3.5 hobgoblin, something fishy? [Archive] - Wizards Community

3.5 hobgoblin, something fishy? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Nadaka
04-02-07, 05:16 PM I knew that the "Hobgoblin Character" stats for the hobgoblin match the 3.0 hobgoblin except it has an LA of +1 instead of +0.

However, I just reread the hobgoblin stat block and noticed that it gets +2 str, and +2 con over what it had in the 3.0 MM as well as a -2 wis, -2 cha.

What are the correct values?
+2 dex, +2 con, +4 move silently, darkvision, goblin blood, +1 LA?
or
+2 str, 2 dex, +4 con, -2 wis, -2 cha +4 move silently, darkvision, goblin blood, +1 LA?

Edit: NVM, I just noticed that warriors are built with the standard array in 3.5...
SilverFoxKnows
04-02-07, 08:18 PM By the SRD they get +2 to Dex & Con, +4 to Move Silent and Darkvision. +1 LA. I houserule them as LA+0. Dwarves, Halflings, Gnomes and Elves all get more racial abilities than that at no LA.
Nifft
04-02-07, 08:26 PM IMC, Hobgoblins are LA +1, but they additionally get a bonus feat at 1st level (just like Humans get). They're the "versatile, in-charge" evil race, so I like them being similar to Humans (the "versatile, in-charge" good race).

Cheers, -- N
Treymordin
04-02-07, 08:32 PM Always go by the SRD or errata.
teshen
04-02-07, 08:35 PM . . .Humans (the "versatile, in-charge" good race).
:heehee

I'm sorry... that made me laugh.

Anyway, I agree with SilverFox. The bonuses hobgoblins receive is in no way stronger than any of the base races in the Players Handbook... except maybe the Half Orc and the Half Elf... both of which feel mechanically weak when stacked up against the rest.
Nifft
04-02-07, 08:40 PM :heehee

I'm sorry... that made me laugh.

I admit, it's fiction and setting-specific. ;)

Anyway, I agree with SilverFox. The bonuses hobgoblins receive is in no way stronger than any of the base races in the Players Handbook... except maybe the Half Orc and the Half Elf... both of which feel mechanically weak when stacked up against the rest.

Thing is, they break one of the LA +0 Commandments: Thou Shalt Not Grant Ability Modifiers That Result In A Net Gain. Their +2 Dex, +2 Con are what really push them over the edge (technically).

Cheers, -- N
betrayor
04-02-07, 08:51 PM I admit, it's fiction and setting-specific. ;)

Thing is, they break one of the LA +0 Commandments: Thou Shalt Not Grant Ability Modifiers That Result In A Net Gain. Their +2 Dex, +2 Con are what really push them over the edge (technically).

Cheers, -- N

Lesser Planettouched.
Nadaka
04-02-07, 11:50 PM eh, personally I think that hobgoblins are actually slightly better than the standard races. While they may have few bonuses, they are some quite nice bonuses and no penalties.

Are they worth a full +1 LA? no. But the only other race that gives them a run for their money are the halfling (in stealth), dwarf (in combat) and human (flexibility). If they can meet or beat 3 different races in their niche, they are a bit to strong.

IMO, they should get a little extra boost to make them worth the +1 LA.
Vrykolas2k
04-03-07, 01:23 AM I ignore the LA.
Also, they are balanced out... role-playing isn't all combat, unlike most video games, so the penalties they take are a touch much in my opinion.
runestar
04-03-07, 01:33 AM You could allow them at LA+0, just take away the feat they would normally get at 1st lv in exchange.:)
Finfreeze
04-03-07, 04:11 AM Out of the standard goblinoids, hobgoblins are by far the least interesting. I mean, seriously, they can't compare to the awesomeness of bugbears:

http://www.wizards.com/d20modern/images/ua_gallery/50023.jpg
http://www.wizards.com/d20modern/images/ua_gallery/49974.jpg
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ss_gallery/49197.jpg

...and goblins at least have interesting mechanics (small size, good mobility for their size, riding ability) to call their own beyond ability score mods. Hobgoblins don't really have much beyond their ability scores. As a result, it's a bit of a pain to balance them.
AMGriffin
04-03-07, 09:50 AM Sure, balancing hobgoblins is pretty easy. Here's the LA+1 Variant I use.

Hobgoblins
• +2 Dexterity +2 Constitution. Hobgoblins are athletic beings with a high degree of stamina.
• Medium size humanoids with the goblinoid subtype.
• 30 feet base land speed
• Darkvision. Hobgoblins can see in the dark up to 60 feet.
• +4 racial bonus on move silently checks. Like all goblinoids, hobgoblins have an uncanny aptitude for moving stealthily.
• Arms training: living under a strict military type government, hobgoblins train in the use of a wide variety of weapons. All hobgoblins may select one exotic weapon to be proficient in.
• Bonus feat: Endurance.
• +2 racial bonus on craft checks related to weapons or armor. In hobgoblin society everybody is a soldier and is trained to prepare their own equipment.
• +1 natural armor. Hobgoblins are thick skinned and durable.
• Automatic Languages: Common, Goblin. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Infernal, Giant, Orc. A hobgoblin learns the languages of potential allies or enemies, but they will not learn elven under any circumstance, any hobgoblin caught speaking elven within the presence of a hobgoblin society will be punished.
• Favored class: Fighter. Hobgoblins are disciplined soldiers.
• LA: +1

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Nadaka 04-02-07, 05:16 PM	I knew that the "Hobgoblin Character" stats for the hobgoblin match the 3.0 hobgoblin except it has an LA of +1 instead of +0. However, I just reread the hobgoblin stat block and noticed that it gets +2 str, and +2 con over what it had in the 3.0 MM as well as a -2 wis, -2 cha. What are the correct values? +2 dex, +2 con, +4 move silently, darkvision, goblin blood, +1 LA? or +2 str, 2 dex, +4 con, -2 wis, -2 cha +4 move silently, darkvision, goblin blood, +1 LA? Edit: NVM, I just noticed that warriors are built with the standard array in 3.5...
SilverFoxKnows 04-02-07, 08:18 PM	By the SRD they get +2 to Dex & Con, +4 to Move Silent and Darkvision. +1 LA. I houserule them as LA+0. Dwarves, Halflings, Gnomes and Elves all get more racial abilities than that at no LA.
Nifft 04-02-07, 08:26 PM	IMC, Hobgoblins are LA +1, but they additionally get a bonus feat at 1st level (just like Humans get). They're the "versatile, in-charge" evil race, so I like them being similar to Humans (the "versatile, in-charge" good race). Cheers, -- N
Treymordin 04-02-07, 08:32 PM	Always go by the SRD or errata.
teshen 04-02-07, 08:35 PM	. . .Humans (the "versatile, in-charge" good race). :heehee I'm sorry... that made me laugh. Anyway, I agree with SilverFox. The bonuses hobgoblins receive is in no way stronger than any of the base races in the Players Handbook... except maybe the Half Orc and the Half Elf... both of which feel mechanically weak when stacked up against the rest.
Nifft 04-02-07, 08:40 PM	:heehee I'm sorry... that made me laugh. I admit, it's fiction and setting-specific. ;) Anyway, I agree with SilverFox. The bonuses hobgoblins receive is in no way stronger than any of the base races in the Players Handbook... except maybe the Half Orc and the Half Elf... both of which feel mechanically weak when stacked up against the rest. Thing is, they break one of the LA +0 Commandments: Thou Shalt Not Grant Ability Modifiers That Result In A Net Gain. Their +2 Dex, +2 Con are what really push them over the edge (technically). Cheers, -- N
betrayor 04-02-07, 08:51 PM	I admit, it's fiction and setting-specific. ;) Thing is, they break one of the LA +0 Commandments: Thou Shalt Not Grant Ability Modifiers That Result In A Net Gain. Their +2 Dex, +2 Con are what really push them over the edge (technically). Cheers, -- N Lesser Planettouched.
Nadaka 04-02-07, 11:50 PM	eh, personally I think that hobgoblins are actually slightly better than the standard races. While they may have few bonuses, they are some quite nice bonuses and no penalties. Are they worth a full +1 LA? no. But the only other race that gives them a run for their money are the halfling (in stealth), dwarf (in combat) and human (flexibility). If they can meet or beat 3 different races in their niche, they are a bit to strong. IMO, they should get a little extra boost to make them worth the +1 LA.
Vrykolas2k 04-03-07, 01:23 AM	I ignore the LA. Also, they are balanced out... role-playing isn't all combat, unlike most video games, so the penalties they take are a touch much in my opinion.
runestar 04-03-07, 01:33 AM	You could allow them at LA+0, just take away the feat they would normally get at 1st lv in exchange.:)
Finfreeze 04-03-07, 04:11 AM	Out of the standard goblinoids, hobgoblins are by far the least interesting. I mean, seriously, they can't compare to the awesomeness of bugbears: http://www.wizards.com/d20modern/images/ua_gallery/50023.jpg http://www.wizards.com/d20modern/images/ua_gallery/49974.jpg http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ss_gallery/49197.jpg ...and goblins at least have interesting mechanics (small size, good mobility for their size, riding ability) to call their own beyond ability score mods. Hobgoblins don't really have much beyond their ability scores. As a result, it's a bit of a pain to balance them.
AMGriffin 04-03-07, 09:50 AM	Sure, balancing hobgoblins is pretty easy. Here's the LA+1 Variant I use. Hobgoblins • +2 Dexterity +2 Constitution. Hobgoblins are athletic beings with a high degree of stamina. • Medium size humanoids with the goblinoid subtype. • 30 feet base land speed • Darkvision. Hobgoblins can see in the dark up to 60 feet. • +4 racial bonus on move silently checks. Like all goblinoids, hobgoblins have an uncanny aptitude for moving stealthily. • Arms training: living under a strict military type government, hobgoblins train in the use of a wide variety of weapons. All hobgoblins may select one exotic weapon to be proficient in. • Bonus feat: Endurance. • +2 racial bonus on craft checks related to weapons or armor. In hobgoblin society everybody is a soldier and is trained to prepare their own equipment. • +1 natural armor. Hobgoblins are thick skinned and durable. • Automatic Languages: Common, Goblin. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Infernal, Giant, Orc. A hobgoblin learns the languages of potential allies or enemies, but they will not learn elven under any circumstance, any hobgoblin caught speaking elven within the presence of a hobgoblin society will be punished. • Favored class: Fighter. Hobgoblins are disciplined soldiers. • LA: +1