Post/Author/DateTime	Post
mkill 12-03-06, 11:14 AM	A race I created. Synopsis: Humans with a Succubus heritage, and several racial abilties tied to it. They can become more powerful and demon-like with racial feats. The Allurin http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/fc1_gallery/100417.jpg Allurin Perfect cheekbones, perfect hair, tall, slim, beautiful... this is the average-looking allurin. Humanoids of mostly human descent, a special blood runs in their veins. The blood of succubi and incubi. Of how they came to be, two legends exist. One romantic, one frightening. The romantic tale tells of Tylia, a succubus who fell in love with a human. She defied the lords of hell, but was stripped of her demonic powers and gave birth to his children. The other tale tells of incubi that visit maidens at night and leave demonic seed in their womb, to poison humanity with their evil heritage. Both legends may be true, or none... Personality: Allurins blend into human society in a way only Changelings can match, but they still stick out. Their striking and a tad exotic looks make them the center of attention. Many of them enjoy it and become famed muses and performers. Others, aware of their dark heritage, try to hide their faces and even scar themselves, only to be left alone. Physical Description: As human, but all Allurin share an attractive physique, with almost exaggerated features. Women have curvacious bust and hips, and men have athletic bodies and impressive equipment. While some try to hide it, most Allurin stress this even more by wearing tight-fit and revealing clothing. Many have unusual features like deeply violet eyes or an almost pink natural hair color, or naturally red nails. Relations: Allurins that hide their true identity share the same racial relations as humans. Even then they tend to be shunned by elves, who see themselves as the epitome of beauty and perfection. Orc see Allurin women as prized slaves. The sturdy, down-to-earth dwarves shun them for their touch of the supernatural. If Allurin are found out to be what they are, they are often driven away, or worse. Only in the company of other outcasts, such as other half-races and planetouched, they find kindred souls. Alignment: Allurin can have any alignment, but their taint of evil (see below) makes it difficult for them to actually convince people of their good intentions. Thus being the case, few are truly neutral, and most tend towards any one of the extremes. Allurin lands and society: Allurin have no home region as such, and can be found in any human region. They are more likely to be encountered in lands that have a tradition of demon summoning or being haunted by demons. There numbers are few, so any community with a majority of Allurin would be a small hamlet of outcasts rather than a city. Most Allurin prefer to blend in in a big city, earning their coin in the shady parts, or joining bands of traveling performers. Religion: Religion is a difficult topic for Allurin, as clerics have the best tools of telling a persons true nature. Paladins, who will always detect evil in any Allurin, have a history of hunting and persecuting them for their blood, not for what they are. A select few Allurin themselves have taken up the torch of light and fight evil to redeem themselves, and even battle their own kin. Evil cults also seek out the Allurin, either as followers or as powerful blood sacrifices, and some Allurin embrace their dark side fully and serve the lords of the Abyss. They work as spies and recruiters on the material plane. Most Allurin feel uncomfortable around any kind of organized religion and prefer to keep their spiritual beliefs to themselves and avoid organized religion as far as possible. Language: Most allurin speak whatever language is spoken in their home region. They tend to have a natural grasp of abyssal. Names: Any that is usual in their home region. Allurin that work as performers usually have stage names. Adventurers: As their heritage will never allow them to have a quiet, undisturbed life, almost every Allurin is an adventurer, even though not all enjoy this or are successful at it. From their human half, Allurin inherited the versatility, and they take a variety of careers. Bard, sorcerer, hexblade, rogue and beguiler are the most common. While there are a select few very determined Allurin paladins, their taint of evil makes them outcasts within their faith.
mkill 12-03-06, 11:15 AM	Racial traits (LA +0 version) Medium size Humanoid (planetouched, evil). As per planetouched subtype, Allurin are susceptible to spells that target outsiders such as banishment. As per evil subtype, Allurin can have any alignment, but regardless of their individual alignment they are affected by spells and effects that depend on alignment as if they were evil. They also suffer effects according to their actual alignment. They overcome damage reduction as if their natural weapons and any weapons they wield were evil-aligned. Allurin themselves refer to this as the Taint of Evil. base land speed 30 ft. Charisma +2. Allurin have naturally attractive physiques and a vibrant personality. +2 to Charisma checks and Charisma-based skill checks against those who are sexually attracted to their race and gender +2 to saves against poison electricity resistance 5 Darkvision 60 ft. (Ex): Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and Allurin can function just fine with no light at all. Bonus feat: You may select one bonus feat from the Allurin racial feat list (see below) Susceptibility to cold iron (Su): If an Allurin takes damage from a cold iron weapon, he takes one point of strength damage for each 5 full points of damage from the attack. He may take up to three points of ability damage with one hit. There is no saving throw. They also take this damage from creatures who are able to overcome DR / cold iron. Allurin suffer a -2 penalty to their attack rolls with weapons made of cold iron. Automatic Languages: Common. Bonus languages: Abyssal, and any spoken in the region of origin. Favored Class: Sorcerer. Many Allurin develop some degree of sorcerous ability during their life, while few follow that path exclusively. Those who do wield considerable power. Level Adjustment: +0 - - - Both legends give an explanation for the Taint of Evil (in game terms: the evil subtype), although a conflicting one... The Succubus legend tells of an Abyss lord cursing the traitoress to prove that she and her spawn will forever belong to him. The Incubus legend says that the Taint of Evil is a mark by the gods, a call for all powers of good to find these creatures and exterminate them to prevent the dark blood from contaminating humanity. The Taint of Evil is indeed hard to get rid of, and there is no known case where it was successful. In one case it stuck to the Allurin even after a wish spell to change his race... For Heritage feats (Planar Handbook, PHB II), they may only take fiendish or infernal heritage (no celestial or draconic). - - - - Due to popular demand, I have also included a LA +1 version. It has the outsider type instead of humanoid, damage reduction and a spell-like ability. Racial traits (LA +1 version) Medium size Outsider (native, evil). As per outsider type, Allurin are proficient with all simple and martial weapons and any weapons. As native outsiders, they can be raised, reincarnated, or resurrected just as other living creatures can be, and they need to eat and sleep. As per evil subtype, Allurin can have any alignment, but regardless of their individual alignment they are affected by spells and effects that depend on alignment as if they were evil. They also suffer effects according to their actual alignment. They overcome damage reduction as if their natural weapons and any weapons they wield were evil-aligned. Allurin themselves refer to this as the Taint of Evil. base land speed 30 ft. Charisma +2. Allurin have naturally attractive physiques and a vibrant personality. +2 to Charisma checks and Charisma-based skill checks against those who are sexually attracted to their race and gender +2 to saves against poison electricity resistance 5 Darkvision 60 ft. (Ex): Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and Allurin can function just fine with no light at all. Damage reduction 2 / cold iron or good. Bonus feat: You gain a bonus feat from the Allurin bonus feat list (see next post). Spell-like ability: 1/day Charm Person as a sorcerer of their character level Susceptibility to cold iron (Su): If an Allurin takes damage from a cold iron weapon, he takes one point of strength damage for each 5 full points of damage from the attack. He may take up to three points of ability damage with one hit. There is no saving throw. They also take this damage from creatures who are able to overcome DR / cold iron. Allurin suffer a -2 penalty to their attack rolls with weapons made of cold iron. Automatic Languages: Common. Bonus languages: Abyssal, and any spoken in the region of origin. Favored Class: Sorcerer. Many Allurin develop some degree of sorcerous ability during their life, while few follow that path exclusively. Those who do wield considerable power. Level Adjustment: +1
mkill 12-03-06, 11:38 AM	Allurin Feats ALLURIN TELEPATH [Allurin] You have inherited the telepathic ability of your demonic side. Prerequisite: Allurin, Allurin Tongue, one other Allurin feat Benefit: You can communicate telepathically with one creature within 50 ft. This is a supernatural ability. ALLURIN TONGUE [Allurin] Like your fiendish ancestor, you speak the universal language of seduction. Prerequisite: Allurin Benefit: You can use the Tongues spell as a spell-like ability (cast as a Sorcerer of your character level) once per day per Allurin feat that you have. DRAINING KISS [Allurin] Your kiss can weaken others. Prerequisite: Allurin, fortitude base save 2+ Benefit: You can weaken another person with a kiss. The victim must succeed at a fortitude save against 10 + half your character level + Cha bonus or take 2 points of Constitution damage. This ability is usable once per round. The target of the kiss must be willing, or the Allurin must succeed at a touch attack during a grapple. This is a supernatural ability. FIEND FORM [Allurin] You can change your form into one that closer resembles your Succubus heritage. Prerequisite: Allurin Benefit: At will, as a standard action, you can Change Shape (Su) into a fiend form (and back). In Fiend Form you retain your racial abilities and gain claws (1d6 slashing damage), small non-functional wings, and a +2 natural armor bonus. The fiend-form is clearly nonhuman, and can only be disguised at a -5 penalty. FUNCTIONAL WINGS [Allurin] You can use your wings to fly. Prerequisite: Allurin, Fiend Form, reflex base save 3+ Benefit: In fiend form, you gain 50 ft. fly speed with average maneuverability. IMMUNITY TO COLD IRON [Allurin] By painfully building resistance, you no longer suffer from contact with cold iron. Prerequisite: Allurin, base fortitude save 3+ Benefit: You don't have the Cold Iron Susceptibility of your race. IMPROVED DEMONIC RESISTANCE [Allurin] The demon blood in you strengthened your resistance. Prerequisite: Allurin or Fiendish Heritage Benefit: You gain an additional 2 points of electricity resistance for each Allurin feat that you have. You also gain an additional +2 to fortitude saves against poison, but only once. IMPROVED FIENDISH SKIN [Allurin] Your fiendish form has a stronger resistance against the elements. Prerequisite: Allurin, Fiend Form Benefit: In fiend form, you gain 1 point of acid, cold and fire resistance and 1 point of damage reduction / cold iron or good for each Allurin feat that you have. IMPROVED DRAINING KISS [Allurin] Your poison kiss is stronger. Prerequisite: Allurin, Draining Kiss, one other Allurin feat, base fortitude save 3+ Benefit: Your Poison kiss causes 1d4+1 Constitution damage, save for half. The save DC is raised by 2. MUTILATED [Allurin] Your body and face was scarred and your beauty eternally destroyed. It could be that you couldn't stand your own beauty anymore, or a jealous rival or frightened mob did this to you. Or you were punished by an infernal master. Prerequisite: Allurin Benefit: You lose your racial bonus to Charisma-based skills. Instead, you have Frightful Presence (Ex) with a save DC equal to 10 + half your character level + Cha bonus. SUCCUBUS BLOOD [Allurin] The Succubus heritage is strong in you and increases your sorcery might. Prerequisite: Ability to cast arcane or divine spells without preparation; Allurin or Fiendish Heritage Benefit: Select one of your spontaneous casting classes. Add the following spells to the list of your spells known and your class spell list, at the level indicated in brackets. detect good (1st) detect thoughts (2nd) suggestion (3rd) tongues (3rd) charm monster (4th) STRONGER SUCCUBUS BLOOD [Allurin] The Succubus heritage is even stronger in you. Prerequisite: Ability to cast arcane or divine spells without preparation; Allurin or Fiendish Heritage; Succubus blood Benefit: As the Succubus Blood feat, add the following spells: mass suggestion (6th) ethereal jaunt (7th) greater teleport (7th) monster summoning VIII (vrock only, 8th) TRUE SUCCUBUS KISS [Allurin] You can drain energy with a kiss, like a true succubus. Prerequisite: Allurin, Draining Kiss, Improved Poison Kiss, 2 other Allurin feats, Fortitude base save 4+. Benefit: Your kiss is powerful like that of a true Succubus. Instead of doing Constitution damage, your kiss can drain energy (Su) to bestow one negative level (DC 10 + half level + Cha to remove it), and you can plant a Suggestion (Su) to accept another kiss (Will save DC 10 + half level + Cha). Allurin Paragon http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/FC2_Gallery/101457.jpg Calyxis, Allurin Paragon (with the Fiend Form and Fuctional Wings feats) Those Allurin who give up posing as humans and living a covered life in their society, freely embrace their fiendish heritage and seek to become full-powered demons, become Allurin Paragons. Adventures: Allurin Paragons adventure to discover more about their race's heritage and the legends that surround it. They seek infernal power and the attraction of infernal beings. They always seek means to discover and travel the planes. Characteristics: Allurin Paragons have an even stronger physical attraction on the other sex, and they freely use this to satisfy their whims and lusts and to gain power. Alignment: While normal Allurin can be of any alignment, to be a true Paragon it is necessary to be close to the infernal heritage. Allurin Paragons must be either chaotic or evil, and many are both. Religion: Allurin Paragons forgo mortal religions to worship the most powerful chaotic evil beings of the Abyss. Background: Allurin have as diverse backgrounds as their race, but at one or the other point they decide to leave their often mundane upbringing behind and become a free denizen of the planes, unbound by the shackles of human society. Races: Allurin Paragons prefer the company of any race. In fact, many seek out exotic individuals for new sexual experiences. Other classes: Anybody who is willing to accept the free-wheeling and unpredictable nature of an Allurin paragon and join him on his travels to dangerous fiendish realms is a welcome companion, regardless of training and abilities. Level BAB Fort Ref Will Special Spells per day 1 +0 +0 +0 +2 Abyssal Attraction, Abyssal Tongue - 2 +1 +0 +0 +3 Racial bonus feat +1 spellcaster level 3 +2 +0 +0 +3 ability boost (Cha +2) +1 spellcaster level Abilities Alignment: Must be chaotic or evil or both Hit die: d8 Class skills: The Allurin paragon's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Search (Int), Spellcraft (Int), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Use Rope (Dex) Skill points at each level: 4 + Int modifier (x4 at first level) Class features Weapon and Armor proficiency: Allurin Paragons are proficient with all simple weapons, the whip, light armors, and no shields. Abyssal Attraction: With each level, the Allurins bonus to Charisma-based skills because of his sexual attractiveness is increased by +1, up to +5 at 3rd level. Abyssal Tongue: Allurin Paragons gain Abyssal as a bonus language if they don't already speak it. Spells per Day At 2nd and 3rd level, an Allurin paragon gains new spells per day as if she had also gained a level in sorcerer, any other spontaneous arcane spellcaster class such as bard or beguiler, as a warlock, or as a cleric of a demon cult. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (bonus metamagic feats, and so on). This essentially means that she adds the level of Allurin paragon to her level in Sorcerer (or other class), then determines spells per day and caster level accordingly. If an Allurin paragon has no levels in any appropriate spellcaster class, this class feature has no effect, but they may select another racial bonus feat at 3rd level. Bonus feat: The Allurin paragon may select a bonus feat from the Allurin racial feat list. She must meet all prerequisites for the feat. Ability Boost (Ex): At 3rd level, an Allurin paragon's Charisma score increases by 2 points.
MasterMalaki 12-03-06, 12:00 PM	I like this concept. Very imaginative and well thought out. What level adjustment do they have or do you know yet? Would you mind if I reposted this (or a slightly toned down version of this on my Yahoo site)?
gino 12-03-06, 12:12 PM	I like it, but there is no cap as regards the 'kiss' ability. How many times per day? (personally i would go with 'the target is weakened) And no text to mention that it could be a touch attack after a successful grapple. cheers, Gino
mkill 12-03-06, 12:16 PM	What level adjustment do they have or do you know yet? LA +0. Note that they have 3 weaknesses: Evil Taint, Cold Iron, and they must Change Shape to use some of their abilities. Would you mind if I reposted this (or a slightly toned down version of this on my Yahoo site)? It's OGL material, so please do. But please link this thread and mention my username. Do you have a link to your site? I like it, but there is no cap as regards the 'kiss' ability. How many times per day? (personally i would go with 'the target is weakened) And no text to mention that it could be a touch attack after a successful grapple. Not only "could" it be a successful touch attack after a grapple, that's the only way to use it on an unwilling target. The trick is to make the target willing... The only usage limit is once per round.
DarkRhystar 01-04-07, 12:37 PM	Since you're linking back to this thread, it may be wise to revisit it. Racial traits * Medium size * Humanoid (planetouched subtype). Allurin count as both Humanoids and Outsiders for the effects of spells. * base land speed 30 ft. * Charisma +2. Allurin have naturally attractive physiques and a vibrant personality. * +2 on Charisma checks and Charisma-based skill checks regarding the opposite sex * +2 to saves against poison * electricity resistance 5 Pretty heavy list of straight bonuses. A bonus to a casting stat with no penalties is pretty rare. * Poison Kiss: An allurin can weaken another person with a kiss. The victim must succeed at a fortitude save against 10 + half the allurin's level + Cha bonus or take 2 points of Constitution damage. This ability is usable once per round. The target of the kiss must be willing, or the Allurin must succeed at a touch attack during a grapple. Seems okay. * Fiend Form: As a standard action, the Allurin can Change Shape (Su) into his fiend form. In Fiend Form he gains claws (1d4 slashing damage), small non-functional wings, Darkvision 60 ft., and natural armor bonus +1. The fiend-form is clearly nonhuman, and can only be disguised at a -5 penalty. Natural Claw attacks (1d4) Darkvision 60' Natural Armor +1 Unclear duration indicating they can always be in fiend form. No method described for changing back into normal form. A meaningless penalty (if you can change back to normal form the penalty means nothing at all). This looks like a really poorly thought out feature and one that gives the base listing of abilities enough oomph to make it to LA +1 (Light). * Taint of Evil: Regardless of his true alignment, an Allurin is always considered evil for the effects of spells. This can be masked with the same way that evil alignment can be masked, by there is no known way to get rid of this curse. So... it's the Evil subtype without the natural weapons overcoming DR part. * Susceptibility to cold iron: If an Allurin takes 5 or more points of damage from a cold iron weapon, he takes 1 point of strength damage (no save). Um Strength damage? As in, ability damage that's almost meaningless? With Favored Class (Sorcerer) and a Charisma bonus, what do you think the character will be relying on Strength for at all? This might be an actual penalty if it gave maybe... 2 points of Constitution damage. Favored Class: Sorcerer Level Adjustment: +0 LA (Heavy) or +1 (Light) Fixed. IMPROVED ALLURIN RESISTANCE [Allurin] The demon blood in you strengthened your resistance. Prerequisite: Allurin Benefit: You gain an additional +2 to saves against poison and +5 electricity resistance. In fiend form, you gain an additional point of natural armor. You gain an additional +1 electricity resistance for each Allurin feat that you have. Special: This feat may be taken several times. It's effects stack. +5 Electrical Resistance + 1 x Allurin feats (including this one?) +2 saves versus poison +1 Natural Armor Stackable How many feats do you know that grant that many bonuses? :eek: STRONG SUCCUBUS BLOOD [Allurin] The Succubus heritage is strong in you and increases your sorcery might. Prerequisite: Ability to cast arcane or divine spells without preparation. Benefit: Select one of your spontaneous casting classes. Add the following spells to the list of your spells known, at the respective level. 1. Detect Good 2. Detect Thoughts 3. Suggestion 4. Charm Monster 5. Dominate Person 6. Mass Suggestion 7. Greater Teleport 8. Summon Monster VIII (vrock only, regardless of alignment) 9. Energy Drain Special: If have already selected one of the spells as one of your spells known, you may select a different spell of equal or lower level instead. (Only applies to classes that select their known spells, such as Sorcerer) 1 feat to give a Sorcerer 9 spells with no strings attached other than race? Congratulations, you just got Extra Spell nine times over with one feat. Way too powerful. Nitpick: Racial feats have the tag [RACIAL] next to them and the name of the race in the prerequisites line, not the race's name in the tag.
mkill 01-04-07, 01:11 PM	Pretty heavy list of straight bonuses. A bonus to a casting stat with no penalties is pretty rare. Lesser Aasimar, Races of Faerun, +2 Wis, +Cha, no penalty Natural Claw attacks (1d4) Darkvision 60' Natural Armor +1 Unclear duration indicating they can always be in fiend form. No method described for changing back into normal form. A meaningless penalty (if you can change back to normal form the penalty means nothing at all). I wrote that changing into the form is a standard action, so changing back is a standard action, too. And yes, the Disguise penalty can be circumvented by changing back. Just that you don't get to use the fiend form's special abilities then. This looks like a really poorly thought out feature and one that gives the base listing of abilities enough oomph to make it to LA +1 (Light). Nah, what for? Natural armor +1? Lizardfolk have natural armor +5 and they are LA +1. Um Strength damage? As in, ability damage that's almost meaningless? With Favored Class (Sorcerer) and a Charisma bonus, what do you think the character will be relying on Strength for at all? This might be an actual penalty if it gave maybe... 2 points of Constitution damage. Well, with a low Str you'll be unconcious pretty soon, and you can't grapple people to use the poison kiss. 2 points of Con damage, that could mean PK in 2 rounds, especially if there is no saving throw. Str damage is better. It's crippling, but you can only fall unconcious. Btw, Con damage could be avoided by becoming Necropolitan. After all, it's not really meant as a balancing penalty, more flavor. The race would be balanced against the human bonus feat + skill points without that. +5 Electrical Resistance + 1 x Allurin feats (including this one?) +2 saves versus poison +1 Natural Armor Stackable How many feats do you know that grant that many bonuses? :eek: Fixed... 1 feat to give a Sorcerer 9 spells with no strings attached other than race? Congratulations, you just got Extra Spell nine times over with one feat. Way too powerful. The Bloodline feats in Dragon #311 also grant 9 spells. Any of the Initiate feats in the player's guide to Faerun grant 4-6 spells and an additional ability. Arcane Disciple grants you all the spells of a domain. Yes, it's a powerful feat, but there is more of that stuff out there and it's official. Powerful, yes. Too powerful? Maybe. But I didn't open that can of worms, I just work with what's out there. Nitpick: Racial feats have the tag [RACIAL] next to them and the name of the race in the prerequisites line, not the race's name in the tag. [Shifter] exists. All in all, from raw power, there is nothing on this page you can't already have with a Lesser Aasimar Sorcerer with the Arcane Disciple feat. FR books also have feats that grant +5 energy resistance and +1 natural armor.
DarkRhystar 01-04-07, 05:35 PM	Lesser Aasimar, Races of Faerun, +2 Wis, +Cha, no penalty :twitch: There are things which make me happy Faerun isn't core material but fair enough. The Lesser Aasimar is a LA +0 (Heavy) race. It's more powerful than LA +0 but not enough so to be LA +1. Every time I've seen this race discussed, folks have said it's under-valued at LA +0 and some think it should be LA +1. I think it'd need a few more power-ups to make LA +1 myself but I don't see it as a fair LA +0 race either. I wrote that changing into the form is a standard action, so changing back is a standard action, too. And yes, the Disguise penalty can be circumvented by changing back. Just that you don't get to use the fiend form's special abilities then. The power is proportional to the number of times you'll need those special powers and need to be viewed as socially acceptable. My feeling is that if you're using those abilities (since they are battle abilities) your appearance doesn't matter. Nah, what for? Natural armor +1? Lizardfolk have natural armor +5 and they are LA +1. Lizardfolk have two RACIAL HIT DIE. Your first class level would make you ECL 4 (2 RHD, 1 LA, 1 CL). Well, with a low Str you'll be unconcious pretty soon, and you can't grapple people to use the poison kiss. 2 points of Con damage, that could mean PK in 2 rounds, especially if there is no saving throw. Str damage is better. It's crippling, but you can only fall unconcious. Btw, Con damage could be avoided by becoming Necropolitan. Honestly, if you're taking tons of damage such that would result in death in a couple rounds, you'd probably collapse from STR damage as well (and sooner since most mages have higher CON than STR). CON damage has more disadvantages that appear immediately and may actually influence a fight. And any damage can go away easily with a level of Binder and Neberious. Pulling material from other books doesn't make penalties non-existent, it simply means you're expending resources to get rid of them. After all, it's not really meant as a balancing penalty, more flavor. The race would be balanced against the human bonus feat + skill points without that. Then don't include it in your reasons why this should be LA +0. You can't say "This is a balancing factor for why it should be LA +0" and then turn around and say "Well it's just for flavor" when someone calls it a poor balancing factor. Pick one. ;) The Bloodline feats in Dragon #311 also grant 9 spells. Any of the Initiate feats in the player's guide to Faerun grant 4-6 spells and an additional ability. Arcane Disciple grants you all the spells of a domain. Yes, it's a powerful feat, but there is more of that stuff out there and it's official. Powerful, yes. Too powerful? Maybe. But I didn't open that can of worms, I just work with what's out there. Do you balance all your material by 3rd party sources such as Dragon? The Initiate feats are for Clerics, Druids, Paladins, and Rangers only so no Spontaneous Caster business there. Arcane Disciple also has the prerequisite of requiring a completely different casting stat (Wisdom) than most arcane classes use. Maintaining two high casting stats is a big balancing factor. Compared to the current material only the Sandshaper of Sandstorm does what this feat does and that's a powerful class ability (which makes the Sandshaper a popular Sorcerer prestige class). This feat is beyond the scope of every other feat out there in Core and most WotC supplements I know of. [Shifter] exists. All in all, from raw power, there is nothing on this page you can't already have with a Lesser Aasimar Sorcerer with the Arcane Disciple feat. FR books also have feats that grant +5 energy resistance and +1 natural armor. Lesser Aasimar = More powerful than its LA Arcane Disciple = Heavy restriction based on casting stat. Fearun Material = Not well thought-out in general. (Look at the Avariel and Incantatrix...) You put PEACH on your race. If you have no interest in changing or altering your views on this race based on criticism then take it off since honest critiquing isn't what you're looking for. PS: I really do like the flavor of the race (which is why I'm posting here) and it's nice to see a race with more thought put into so that it's not merely a collection of statistics. :)
mkill 01-05-07, 01:15 AM	There are things which make me happy Faerun isn't core material but fair enough. The Lesser Aasimar is a LA +0 (Heavy) race. It's more powerful than LA +0 but not enough so to be LA +1. Every time I've seen this race discussed, folks have said it's under-valued at LA +0 and some think it should be LA +1. I think it'd need a few more power-ups to make LA +1 myself but I don't see it as a fair LA +0 race either. Ok, so we agree that Lesser Aasimar are a tad too powerful for LA+0, so we can take them as a upper boundary. A race that is less powerful than them should be okay... Aasimar As Characters (SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/planetouched.htm#aasimar)) Aasimar characters possess the following racial traits. * +2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma. * Medium size. * An aasimar’s base land speed is 30 feet. * Darkvision: Aasimars can see in the dark up to 60 feet. * Racial Skills: Aasimars have a +2 racial bonus on Spot and Listen checks. * Special Attacks (see above): Daylight. * Special Qualities (see above): Resistance to acid 5, cold 5, and electricity 5. * Automatic Languages: Common, Celestial. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Halfling, Sylvan. * Favored Class: Paladin. So, for the Allurin we have half darkvision, one resistance instead of three, a +2 skill bonus to a set of skills but with the "other sex" restriction, no spell-like ability, and most important, no Wis +2. Allurin get a Fiend Form, which is rather weak unless you pour feats into it or get a PrC like Warshaper, and the poison kiss, but they pay for this with two disadvantages, the susceptibility to cold iron and the taint of evil. All in all, the Lesser Aasimar comes out in front. The power is proportional to the number of times you'll need those special powers and need to be viewed as socially acceptable. My feeling is that if you're using those abilities (since they are battle abilities) your appearance doesn't matter. Sure. That's intended. In social situations Allurin can walk around in their normal form, but in battle they change to fiend form. Lizardfolk have two RACIAL HIT DIE. Your first class level would make you ECL 4 (2 RHD, 1 LA, 1 CL). Okay, then take the poison husk from MM3, LA +1, natural armor +3 IIRC, no racial hit dice, tons of other goodies. In any case, for a good LA +1, they would need a stronger Fiend Form. Honestly, if you're taking tons of damage such that would result in death in a couple rounds, you'd probably collapse from STR damage as well (and sooner since most mages have higher CON than STR). CON damage has more disadvantages that appear immediately and may actually influence a fight. If you mean "dead after 4 arrows" with "influence a fight", maybe. You seem to forget that with 2 Con damage, your hit point total goes down 1 point per level, in addition to all other damage dealt. Any race that gives it's enemies an easy chance to deal Con damage is dead very soon. You'd practicly have to go for Necropolitan or Deathless or similar to ensure your character survives attacks by enemies prepared to kill him. You put PEACH on your race. If you have no interest in changing or altering your views on this race based on criticism then take it off since honest critiquing isn't what you're looking for. Well, PEACH means I collect arguments, I discuss with other posters and I want them to convince me. It does not mean I try to please everyone :rolleyes: So you convinced me that the Strong Succubus Blood feat is too much, and I'm thinking of a way to change it. PS: I really do like the flavor of the race (which is why I'm posting here) and it's nice to see a race with more thought put into so that it's not merely a collection of statistics. :) Thanks.
Deadguy118 01-05-07, 09:49 AM	Nice Race. If you want the Allurin could also be the desendents of Eryines as well as Succumbi
DarkRhystar 01-05-07, 06:12 PM	All in all, the Lesser Aasimar comes out in front. Agreed. That's why I pegged the race as LA +0 (Heavy) before although maybe it's not as heavy as I first thought. :) Okay, then take the poison husk from MM3, LA +1, natural armor +3 IIRC, no racial hit dice, tons of other goodies. In any case, for a good LA +1, they would need a stronger Fiend Form. Lizardfolk (Poison Dusk) you mean? They're a solid LA +1. Lots of nice stuff for their LA. The only things that strike me as off about them are the fact that they have a whopping +9 to Hide checks (+4 small size, +5 racial) and 3 attacks per round at ECL 2. Very nasty as Rogues. If you mean "dead after 4 arrows" with "influence a fight", maybe. You seem to forget that with 2 Con damage, your hit point total goes down 1 point per level, in addition to all other damage dealt. Any race that gives it's enemies an easy chance to deal Con damage is dead very soon. You'd practicly have to go for Necropolitan or Deathless or similar to ensure your character survives attacks by enemies prepared to kill him. Didn't forget it. It's just that for the classes the race is suited for, Strength isn't a critical feature of the class. Still, the more I think about it... I think my reaction above was a knee-jerk one. Cold Iron isn't just more effective against them, it's downright lethal as-is. In fact, it's more lethal here than to more powerful similar races especially at higher levels where enemies get many attacks. If this really is a mostly flavor point, here's an idea to consider. Instead of dealing ability damage, have it impose a -2 Con penalty. It still retains the flavor of weakening the race without being extremely lethal. :) So you convinced me that the Strong Succubus Blood feat is too much, and I'm thinking of a way to change it. Why not make a line of Succubi Heritage feats? Instead of Sorcerer only, require a Spontaneous Casting class. Who knows, they might actually turn out to be worth taking (unlike the Celestial and Infernal ones...).
mkill 01-07-07, 04:04 AM	I split the succubus blood feat in two, so it should be fine now. As for Erinyes, sure, I could image a similar race based on erinyes. But as I see it, erinyes are more like infernal amazons, female warriors, instead of seductresses like succubi. So erinye blood might give other abilities.
ArochanoX 01-07-07, 08:33 AM	With one physical attribute penalty I'd say it's a solid LA +0. No core races have positive sum of ability modifiers. I strongly suggest constitution penalty, secondary would be dexterity. (Game balance reasons, hurts the durability.) Otherwise this race has some neat abilities and good fluff. I like it. Also the vast list of racial feats impress me. Good job!
mkill 01-07-07, 12:54 PM	I don't think a penalty to a physical stat is in any way necessary here. I don't even write a core race here. It makes no difference for a sorc build but it ruins it for Hexblades and Paladins. Also, this race already has 2 built-in disadvantages which fit much better than any penalty. Look at the two races that make this races ancestry: Human: +/-0 everything Succubus: Str 13, Dex 13, Con 13, Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 26 I don't see any source for a penalty for a physical stat.
ArochanoX 01-07-07, 02:51 PM	I'm not talking about fluff when I suggest mechanical changes for race balance. Lesser planetouched is nowhere near a balanced LA +0 race. It's forgotten realms stuff which is almost always near broken (muckdwellers, incantantrix, hathran, halruaan elder, etc etc etc.)
DarkRhystar 01-07-07, 05:08 PM	Also, this race already has 2 built-in disadvantages which fit much better than any penalty. The problem with your disadvantages as opposed to a stat penalty is that a stat penalty will always be a disadvantage, all the time. A hit to Constitution make sure you always have less fortitude, always have less HP, always take a penalty on Con-based skills. Your Cold Iron and Taint disadvantages occur on the off chance that the enemy has a Cold Iron weapon or someone needs to do an alignment check. For much of the game, they don't matter at all. It's the equivalent of taking the -2 melee attacks flaw in UA with a Wizard or the -4 spot/listen flaw with a character with 0 ranks in both. Yeah they're penalties, but just how often will they come into play? Looking at the magnitude of the penalty is important, but looking at how often it will manifest is equally so.
Dr. Benway 01-08-07, 04:01 AM	I like this race a lot too, but I have one serious gripe about it. The +2 bonus versus only the opposite sex is very...childish? Close minded? The right term escapes me at the moment. Basically, it just rubs me the wrong way... From the beginning, the creators of this edition have made it clear that traditional gender roles do not exist in their DnD world. Women can be a paladins or barbarians just as easily as men, and dont have dumb things like penalties to strength and bonuses to dexterity etc. Assuming that physical attraction can only work on the ooposite gender is unrealstic to the point of bordering on delusional, and approaches biggotry. Now if you wanted to say that the bonus comes from something like phermones which has its basis in biology, and specifically reproduction, then that would be one thing. But to base it on appearance alone and then say it only works on the opposite sex is naive, at best. So yeah, rubs me the wrong way, and is inappropriate both in terms of the game context, and in the real world. That is, of course, just my personal opinion. DocB :88E: vs :coolcthul Who shall prevail?
mkill 01-08-07, 11:04 AM	The problem with your disadvantages as opposed to a stat penalty is that a stat penalty will always be a disadvantage, all the time. A hit to Constitution make sure you always have less fortitude, always have less HP, always take a penalty on Con-based skills. That's not true. A wizard will never care about a -2 strength penalty. A druid can replace both Str -2 and Dex -2 with wild shape. A fighter has no disadvantage from a -2 charisma. If you go for anything in heavy armor, dex -2 matters nothing as your full plate will not allow you to use more than a +1 dex bonus anyway and Dex 12 would still be cheap in point buy. A warlock can go very well with a Con -2 as he will be flying and invisible and shooting from range. A barbarian can take Int -2 easily as his 4 skill points are enough for a few ranks in Listen and lack of skills will not hinder his main ability, which is smacking things with a large axe. ... Sure an attribute penalty is a strong disadvantage, probably as heavy as both flaws combined, but they too affect some characters more, some less. I like this race a lot too, but I have one serious gripe about it. The +2 bonus versus only the opposite sex is very...childish? Close minded? The right term escapes me at the moment. Basically, it just rubs me the wrong way... From the beginning, the creators of this edition have made it clear that traditional gender roles do not exist in their DnD world. Women can be a paladins or barbarians just as easily as men, and dont have dumb things like penalties to strength and bonuses to dexterity etc. Assuming that physical attraction can only work on the ooposite gender is unrealstic to the point of bordering on delusional, and approaches biggotry. Now if you wanted to say that the bonus comes from something like phermones which has its basis in biology, and specifically reproduction, then that would be one thing. But to base it on appearance alone and then say it only works on the opposite sex is naive, at best. Well, we're talking about sexual attraction here. It's succubus blood! Pure, obvious, sex. It's even in the racial description: "Physical Description: As human, but all Allurin share an attractive physique, with almost exaggerated features." Sorry, but you can't tell me that men are attracted to Brad Pitt the same way as women are. And women will never understand what men find attractive about Pamela Anderson. I know that WotC wants to keep the sex out of the game, but that does not mean a homebrew race has to. I'm not writing this for 4th edition, I'm writing this for players who are looking for exactly this. Sorry, I guess our tastes just differ. And no, gender equality sure doesn't mean that every PC and NPC is bisexual. (And before anybody mentiones homosexuality I think I'm sure the DM is smart enough to apply the bonus on the same sex in this case.)
pheonixfrostmourn 01-08-07, 02:29 PM	Nice race. Love the flavor...but, 1] instead of +2 vs those of the opposite sex, perhaps reword it as follows: "+2 bonus to all CHA checks CHA-based skill checks vs those who would normally be attracted to their race & gender". this way you keep the original intent, and also allow for alternate views on sexuality. 2] Fiend form: either get rid of it for a more balanced LA +0; OR beef it up slightly and make them LA +1. you should also add a maximun duration per change, or at least per day (maybe start with 1+CON modifer times per day, then add a feat that increases it by +3 times per day). I would also increase the diguise penalty to -10 (extreamely hard for fledgling Allurin to diguise their true nature, but becoming easier thru experiance). Both of these are small gripes about an otherwise very cool race. If you deside not to incorporate them into your official version, I probally will when I "borrow" them for my next campaign (giving you full design credit of course).
DarkRhystar 01-08-07, 11:38 PM	That's not true. A wizard will never care about a -2 strength penalty. A druid can replace both Str -2 and Dex -2 with wild shape. They'll still be affected by them all the time and not just on the off chance the enemy is character the one specific metal that will harm them. I guarantee that if the DM is keeping track of encumbrance that Wizard won't be carrying tons of crafting materials or magic items himself. A fighter has no disadvantage from a -2 charisma. If you go for anything in heavy armor, dex -2 matters nothing as your full plate will not allow you to use more than a +1 dex bonus anyway and Dex 12 would still be cheap in point buy. Unless he actually wants to use a bow since, you know, not every enemy will consent to melee. A warlock can go very well with a Con -2 as he will be flying and invisible and shooting from range. That doesn't mean he'll never get hit, a -2 Con ensures he'll be that much more hurt when he does. :rolleyes: A barbarian can take Int -2 easily as his 4 skill points are enough for a few ranks in Listen and lack of skills will not hinder his main ability, which is smacking things with a large axe. Oddly enough, Int is a pretty good stat for warrior-types. Quite a few melee feats have annoying Int requirements. Sure an attribute penalty is a strong disadvantage, probably as heavy as both flaws combined, but they too affect some characters more, some less. It's the fact that if a character never encounters a cold iron weapon in the campaign that the penalty doesn't exist that's the problem. If the character encounters tons of them it will be painful and seem like the DM is targeting the character.
mkill 01-08-07, 11:58 PM	It's the fact that if a character never encounters a cold iron weapon in the campaign that the penalty doesn't exist that's the problem. If the character encounters tons of them it will be painful and seem like the DM is targeting the character. Of course the usual street thug does not carry cold iron. But PCs tend to make enemies. And the cold iron weakness will be a a commonly known fact (Knowledge (local) DC 11) in any campaign that incorporates Allurin. So any enemy that is set out to get rid of the PCs and prepares before he encounters them, such as a BBEG, will try to get his hands on a cold iron weapon.
mkill 01-09-07, 12:11 AM	1] instead of +2 vs those of the opposite sex, perhaps reword it as follows: "+2 bonus to all CHA checks CHA-based skill checks vs those who would normally be attracted to their race & gender". this way you keep the original intent, and also allow for alternate views on sexuality. Okay, for the love of god. 2] Fiend form: either get rid of it for a more balanced LA +0; OR beef it up slightly and make them LA +1. you should also add a maximun duration per change, or at least per day (maybe start with 1+CON modifer times per day, then add a feat that increases it by +3 times per day). I would also increase the diguise penalty to -10 (extreamely hard for fledgling Allurin to diguise their true nature, but becoming easier thru experiance). I removed it from the basic class abilities and made it a feat.
Thief_of_Hope 01-11-07, 12:06 AM	I really like this race. It contains my favorite blend, that of flavor and usability, with exclusive feats besides! I've always wanted to find a way to play a character with succubus-specific heritage (as opposed to general demon heritage). This gives everything one could want in such a character. I will definitely use this race in a future campaign. Well done.
YabaTheWhat 01-11-07, 08:19 AM	Racial traits Medium size [0 FP] Humanoid (planetouched subtype). Allurin count as both Humanoids and Outsiders for the effects of spells. [0 FP] base land speed 30 ft. [0 FP] Charisma +2. Allurin have naturally attractive physiques and a vibrant personality. [4 FP] +2 to Charisma checks and Charisma-based skill checks against those who would normally be attracted to their race and gender [4 FP] +2 to saves against poison [1 FP] electricity resistance 5 [2.5 FP] Darkvision 30 ft. [2.5 FP] Poison Kiss: An allurin can weaken another person with a kiss. The victim must succeed at a fortitude save against 10 + half the allurin's level + Cha bonus or take 2 points of Constitution damage. This ability is usable once per round. The target of the kiss must be willing, or the Allurin must succeed at a touch attack during a grapple. [2x(12/4)+2 = 8 FP] Taint of Evil: Regardless of his true alignment, an Allurin is always considered evil for the effects of spells. This can be masked with the same way that evil alignment can be masked, by there is no known way to get rid of this curse. [-0.5 FP (combined with Planetouched subtype)] Susceptibility to cold iron: If an Allurin takes 5 or more points of damage from a cold iron weapon, he takes 1 point of strength damage (no save). [-0.5 FP] Automatic Languages: Common. Bonus languages: Abyssal, and any spoken in the region of origin. Favored Class: Sorcerer Level Adjustment: [see below] Total = 21 FP, LA+1 underpowered.
mkill 01-11-07, 09:21 AM	@Thief of Hope: Have fun with it! @Yaba: Thank you! Charisma +2. Allurin have naturally attractive physiques and a vibrant personality. [4 FP] Your system counts all 6 attributes as equally valuable. While I don't want to start a discussion about this, I just would like to point out that most balancing systems I've seen for D&D, including the one the authors seem to be using, rates Charisma as the least valuable among all attributes. * +2 to Charisma checks and Charisma-based skill checks against those who would normally be attracted to their race and gender [4 FP] How did you calculate this one? Is it really as valuable as another Cha +2 (4 FP)? +2 to Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise (arguably), Gather Information, Intimidate, Perform, but only against humanoids of the opposite gender, and audiences for the Perform skill will seldom be of only one gender. On top of that, for Diplomacy, even a friendly person can be annoying if said person wants to sleep with you. * Poison Kiss: An allurin can weaken another person with a kiss. The victim must succeed at a fortitude save against 10 + half the allurin's level + Cha bonus or take 2 points of Constitution damage. This ability is usable once per round. The target of the kiss must be willing, or the Allurin must succeed at a touch attack during a grapple. [2x(12/4)+2 = 8 FP] Does this take into account that you can only use this ability during a grapple? As a medium-sized sorcerer, there are a lot of creatures you don't want to grapple with. * Taint of Evil: Regardless of his true alignment, an Allurin is always considered evil for the effects of spells. This can be masked with the same way that evil alignment can be masked, by there is no known way to get rid of this curse. [-0.5 FP (combined with Planetouched subtype)] * Susceptibility to cold iron: If an Allurin takes 5 or more points of damage from a cold iron weapon, he takes 1 point of strength damage (no save). [-0.5 FP] How did you rate these? I can't find any helpful entries in your table. Ok, my take: * Medium size [0 FP] * Humanoid (planetouched subtype). [0 FP] * base land speed 30 ft. [0 FP] * Charisma +2. [4 FP] * +2 to Charisma checks (...) [2.5 FP] * +2 to saves against poison [1 FP] * electricity resistance 5 [2.5 FP] * Darkvision 30 ft. [2.5 FP] * Poison Kiss: (...) [2x(12/4)+2 = 8 FP]*(0.75) = 6 FP (grapple prereq) * Taint of Evil: [-0.5 FP] * Susceptibility to cold iron: [-1 FP] 17 ... strong LA +0 :P Now considering that your system rates Cha +2 the same as any attribute +2, and that it rates the electricity resistance really high (I can't remember any of my characters getting hit by an electricity attack in the last half year of weekly play)... I think they are fine!
YabaTheWhat 01-11-07, 09:48 AM	Your system counts all 6 attributes as equally valuable. While I don't want to start a discussion about this, I just would like to point out that most balancing systems I've seen for D&D, including the one the authors seem to be using, rates Charisma as the least valuable among all attributes. I've seen some of those systems, including the one that thinks you can have a CHA 26 undead creature with no level adjustment. While the "dump stat" argument on ability score penalties has some merit (which I compensated by giving penalties progressively diminishing values on all ability scores), there's no such thing as a wasted ability score bonus. How did you calculate this one? Is it really as valuable as another Cha +2 (4 FP)? +2 to Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise (arguably), Gather Information, Intimidate, Perform, but only against humanoids of the opposite gender, and audiences for the Perform skill will seldom be of only one gender. On top of that, for Diplomacy, even a friendly person can be annoying if said person wants to sleep with you. Your original version never specified humanoid. Players should not be left with the option to apply their bonuses to any creature that might be attracted to a humanoid. After all, have you seen the number of creatures that have mated with humans? Do you realize that succubi/incubi are included in those races? Specify that it applies only to self-subtyped humanoid races (such as Orcs being Humanoid (Orc)), and the value will drop. Keep in mind that, even though it only applies to skills, the bonus itself is twice that awarded by the ability score bonus. Does this take into account that you can only use this ability during a grapple? As a medium-sized sorcerer, there are a lot of creatures you don't want to grapple with. It's an extremely powerful ability. Be glad it doesn't cost a lot more. Normally ability damage would be 1dx, and the cost is based on the maximum, so you're already getting a 50% discount. While you wouldn't want to grapple as a sorcerer, this ability does eliminate one of a sorcerer's major vulnerabilities. Also, keep in mind what will happen at higher levels, when they gain access to Polymorph. Suddenly this grapple-only touch ability applies to bite attacks (many of which trip or grapple automatically). How did you rate these? Being an evil outsider has one upside and a couple downsides. The upside is it overcomes damage reduction that is bypassed by evil. Not really big in most non-evil campaigns, but still a benefit. One downside is they'll always detect as evil, which may mean dealing with a few temperamental paladins. Another is that, as evil outsiders, some spells will deal them extra damage, and they can be smited. This is the only one really worth considering, and it isn't that big of a penalty. Vulnerability to cold iron is a bit more prominent. Actually taking the strength damage could be an issue, but considering how few opponents would go after a humanoid with a cold-iron weapon, it almost becomes a non-issue. This race basically loses 1FP total for vulnerability to paladins and a few spells.
mkill 01-11-07, 10:25 AM	Your original version never specified humanoid. Players should not be left with the option to apply their bonuses to any creature that might be attracted to a humanoid. After all, have you seen the number of creatures that have mated with humans? Do you realize that succubi/incubi are included in those races? Specify that it applies only to self-subtyped humanoid races (such as Orcs being Humanoid (Orc)), and the value will drop. As it stands, the bonus applies to all members of Humanoid races that are known to mate with humans, such as elves. Individual members of other races might be attracted to humans too, notably dragons. But you surely don't get the bonus against Illithids and Beholders. Sure, it's a DM's call, but I prefer it that way. If the DM says "no, that goblin is not attracted to you", no bonus. Keep in mind that, even though it only applies to skills, the bonus itself is twice that awarded by the ability score bonus. Sure, but another Cha +2 would also be the main casting stat of Sorcs and others, it would help divine grace, Ascetic Monks etc. etc. It's an extremely powerful ability. Be glad it doesn't cost a lot more. Normally ability damage would be 1dx, and the cost is based on the maximum, so you're already getting a 50% discount. While you wouldn't want to grapple as a sorcerer, this ability does eliminate one of a sorcerer's major vulnerabilities. Also, keep in mind what will happen at higher levels, when they gain access to Polymorph. Suddenly this grapple-only touch ability applies to bite attacks (many of which trip or grapple automatically). As you brought that up: Polymorph can get you new attacks, but it looks like you also don't lose your original ones in the process. How would the Poison Kiss have to be reworded that you lose the ability if you polymorph? Also, it looks like Poison Kiss, Taint of Evil and Susceptibility to cold iron have no descriptor yet as to what kind of ability they are. Natural? Ex? Su? Being an evil outsider has one upside and a couple downsides. The upside is it overcomes damage reduction that is bypassed by evil. Not really big in most non-evil campaigns, but still a benefit. One downside is they'll always detect as evil, which may mean dealing with a few temperamental paladins. Another is that, as evil outsiders, some spells will deal them extra damage, and they can be smited. This is the only one really worth considering, and it isn't that big of a penalty. Erm... they are not outsiders. They are humanoids. Check the Humanoid (planetouched subtype), Players Guide to Faerun, p. 191. They get the weaknesses of an outsider (hit by certain spells) without the benefits.
YabaTheWhat 01-11-07, 11:29 AM	As it stands, the bonus applies to all members of Humanoid races that are known to mate with humans, such as elves. Individual members of other races might be attracted to humans too, notably dragons. But you surely don't get the bonus against Illithids and Beholders. Sure, it's a DM's call, but I prefer it that way. If the DM says "no, that goblin is not attracted to you", no bonus. No, it doesn't say "humanoid" anywhere in the feature description. It says "those who are sexually attracted to your race and gender". See the aforementioned note, along with both backstories for your race's origins, and the numerous half-human hybrid races listed throughout the various official sourcebooks. (Also see Ron White's logical proof that all men are at least a little gay, if you really want to nitpick.) Unless you state explicitly that only humanoids (or a subset thereof) may be influenced, then accept that the bonus applies against everything with emotions, and move on. Sure, but another Cha +2 would also be the main casting stat of Sorcs and others, it would help divine grace, Ascetic Monks etc. etc. Hence why they weren't charged 17 FP for having a +6 charisma bonus (15 FP for +6 bonus, minus 4 FP for their existing +2 bonus, plus 6 FP for highest score of +6). As already stated, either restrict the bonus explicitly, or it retains the value I originally stated. As you brought that up: Polymorph can get you new attacks, but it looks like you also don't lose your original ones in the process. How would the Poison Kiss have to be reworded that you lose the ability if you polymorph? Also, it looks like Poison Kiss, Taint of Evil and Susceptibility to cold iron have no descriptor yet as to what kind of ability they are. Natural? Ex? Su? Poison Kiss, if based on the Succubus's ability, looks like a supernatural (SU) ability, and is thus not lost by polymorph. If it was poison (EX), they would lose it, because they would lose the organ (pheromone gland?) that produces the poison when polymorphed. That's really the only way. As for Taint of Evil, they would have the Evil subtype (as in Humanoid (Evil)); this feature does not count as EX/SU/SP at all. Susceptability to cold iron might be EX or SU; check the DR listing on the base race (succubus) if you don't want to just decide for yourself. Erm... they are not outsiders. They are humanoids. Check the Humanoid (planetouched subtype), Players Guide to Faerun, p. 191. They get the weaknesses of an outsider (hit by certain spells) without the benefits. And if you look carefully, you'll notice I didn't charge them the (rather significant) costs for the benefits of being an actual outsider. This is a null argument.
mkill 01-12-07, 07:35 AM	I made some changes: Increased damage from Susceptibility to Cold Iron: 1 point of Str damage for 5 points of hp damage taken, maximum 3. This makes cold iron weapons something to be scared of, either because you can't fight effectively anymore (paladin, hexblade) or you'll be unconcious very quick (Sorcerer). Also, this ability is specified as supernatural. Poison Kiss is an extraordinary ability. Darkvision seems to be 60 ft. per default, so they also get 60 ft. Taint of Evil has been replaced by the Evil subtype. The main reason is that I want to use an existing game term instead of inventing my own stuff.
Bladegeek 01-12-07, 11:24 AM	Great race. The way it is written I think it is LA+1. I was working of a half Nymph of the same flavor but from a different slant. Good Job. :ayyyy!:
YabaTheWhat 01-12-07, 11:33 AM	Increased damage from Susceptibility to Cold Iron: 1 point of Str damage for 5 points of hp damage taken, maximum 3. This makes cold iron weapons something to be scared of, either because you can't fight effectively anymore (paladin, hexblade) or you'll be unconcious very quick (Sorcerer). Also, this ability is specified as supernatural.If they also take this damage from creatures normally able to bypass DR/ColdIron (i.e. those with DR/ColdIron of their own), then it'll actually mean something as a penalty. Allurin Feats ALLURIN TELEPATH [Allurin] You have inherited the telepathic ability of your demonic side. Prerequisite: Allurin, Allurin Tongue, one other Allurin feat Benefit: You can communicate telepathically with creatures within 50 ft. This is a supernatural ability. ALLURIN TONGUE [Allurin] Like your fiendish ancestor, you speak the universal language of seduction. Prerequisite: Allurin Benefit: You can use the Tongues spell as a spell-like ability (cast as a Sorcerer of your character level) at will. FIEND FORM [Allurin] You can change your form into one that closer resembles your Succubus heritage. Prerequisite: Allurin Benefit: At will, as a standard action, you can Change Shape (Su) into a fiend form (and back). In Fiend Form you gain claws (1d6 slashing damage), small non-functional wings, and a +2 natural armor bonus. The fiend-form is clearly nonhuman, and can only be disguised at a -5 penalty. FUNCTIONAL WINGS [Allurin] You can use your wings to fly. Prerequisite: Allurin, Fiend Form Benefit: In fiend form, you gain 50 ft. fly speed with average maneuverability. IMMUNITY TO COLD IRON [Allurin] By painfully building resistance, you no longer suffer from contact with cold iron. Prerequisite: Allurin Benefit: You don't have the Cold Iron Susceptibility of your race. IMPROVED DEMONIC RESISTANCE [Allurin] The demon blood in you strengthened your resistance. Prerequisite: Allurin or Fiendish Heritage Benefit: You gain an additional +2 to saves against poison and an additional 5 electricity resistance. Special: This feat may be taken several times. It's effects stack. IMPROVED FIENDISH SKIN [Allurin] Your fiendish form has a stronger resistance against the elements. Prerequisite: Allurin Benefit: In fiend form, you gain 1 point of acid, cold and fire resistance and 1 point of damage reduction / cold iron or good for each Allurin feat that you have. IMPROVED POISON KISS [Allurin] Your poison kiss is stronger. Prerequisite: Allurin Benefit: Your Poison kiss causes 1d4+1 Constitution damage, save for half. The DC is raised by 2. SUCCUBUS BLOOD [Allurin] The Succubus heritage is strong in you and increases your sorcery might. Prerequisite: Ability to cast arcane or divine spells without preparation; Allurin or Fiendish Heritage Benefit: Select one of your spontaneous casting classes. Add the following spells to the list of your spells known and your class spell list, at the level indicated in brackets. detect good (1st) detect thoughts (2nd) suggestion (3rd) tongues (3rd) charm monster (4th) Special: If have already selected one of the spells as one of your spells known, you may select a different spell of equal or lower level instead. (Only applies to classes that select their known spells, such as Sorcerer) STRONGER SUCCUBUS BLOOD [Allurin] The Succubus heritage is even stronger in you. Prerequisite: Ability to cast arcane or divine spells without preparation; Allurin or Fiendish Heritage; Succubus blood Benefit: As the Succubus Blood feat, add the following spells: ethereal jaunt (7th) mass suggestion (6th) greater teleport (7th) monster summoning VIII (vrock only, 8th) TRUE SUCCUBUS KISS [Allurin] You can drain energy with a kiss, like a true succubus. Prerequisite: Allurin, Improved Poison Kiss, 2 other Allurin feats, Fortitude base save 4+. Benefit: Your kiss is powerful like that of a true Succubus. Instead of doing Constitution damage, your kiss can drain energy (Su) (DC 10 + half level + Cha to remove negative level), and you can plant a Suggestion (Su) to accept another kiss (Will save DC 10 + half level + Cha). Restrict the Telepath feat so that it can only be used to communicate with one creature at a time. Allurin Tongue needs some more significant prerequisites, or needs to be toned down. As is, it provides a third-level SLA at will for the cost of a single feat. I suggest tacking on a prerequisite of CHA 13 (easily achieved) and INT 13, as well as a number of ranks (say 6) in both Decipher Script and Sense Motive. The skill rank requirements force them to wait until 3rd level to take the feat. Fiend Form is about as powerful as Alter Self at will. Either split it into two parts or give it some more significant prerequisites. Appropriate prerequisites include CON 13, minimum FORT & WILL saves of +4 each, a minimum base attack bonus of +4, or a minimum number of hit dice. Functional Wings is powerful, but if they can't take Fiend Form until 6th level due to prerequisites, then they won't be able to take this feat until 9th level, by which time it will be reasonably balanced. It looks like you plan for people to take Improved Fiendish Skin in preparation for taking Fiend Form at a higher level. Balance on this one is hard to gauge, but pushing Fiend Form back to the 6th level or later feat should keep this one in check as well. The bolstering feats for Poison Kiss don't look too bad, though it's hard to gauge. Any complaints about the Poison Kiss feats would apply to the base ability as well. The current prerequisites on True Succubus Kiss (4 allurin feats total) should keep it in check until 12th level, by which point it shouldn't be unbalancing to the game. For the Succubus Blood feats, don't let them pick another spell if they already have the ones listed. It just leaves room for abuse. One thing you don't need is someone having Charm Monster in their list and using it as an excuse to pick up Polymorph for free.
mkill 01-12-07, 12:29 PM	Great race. The way it is written I think it is LA+1. I was working of a half Nymph of the same flavor but from a different slant. Good Job. :ayyyy!: They are too weak for LA +1. If they had the Fiend Form as a racial ability instead of a feat, plus another racial feat for free, they would be a good LA +1. (Susceptibility to cold iron) If they also take this damage from creatures normally able to bypass DR/ColdIron (i.e. those with DR/ColdIron of their own), then it'll actually mean something as a penalty. Sure, I thought these critters have natural weapons that count as cold iron weapons. But maybe I should include this in the description. As for the feat prerequisites, I agree that these need some more work. I'll think about your suggestions and see what I can do about it. Restrict the Telepath feat so that it can only be used to communicate with one creature at a time. Ok. Allurin Tongue needs some more significant prerequisites, or needs to be toned down. As is, it provides a third-level SLA at will for the cost of a single feat. I suggest tacking on a prerequisite of CHA 13 (easily achieved) and INT 13, as well as a number of ranks (say 6) in both Decipher Script and Sense Motive. The skill rank requirements force them to wait until 3rd level to take the feat. I disagree on Decipher Script, as Tongues only applies to spoken language. Fiend Form is about as powerful as Alter Self at will. Either split it into two parts or give it some more significant prerequisites. Appropriate prerequisites include CON 13, minimum FORT & WILL saves of +4 each, a minimum base attack bonus of +4, or a minimum number of hit dice. No, Alter Self at will can give you up to +8 natural armor bonus, this feat gives +2 in the current form, and possibly more than one natural attack. The most powerful part of the feat is that it fulfills the prerequisites for Warshaper. The natural weapon could be enhanced for a lot of damage. The natural armor bonus is nice, but could already be available at first level without problem. Mage armor is already available then and it's +4 for an hour. As it is, the Fiend Form is powerful at 1st level and a good feat at 3rd level. Functional Wings is powerful, but if they can't take Fiend Form until 6th level due to prerequisites, then they won't be able to take this feat until 9th level, by which time it will be reasonably balanced. The old Races of Faerun feat was available at 6th level without breaking the game. It looks like you plan for people to take Improved Fiendish Skin in preparation for taking Fiend Form at a higher level. Balance on this one is hard to gauge, but pushing Fiend Form back to the 6th level or later feat should keep this one in check as well. Improved Fiendish Skin only makes sense after Fiend Form. The bolstering feats for Poison Kiss don't look too bad, though it's hard to gauge. Any complaints about the Poison Kiss feats would apply to the base ability as well. The current prerequisites on True Succubus Kiss (4 allurin feats total) should keep it in check until 12th level, by which point it shouldn't be unbalancing to the game. A succubus is CR 6 and LA +6. Enervation is a 4th level spell. So level drains are a game element from 6th - 7th level on. For the Succubus Blood feats, don't let them pick another spell if they already have the ones listed. It just leaves room for abuse. One thing you don't need is someone having Charm Monster in their list and using it as an excuse to pick up Polymorph for free. The switching is only for classes that have slots for spells known like the Sorcerer. They can only take Polymorph for free if they have used one of their precious spell slots on Charm Monster before that when they take the feat. Classes with a fixed list like the Warmage don't get a spell swap from the feat.
YabaTheWhat 01-12-07, 03:56 PM	I disagree on Decipher Script, as Tongues only applies to spoken language. Then boost the requirement to 10 ranks of Sense Motive, and drop Decipher Script. Remember, this is a third-level SLA at will, which is significantly more useful than a third-level SLA once per day. No, Alter Self at will can give you up to +8 natural armor bonus, this feat gives +2 in the current form, and possibly more than one natural attack. The most powerful part of the feat is that it fulfills the prerequisites for Warshaper. The natural weapon could be enhanced for a lot of damage. The natural armor bonus is nice, but could already be available at first level without problem. Mage armor is already available then and it's +4 for an hour. As it is, the Fiend Form is powerful at 1st level and a good feat at 3rd level. Find me a first-level spell that grants natural weapons and natural armor. Then look for feats that make it useable at will. While this ability may not be as potent as Alter Self over a short duration, the effect is fairly similar overall, and it is useable at will. Do not make this ability accessible at first level on a race with LA+0. The shifter special ability and the barbarian rage class ability are both limited to short durations and a fixed number of uses. The old Races of Faerun feat was available at 6th level without breaking the game. I don't have Races of Faerun. My statement stands. To make flight at will balanced, it needs to be postponed. The best way to postpone it is to postpone the prerequisite, as I have already suggested.Improved Fiendish Skin only makes sense after Fiend Form. But it doesn't have Fiend Form as a prerequisite (thus it can be taken first), and doesn't need to be postponed to a later level. This should probably be the only Allurin feat in the Fiend Form chain available at first level (including Fiend Form itself). If one actually takes this feat, it is in preparation for obtaining Fiend Form later. A succubus is CR 6 and LA +6. Enervation is a 4th level spell. So level drains are a game element from 6th - 7th level on. The ECL of a succubus is 12 plus class levels. Enervation cannot be cast at will, and the level drain only stays for a few hours. This ability should not be available (and as stated, already isn't available) until 12th level. The switching is only for classes that have slots for spells known like the Sorcerer. They can only take Polymorph for free if they have used one of their precious spell slots on Charm Monster before that when they take the feat. You're not listening. The feat should only allow them the listed spell options. If they already have those options, they lose that part of the benefit. Just like any other feat and many class abilities. If a character takes two classes with Evasion, they don't gain Improved Evasion. If they take the feat Spring Attack, then get it as a class feature, they don't get to choose a different class feature instead. That's not how your feat should work either. If they want to gain the full benefit of the feat, then they shouldn't add those spells to their list before taking the feat. It's a matter of planning. Besides, the description doesn't even restrict the feat recipient to spells that would normally be on his list. Do you want to give sorcerers access to cure spells?
Qube 01-12-07, 05:57 PM	Racial traits Medium size Humanoid (planetouched, evil). As per planetouched subtype, Allurin are susceptible to spells that target outsiders such as banishment. As per evil subtype, Allurin can have any alignment, but regardless of their individual alignment they are affected by spells and effects that depend on alignment as if they were evil. They also suffer effects according to their actual alignment. They overcome damage reduction as if their natural weapons and any weapons they wield were evil-aligned. Allurin themselves refer to this as the Taint of Evil. base land speed 30 ft. Charisma +2. Allurin have naturally attractive physiques and a vibrant personality. +2 to Charisma checks and Charisma-based skill checks against those who are sexually attracted to their race and gender +2 to saves against poison electricity resistance 5 Darkvision 60 ft. (Ex): Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and Allurin can function just fine with no light at all. Poison Kiss (Ex): An Allurin can weaken another person with a kiss. The victim must succeed at a fortitude save against 10 + half the allurin's level + Cha bonus or take 2 points of Constitution damage. This ability is usable once per round. The target of the kiss must be willing, or the Allurin must succeed at a touch attack during a grapple. Susceptibility to cold iron (Su): If an Allurin takes damage from a cold iron weapon, he takes one point of strength damage for each 5 full points of damage from the attack. He may take up to three points of ability damage with one hit. There is no saving throw. They also take this damage from creatures who are able to overcome DR / cold iron. Automatic Languages: Common. Bonus languages: Abyssal, and any spoken in the region of origin. Favored Class: Sorcerer. Many Allurin develop some degree of sorcerous ability during their life, while few follow that path exclusively. Those who do wield considerable power. Level Adjustment: +0 LA +1: they have real penalties. +2 cha, +2 vs poison. they make uber sorcerers. poison kiss + cha bonus + seduce bonus + high charisma stat from sorcerer: again uber. yes susceptablility to cold iron is a penaltie. but a useless one: a sorcerer should't go mellee. if he does and gets 3 hits (which is when this ability really kicks in) he normally dies anyway. if you'd make it con damage, i would perhaps reconsider. even then; when the DM finally sends enemies with cold iron, the player will think the DM is gunning for him. in short - LA +1 - race consist of too much 'special build' combo's and not enough general options - change Susceptibility to cold iron: not a good ability for a player (ther're a race in Races of the Wild that can't handle cold iron (there weak feys): IIRC they can't wield them.
mkill 01-14-07, 02:27 AM	LA +1: they have real penalties. They are too weak for LA+1, according to Yaba the What's feature point system. +2 cha, +2 vs poison. they make uber sorcerers. Grey Elves have +2 Int and +2 vs. enchantments... are they LA+1 as uber-wizards if I follow your logic? Sure, Allurin are good as sorcerers, but that is because they were designed to fill a gap. There is no good sorcerer race in the PHB, so in comparison they are easily the best. Do dwarfs need a nerf because they are the best tank, or halflings because they are the best rogues? Sure, if the race would be the best at everything, they'd need a nerf, but nothing is wrong when a race is being good at what it was designed to be good at. poison kiss + cha bonus + seduce bonus + high charisma stat from sorcerer: again uber. As in? Remember that the Poison Kiss demands a grapple, and Sorcerers are not the right kind to grapple anyone, unless you're feeling suicidal. A poisoned dagger or poisoned arrows are better in most cases. Contrary to the poison kiss, these cost money, but that's it. yes susceptablility to cold iron is a penaltie. but a useless one: a sorcerer should't go mellee. Not going melee does not help against cold iron arrows. It also does not help against charging, flying, or dimension dooring enemies. if he does and gets 3 hits (which is when this ability really kicks in) he normally dies anyway. And the Allurin Hexblade? Evil Paladin? They would not be down after 3 hits. if you'd make it con damage, i would perhaps reconsider. Somebody else suggested that on the last page ... but I didn't like that. even then; when the DM finally sends enemies with cold iron, the player will think the DM is gunning for him. Sure, but if the DM is a little smart he would use a recurring enemy that has a story reason why he is hunting the PC down. And cold iron weapons are standard equipment for any demon hunter NPC. - race consist of too much 'special build' combo's and not enough general options I don't agree. You can build a full caster (sorcerer, warmage, dread necromancer), a tank (paladin, knight), a gish (anything based on Pal/Hex/Sor/Brd), a divine caster (cleric of a demon cult), a utility character / skill monkey / face (bard, rogue), or a psionic character (Wilder) ... everytime drawing on strengths of the race. Sure humans are more versatile, but they're much less of a specialist than, say, a half-orc. - change Susceptibility to cold iron: not a good ability for a player It's designed as a disadvantage, so it should not be a good ability for a player.
Qube 01-14-07, 03:14 AM	They are too weak for LA+1, according to Yaba the What's feature point system. LA should be calculated by comparing to other races, not by some point system, IMOGrey Elves have +2 Int and +2 vs. enchantments... are they LA+1 as uber-wizards if I follow your logic?don't they have -2 con?Sure, Allurin are good as sorcerers, but that is because they were designed to fill a gap. There is no good sorcerer race in the PHB, so in comparison they are easily the best. Do dwarfs need a nerf because they are the best tank, or halflings because they are the best rogues? (A) humans make good sorcerers, (B) some think dwarfs do need nerving (C) halflings do not make good rogues: they miss darkvision, and their low caring capacity is really anoying.Sure, if the race would be the best at everything, they'd need a nerf, but nothing is wrong when a race is being good at what it was designed to be good at. enter half-orcs: a race that is good for what is it designed to do. even they get big penaltiesAs in? Remember that the Poison Kiss demands a grapple, and Sorcerers are not the right kind to grapple anyone, unless you're feeling suicidal. unless you first seduce your target A poisoned dagger or poisoned arrows are better in most cases. Contrary to the poison kiss, these cost money, but that's it. and of course the risk of poisoning yourself? poison cost MUCH money (because its 1 time use only) and together with the risk involved, i've never known a player who uses it. and why is the DC charisma based and not con-based? (like any normal poison) Not going melee does not help against cold iron arrows. It also does not help against charging, flying, or dimension dooring enemies.not being in the frontline gives you about 80% protection from weapons: the occasional arrow, or charger. dimension door is not a good point: you can yust retreat away (the dimension doored attacker can't attack that round)And the Allurin Hexblade? Evil Paladin? They would not be down after 3 hits. as i said, its a sorcerer race. paladins benefit from the higher charisma, but they also would benefit from a human bonus feat, ...) Somebody else suggested that on the last page ... but I didn't like that.so wait, you didn't like it because it can kill? :confused: then reduce the ability damage: even wounding weapons lower CON and they aren't broken.Sure, but if the DM is a little smart he would use a recurring enemy that has a story reason why he is hunting the PC down. And cold iron weapons are standard equipment for any demon hunter NPC.still, the player will probably think your gunning for him.I don't agree. You can build a full caster (sorcerer, beguiler, dread necromancer), a tank (paladin, knight), a gish (anything based on Pal/Hex/Sor/Brd), a divine caster (cleric of a demon cult), a utility character / skill monkey / face (bard, rogue), or a psionic character (Wilder) ... everytime drawing on strengths of the race. Sure humans are more versatile, but they're much less of a specialist than, say, a half-orc. thank you for confirming that: you also said "nothing is wrong when a race is being good at what it was designed to be good at." and here you are saying that it isn't really specialized. - a half orc is good at what he is designed for, and less good for other things (that makes him balanced) - allurin are good at what they are designed for, but still good at x spellcasting (sorcerer, shugenja, psionics) (what they wore designed for) x tanking (paladin, knight) x utility characters (bard, rogue) so that is why i say they are unbalanced It's designed as a disadvantage, so it should not be a good ability for a player.'good' as in game-improving, balanced, ... not as in usefull, powerfull. let me refraise that: Susceptibility to cold iron is not an ability to give a to a race designed for PC's.
mkill 01-14-07, 07:49 AM	LA should be calculated by comparing to other races, not by some point system I agree on that point but so far you did not come up with any LA +1 race we could compare it to. Prove to me they are as powerful as other LA +1 races. IMO don't they [grey elves] have -2 con? (A) humans make good sorcerers, (B) some think dwarfs do need nerving (C) halflings do not make good rogues: they miss darkvision, and their low caring capacity is really anoying. * Yes, grey elves have -2 Con, but +2 Dex and bow proficiency. They are at least as good for a wizard as is the Allurin for a sorc. * Humans are second best at anything. The best sorc race is still missing (kobolds are too... special) * I read the "nerf the dwarf" thread and nothing there convinced me. Missing darkvision is pretty much the only problem for a halfling rogue, but you can use a lantern at low levels and goggles of night later. [grapple for poison kiss] unless you first seduce your target Which does not really help in those 4 encounters per day your DM will throw at you. A seduction needs to be set up in a separate scene, which takes time and will not happen very often. Once initiative is rolled it is a little to late to seduce anyone. And if you want to poison the BBEG on a date, you can just as well spike his drink or stab him when you're close. and why is the DC charisma based and not con-based? (like any normal poison) Because it is not normal poison, it is a weakened version of the succubus energy drain, and that one has a Cha-based DC. [Should Susceptibility to cold iron do Con damage?] so wait, you didn't like it because it can kill? :confused: Yes, I don't like it because it can kill. I am a story-sensitive DM. A dead PC is one thread of the story killed. It's one annoyed player. On the other hand, if I can incapacitate the PC, the story can continue. I can even use it as a story device: BBEG uses cold iron arrows to send the Allurin PC unconcious, grabs him / her and teleports away. Looks like next adventure is a rescue mission! you also said "nothing is wrong when a race is being good at what it was designed to be good at." and here you are saying that it isn't really specialized. Well, the Allurin are in fact not very specialized. They are good as sorcs, sure, but any race with Cha +2 and LA +0 is a good sorc race. You could even make an awakened Gelatinous Cube with Cha +2 and LA +0 and it will be a better sorc race than anything in the PHB. And yes, Allurin were meant to be good sorcs, but they were also meant to be good bards, (evil) paladins, hexblades and warlocks. - a half orc is good at what he is designed for, and less good for other things (that makes him balanced) - allurin are good at what they are designed for, but still good at x spellcasting (sorcerer, shugenja, psionics) (what they wore designed for) x tanking (paladin, knight) x utility characters (bard, rogue) so that is why i say they are unbalanced No, that is not how game balancing works! If a race is extremely good for A, it totally does not matter if the race is bad for B. Because most people would just play it as A anyway. Take the Whisper Gnome. They make great rogues, too good for LA +0, but pathetic Paladins. But how does that matter for the balance of the race? And by the way... - allurin humans are good at what they are designed for, but still good at x spellcasting (sorcerer, shugenja, psionics) (what they wore designed for) x tanking (paladin, knight) x utility characters (bard, rogue) are they unbalanced? :P
Qube 01-14-07, 10:01 AM	I agree on that point but so far you did not come up with any LA +1 race we could compare it to. Prove to me they are as powerful as other LA +1 races. * +2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma. * Medium size. * An aasimar’s base land speed is 30 feet. * Darkvision: Aasimars can see in the dark up to 60 feet. * Racial Skills: Aasimars have a +2 racial bonus on Spot and Listen checks. * Racial Feats: An aasimar gains feats according to its class levels. * Special Attacks (see above): Daylight. * Special Qualities (see above): Resistance to acid 5, cold 5, and electricity 5. * Automatic Languages: Common, Celestial. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Halfling, Sylvan. * Favored Class: Paladin. * Level adjustment +1. * +2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma. * Medium size. * A tiefling’s base land speed is 30 feet. * Darkvision out to 60 feet. * Racial Skills: Tieflings have a +2 racial bonus on Bluff and Hide checks. * Racial Feats: A tiefling gains feats according to its class levels. * Special Attacks (see above): Darkness. * Special Qualities (see above): Resistance to cold 5, electricity 5, and fire 5. * Automatic Languages: Common, Infernal. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Orc. * Favored Class: Rogue. * Level adjustment +1. * +2 Dexterity, +2 Constitution. * A hobgoblin’s base land speed is 30 feet. * Darkvision out to 60 feet. * +4 racial bonus on Move Silently checks. * Automatic Languages: Common, Goblin. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Infernal, Giant, Orc. * Favored Class: Fighter. * Level adjustment +1. all have +2 on 2 stats (tiefling even gets -2 on cha), darkvision, a few skill bonusses, perhaps some resistances, 0 weaknesses * Medium size * Humanoid (planetouched, evil). As per planetouched subtype, Allurin are susceptible to spells that target outsiders such as banishment. As per evil subtype, Allurin can have any alignment, but regardless of their individual alignment they are affected by spells and effects that depend on alignment as if they were evil. They also suffer effects according to their actual alignment. They overcome damage reduction as if their natural weapons and any weapons they wield were evil-aligned. Allurin themselves refer to this as the Taint of Evil. * base land speed 30 ft. * Charisma +2. Allurin have naturally attractive physiques and a vibrant personality. * +2 to Charisma checks and Charisma-based skill checks against those who are sexually attracted to their race and gender * +2 to saves against poison * electricity resistance 5 * Darkvision 60 ft. (Ex): Darkvision is black and white only, but it is otherwise like normal sight, and Allurin can function just fine with no light at all. * Poison Kiss (Ex): An Allurin can weaken another person with a kiss. The victim must succeed at a fortitude save against 10 + half the allurin's level + Cha bonus or take 2 points of Constitution damage. This ability is usable once per round. The target of the kiss must be willing, or the Allurin must succeed at a touch attack during a grapple. * Susceptibility to cold iron (Su): If an Allurin takes damage from a cold iron weapon, he takes one point of strength damage for each 5 full points of damage from the attack. He may take up to three points of ability damage with one hit. There is no saving throw. They also take this damage from creatures who are able to overcome DR / cold iron. * Automatic Languages: Common. Bonus languages: Abyssal, and any spoken in the region of origin. * Favored Class: Sorcerer. Many Allurin develop some degree of sorcerous ability during their life, while few follow that path exclusively. Those who do wield considerable power. * Level Adjustment: +0 +2 charisma, an aditional +2 some skills, some resistences, kiss (powerful unique ability: weren't you the one who said con damage is very powerfull?), bogus weakness Yes, grey elves have -2 Con, but +2 Dex and bow proficiency. They are at least as good for a wizard as is the Allurin for a sorc.+2 dex doesn't help the AC much (increasing a low AC (like a wizards) is less powerfull then increasing that of a high AC character), -2 con is killer for HPMissing darkvision is pretty much the only problem for a halfling rogue, but you can use a lantern at low levels and goggles of night later.try hiding carring a lantern (the goggles cost 12,000 gp !)Really. Then I wonder why orcs, humans, dwarves and even wild elves make better barbarians. But the half-orc is a pitiful example when talking about balanced races, so let's forget about him.i do not agree: this race should stand between the other PHB races. why ignore the half-orc (even if(i'm not saying that he is) he is the weakest of all PHB races? The half-orc makes a great barbarian: even if its yust the mental: there's a elf barbarian <-> theres a half-orc barbarian. Which does not really help in those 4 encounters per day your DM will throw at you. depends if your in a hack-n-slash campaign or a roleplay campaign.Because it is not normal poison, it is a weakened version of the succubus energy drain, and that one has a Cha-based DC. then make it con-drain, not poison. Yes, I don't like it because it can kill. I am a story-sensitive DM. A dead PC is one thread of the story killed. It's one annoyed player. On the other hand, if I can incapacitate the PC, the story can continue. I can even use it as a story device: BBEG uses cold iron arrows to send the Allurin PC unconcious, grabs him / her and teleports away. Looks like next adventure is a rescue mission!if i ever play in your campaign, remind me to have only 3 con :). how about this: the character takes 1 con damage from a hit with a cold iron weapon that does at least 5 damage?The problem is not wounding weapons as such, the problem is a racial disadvantage that allows prepared enemies to kill you easily. That's not how I play the game. tell that to the dragons (i guess you never used cold damage to kill a red dragon?) Well, then he should grow up. I'm the DM, if he doesn't want a challenge he can go play NWN.[/mkill]you're contradicting yourself: do you care that you have an annoyed player or not? [QUOTE=mkill;11176989]Well, the Allurin are in fact not very specialized. They are good as sorcs, sure, but any race with Cha +2 and LA +0 is a good sorc race. show me a core race that has CHA+2 and LA+0. No, that is not how game balancing works! If a race is extremely good for A, it totally does not matter if the race is bad for B. Because most people would just play it as A anyway. Take the Whisper Gnome. They make great rogues, too good for LA +0, but pathetic Paladins. But how does that matter for the balance of the race?thats why i think whisper gnomes should be LA+1 (that the only race that i ever seen where i don't on the LA, all others, including the MM I-IV) And by the way... - allurin humans are good at what they are designed for, but still good at x spellcasting (sorcerer, shugenja, psionics) (what they wore designed for) x tanking (paladin, knight) x utility characters (bard, rogue) are they unbalanced? humans? they are balanced, and they are designed to be good at everything. allurin aren't. IMO, what could fix them: - balance the stats: give them -2 on a stat (i don't see any reason why not) - give them weakness to cold iron as the kilorens (or how is that fey-race from races of the wild called) this way, they have a real weakness, and still have the cold iron weakness flavor.
mkill 01-14-07, 10:58 AM	Now we're talking! First of all, you forgot a few perks of the Aasimar and Tiefling: * Type: Outsider (native) This gives them proficiency with all simple and martial weapons and immunity to a number of spells (the most important are Charm Person, Hold Person and Dominate Person) Then we have 3 resistances vs. one resistance. +2 to Wis and +2 Cha vs. only +2 Cha Aasimar win out against Allurin (we already had that here) Let's not talk about that Hobgoblin. Hobgoblins are much too weak for LA +1 (according to Yaba's system, they are average LA+0, and I agree with that). I'd rather look at the Poison Husk from MMIII for LA +1 that's worth it. all have +2 on 2 stats (tiefling even gets -2 on cha), darkvision, a few skill bonusses, perhaps some resistances, 0 weaknesses That's rather short for a detailed analysis. +2 charisma, an aditional +2 some skills, some resistences, kiss (powerful unique ability: weren't you the one who said con damage is very powerfull?), bogus weakness Game Design 101: Why Con damage is crippling for PCs and doesn't matter much for monsters. Monsters die faster than PCs. During an average gaming session with 3 fights, you have a lot of dead monsters and all PCs should be still alive. While doing Con damage to a PC is crippling, because they die fast (which is not intended), monsters are expected to die. But monsters come in two main types: * Low-HD Mooks: PCs wade through them, they drop after one hit. Don't bother with dealing Con damage, just drop them. * Big Critters: Things that are able to fight a full party alone. These are built to take a lot of damage, so they have a high Con and lots of HD. Doing Con damage to them is a good way of taking them down, but they will have a higher Con than the average PC so it takes longer. Con damage is thus less effective as against PCs. Also, remember that the poison kiss can be used once per round. Susceptibility to cold iron can damage you several times per round. How many arrows can an archer fire per round? How many archers does the enemy need? i do not agree: this race should stand between the other PHB races. why ignore the half-orc (even if(i'm not saying that he is) he is the weakest of all PHB races? The half-orc makes a great barbarian: even if its yust the mental: there's a elf barbarian <-> theres a half-orc barbarian. Wild Elves have +2 Str too, plus the other elven goodies. Well, if you can't see yourself why the half-orc is the weakest race in the PHB just open a thread "I don't believe that half-orcs are the weakest race in the PHB" and see what happens. I'd rather discuss Allurin here. And yes, Allurin do stand between the PHB races, by filling the missing "Cha-bonus" and "evil but sexy" niche. [Chance to seduce the enemy] depends if your in a hack-n-slash campaign or a roleplay campaign. Roleplay campaign: You get to seduce someone once per adventure Hack'n'Slash: You never get to seduce someone then make it con-drain, not poison. Ok. I just renamed it. show me a core race that has CHA+2 and LA+0. Star Elf from OA. Actually, the lack of a good Cha+2 LA +0 race is one of the reasons to create the race in the first place. humans? they are balanced, and they are designed to be good at everything. allurin aren't. Allurin are less optimal choice for monk, wizard, ranger, druid, (standard) paladin, fighter, psion, psychic warrior, scout ... any class for that Cha is a dump stat, and any class that can't afford to have it's reputation ruined by the evil heritage. In addition, humans never have any roleplaying hindrances, while being a demon-spawn will create problems. Anybody who has ever played a drow will know what I'm talking about. The special background and flavor will always prevent that race from becoming standard choice. Just like you don't play a dwarf if you can't imagine your character to be short and bearded, no matter how much that Con bonus is worth. - balance the stats: give them -2 on a stat (i don't see any reason why not) - Unnecessary for balance. Really, just because elves and dwarves have +2 Abc -2 Cde doesn't mean that is necessary for a LA +0 race. - Cha is the classic dump stat, according to the game authors it is the least important stat - Neither humans nor Succubi have any stat penalty, so where should it come from?
mkill 01-14-07, 12:24 PM	Changes: * Allurin suffer a -2 attack penalty when using cold iron weapons. * LA +1 variant added * Allurin Tongue changed to once per day
Thief_of_Hope 01-14-07, 12:41 PM	Changes: * Allurin suffer a -2 attack penalty when using cold iron weapons. * LA +1 variant added * Allurin Tongue changed to once per day Could Allurin Tongue be one of those feats where taking it again gives you another use per day? Or perhaps you can use it once for each Allurin feat your character has? I love the feat, but once per day seems like too few to me. Plus, using it once per day per Allurin feat seems flavorful too, since you can use it more as you embrace more of your succubus heritage. And the game balance would remain (in my mind, anyway).
mkill 01-14-07, 01:09 PM	Could Allurin Tongue be one of those feats where taking it again gives you another use per day? Or perhaps you can use it once for each Allurin feat your character has? I love the feat, but once per day seems like too few to me. Plus, using it once per day per Allurin feat seems flavorful too, since you can use it more as you embrace more of your succubus heritage. And the game balance would remain (in my mind, anyway). Good idea. Done.
Qube 01-15-07, 02:28 AM	Star Elf from OA. i'm quite sure Oriental Adventures doesn't have elves - Unnecessary for balance. Really, just because elves and dwarves have +2 Abc -2 Cde doesn't mean that is necessary for a LA +0 race. - Cha is the classic dump stat, according to the game authors it is the least important stat - Neither humans nor Succubi have any stat penalty, so where should it come from? - charisma is a stat dump if you play with a class that doesn't use it. - humans do not have any stat bonusses either, and succibi have LA. either way, lets solve this as adults: i think i made clear were i stand on the subject (if not see *), how and if you use my advice is totaly up to you. *: give them a more general weakness, make cold iron weakness less 'weaker' (or stronger depending on your POV)
Edo_555 01-15-07, 04:26 AM	Very interesting concept. I like your race. :lop: IMHO maybe, allurin females could look like mix between whites and orientals (eastern european?), but males like middle easterners. Or something like that I alsou would add large eyes. Throught about 'susceptibility to cold iron' I'm not shure. In My Humble Opinion, that isn't enought logical. Why? And don't they would have a problems in everyday live to use simple iron knife? For me, it looks kind of logical to have -2 constitution. (Having big bra would be burden to, for example, runing marathon;) alsou thin waist wouldn't help in famine;) ) Throught +2 Cha and -2 Con, realy isn't equal. Or: FIEND FORM [Allurin] You can change your form into one that closer resembles your Succubus heritage. ... The fiend-form is clearly nonhuman, and can only be disguised at a -5 penalty. I think, they in any form should have disguise and hide penalty. (Being Pamela Anderson, woun't help you to disapear in crowd;) ) p.s. They alsou could be of wilder class (sorcerer among psionics).
mkill 01-15-07, 10:30 AM	IMHO maybe, allurin females could look like mix between whites and orientals (eastern european?), but males like middle easterners. Or something like that I alsou would add large eyes. There is no general rule for this, it depends on how the player describes his individual character and the region the PC comes from. Throught about 'susceptibility to cold iron' I'm not sure. In My Humble Opinion, that isn't enough logical. Why? And don't they would have a problems in everyday live to use simple iron knife? Cold iron is a magical material that has certain special properties that normal iron doesn't have. Allurin can handle normal iron without any problem. Note that cold iron is able to overcome the damage resistance of Succubi, so they are weak against that material. If you don't have damage resistance but are weak against cold iron, obviously it should have another effect. I think, they in any form should have disguise and hide penalty. (Being Pamela Anderson, woun't help you to disapear in crowd;) ) It is much easier to make a beautiful person ugly than the other way around... They alsou could be of wilder class (sorcerer among psionics). Sure, they make pretty good wilders.
Thief_of_Hope 02-06-07, 09:06 PM	Have you considered making Allurin Paragon class levels? That would be multiple levels of delicious and awesome.
mkill 02-07-07, 01:06 AM	Allurin Paragon class added :cool:
Thief_of_Hope 02-08-07, 02:18 PM	Allurin Paragon class added :cool: WOW! It's great! The pictures are awesome too.
Gecon 02-08-07, 05:06 PM	Overall I like this race. Total = 21 FP, LA+1 underpowered. Susceptibility to cold iron: If an Allurin takes 5 or more points of damage from a cold iron weapon, he takes 1 point of strength damage (no save). [-0.5 FP] Hu ? Thats a LOT more than only a small disadvantage to me. Basically you can kill an Allurin very, very fast with Cold Iron weapons. With two-weapon you can get up to 7 attacks per round on a warrior. That could be up to 21 points of Strength damage in a single round (!). Add the fact that most highlevel players will probably have Cold Iron weapons ...
mkill 02-08-07, 08:15 PM	Hu ? Thats a LOT more than only a small disadvantage to me. Basically you can kill an Allurin very, very fast with Cold Iron weapons. With two-weapon you can get up to 7 attacks per round on a warrior. That could be up to 21 points of Strength damage in a single round (!). Add the fact that most highlevel players will probably have Cold Iron weapons ... Finally somebody who agrees with me ... thank you.
Thief_of_Hope 06-03-07, 11:53 PM	I have a question. If an allurin has both the Immunity to Cold Iron feat and the Improved Fiendish Skin feat, is the damage reduction still able to be overcome by cold iron, or does the cold iron immunity get rid of that?
Melayl 06-04-07, 04:12 PM	I like this. It appears well-balanced to me (both the LA 0 and LA +1 versions). Nice flavor, good racial feats. Nice job!
mkill 06-11-07, 11:59 AM	I have a question. If an allurin has both the Immunity to Cold Iron feat and the Improved Fiendish Skin feat, is the damage reduction still able to be overcome by cold iron, or does the cold iron immunity get rid of that? (Sorry for taking so long to answer.) The Immunity to Cold Iron only negates the racial trait, i.e. the strength damage from cold iron. It does not affect any other ability, so your DR is still overcome by cold iron.
Ecureuil_Diabolique 06-12-07, 07:58 PM	What would be great for this is some racial substitution classes. Preferably Bard, Paladin, Sorcerer, or Warlock.
mkill 06-13-07, 01:19 AM	What would be great for this is some racial substitution classes. Preferably Bard, Paladin, Sorcerer, or Warlock. I was thinking about it, but I found that Allurin already work pretty well with those classes and there is no real need for racial substitution levels. I also think they don't need an extra power-up. As for the Paladin, an Allurin Paladin should be the great exception, so they are just too uncommon to make substitution levels. One idea I had was Fighter substitution levels: - Add Bluff and Perform as class skills - Add Allurin racial feats to fighter bonus feats
Ecureuil_Diabolique 06-13-07, 08:45 AM	I was thinking about it, but I found that Allurin already work pretty well with those classes and there is no real need for racial substitution levels. I also think they don't need an extra power-up. As for the Paladin, an Allurin Paladin should be the great exception, so they are just too uncommon to make substitution levels. One idea I had was Fighter substitution levels: - Add Bluff and Perform as class skills - Add Allurin racial feats to fighter bonus feats Well I wasn't thinking a power boost, just a small change to an ability or something to help with the flavor. I think making the racial feats count as fighter feats would be too good for the first few levels. I would probably change the flight into one more feat if you were going to do that. Or put a limit on fiend form. Oh, and great job on this race. Do you have any other ideas in the works?
mkill 06-13-07, 10:16 AM	Well I wasn't thinking a power boost, just a small change to an ability or something to help with the flavor. I think making the racial feats count as fighter feats would be too good for the first few levels. I would probably change the flight into one more feat if you were going to do that. Or put a limit on fiend form. I think flavorwise, standard Bard, Sorcerer, Hexblade and Paladin work fine. But you're right, my Fighter idea was a bit too powerful. Well, it was just a sketch. Oh, and great job on this race. Do you have any other ideas in the works?[/QUOTE] Well, there is the Overlord (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=783855), although I was a bit busy lately and didn't get to finish it. I wish I had more time to write and play the stuff.
Ecureuil_Diabolique 06-13-07, 12:11 PM	I don't know how balanced this would be, but maybe as long as you have at least as many fighter bonus feats as you do racial feats, you can take a racial feat in place of a bonus one?
mkill 06-14-07, 01:51 AM	Well, a fighter can just use his basic feat slots to buy Allurin racial feats and the fighter bonus feats for combat feats. So it should be okay. He could also multiclass into Allurin Paragon.
Ecureuil_Diabolique 06-14-07, 06:50 AM	Yeah, that works too. =P
mkill 07-16-07, 10:38 AM	News for all Allurin fans out there: I have added the Allurin to D&D Wiki, where they have found a home that is not in danger to be pruned. They can be found at: DnD Wiki: Allurin (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Allurin_(DnD_Race)) I also rewrote the racial feats, they now work as Abyssal Heritor feats, as introduced in the Fiendish Codex. This way, they work better with existing rules concerning demons and demonic heritage. DnD Wiki: Abyssal Heritor Feats (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/DnD Abyssal Heritor Feats)
ryuspearhead 07-16-07, 05:44 PM	wow i like this race i think i'll play test it :)
Evilholyguy 07-24-07, 09:05 PM	i have played this race for 4 months now and it is Freakin Sweet!!!! :cool:
Aleolus 08-22-07, 01:55 AM	I like the look quite a bit. I would only make one comment that an Allurin who takes levels of Paladin should lose the Taint of Evil, so as to make it so that other Paladins aren't constantly seeking them out and battling them. As for story, you could simply say that it is almost unheard of for an Allurin to overcome the evil apparent in her bloodline, and only occurs when one devotes themselves so completely to the path of Good that a deity of good (typically their patron deity, if they have one), decides to reward their dedication by cleansing them of the taint within them. This has only occured a bare handful of times, and few Allurins are aware that the option even exists. How this would work with in game mechanics would be with the following substitution level. Allurin Paladin Level taken: 1st. Benefit replaced: Detect Evil Effect: A first level Allurin Paladin who takes this substitution level gives up their ability to Detect Evil at will. However, many find the benefit more than outweighs this sacrifice. Upon taking this substitution level, the affected Allurin permanently looses both her evil subtype and the Taint of Evil racial feature. He/She no longer registers as evil to effects that detect or affect evil creatures, nor does he/she take penalties for using objects or spells with the good descriptor.
mkill 08-23-07, 02:08 PM	@Evilholyguy: Glad to hear! What classes did you take? @Aleolus: You're defeating the whole point of the Taint of Evil. You can't get rid of it. Full Stop. If you want to play an Allurin Paladin, you can do it, but you have to accept the fact that every other Paladin out there will detect evil in you. You'll even detect evil in yourself. Deal with it. It is a lesson for all Paladins out there who only work Plan A: "Detect Evil -> it glows -> kill it". If your DM is constantly sending you Paladins of that type, you probably have the wrong DM for that kind of character.
Arscura 09-07-07, 07:03 AM	The race looks lovely (really where do you guys get the pictures from) and well balanced, but.... Daughter of Succubus = Alu Fiend Son of Succubus (actually any general human father and demon mother) = Cambion I don't have their stats, but that is what is the official material. Must I see the Allurin more as a special Tieflings, as are Fey'ri, Whisper, Maegulth etc.? Just as a question.
mkill 09-07-07, 11:31 PM	The race looks lovely (really where do you guys get the pictures from) and well balanced, but.... Daughter of Succubus = Alu Fiend Son of Succubus (actually any general human father and demon mother) = Cambion I don't have their stats, but that is what is the official material. Must I see the Allurin more as a special Tieflings, as are Fey'ri, Whisper, Maegulth etc.? Just as a question. I personally consider them a variant of the Tiefling, but feel free to use whatever explanation works for your campaign.
Arscura 09-10-07, 10:08 AM	As a quick comparison: http://www.bluelizardlounge.org/races.htm And thus I also apoligize, for I got the Cambion mixed-up, but they are children of Incubi (the male form) than. Thus still both combined are parents to Allurin, but they seem a bit weaker, seeing the base creature is a half-elf and they have +3 ECL (which is incredibly high in my eyes... and I have to say I don't understand -2 Cha for Cambion, for in books they are always charismatic). Oh, well... DM intervention is always possible. I indeed reckon special kind of Tiefling is the best way to go. There are alot of those anyway. For ever race one almost. On the race itself though I find the Cold Iron weakness not a big disadvantage, as well... how many enemies are going to use that. Unless you send some special hunter after the Allurin no creature would probably have a cold iron weapon equiped. Neither is this trait shared really by their parent. It may be more intriguing to take the will save from the kiss also to just not 'simply seducing' creatures forward, abide with a lower DC. This ties in with their heritage, and can be inconvient and possibly funny at moments. Only one save needed per character DC of 10 + Cha modifier?