Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lawlicron 06-06-07, 01:13 AM	So, people around here seem to want to talk alot about LA 0 large races. It got me thinking of a way to do it that won't break game balance in half. So heres what I've been using in my games and working on. Negus The Negus are an ancient ancestor of the couplings of dark elves and giants. They have been isolated in their tribal societies for many years but have recently opened up to the outside world. Personality: Negus are usually bound to their tribe and their tribe's interaction with other tribes. Negus delight in making deals and setting up pacts and usually don't break such agreements. They also tend to trust others a little too quickly but become fierce enemies when betrayed. Betrayal is the greatest sin to the Negus. Physical Description: The Negus resemble their dark elf ancestors in some ways but have lost many ties to them besides their ebony skin. The Negus are incredibly tall and slender, standing at 9 and a half to 10 feet tall but weighing only 250 to 300 pounds with females weighing slightly less and lacking a few inches in height. Their eyes vary from bright yellows and greens to deep crimson red. Negus do not posses the capability to grow hair. The Negus also sport bright white sharp looking teeth that naturally falls to a wide long grin, this feature makes the Negus look quite diabolical. Negus mature at the age of 40 and usually live a little past 115 years of age. Relations: To the Negus someones worth can only be determined by their actions and as such everyone starts off as a clean slate to a Negus. This tends to the Negus to be too trusting of strangers but when betrayed Negus often turn violent. Alignment: Negus tend to be lawful or neutral. Their personalities usually lead them to a neutral alignment concerning good and evil as well. Religion: The Negus usually pray to a nature god for a good return on what little they farm and their hunting. They also sometimes pray to The God of Slaughter during war times but see active worship of him during peace time and sacrifice to him as an act of war against other nearby tribes if not directly targeted anywhere. Language: Negus speak giant and common. Negus also usually learn elven, goblin, or an odd dialect of undercommon. They do not have their own language but posture and eye contact are incredibly important tools for them during conversation. A slumped posture is considered shameful in formal conversation but is perfectly exceptable in casual conversation. Names: Negus choose their own names upon reaching the age of 20 and are usually called by an abstract or joking nickname until that time. It is a right of passage for a Negus to choose his name and choose it wisely. Adventures: Negus usually adventure out of a sense to discover what their people do not know about the world and to bring back items and stories to tell to their people. Most adventuring Negus are rangers. Racial Traits Ability Adjustments: +2 Dex, -2 Con, -2 Int The Negus are intellectually hindered by their culture and are physically frail due to inbreeding within tribes, but very limber and swift. Type: Humanoid Size: Large Speed: Negus have a base land speed of 30 feet. Low-Light Vision: A Negus can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. They retain the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions. Ineffective Reach: Negus can attack at normal reach for a creature their size but only threaten out to an area of a creature one size category smaller. Skills: The Negus' giant toothy grin make them very intimidating giving them a +2 bonus to intimidate checks and a -4 penalty on diplomacy checks. Weapon Familiarity: A Negus may treat Bolas as martial weapons rather than exotic weapons. Languages: Automatic: Giant and Common, Bonus Languages: Elven, Undercommon, Goblin, Orc Favored Class: Ranger Just need a little more feedback on it. I feel its getting close though.
skywyze 06-06-07, 01:21 AM	A large size is such a huge advantage... I don't think it's very well balanced as is, though at least you're making a good attempt at it (unlike some people who shall remain nameless). I'd start by removing the dex bonus at least. Then take it from there. It's not *too* far from balanced imo, but it's not quite there. There's something missing.
Crimson_Concerto 06-06-07, 01:24 AM	Ineffective Reach: Although the Negus have a 10 ft reach, they are considered to have a 5 ft reach for the purposes of attacks of opportunity.Why not just say that they can attack at normal reach for a creature their size but only threaten out to an area of a creature one size smaller? Much simpler and more effective, though if you're really trying to make a La +0 large race, I would have just gone for a flat 5-foot reach.
Lawlicron 06-06-07, 01:31 AM	Why not just say that they can attack at normal reach for a creature their size but only threaten out to an area of a creature one size smaller? Much simpler and more effective, though if you're really trying to make a La +0 large race, I would have just gone for a flat 5-foot reach. I had thought about cutting their reach down to 5 ft. But I feel that it really robs the race of its only advantage, its reach. Besides its reach it really has nothing positive besides large weapon damage and its grapple/trip bonus for being large. Although I do like that wording alot better and might change it pretty soon.
acstrife 06-06-07, 09:38 AM	I had thought about cutting their reach down to 5 ft. But I feel that it really robs the race of its only advantage, its reach. Besides its reach it really has nothing positive besides large weapon damage and its grapple/trip bonus for being large. Although I do like that wording alot better and might change it pretty soon. Well its a very valliant attempt at a LA 0 Large race, however there is a good reason Large races are worth LA 1 or above. In the Savage species (i forget the page), 10 ft reach is a +1LA adjustment. Even though you have taken the threat for AOO away, the main use of it is the regular 10 ft reach on your opponent that people use 75% of the time. People take a large creature for the increased damage they do (especially if they play a monk), and the 10ft reach in regular combat. Also, I would suggest the speed be dropped to normal 30 like the rest of the races. Speed is an advantage too in tactical combat applications. Thats pretty much all the advice i can muster. Hope it helps.
RobbyPants 06-06-07, 10:40 AM	Ineffective Reach: Negus can attack at normal reach for a creature their size but only threaten out to an area of a creature one size category smaller. (Thank you Crimson_Concerto, with the way I had it previously I realized how gimped casting enlarge person on them was) Just out of curiosity: how does this work with reach weapons? Will it have a 20 foot reach, and threaten out to ten feet? Assuming that's how it works, a spiked chain will help work though the bulk of the restriction (as it can still threaten adjacent foes). I think the ineffective reach ability goes a long way to reducing the LA, but I don't know that it's enough. One other thing to keep in mind with large creatures, is that their damage potential increases by quite a bit (as their weapons are bigger). A large greatsword (or axe) will do 3d6 damage. Add in Monkey Grip, it increases to 4d6 (not a big jump, yet). Cast an enlarge person spell (the race is humanoid), and it jumps to 6d6 (and the reach jumps up to 15 feet, with a 10 foot threaten). Once you're using huge (or larger) weapons, the Monkey Grip feat really starts to pay off. Now, I'm not saying this will break the game (as it looks like the race has a relatively low Str score for a large race), but these are some things to keep in mind. Another thing is grappling. With improved grapple, a large creature can become a potent enemy; espescially against casters. I'd say it'd make a good candidate for the Reaping Mauler PrC, but I think it has Cleaver Wrestling as a prereq (which in turn has medium size or smaller as a prereq, IIRC).
Lawlicron 06-06-07, 01:15 PM	Thanks for your help everyone. But I'd like to keep the fact that they are large as the main appeal of the race. So I'm going to try to keep the reach and faster movement. I know this is all supposed to just be mechanically balanced but the flavor of the race doesn't lend itself to being slower than others of their size. Do you think giving them another negative to a stat would help balance it? I was thinking no on that one because most of the stats would just become dumps to make it an incredible spiked chain wielder or grapple. Its times like this I wish that stupid spiked chain wasn't core. And to RobbyPants, thats exactly how the ability works.
Stabby McStaberson 06-06-07, 02:04 PM	Why are they humanoid? It seems to me that it would make more sense for them to be giants.
Lawlicron 06-06-07, 02:12 PM	Why are they humanoid? It seems to me that it would make more sense for them to be giants. Well, I'd like to say the elven ancestry they have lends them to the humanoid type. But the real reason is I don't want to change their type to giant because of balance issues. It would mean spells like hold person wouldn't be able to effect them. And I don't want them to have an even further edge against spellcasters by not being able to be the target of hold person.
RobbyPants 06-06-07, 02:15 PM	Yeah, a non-humanoid type is a lot of what makes up the +1 LA for aasimars and tieflings. From what I understand, most of what balances the lesser versions is that they're considered Humanoide (planetouched) as opposed to Outsider (native). I agree in that you'd be hard pressed to keep these below LA +1 if they were Giant.
skywyze 06-06-07, 02:16 PM	Well, I'd like to say the elven ancestry they have lends them to the humanoid type. But the real reason is I don't want to change their type to giant because of balance issues. It would mean spells like hold person wouldn't be able to effect them. And I don't want them to have an even further edge against spellcasters by not being able to be the target of hold person.I have to agree. Humanoids are by far the most vulnerable type to play, followed by animals. There are just so many items and spells geared towards them as victims. Frankly, changing the type to anything BUT humanoid would immediately make the race stronger. As a side-note, I think that your idea of giving some kind of stat-penalty would indeed help balance the race. Maybe a penalty to strength and then keep the bonus to dex? That would help solve your problems with the spiked chain chain-tripping grapple-monsters.
AMGriffin 06-06-07, 02:18 PM	Speed: Negus have a base land speed of 40 feet. Nobody has mentioned this yet. You also lose points for making them elfy.
Lawlicron 06-06-07, 02:19 PM	I have to agree. Humanoids are by far the most vulnerable type to play, followed by animals. There are just so many items and spells geared towards them as victims. Frankly, changing the type to anything BUT humanoid would immediately make the race stronger. As a side-note, I think that your idea of giving some kind of stat-penalty would indeed help balance the race. Maybe a penalty to strength and then keep the bonus to dex? That would help solve your problems with the spiked chain chain-tripping grapple-monsters. I think thats just what I was looking for. Although I didn't want it to come down to a penalty to str because of their size. I realize more now that they are an archer type race. Changes coming soon. Edit: Also, would you all think a racial bonus to escape artist checks while squeezing would help with some of the movement difficulties a large creature would face or is that just another reasonable draw back of being large? Edit2: Sorry about the elfy-ness, I made the background up in an hour while cooking. Try to think of them as dark African hill giants instead of elves, thats kind of what I was going for.
Lawlicron 06-26-07, 05:31 PM	Hey, look what I bumped back up. I just need a few suggestions on changing this race for actual play. I did some play testing with it and the +2 Dex and -2 Str are awkward in actual play. They're as week as halflings but four times as big and as swift as elves but twice as big. So heres what I was thinking of doing with the racial stats. Ability Adjustments: -2 Con, -2 Cha The Negus are socially hindered by their culture and are physically frail due to inbreeding within tribes. Type:Humanoid Size: Large Speed: Negus have a base land speed of 40 feet. Darkvision: Negus have darkvision out to 60 ft. Ineffective Reach: Negus can attack at normal reach for a creature their size but only threaten out to an area of a creature one size category smaller. Skills: The Negus' giant toothy grin make them very intimidating giving them a +4 bonus to intimidate checks and a -4 penalty on diplomacy checks. The Negus' ebony skin also gives them a +4 bonus to hide checks in conditions of low-light. Weapon Proficiency: A Negus is proficient in the use of the Longbow and Shortbow, they are trained at an early age to use these weapons. Languages:Automatic: Giant. Bonus Languages: Common, Elven, Undercommon, Goblin, Orc Favored Class: Ranger
skywyze 06-26-07, 05:34 PM	That actually seems very balanced to me. They're humanoid, they have regular reach, penalty to con... I would allow this if I were the DM. :)
zae 06-26-07, 08:38 PM	Let's see, they're actually quite fragile and weak, if used for many character types they are asking for trouble. They'd make good archers, true, but not amazingly fantastic stupendous archers, just "good". They'd probably do well as monks, too, but again, nothing gamebreakingly so. Fighter types... maybe. The best thing about reach is threatening extra squares, for the attacks of opportunity whenever anyone tries to do anything. This has been taken away. Currently, it simply means they can help avoid provoking more often (and with a negative to Con, they'd want that). They make reasonable chain-trippers, but not so much as to be horrific, and it's unfair to judge a class, race or weapon based on one build. Otherwise the Fighter would rank as an amazing class. Casters... negative to Con. Ouch. Maybe clerics, perhaps. They don't gain that much out of the deal, though. Sure, they can cast touch spells without provoking, but is a Concentration check really that hard these days? Besides, clerics work best in full plate, these guys do not. You give a little, you get a little. Over all, I'd say it's a decent race. Not too good, but not falling behind, either.
Part-Human2 06-26-07, 09:04 PM	Another attempt at an LA +0 race. People really want Large for no LA it seems. I want Huge race, 0 LA so should I make a race with a bunch of negatives and then it's balanced? Where does it stop? There are no official +0 LA Large races, anyone want to guess why? Rhetoric questions aside, if we add +2 LA worth of templates to offset the negatives, will it result in a more powerful character than a non-templated official +2 LA Large race? I can imagine a Feral Draconic Negus beats a Half-Ogre anyday. There are absolutely no official Large or larger Humanoids. Being a humanoid has advantages (Enlarge anyone?).
MikeN 06-26-07, 10:10 PM	No way to make a balanced Large race. Spells that totally break the game when they're used AS WRITTEN, though, are perfectly fine and dandy. One of the many reasons why I wonder sometimes if the devs actually play their own game. 2nd edition, funky rules and all, was often simply balanced by the DM saying "no". But no, we have game-breaking stuff in the core rules, and if you have a concept you might want to try that's a little different and won't work without DM approval, it has to be approved by the people here and/or the devs...
skywyze 06-26-07, 10:29 PM	Being made by WotC does NOT mean it's balanced. In fact, many of the player-made things I see on these boards are better balanced than the official stuff. Probably because of all the feedback the creators get. So odds are, if the devs made a +0 LA large race, they'd mess that up too. As for why there aren't any +0 LA races, I can only suggest that it's because they haven't gotten around to it yet. Naysayers on these boards used to say that no medium-sized creature with natural flight should ever be +0 LA. And for a long time that was true. Then along came Raptorans, blowing that out of the water too. So yeah, I'm sure it's just because they haven't gotten around to it. Seeing as how this race gets none of the real advantages of large size and huge penalties to stats (particularly that Con penalty hurts), I'd go so far as to say that these guys are no more powerful than humans. Quite possibly LESS powerful, actually. They lose con, cha, strength, a feat and skill points, and what do they get in return? The ability to wield weapons one size category larger. I mean, they don't even get reach! Whoop de doo. Goliaths do the same, and they DON'T have those penalties.
Lawlicron 06-27-07, 12:15 AM	Ok real quick, they do get the reach, they just threaten as a creature a size category smaller. A feral draconic human beats a half-ogre any day. Sorry I'm trying to use stat based draw-backs instead of some of the lame stuff people have been trying to use to balance large guys. But I kind of already play tested them, they didn't do to well. All I'm looking to see is if you guys think their stat adjustments could be -2 con and -2 cha and still be reasonable.
Lawlicron 06-27-07, 12:26 AM	Another attempt at an LA +0 race. People really want Large for no LA it seems. I want Huge race, 0 LA so should I make a race with a bunch of negatives and then it's balanced? Where does it stop?. It stops at large btw.
zae 06-27-07, 03:50 AM	Rhetoric questions aside, if we add +2 LA worth of templates to offset the negatives, will it result in a more powerful character than a non-templated official +2 LA Large race? I can imagine a Feral Draconic Negus beats a Half-Ogre anyday. Take any LA +0 race that doesn't really suck - pick, I don't know, a halfling or a dwarf. Heck, for this niche, take an orc or half-orc, bad as they normally are. Add feral, one of the few decent templates actually worth its LA. Draconic? I don't have Draconomicon on me at the moment, but I'll assume it's another decent +1 template, and not a really lame "Why would you waste a level on this?" one. Already you've beaten the half-ogre. What's your point? This race didn't do that, a combination of things beat it, one of those being "The half-ogre really isn't a shining example of +2 at its finest".
Omega_Grey 06-27-07, 04:09 AM	Some changes I would make (I really like this race by the way) Drop the -2 to strength, it doesnt make much sense and hurts more then it probably should. I would avoid giving them a strength bonus, just keep it where it is. Drop the speed down to 30ft and leave it at that. And the biggest change I would make is give it the slight build trait found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a). That should help with your 'squeezing' issue. As I already said, I completely approve of this race even if you dont make any of these changes.
B28 06-27-07, 01:53 PM	Whenever I play a large sized race it is because I want to hit stuff really really hard. This race doesnt seem to be able to do that well. I think Negus are a little weak. Could be just me though.
Lawlicron 06-28-07, 01:15 AM	Some changes I would make (I really like this race by the way) Drop the -2 to strength, it doesnt make much sense and hurts more then it probably should. I would avoid giving them a strength bonus, just keep it where it is. Drop the speed down to 30ft and leave it at that. And the biggest change I would make is give it the slight build trait found here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a). That should help with your 'squeezing' issue. As I already said, I completely approve of this race even if you dont make any of these changes. Thank you, this is some of the advice I was looking for. I'm not so sure about the slight build, as squeezing hasn't been a major issue, but I'm afraid it might come up somewhere. But I'll try it out for now. Updating main post now time.
Omega_Grey 06-28-07, 01:34 AM	Quick, proof read your slight build and get rid of the mention of kobolds!!! Also I added in the suggestion for slight build because earlier you asked if you should give them a bonus to escape artist checks to squeeze places.
Lawlicron 06-28-07, 01:38 AM	Quick, proof read your slight build and get rid of the mention of kobolds!!! Also I added in the suggestion for slight build because earlier you asked if you should give them a bonus to escape artist checks to squeeze places. Sorry, missed one. I think the slight build fits the flavor really well and helps with their squeezing problems. Thanks for the suggestion.
Omega_Grey 06-28-07, 01:50 AM	Always happy to help when I can. Another change I would make is this. Get rid of the +4 to hide in areas of low light since slight build cancels out the large size penalty to hide checks anyway, and instead of giving them free proficiency in bows maybe give them a +1 to hit with all non cross bows (so that way they can gain a bonus even if they pick a class that gives them proficiency anyway). But I probably wouldnt do this if I also gave them a +2 to dexterity as well, then again the Halfling does it with thrown weapons so I guess it wouldnt be too unbalanced. Also, they can probably have that +2 dexterity and no penalty to strength, as it isnt going to break the design that insanely. Also you need to give something for players to look at and and make up their minds based on a stat build fairly quickly. Then again they also look fine as are, just if you feel like you still have doubts about the -2 Str and +2 Dex then you should probably keep those in there for now.
Lawlicron 06-28-07, 01:59 AM	Well, the only reason I don't have them at +2 Dex, -2 Con, and -2 Cha is so people won't immediately just shout "Bah-roken!". Large has a lot of benefits that I'm trying to balance out overall. The -2 Str +2 Dex thing might work well if they were medium sized but it just felt a little awkward in play. I'd like to keep the +2 Dex but it kind of cancels out their -1 AC for being large and -1 attack on ranged attacks. The race flavor wise is kind of moving away from the whole archer thing, so I was considering ditching the bows thing and maybe giving them something less powerful. Maybe bolas (I know bolas are exotic and technically that is worth a feat but really they suck, come on) and kukris instead. I'll have to look at some things and give it some more consideration.
Omega_Grey 06-28-07, 02:14 AM	Honestly when I first saw what you were trying to do with these guys I thought to myself that they were lesser versions of the Forest Giant from MM2, and that was okay with me. But if you are moving away from archers then thats cool, but I dont think adding in a stat to counter act the one point of AC is going to immediately be considered 'broken' with that -2 to Con, but thats just my opinion.
Lawlicron 06-28-07, 02:25 AM	Maybe the stats would balance a lot better with the large bonuses as +2 Dex, -2 Con, and -2 Int. That way I'm not just throwing another race that dumps Cha, just because its the red-headed step child of stats, onto these boards. Then I should probably add common to their auto languages. It makes them worse at being skill monkeys but I think that might be ok.
Omega_Grey 06-28-07, 02:31 AM	That works very well I think. I might just try to talk a friend into DMing a one shot adventure to test the Negus out, and if it goes well you might even get a cookie.
Lawlicron 06-28-07, 02:33 AM	Ok then, changes coming soon. I think I'll toss the bow things while I'm at it too. I'd rather they have more ineffective weapons than the bows anyway.
Omega_Grey 06-28-07, 09:08 AM	Racial Traits Ability Adjustments: +2 Dex, -2 Con, -2 Int The Negus are intellectually hindered by their culture and are physically frail due to inbreeding within tribes, but very limber and swift. Type:Humanoid Size: Large Speed: Negus have a base land speed of 30 feet. Darkvision: Negus have darkvision out to 60 ft. Ineffective Reach: Negus can attack at normal reach for a creature their size but only threaten out to an area of a creature one size category smaller. Skills: The Negus' giant toothy grin make them very intimidating giving them a +4 bonus to intimidate checks and a -4 penalty on diplomacy checks. Weapon Proficiency: A Negus is proficient in the use of the Kukri and Bolas, these are traditional hunting weapons of the Negus and all Negus are taught to use them at a young age. Slight Build: The physical stature of the Negus lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category smaller. Whenever a Negus is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as Hide), the Negus is treated as one size smaller if doing so is advantageous to the character. A Negus is also considered to be one size smaller when "squeezing" through a restrictive space. A Negus can use weapons designed for a creature one size smaller without penalty. However, the space and reach of a Negus remain those of a creature of their actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject's size category. Languages: Automatic: Giant and Common, Bonus Languages: Elven, Undercommon, Goblin, Orc Favored Class: Ranger Looking good as is, I'm a little unsure about the bolas thing. It would be a total of a +4 if you were throwing them at a medium guy and you net a +8 tripping a small guy. But I don't think people will take advantage of the bolas very much anyway. They look good to me, I wouldnt worry too much about the bolas thing, there is always going to be some sort of bonus that looks good on paper, but in practice it isnt that big of a deal. If we think about it, the bolas makes a trip attack which is an opposed ability check. You get a +4 for being large and whatever your abilities are, sounds good. But compare that to the bonuses that other creatures get at higher levels and it doesnt really matter that much. Unless you fight humanoids a lot more often then I do in most of my campaigns (which is still quite a bit). So yeah, I wouldnt worry about it
YabaTheWhat 06-28-07, 09:44 AM	I like the concept here, so I'm going to give it a proper evaluation. Racial Traits Ability Adjustments: +2 Dex, -2 Con, -2 Int [+4-3-3 = -2 FP] Type:Humanoid [0 FP] Size: Large [0 FP (see below)] Speed: Negus have a base land speed of 30 feet. [-4 FP (-10 ft adjustment)] Darkvision: Negus have darkvision out to 60 ft. [3 FP] Ineffective Reach: Negus can attack at normal reach for a creature their size but only threaten out to an area of a creature one size category smaller. [13 FP (see below)] Skills: The Negus' giant toothy grin make them very intimidating giving them a +4 bonus to intimidate checks and a -4 penalty on diplomacy checks. [+2-1 = 1 FP] Weapon Proficiency: A Negus is proficient in the use of the Kukri and Bolas, these are traditional hunting weapons of the Negus and all Negus are taught to use them at a young age. [2*2 = 4 FP (see below)] Slight Build: The physical stature of the Negus lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category smaller. Whenever a Negus is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as Hide), the Negus is treated as one size smaller if doing so is advantageous to the character. A Negus is also considered to be one size smaller when "squeezing" through a restrictive space. A Negus can use weapons designed for a creature one size smaller without penalty. However, the space and reach of a Negus remain those of a creature of their actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject's size category. [5 FP (see below)] Languages: Automatic: Giant and Common, Bonus Languages: Elven, Undercommon, Goblin, Orc Favored Class: Ranger Total = 20 FP, LA+1 underpowered. Size without reach is self-balancing. It offers increased weapon size and movement rate, with decreased attack and armor class, along with several other circumstancial bonuses and penalties. While awarding these bonuses and penalties individually would result in an overall positive FP value, the size change is acquired as a package. This is why the "normal" movement rate of 30 ft has a negative value; it takes away one of the advantages of large size. Overall, half the value of reach comes from offensive maneuvers, while the other half comes from defensive maneuvers, such as attacks of opportunity. A ten-foot reach really helps for special attacks like Whirlwind, and lets the Negus hit opponents without entering those creatures' threatened areas, so they'll be very handy against other large-sized creatures. (They can reach over a poorly-planned defensive wall, but any smart opponents would keep a larger gap between the casters and the front line anyway, in case of area spells.) What they don't get is the defensive perimeter; opponents can still move in to hit a Negus, and casters can take a five-foot step out of AoO range. Exotic weapon proficiencies are worth 2 FP each. My suggestion would be to change these to weapon familiarity (making the weapons martial instead of exotic), as the value is much lower than an automatic proficiency. Just because a weapon has a cultural significance doesn't mean every single person of that race needs to learn its use. Slight build offers a number of bonuses, but most of them are either minor or circumstancial (or both). Some of the versatility options offered by slight build, such as the use of medium-sized weapons, would actually be downgrades under most circumstances. In order to use a smaller weapon, the Negus effectively gives up 1d6 damage (3d6 vs 2d6/1d12 on greatsword/greataxe), so they would only use a medium weapon if either {a} they do not have a suitable large-sized weapon at all, or {b} they acquired a medium-sized weapon which was significantly more powerful than any large-sized weapon in their possession.
Sunic_Flames 06-28-07, 10:42 AM	Where can I find the rating system in full detail?
Omega_Grey 06-28-07, 11:10 AM	Check his spoiler tag.
Steevo 06-28-07, 11:57 AM	Maybe it's just me, but I don't see much point in playing a large size creature if most of the normal benefits for being size large have been gimped. Personally, I'd start such a race with something like this: Abilities: -2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Cha Base Speed: 30 ft Size/Reach: Large/10 ft Skills: +2 Intimidate, -4 Diplomacy Languages: What you said. Favoured Class: Ranger. This is just quick and dirty, mind you. Personally I don't mind paying a level adjustment for the normal (and appreciable) benefits of being size large.
Lawlicron 06-28-07, 12:56 PM	Ok so I'm getting closer to where I should be for LA +0. Thank you YabaTheWhat, I really needed the FP breakdown. I completely forgot about weapon familiarity. But if I give them weapon familiarity with Bolas and Kukris, do the kukris become simple? Because they are already martial. I'll probably also end up taking away Slight Build for now to try and further balance it. And the diplomacy to intimidate trade I'll lessen to +2/-4. Then I'll give it another go in playtesting. And a side-note would you think low-light or improved low-light would be better balancing and flavor wise (They don't really live underground just hunt at night)?
Lawlicron 06-29-07, 01:55 AM	Bump (At almost 2 in the morning) and YabaTheWhat, have you done a breakdown of the Core Races or races from other campaign settings, like Eberron? I'd like to see how they do FP wise against one another. Edit: Oh never mind, its in your sig.
YabaTheWhat 06-29-07, 07:57 AM	Ok so I'm getting closer to where I should be for LA +0. Thank you YabaTheWhat, I really needed the FP breakdown.You're welcome. I completely forgot about weapon familiarity. But if I give them weapon familiarity with Bolas and Kukris, do the kukris become simple? Because they are already martial. I thought they were exotic, and certain races received them as martial. But the answer to your question is yes, a martial weapon becomes simple for a race with weapon familiarity in that weapon. And a side-note would you think low-light or improved low-light would be better balancing and flavor wise (They don't really live underground just hunt at night)? Most nocturnal hunters have low-light vision. Just look at the owl for reference. Bump (At almost 2 in the morning) and YabaTheWhat, have you done a breakdown of the Core Races or races from other campaign settings, like Eberron? I'd like to see how they do FP wise against one another. Edit: Oh never mind, its in your sig. Look on page 4 for the core races. (The original evaluations on page 1 are outdated.) A few others of note: >> Raptoran is LA+0 overpowered at 18 FP >> Goliaths, Catfolk, and Whsiper Gnomes are all LA+1 balanced with 31-34 FP >> Hobgoblins are LA+0 balanced >> Lesser planetouched are still LA+1 Note that the lesser aasimar gets better benefits than the hobgoblin, proving that the hobgoblin can't be LA+1 while the lesser aasimar is LA+0.
Kursk 06-29-07, 11:49 AM	Playing a large 9'-10' can be very problematic as most dungeons (unless excavated by those types of races) don't have that high of ceilings. Natural caves being an exception. This makes for substantial combat penalties for these types of characters.
Lawlicron 07-01-07, 09:45 PM	Playing a large 9'-10' can be very problematic as most dungeons (unless excavated by those types of races) don't have that high of ceilings. Natural caves being an exception. This makes for substantial combat penalties for these types of characters. I guess thats one of the drawbacks of being large. And what does everyone think about dropping the darkvision and adding low-light? Personally I think it will suite them better. YabaTheWhat's example of owls having low-light makes me think it will be more appropriate.
Omega_Grey 07-02-07, 05:58 AM	I think the darkvision/low-light vision swap is a good idea as well.
Lawlicron 07-02-07, 10:06 AM	Ok, swapped Darkvision for Low-Light vision. I think this is getting to be about right now. Any thoughts from any one else?
Lawlicron 07-02-07, 09:45 PM	/Bump I think I'm pretty closed to balanced now. I'd like to hear a few more opinions on it though.