Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Kazuhiro 09-23-07, 04:30 PM	In my campaign, when you die, you will lose one level beyond what you normally would, and will come back as a Aasimar/Tiefling/Zenythri/Chaond. The problem is that Zenythri and Chaond suck. For the same +1 LA that represents ability score bonuses, resistances, and the spell-like ability to cast Daylight for Aasimar, Zenrythi and Chaond get the spell-like ability to cast Shatter and True Strike. Not only that, but Zenrythi's favored class is Monk. What do I do now? D: Oh, and as a side question: The "losing one level more" and therefore paying the LA up front is supposed to balance the fact that they get Zenythri/Chaond/Aasimar/Tiefling on top of their previous racial bonuses. Does this overpower my characters? If it does, what can I do?
R4za 09-23-07, 04:56 PM	Shatter and True Strike aren't bad spell likes to have at all. If it's about the level of the spell compared to daylight, adjust the number of times they can use it per day to account for the lower level. Favored Class: Monk is easily remidied; just don't use multiclass xp penalties in your game. They're silly anyway, imo. The ability scores I don't know about though, as I dont know what exactly they are, not knowing the Chaond and Zenythri racial statistics. Adding a +2 here or there where it makes sense shouldn't be difficult though? And it shouldn't overpower anyone much. It could be slightly advantagous on the long term, but it probably makes them weaker at the short term due to losing another level (especially for lower level characters).
Rustmonster 09-23-07, 09:48 PM	The problem is that Zenythri and Chaond suck. For the same +1 LA that represents ability score bonuses, resistances, and the spell-like ability to cast Daylight for Aasimar, Zenrythi and Chaond get the spell-like ability to cast Shatter and True Strike. Not only that, but Zenrythi's favored class is Monk. True strike is somehow not a good thing? That's an awesome ability. Then again, I have no idea what those things are (Zenythri and Chaond), so i have no idea how they compare to Teifling and Aasimar. And how is favoured class: Monk a bad thing?
yrogerg 09-23-07, 10:15 PM	Shatter and True Strike aren't bad spell likes to have at all. If it's about the level of the spell compared to daylight, adjust the number of times they can use it per day to account for the lower level. Exactly. Daylight is a niche 3rd level spell, and Shatter and True Strike are "must-have" 1st and 2nd level spells. Honestly, I'd take the latter two over Daylight any day.
Wolfvyn 09-23-07, 10:27 PM	shatter is second level actually, but it is an extremely useful spell. Anyway are shatter and true strike the only things those two races get? What about racial skill check bonuses? resistances of other types beside elemental, an example would be the stability trait dwarves have that give them bonuses against trips, bullrushes and overuns? Do they get darkvision or low light vision? It's not just all about racial ability mods and spell like abilities.
MagusBlack 09-23-07, 11:38 PM	Don’t you mean that the aasimar and tiefling suck in comparison? Zenthryi do have do have monk as a favored class, but they also get a +2 to all stats that are important to a monk (Strength, Dexterity, and Wisdom) with a -2 to Charisma as payment. Combat types in general benefit from that: +1 to hit/damage in melee (and sometimes ranged); +1 to AC/Ref Save; +1 to Will Saves. And of course a +1 to all skills applied, and -1 charisma skills that are few for martial characters. True Strike can allow a ECL 2 Fighter1, with far shot, to hit someone with a composite longbow from 1485ft (9 range increment) and STILL a gets a +2 to his to his ranged attack bonus. True Strike is far better than Daylight/Darkness. The Charond as a +4 to Dexterity and +2 Constitution with the same penalty to charisma. What CANT you do with that?
RobbyPants 09-24-07, 11:24 AM	In my campaign, when you die, you will lose one level beyond what you normally would, and will come back as a Aasimar/Tiefling/Zenythri/Chaond. The problem is that Zenythri and Chaond suck. For the same +1 LA that represents ability score bonuses, resistances, and the spell-like ability to cast Daylight for Aasimar, Zenrythi and Chaond get the spell-like ability to cast Shatter and True Strike. Not only that, but Zenrythi's favored class is Monk. What do I do now? D: Oh, and as a side question: The "losing one level more" and therefore paying the LA up front is supposed to balance the fact that they get Zenythri/Chaond/Aasimar/Tiefling on top of their previous racial bonuses. Does this overpower my characters? If it does, what can I do? Well, if you wanted a good "flavor" spell to replace True Strike that is 2nd level and "lawful", consider Zone of Truth. It's mostly a flavor change (IMO), but it might be what you're looking for. Also, in terms of power level, I feel that the Aasimar and Tiefling themselves are a somewhat weak LA+1, let along with how the Chaond and Zenythri compare. In my games, I've removed the -2 Cha penalty from Tieflings (both for flavor and mechanical reasons), otherwise treating them as-is. I have left the Aasimar as-is. You could consider modifying the stats on the Chaond and Zenythri to be two +2's with no penalties (I don't remember their exact stats, and maybe this is what they are already). BTW, interesting campaign idea. It's different, but I like the flavor. Out of curiosity, how do you handle issues of favored class/multiclassing if the race change causes problems?
Naderion 09-24-07, 12:54 PM	I would actually make the -2 Cha of the tiefling a +2. It fits the concept and aasimars have +2 on two abilities too.
gino 09-24-07, 01:50 PM	Huh... What exactly are Zenythri and Chaonds, please?
Naderion 09-24-07, 01:57 PM	They are like aasimars or tieflings, only from lawful or chaotic heiritage.
gino 09-24-07, 03:25 PM	And what do they look like? Are there pictures? Also where can they be found? Thanks in advance :D
Empirate 09-25-07, 09:06 AM	They are in MM2. Zenythri look much like humans, but with a purple tint to their complexion, and pretty much spectacularly symmetric (read: good-looking, but unsettling). They strive for perfection in all undertakings and are a little unimaginative most of the time. Chaonds are humanoid, but resemble Slaads, which is to say, toads. They're quite hideous, but move with unsettling quickness and intent. They're undisciplined and rowdy, but quite capable of looking after themselves (first) and others (a far second).
1 ton ghost 09-25-07, 12:48 PM	they're basically the dyanamic opposites planetouched law vs. chaos. assimar and tieflings rarely seen 2nd cousins. not the most compelling races to be sure of, and though i know everyone is looking for raw punch represented in ability stats or clearly defined numerical advantages/disadvantages, most ppl overlook the Outsider aspect. i know it doesn't come up alot, but you might be sweating bullets when a save or die hits you and you realize it's for humanoids and so on...to which they're not. not a great bonus for a race, but a bonus nonetheless. i give them the same advice i give undead, drow, any socially handicapped race: disguise. if they don't know you're an outsider, that's a huge advantage. let them burn a big gun on you and waste that spell and whole round...
Kazuhiro 10-03-07, 02:39 AM	Don’t you mean that the aasimar and tiefling suck in comparison? Zenthryi do have do have monk as a favored class, but they also get a +2 to all stats that are important to a monk (Strength, Dexterity, and Wisdom) with a -2 to Charisma as payment. Combat types in general benefit from that: +1 to hit/damage in melee (and sometimes ranged); +1 to AC/Ref Save; +1 to Will Saves. And of course a +1 to all skills applied, and -1 charisma skills that are few for martial characters. True Strike can allow a ECL 2 Fighter1, with far shot, to hit someone with a composite longbow from 1485ft (9 range increment) and STILL a gets a +2 to his to his ranged attack bonus. True Strike is far better than Daylight/Darkness. The Charond as a +4 to Dexterity and +2 Constitution with the same penalty to charisma. What CANT you do with that?I didn't see these in the MM2. Perhaps this is because the MM2 doesn't give the same detailed explanation in the "Chaond Characters" section as the core 3.5 MM. Are you sure about this? What exactly are you basing this on?
Arscura 10-03-07, 07:33 AM	He basing it upon MM2 under Planetouched. Just as were you can find the Aasimar and Tiefling under Planetouched in MM. It is correct what he says