the two heads of an ettin, a OA Shaman and a Barbarian.

We played only 2 sessions before the group split up. The character was fun, but IMO the players couldn't roleplay it correctly, so it developed into a mean killing machine that bullied the other players.

The mechanics seemed complex at first but came out easily. The RP part was tricky though. The players should control their character by duing their conversation in-game. My players did it out of game, irregarding their in-game personalities, and always agreed in everything, despite how absurd. And this combination made the character uber-powerful and abusive of the game.
Dog_O_War
12-07-07, 01:08 PM The only thing I ever ran into was a two-headed Red dragon.

Ancient wyrm.

The game was epic though, and we had sought out the dragon purposefully for information.

Kinda scary though; we had to give the dragon something in exchange. I gave it a challenge it only had a 5% chance of succeeding at.
Sinfire Titan
12-07-07, 07:09 PM Don't. Savage Species, as much as I like it, is a highly contested splatbook. A number of DM's consider the whole concept a pile of cheese. If you do, however, decide to go through with it: Play an Arcane Hierophant/Ultimate Magus/Any other combo of Spellcasters. You will get a much larger benefit from it than normal, as you won't run yourself dry on spells in four rounds worth of daily combat.
Nerick_Zinekamcen
12-07-07, 08:07 PM no, its still a single character. otherwise for the LA, the multiheaded template would be INSANE!!!

EDIT: no pun intended ;)

What if each head got half the class levels so it still had the same ECA (EX:5th level Wizard + 5th level Cleric = 10th level character (not counting level adjustment and hit dice))

Sorry I'm being so stubborn about this. I'm just trying to come up with something interesting.
zook1shoe666
12-07-07, 11:50 PM i think i was thinking more about you implying dual actions..... not that powerful, but still some
WebJiCi
12-08-07, 07:07 AM Can you tell me how will you get Multivoice ? Because you need Multiattack as a prerequisite, so unless your spellcaster has 3 natural weapons, you can't even get Multivoice.
Nerick_Zinekamcen
12-11-07, 09:42 PM :surrender Okay, Okay, I give up:surrender
Warweaver
12-11-07, 10:26 PM Don't give up! I'm sure there's a way to get three natural attacks. Play a two-headed Shifter from Eberron? Be a Sorcerer and take those Draconic feats in Complete Arcane that give you claws (maybe there's a bite one too)? Sucker your DM into letting you get a fiendish graft or two...?

I think it's a neat idea, though certainly feat intensive. :P
NoldorForce
12-12-07, 12:04 AM Sharn (as in Monsters of Faerun) used to be able to do this sort of thing, but then were fixed in the very recent Anauroch: Empire of Shade. (More precisely, they were a ECL 9 race with 7th-level sorcerer and 5th-level cleric casting, each of which improved at the same rate as Hit Dice.)

The closest thing you can currently get is to play a phaerimm. The youngest ones have LA +2 and 1 HD (which gets subsumed by class levels), in addition to sorcerer casting = HD. Look in either Lost Empires of Faerun or the PGtF web enhancement for them.
zook1shoe666
12-12-07, 12:34 AM yeah.... i was in the process of making a really scary "# of attacks" build.... and Grafts may be your friend ;)
WebJiCi
12-12-07, 07:46 AM :surrender Okay, Okay, I give up:surrenderAw come on, cheer up, there's plenty of ways to get this feat.

A wizard/sorcerer can get TWF at 3rd level and Imp. TWF at 12th level, first. Second, the best race for Multivoice is a half-dragon. Take a human, tag the half-dragon and tag the multi-headed template: +5 LA... I think.

Take the Dragon Breath feat from Races of the Dragon at 6th level and you'll get two breath weapons at a 1d4 round use, both at 6d8 points of damage. Why? because layering the half-dragon BEFORE the multi-headed template grants you 1 breath weapon per head, while vice-versa grants you only one.
Nerick_Zinekamcen
12-12-07, 05:13 PM :D Thanks guys (or girls) I'll keep at it!:D
WebJiCi
12-12-07, 07:56 PM Hey, this is what the boards are for.

I still don't understand why Multiattack is a prerequisite to Multivoice. TWF and Imp. TWF make sense since you're "attacking with 2 weapons [spells]", but why must I have 3 natural attacks ? I first thought it was for ettin spellcasters, but even ettins don't have natural attacks at all...

What gives... ? You might want to ask your DM about houseruling this feat.

Back to your second question, you might want to go gestalt if you want to play a dual-minded character. If not, you could pick the Mystic Theurge PrC to get 15/15 per class, but you must multiclass 5 levels of wizard/5 levels of cleric.
Nerick_Zinekamcen
12-12-07, 09:59 PM I still don't understand why Multiattack is a prerequisite to Multivoice. TWF and Imp. TWF make sense since you're "attacking with 2 weapons [spells]", but why must I have 3 natural attacks ?

I didn't get that either, but neither does my DM. He is going to remake the feat.
Nerick_Zinekamcen
12-12-07, 10:00 PM Hey, this is what the boards are for.

I still don't understand why Multiattack is a prerequisite to Multivoice. TWF and Imp. TWF make sense since you're "attacking with 2 weapons [spells]", but why must I have 3 natural attacks ? I first thought it was for ettin spellcasters, but even ettins don't have natural attacks at all...

What gives... ? You might want to ask your DM about houseruling this feat.

Back to your second question, you might want to go gestalt if you want to play a dual-minded character. If not, you could pick the Mystic Theurge PrC to get 15/15 per class, but you must multiclass 5 levels of wizard/5 levels of cleric.

I didn't get the whole multiattack thing either. My DM also thinks it makes no sense so he is remaking the feat.
WebJiCi
12-13-07, 09:27 PM I didn't get that either, but neither does my DM. He is going to remake the feat.Ok

I didn't get the whole multiattack thing either. My DM also thinks it makes no sense so he is remaking the feat.Ok too :P
Nerick_Zinekamcen
12-14-07, 05:05 PM Sorry, I thought the first one didn't post so I did it again.
sigma999
12-18-07, 09:58 PM Interesting thread.

I'm curious, however, if there are decent applications of the multiheaded template as a spell.
You know, similar to the spells that grant many arms, lycanthropy, combine two bodies into one (actually Psionic, but who is counting)

So for about 1 minute per level per casting, two or more PCs could combine into some multiheaded monstrosity for Teh Ultimate Powwaaaaa and do your ridiculous finishing move, or for at least one battle have everyone gain the benefit of each "self" buff at the same time.

Judging the spell level would be the hard part.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nerick_Zinekamcen 12-06-07, 09:52 PM	I wanted to make a two-headed spellcaster. (using multiheaded template from savage species) I was thinking Wizard/Cleric (So I have a large variety of spells to cast) especially because I can cast two spells at once. (multivoice feat) I also have a theory that may have been on the boards before. (I'm new and havn't seen it before) Since wizard and cleric are both classes that depend on the mind (as opposed to fighter which depends on the body), and two heads equals two minds (and personalities) shouldn't each head be allowed to take class levels independantly? (It makes sense to me.) If anyone could clarify this it would be most apreciated. Also as stated I'm new at forums so if I say something stupid I'm sorry
zook1shoe666 12-06-07, 10:41 PM	shouldn't each head be allowed to take class levels independantly? (It makes sense to me.) If anyone could clarify this it would be most apreciated. no, its still a single character. otherwise for the LA, the multiheaded template would be INSANE!!! EDIT: no pun intended ;)
Bahumut 12-07-07, 12:30 AM	i've always wanted to play one head of a two headed character, and have someone else play the other head. very comedic. i'd have an arm, they'd have an arm, and we would share the legs; our movement combined couldn't go above our speed. at the very least, it would be an experiment in balance.
skio 12-07-07, 09:24 AM	I had DMed a quest where two players played the two heads of an ettin, a OA Shaman and a Barbarian. We played only 2 sessions before the group split up. The character was fun, but IMO the players couldn't roleplay it correctly, so it developed into a mean killing machine that bullied the other players. The mechanics seemed complex at first but came out easily. The RP part was tricky though. The players should control their character by duing their conversation in-game. My players did it out of game, irregarding their in-game personalities, and always agreed in everything, despite how absurd. And this combination made the character uber-powerful and abusive of the game.
Dog_O_War 12-07-07, 01:08 PM	The only thing I ever ran into was a two-headed Red dragon. Ancient wyrm. The game was epic though, and we had sought out the dragon purposefully for information. Kinda scary though; we had to give the dragon something in exchange. I gave it a challenge it only had a 5% chance of succeeding at.
Sinfire Titan 12-07-07, 07:09 PM	Don't. Savage Species, as much as I like it, is a highly contested splatbook. A number of DM's consider the whole concept a pile of cheese. If you do, however, decide to go through with it: Play an Arcane Hierophant/Ultimate Magus/Any other combo of Spellcasters. You will get a much larger benefit from it than normal, as you won't run yourself dry on spells in four rounds worth of daily combat.
Nerick_Zinekamcen 12-07-07, 08:07 PM	no, its still a single character. otherwise for the LA, the multiheaded template would be INSANE!!! EDIT: no pun intended ;) What if each head got half the class levels so it still had the same ECA (EX:5th level Wizard + 5th level Cleric = 10th level character (not counting level adjustment and hit dice)) Sorry I'm being so stubborn about this. I'm just trying to come up with something interesting.
zook1shoe666 12-07-07, 11:50 PM	i think i was thinking more about you implying dual actions..... not that powerful, but still some
WebJiCi 12-08-07, 07:07 AM	Can you tell me how will you get Multivoice ? Because you need Multiattack as a prerequisite, so unless your spellcaster has 3 natural weapons, you can't even get Multivoice.
Nerick_Zinekamcen 12-11-07, 09:42 PM	:surrender Okay, Okay, I give up:surrender
Warweaver 12-11-07, 10:26 PM	Don't give up! I'm sure there's a way to get three natural attacks. Play a two-headed Shifter from Eberron? Be a Sorcerer and take those Draconic feats in Complete Arcane that give you claws (maybe there's a bite one too)? Sucker your DM into letting you get a fiendish graft or two...? I think it's a neat idea, though certainly feat intensive. :P
NoldorForce 12-12-07, 12:04 AM	Sharn (as in Monsters of Faerun) used to be able to do this sort of thing, but then were fixed in the very recent Anauroch: Empire of Shade. (More precisely, they were a ECL 9 race with 7th-level sorcerer and 5th-level cleric casting, each of which improved at the same rate as Hit Dice.) The closest thing you can currently get is to play a phaerimm. The youngest ones have LA +2 and 1 HD (which gets subsumed by class levels), in addition to sorcerer casting = HD. Look in either Lost Empires of Faerun or the PGtF web enhancement for them.
zook1shoe666 12-12-07, 12:34 AM	yeah.... i was in the process of making a really scary "# of attacks" build.... and Grafts may be your friend ;)
WebJiCi 12-12-07, 07:46 AM	:surrender Okay, Okay, I give up:surrenderAw come on, cheer up, there's plenty of ways to get this feat. A wizard/sorcerer can get TWF at 3rd level and Imp. TWF at 12th level, first. Second, the best race for Multivoice is a half-dragon. Take a human, tag the half-dragon and tag the multi-headed template: +5 LA... I think. Take the Dragon Breath feat from Races of the Dragon at 6th level and you'll get two breath weapons at a 1d4 round use, both at 6d8 points of damage. Why? because layering the half-dragon BEFORE the multi-headed template grants you 1 breath weapon per head, while vice-versa grants you only one.
Nerick_Zinekamcen 12-12-07, 05:13 PM	:D Thanks guys (or girls) I'll keep at it!:D
WebJiCi 12-12-07, 07:56 PM	Hey, this is what the boards are for. I still don't understand why Multiattack is a prerequisite to Multivoice. TWF and Imp. TWF make sense since you're "attacking with 2 weapons [spells]", but why must I have 3 natural attacks ? I first thought it was for ettin spellcasters, but even ettins don't have natural attacks at all... What gives... ? You might want to ask your DM about houseruling this feat. Back to your second question, you might want to go gestalt if you want to play a dual-minded character. If not, you could pick the Mystic Theurge PrC to get 15/15 per class, but you must multiclass 5 levels of wizard/5 levels of cleric.
Nerick_Zinekamcen 12-12-07, 09:59 PM	I still don't understand why Multiattack is a prerequisite to Multivoice. TWF and Imp. TWF make sense since you're "attacking with 2 weapons [spells]", but why must I have 3 natural attacks ? I didn't get that either, but neither does my DM. He is going to remake the feat.
Nerick_Zinekamcen 12-12-07, 10:00 PM	Hey, this is what the boards are for. I still don't understand why Multiattack is a prerequisite to Multivoice. TWF and Imp. TWF make sense since you're "attacking with 2 weapons [spells]", but why must I have 3 natural attacks ? I first thought it was for ettin spellcasters, but even ettins don't have natural attacks at all... What gives... ? You might want to ask your DM about houseruling this feat. Back to your second question, you might want to go gestalt if you want to play a dual-minded character. If not, you could pick the Mystic Theurge PrC to get 15/15 per class, but you must multiclass 5 levels of wizard/5 levels of cleric. I didn't get the whole multiattack thing either. My DM also thinks it makes no sense so he is remaking the feat.
WebJiCi 12-13-07, 09:27 PM	I didn't get that either, but neither does my DM. He is going to remake the feat.Ok I didn't get the whole multiattack thing either. My DM also thinks it makes no sense so he is remaking the feat.Ok too :P
Nerick_Zinekamcen 12-14-07, 05:05 PM	Sorry, I thought the first one didn't post so I did it again.
sigma999 12-18-07, 09:58 PM	Interesting thread. I'm curious, however, if there are decent applications of the multiheaded template as a spell. You know, similar to the spells that grant many arms, lycanthropy, combine two bodies into one (actually Psionic, but who is counting) So for about 1 minute per level per casting, two or more PCs could combine into some multiheaded monstrosity for Teh Ultimate Powwaaaaa and do your ridiculous finishing move, or for at least one battle have everyone gain the benefit of each "self" buff at the same time. Judging the spell level would be the hard part.