Alternate wizard [Archive] - Wizards Community

Alternate wizard [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
danielwhited
09-04-07, 04:24 PM ok this is stupid...but if i wanted to be a wizard OTHER than an elf, what would be best? i know that Humans and Half-Elves make good wizards...but what about halflings and the hundereds of other races?
Borris
09-04-07, 09:22 PM Elf isn't bad, but it isn't amazingly good either, unless you're talking about the Gray Elf from the Monster Manual, who get -2 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Int. The weapon proficiencies are a good thing to have at low levels (especially the longbow), but you probably won't be shooting anything else than spells once you reach 1oth-level or so.

Human is always a solid choice. They have no disadvantage, and really nice bonuses. They're especially good if you plan to take a prestige class that requires a lot of feats (say, three or more), often allowing you to enter a level earlier than another race.

Haflings are a great choice for wizards that specialize in ranged touch attacks. With that Dex bonus and a +1 size bonus to attacks, you'll hit more than any other race. +2 to AC is nice, too, and so are the other little bonuses. And the Str penalty doesn't really matter for a wizard.

If you want to play an illusionist (or just cast a lot of Illusions), then gnome goes from average to one of the best choices. Small size is usually a bonus for a primary spellcaster, and the +2 Con bonus can go a long way when you have d4 hit dice. And the +1 DC on Illusion spells is as good as the bonus human would give you.

Dwarves are also surprisingly good as wizards. The Con bonus is still just as nice, and a Cha penalty won't really hurt you. Besides, you can carry up to your heavy load with spped reduction. If your Dex score is between 14 and 17, though, you won't want to go above Medium load, but that's still better than any other wizard. And the bonuses on saves against poison and spells are very nice for someone who has weak Fort and Ref saves.

Don't play a half-orc. The Int penalty prevents them from ever being even average wizards. Stay away from half-elves as well. I don't know what made you think they make good wizards. The only unique ability they have is a bonsu to two Charisma-based skills wizards don't have as class skills. Your Cha will probably be fairly low, and chances are you'll never buy ranks in Diplomacy or Gather Information since they'd cost you double. On everything else, they're either as good as or worse than elves.

There are also many races in books beyond the PHB, but I'll stop here for now. JUst ask if you want to know my opinion about some other race.
Climhazzard
09-04-07, 09:59 PM I second everything Borris said. Basically, if you want a great wizard race, ask your DM nicely if you can be a gray elf. Unlike the basic D&D elves (the ones in the PHB) the gray elves are better suited mechanically and flavor-wise to being wizards.

But stay away from half-elf.
Angel Black
09-04-07, 10:28 PM ok this is stupid...but if i wanted to be a wizard OTHER than an elf, what would be best? i know that Humans and Half-Elves make good wizards...but what about halflings and the hundereds of other races?

Goblin:
Swift creature that can ride his own familiar.Hide bonus is the best if you have a few of "those" spells.

Bugbear:
You trade wizard levels for a bunch of agile defensive fighter like features.

Hobgoblin:
I smell an Eldritch Knigth.

Gnoll:
Penalty to intelligence.Kobold is better.

Lizardfolk
A kobold is better

Merfolk,Locathah
Maybe if you really need that bonus to swim...

Troglodyte:
Ac is good, Stench is always nice, but you got a penalty to Int and loose some wizard levels.Most of the time: Not.
DwarfPcfan
09-05-07, 10:55 AM DwarfPcfan's list of the best wizard races out there, without LA!

1-Thinker gnome (Dragonlance campaign setting): -2 str,+2 dex, +2 int,-2 wisdom, small size, speed 30ft, assorted racial bonuses related to craft and knowledge checks.
2-Grey Elf (MM):-2 str,+2 dex,-2 con,+2 int, elven racial bonuses
3-Silvanesti elf (dragonlance campaign setting):+2 dex,-2 con,+2 int, -2 cha, assorted elven related bonuses and bonuses related to knowledge arcana, diplomacy etc (despite the cha penalty)
4-Gold elf (FF campaign setting): -2 con, +2 int, assorted elven bonuses and bonuses concerning spellcraft etc.
5-deep imaskari (underdark FF suplement): -2 dex,+2 int, recover 1 spell per day, bonuses concerning spellcraft etc
6-Rock gnome (PHB): +2 con, -2 str, small size, assorted bonuses concerning illusions, spell like abilities, craft bonuses, alchemy bonuses, weapon familiarity, racial combat bonuses
7-Hill dwarf (PHB): +2 con, -2 cha, dwarven racial traits, enhanced carrying capacity, weapon familiarity, combat bonuses
8-Strongheart halfling (FF campaign setting): -2 str,+2 dex, bonuses on climb, jump, hide, move silently, thrown weapons attack bonus, small size, bonus feat
9-Human (PHB, duh!): extra skill points, language, and bonus feat
10-Venerable dragonwrought kobold(Races of the dragon): -4 strenght,+2 dex,-2 con,+3 int,+3wis,+3 cha,+1 natural armor, small size, 30 ft speed, skill bonuses, dragon type, arcana related bonuses

There the top 10 list of wizard races without LA (in no particular order)!
Rogue Shadows
09-05-07, 11:17 AM Kobold for any LA +0 Arcane Spellcaster
- You get +1 AC for being small
- You get +1 AC for the +2 to Dexterity that you have
- You get +1 AC from natural armor.

Thus, assuming you rolled a 10 for Dexterity, you have a 13 Armor Class, before any buff spells or magic items. A human with comperable ability scores has only a 10 AC, and even a halfing has only a 12. Added bonus: since you already have natural armor, you don't have to invest in an amulet of natural armor +1 the way other wizards do, though at hgiher levels you still need to buy the amulet of natural armor +2 (remember, natural armor bonuses don't stack with themselves)

That's why kobolds make good arcane casters.

A few other bits and peices.

- Penalty to STR and CON. The CON hurts, but no more than it would an elf. The STR penalty is meaningless.
- Darkvision is useful, especially if you play a character who wants to be able to scout ahead of the party.
- You're Small but still have a base speed of 30 feet, making you just as fast as the lauded elf wizard.
- The smaller carrying capacity kind of hurts, but I have three words for you: Heward's Handy Haversack. Worship it.
locustechpriest
09-05-07, 12:44 PM remember, natural armor bonuses don't stack with themselves

True, but...

This amulet, usually crafted from bone or beast scales, toughens the wearer’s body and flesh, giving him an enhancement bonus to his natural armor bonus of from +1 to +5, depending on the kind of amulet.

The ammy does not provide a natural armor bonus, it augments the one you have (including the +0 for most races). So you can still benefit from it, making you all the more tough.
Salla
09-05-07, 12:46 PM Definitely Dwarf. CON bonus helps the wizard where he needs it most.

Heck, Dwarves make better wizards than elves.
Shaggy_Shaggs
09-05-07, 02:33 PM I played a dwarf wizard with Con 20 and a waraxe (style points) one time. Used save-or-suck spells and followed up with a coup de grace from the axe. Good times. He outlived two half-orc barbarian partners. :D

Goblin would be my first choice though. Benefits of being small, benefits of increased Dex, no loss of Con, darkvision for those hard to see places where you don't want to waste a slot on the spell, and 30' movement so you can stay the hell out of melee. The ride bonus is nice too, if you got an improved familiar of size Medium or better you could ride it around. Or you could just spend a pittance for a donkey and get it war trained (which I'd rather do over blowing a feat on Improved Familiar).

Regarding Dex vs Con on wizards: both are very very good, but if you can afford to have both, I think Dex is the one you should want more. Con gives you Concentration, Fort, and hp. Dex gives you ranged touch attacks, AC, Ref, and initiative. In the high levels where an encounter can be ended with one well-chosen spell, initiative counts for a lot.
danielwhited
09-05-07, 08:18 PM whoa 0_o thanks guys. i never really considerd a dwarf a good wizard choice. i was always just human (cant go wrong with those guys)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
danielwhited 09-04-07, 04:24 PM	ok this is stupid...but if i wanted to be a wizard OTHER than an elf, what would be best? i know that Humans and Half-Elves make good wizards...but what about halflings and the hundereds of other races?
Borris 09-04-07, 09:22 PM	Elf isn't bad, but it isn't amazingly good either, unless you're talking about the Gray Elf from the Monster Manual, who get -2 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Int. The weapon proficiencies are a good thing to have at low levels (especially the longbow), but you probably won't be shooting anything else than spells once you reach 1oth-level or so. Human is always a solid choice. They have no disadvantage, and really nice bonuses. They're especially good if you plan to take a prestige class that requires a lot of feats (say, three or more), often allowing you to enter a level earlier than another race. Haflings are a great choice for wizards that specialize in ranged touch attacks. With that Dex bonus and a +1 size bonus to attacks, you'll hit more than any other race. +2 to AC is nice, too, and so are the other little bonuses. And the Str penalty doesn't really matter for a wizard. If you want to play an illusionist (or just cast a lot of Illusions), then gnome goes from average to one of the best choices. Small size is usually a bonus for a primary spellcaster, and the +2 Con bonus can go a long way when you have d4 hit dice. And the +1 DC on Illusion spells is as good as the bonus human would give you. Dwarves are also surprisingly good as wizards. The Con bonus is still just as nice, and a Cha penalty won't really hurt you. Besides, you can carry up to your heavy load with spped reduction. If your Dex score is between 14 and 17, though, you won't want to go above Medium load, but that's still better than any other wizard. And the bonuses on saves against poison and spells are very nice for someone who has weak Fort and Ref saves. Don't play a half-orc. The Int penalty prevents them from ever being even average wizards. Stay away from half-elves as well. I don't know what made you think they make good wizards. The only unique ability they have is a bonsu to two Charisma-based skills wizards don't have as class skills. Your Cha will probably be fairly low, and chances are you'll never buy ranks in Diplomacy or Gather Information since they'd cost you double. On everything else, they're either as good as or worse than elves. There are also many races in books beyond the PHB, but I'll stop here for now. JUst ask if you want to know my opinion about some other race.
Climhazzard 09-04-07, 09:59 PM	I second everything Borris said. Basically, if you want a great wizard race, ask your DM nicely if you can be a gray elf. Unlike the basic D&D elves (the ones in the PHB) the gray elves are better suited mechanically and flavor-wise to being wizards. But stay away from half-elf.
Angel Black 09-04-07, 10:28 PM	ok this is stupid...but if i wanted to be a wizard OTHER than an elf, what would be best? i know that Humans and Half-Elves make good wizards...but what about halflings and the hundereds of other races? Goblin: Swift creature that can ride his own familiar.Hide bonus is the best if you have a few of "those" spells. Bugbear: You trade wizard levels for a bunch of agile defensive fighter like features. Hobgoblin: I smell an Eldritch Knigth. Gnoll: Penalty to intelligence.Kobold is better. Lizardfolk A kobold is better Merfolk,Locathah Maybe if you really need that bonus to swim... Troglodyte: Ac is good, Stench is always nice, but you got a penalty to Int and loose some wizard levels.Most of the time: Not.
DwarfPcfan 09-05-07, 10:55 AM	DwarfPcfan's list of the best wizard races out there, without LA! 1-Thinker gnome (Dragonlance campaign setting): -2 str,+2 dex, +2 int,-2 wisdom, small size, speed 30ft, assorted racial bonuses related to craft and knowledge checks. 2-Grey Elf (MM):-2 str,+2 dex,-2 con,+2 int, elven racial bonuses 3-Silvanesti elf (dragonlance campaign setting):+2 dex,-2 con,+2 int, -2 cha, assorted elven related bonuses and bonuses related to knowledge arcana, diplomacy etc (despite the cha penalty) 4-Gold elf (FF campaign setting): -2 con, +2 int, assorted elven bonuses and bonuses concerning spellcraft etc. 5-deep imaskari (underdark FF suplement): -2 dex,+2 int, recover 1 spell per day, bonuses concerning spellcraft etc 6-Rock gnome (PHB): +2 con, -2 str, small size, assorted bonuses concerning illusions, spell like abilities, craft bonuses, alchemy bonuses, weapon familiarity, racial combat bonuses 7-Hill dwarf (PHB): +2 con, -2 cha, dwarven racial traits, enhanced carrying capacity, weapon familiarity, combat bonuses 8-Strongheart halfling (FF campaign setting): -2 str,+2 dex, bonuses on climb, jump, hide, move silently, thrown weapons attack bonus, small size, bonus feat 9-Human (PHB, duh!): extra skill points, language, and bonus feat 10-Venerable dragonwrought kobold(Races of the dragon): -4 strenght,+2 dex,-2 con,+3 int,+3wis,+3 cha,+1 natural armor, small size, 30 ft speed, skill bonuses, dragon type, arcana related bonuses There the top 10 list of wizard races without LA (in no particular order)!
Rogue Shadows 09-05-07, 11:17 AM	Kobold for any LA +0 Arcane Spellcaster - You get +1 AC for being small - You get +1 AC for the +2 to Dexterity that you have - You get +1 AC from natural armor. Thus, assuming you rolled a 10 for Dexterity, you have a 13 Armor Class, before any buff spells or magic items. A human with comperable ability scores has only a 10 AC, and even a halfing has only a 12. Added bonus: since you already have natural armor, you don't have to invest in an amulet of natural armor +1 the way other wizards do, though at hgiher levels you still need to buy the amulet of natural armor +2 (remember, natural armor bonuses don't stack with themselves) That's why kobolds make good arcane casters. A few other bits and peices. - Penalty to STR and CON. The CON hurts, but no more than it would an elf. The STR penalty is meaningless. - Darkvision is useful, especially if you play a character who wants to be able to scout ahead of the party. - You're Small but still have a base speed of 30 feet, making you just as fast as the lauded elf wizard. - The smaller carrying capacity kind of hurts, but I have three words for you: Heward's Handy Haversack. Worship it.
locustechpriest 09-05-07, 12:44 PM	remember, natural armor bonuses don't stack with themselves True, but... This amulet, usually crafted from bone or beast scales, toughens the wearer’s body and flesh, giving him an enhancement bonus to his natural armor bonus of from +1 to +5, depending on the kind of amulet. The ammy does not provide a natural armor bonus, it augments the one you have (including the +0 for most races). So you can still benefit from it, making you all the more tough.
Salla 09-05-07, 12:46 PM	Definitely Dwarf. CON bonus helps the wizard where he needs it most. Heck, Dwarves make better wizards than elves.
Shaggy_Shaggs 09-05-07, 02:33 PM	I played a dwarf wizard with Con 20 and a waraxe (style points) one time. Used save-or-suck spells and followed up with a coup de grace from the axe. Good times. He outlived two half-orc barbarian partners. :D Goblin would be my first choice though. Benefits of being small, benefits of increased Dex, no loss of Con, darkvision for those hard to see places where you don't want to waste a slot on the spell, and 30' movement so you can stay the hell out of melee. The ride bonus is nice too, if you got an improved familiar of size Medium or better you could ride it around. Or you could just spend a pittance for a donkey and get it war trained (which I'd rather do over blowing a feat on Improved Familiar). Regarding Dex vs Con on wizards: both are very very good, but if you can afford to have both, I think Dex is the one you should want more. Con gives you Concentration, Fort, and hp. Dex gives you ranged touch attacks, AC, Ref, and initiative. In the high levels where an encounter can be ended with one well-chosen spell, initiative counts for a lot.
danielwhited 09-05-07, 08:18 PM	whoa 0_o thanks guys. i never really considerd a dwarf a good wizard choice. i was always just human (cant go wrong with those guys)