"Dumb" Lizardfolk question [Archive] - Wizards Community

"Dumb" Lizardfolk question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Anaesthesia
10-04-07, 11:32 AM My character I'm playing in a current campaign died, but I can be reincarnated (I had a reincarnate scroll on me when I died, and one of the other spellcasters that's still alive can cast it on me- we had an encounter with a young adult or older red dragon, and a 3 legged golem at the same time-which I think was too much for us to handle as half the party is dead and we're at 8th level).

But back to my question: I was thinking of reincarnating into a Lizardfolk, and I know the LA is +1; but I was reading that they have 2 levels of Humaniod. So if I did my class level 5+LA 1+Humaniod Levels 2=8, does that work if I'm trying to do an 8th level character? (I just wanted to make sure I wasn't making a mistake or something shouldn't be there or whatever)
Balthanon
10-04-07, 11:39 AM Yes, that is how you would handle the ECL for a Lizardfolk.
ChaoticAwesome
10-04-07, 02:05 PM problem is, you dont choose what you reincarnate into. roll yourself a d100 and hope it doesnt land on "frog"
Tsuul
10-05-07, 03:42 AM Reincarnate is special, you don't get the racial HD of the lizardman.
Go through the spell step by step.
-Keep HPs
-Keeps skills
-Lose previous racial benefits (stat adj, darkvision, ect.)
-Gain new racial benefits
ToastedAmphibian
10-05-07, 03:54 AM From reading over reincarnate, it looks like you wouldnot gain any racial HD. You would gain a +1 LA if you did get lizardfolk (Exactly a 1% chance of that by the way) but you would also lose a level for being reincarnated.

By "getting frog" ill assume you mean 99- Troglodyte.
Hope for a 01, everyone loves a bugbear.

Happy randomization!

edit: on a side note, anyone every try to reincarnate a tifleing? I bet that would make an interesting list.... Arrowhawk-Xorn, anyone?
Balthanon
10-05-07, 12:39 PM Reincarnate is special, you don't get the racial HD of the lizardman.

The spell doesn't actually specify that you don't add the racial hit dice for the creature (other than the lines about changing BAB, saves, and hit points) and that introduces a number of issues in terms of how to balance the level adjustment that the spell provides. Personally, I think it is probably easier to just use the race as described in the Monster Manual (particularly if the original posters DM is letting her choose which race she "randomly" reincarnates into). Overall, reincarnate doesn't really deal with the question of racial hit dice well.
ToastedAmphibian
10-05-07, 03:43 PM Well, the fact that your HP, BAB, Saves, and Skills dont change, kinda imply that you dont gain any hit dice, which tend to alter ALL of these things.....
Balthanon
10-05-07, 05:25 PM Well, the fact that your HP, BAB, Saves, and Skills dont change, kinda imply that you dont gain any hit dice, which tend to alter ALL of these things.....

Which was probably geared primarily towards the normal creatures on the list-- like I said, I don't think they really thought through the racial hit dice issue.

The main problem is that if you take away the racial hit dice on the lizardfolk, the calculation of its level adjustment goes away as well. The +1 that they have, despite having three natural weapons, a net ability score bonus, +5 natural armor and some decent skill bonuses is because they have 2 racial hit dice. Once you pull that away, all of a sudden they aren't really all that balanced at +1 LA.
deathbane
10-05-07, 09:23 PM The spell is poorly written. They should have let the player come back as a different race with an equal ECL even if it meant losing class levels or never have made the spell at all. The spell could be interpreted in several ways, and I would just recommend your DM either bring you back with a level adjustment even if puts you over the party, but hopefully not by much, or he make you drop class levels so you are the same ECL as the party, and ignore the part about keeping the same BAB.
Nephlite
10-05-07, 09:40 PM There is no clear indication you even get LA.

Really, specifically: you become a Lizardfolk: Just physical stats, racial benefits like hold breath, etc. NA
No HD or LA added.

Reincarnate doesn't say you gain them: it ignores this. Someone could ask Cut Serv for a laugh (maybe they will give a good reason why one way or other).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Anaesthesia 10-04-07, 11:32 AM	My character I'm playing in a current campaign died, but I can be reincarnated (I had a reincarnate scroll on me when I died, and one of the other spellcasters that's still alive can cast it on me- we had an encounter with a young adult or older red dragon, and a 3 legged golem at the same time-which I think was too much for us to handle as half the party is dead and we're at 8th level). But back to my question: I was thinking of reincarnating into a Lizardfolk, and I know the LA is +1; but I was reading that they have 2 levels of Humaniod. So if I did my class level 5+LA 1+Humaniod Levels 2=8, does that work if I'm trying to do an 8th level character? (I just wanted to make sure I wasn't making a mistake or something shouldn't be there or whatever)
Balthanon 10-04-07, 11:39 AM	Yes, that is how you would handle the ECL for a Lizardfolk.
ChaoticAwesome 10-04-07, 02:05 PM	problem is, you dont choose what you reincarnate into. roll yourself a d100 and hope it doesnt land on "frog"
Tsuul 10-05-07, 03:42 AM	Reincarnate is special, you don't get the racial HD of the lizardman. Go through the spell step by step. -Keep HPs -Keeps skills -Lose previous racial benefits (stat adj, darkvision, ect.) -Gain new racial benefits
ToastedAmphibian 10-05-07, 03:54 AM	From reading over reincarnate, it looks like you wouldnot gain any racial HD. You would gain a +1 LA if you did get lizardfolk (Exactly a 1% chance of that by the way) but you would also lose a level for being reincarnated. By "getting frog" ill assume you mean 99- Troglodyte. Hope for a 01, everyone loves a bugbear. Happy randomization! edit: on a side note, anyone every try to reincarnate a tifleing? I bet that would make an interesting list.... Arrowhawk-Xorn, anyone?
Balthanon 10-05-07, 12:39 PM	Reincarnate is special, you don't get the racial HD of the lizardman. The spell doesn't actually specify that you don't add the racial hit dice for the creature (other than the lines about changing BAB, saves, and hit points) and that introduces a number of issues in terms of how to balance the level adjustment that the spell provides. Personally, I think it is probably easier to just use the race as described in the Monster Manual (particularly if the original posters DM is letting her choose which race she "randomly" reincarnates into). Overall, reincarnate doesn't really deal with the question of racial hit dice well.
ToastedAmphibian 10-05-07, 03:43 PM	Well, the fact that your HP, BAB, Saves, and Skills dont change, kinda imply that you dont gain any hit dice, which tend to alter ALL of these things.....
Balthanon 10-05-07, 05:25 PM	Well, the fact that your HP, BAB, Saves, and Skills dont change, kinda imply that you dont gain any hit dice, which tend to alter ALL of these things..... Which was probably geared primarily towards the normal creatures on the list-- like I said, I don't think they really thought through the racial hit dice issue. The main problem is that if you take away the racial hit dice on the lizardfolk, the calculation of its level adjustment goes away as well. The +1 that they have, despite having three natural weapons, a net ability score bonus, +5 natural armor and some decent skill bonuses is because they have 2 racial hit dice. Once you pull that away, all of a sudden they aren't really all that balanced at +1 LA.
deathbane 10-05-07, 09:23 PM	The spell is poorly written. They should have let the player come back as a different race with an equal ECL even if it meant losing class levels or never have made the spell at all. The spell could be interpreted in several ways, and I would just recommend your DM either bring you back with a level adjustment even if puts you over the party, but hopefully not by much, or he make you drop class levels so you are the same ECL as the party, and ignore the part about keeping the same BAB.
Nephlite 10-05-07, 09:40 PM	There is no clear indication you even get LA. Really, specifically: you become a Lizardfolk: Just physical stats, racial benefits like hold breath, etc. NA No HD or LA added. Reincarnate doesn't say you gain them: it ignores this. Someone could ask Cut Serv for a laugh (maybe they will give a good reason why one way or other).