Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zuractai 04-25-07, 12:01 PM	This isn't exactly a race, but I figure Level Adjustments fit the closes into this board, so here I go. What would be the "LA" of having alot more gold worth of items then standard for your level? Now the reason I put LA in quotes is because it would be less of a level adjustment, and more of a starting at a lower level, since as you gain levels the effective richness goes down, and you could easily have your +5 sword lost/destroyed/stolen, and no longer be rich. I also know that it would be relative, because a 1st level human fighter with a helm of underwater action in the middle of the desert isn't realy any more powerful, so it is also assuming the items are generaly useful. As a base I would say it would have to be the gold of a charecter at least 2 levels higher, since a first level char with the gold of a second, is not as powerful as a 2nd with the same amount of gold. The effective power change could also vary for certain levels. This is also assuming creating or entering a char into a quest with more items, not saying you should give someone a LA just because you give them some expensive item. I added CR increase as well, because I could see a CR 10 Monster be a bit more powerful if it suddenly was duel wielding +5 vorpal swords.
Argaud 04-25-07, 02:28 PM	This isn't exactly a race, but I figure Level Adjustments fit the closes into this board, so here I go. [...] I added CR increase as well, because I could see a CR 10 Monster be a bit more powerful if it suddenly was duel wielding +5 vorpal swords. You are right Monster possesses special attacks or qualities that significantly improve combat effectiveness +2 to CR Monster possesses special attacks or qualities that improve combat effectiveness in a minor way +1 to CR But like most things CR or LA related the rules are rather vague.
Kouk 04-25-07, 02:52 PM	This isn't level adjustment because a guy's gear shouldn't make him lower level than other party members for the reasons you stated that gear is not always useful or "there". Having higher than average gear would affect a monster's CR, so it would raise the "CR" of the player, which would only mean you need to take that into consideration when putting him up against monsters. If you have a +5 weapon at level 1, a normally CR 1/2 orc is suddenly a lot less of a challenge and should give less XP. LA follows a character his whole career (unless he gets reincarnated as something without LA), changing a player's "CR" only bumps the "EL" of the party.
Shadowhamster 04-25-07, 03:18 PM	I disagree Kouk....it's a problem i've mildly played with in my head. A popular template to view would be something like a prince/princess/noble who is only starting out. Several things would follow the character and half to be taken into consideration for the starting LA: -Noble blood may effect certain things, like the reactions of NPCs....specific NPCs may be intimidated or charmed more easily by such a character. -A noble, save for redundant excuses, will most likely have monetary benefits their entire career that other PCs will just not get. Starting off your carreer with a well-bred horse to more money on start up and throughout their career. I've seen the issue handled by making it a seperate class. This seems the most likely action to work. Standard to slightly above standard HD and the abilities to call in favors and bonuses to diplomatic/mercantile situations. The rank of the noble may reflect how many levels they can take in the class. The last level meaning they have grown to their position. Anyway, if you wanted to avoid limiting their class choices, the starting LA is a seperate question I think worth asking.
YabaTheWhat 04-25-07, 03:43 PM	Now the reason I put LA in quotes is because it would be less of a level adjustment, and more of a starting at a lower levelThis seems somehow related to the topic posted here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=835860). With regards to the question of exactly how far to set a character back, consider using the standard conversion from the item crafting tables. For every 25 GP the person gets above the standard issue, deduct 1 XP from their starting total.
Kouk 04-25-07, 11:41 PM	I disagree Kouk....it's a problem i've mildly played with in my head. A popular template to view would be something like a prince/princess/noble who is only starting out. Several things would follow the character and half to be taken into consideration for the starting LA: -Noble blood may effect certain things, like the reactions of NPCs....specific NPCs may be intimidated or charmed more easily by such a character. -A noble, save for redundant excuses, will most likely have monetary benefits their entire career that other PCs will just not get. Starting off your carreer with a well-bred horse to more money on start up and throughout their career. Well, from the OP's post he just talks about having a lot of starting money. If the DM wants to allow one of the characters to have so much power by virtue of his birth I guess he is allowed to, but from all the monsters with LA I have seen, it has never had anything to do with their social standing or treasure amount listed, unless their social status comes by virtue of their physical or magical power. LA is pretty much all about combat and other things that have rules associated with them, not the game world the campaign is in or the roleplaying involved with it. No matter how influential the prince is in his country, most of the time a purple worm won't give a crap. If you make a campaign that is almost exclusively RP and skill and profession checks, then maybe being a noble would be worth something along the lines of a "LA", but that would also have to be tied in to your character class somehow because LA is there to blunt your character class advancement. If you make the character with 18 times the normal starting wealth, he will be stronger than a naked clone, sure. If you have that guy get captured and all his stuff is stolen, does he still have a Level Adjustment for having started with so much? Is it a negative LA because he has nothing and his party members are still equipped? Doesn't make much sense to me. If you want to go to the trouble of making a class that is based around his ability to get his subjects to do things for him that's fine, but according to the original posting it is a character that just has a bunch of money. Maybe he found a treasure chest under a rock or something. I was wrong to say "CR" earlier but I wanted to keep it simple by relating the character's power straight to that of a monster. Having +4 stat boosting items and magical weapons and armor would most likely boost your Effective Character Level somewhat, if you are much lower level than those items were intended to be given out. The higher ECL would modify your experience awards, but Level Adjustment is based on the creature's birth or a template that modifies its body or abilities. Having Spell Resistance, and a few extra arms with which to hold weapons would merit a LA while a weapon which practically anyone could use wouldn't.
runestar 04-26-07, 12:30 AM	PGTF has a feat which gives you 300 extra starting gold. Depending on what region you start in, this usually lets you start with a masterwork bonus item as well(typically an extra 300gp worth of eq). In the long run, it is unlikely to make much of an impact, so I think it can simply be allowed as is.:)
Master_of_the_Arcane 04-26-07, 12:52 AM	This seems somehow related to the topic posted here (http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=835860). With regards to the question of exactly how far to set a character back, consider using the standard conversion from the item crafting tables. For every 25 GP the person gets above the standard issue, deduct 1 XP from their starting total. I'd actually make this 1 XP per 12.5 gp, because while you only pay 1 XP per 25 gp in crafting, you also only get half the cost, 12.5 gp, negated. Now this still lets someone spend 2,000 XP for 25,000 gold worth of gear. Is a level 2 with 25 k of stuff stronger than a level 3 (or a level 10 with 125,000 gold more than a level 11)? Probably, which suggests to me that the XP- gold formula used by item creation is unbalanced.
Zuractai 04-26-07, 05:19 PM	incase I didn't make it clear in my origonal post, by "LA" I simply ment how many levels higher they would be equal to. So if a quest began at 13th level, and there was a level 11 human, who has X amount more gold to make his around as powerful. He would get XP as a 11th level char, so would partialy catch up with his party members, while at the same time the effective amount of his wealth would go down. I like the idea of trading in some amount of XP for an amount of gold worth of items. I will have to look at the tables to see what seems like a fair exchange rate, and to see if it should be variable...
awaken_D_M_golem 04-26-07, 07:35 PM	HI. I'm not usually poking around "here". Consider the Aristocrat - having 2-3 times the starting gp doesn't bump it out of NPC land. The feat Runestar mentioned is Mercantile. It also allows you to buy one item at 25% off, once per level (iffy on this part). NPCs of 1st level get 900 gp. NPCs of 2nd level get 2000 gp. Then they fall behind. That sounds like one big mixing bowl of not broken good or bad ... for the 1st two levels. Obviously a 10th level NPC has less gear than PCs. As good a guideline as you'll get, is the MM advancing monsters stuff. Two npc classes = One pc class, but only up to the monsters HD. Conversion ... I have no idea. How much gold are you talking about ?
neilthrun 04-26-07, 07:36 PM	I like the idea of trading in some amount of XP for an amount of gold worth of items. I will have to look at the tables to see what seems like a fair exchange rate, and to see if it should be variable... there are already a couple implimentations of this. Namely item creation feats, you exchange gold and xp for something more valuable, but less liquid. Your gold and xp can be used for alot of things, a +5 longsword has limited uses, even if you get creative. Another example which inlcludes trading straight xp for material items is the Kensai class. On the reverse side is the ancestral relic feat, inwhich you trade gold for a powerfull item, or the Vow of Poverty feat, which trades all of your material wealth for power. None of these replicate exactly what you wanted, trading xp for gold, but these are good places to start looking so you could create such a feat, template or prc. I really like the idea of a prc that would allow you to magicaly turn your xp into gold. EDIT: Also check out the Menacing brute class, with a search check he many once per day scavage a non magical item worth up to 200 gold.
awaken_D_M_golem 04-27-07, 04:24 PM	Heh, Menacing Brute, i did not know that. So you make a build totally dedicated to Craft skill X or Profession skill Y. How much gold are you making, relative to effectively being a Commoner with some extra stuff ?! Consider an Amish horse with Horseshoes of Intellect, and a chain shirt under that "uniform" ... an Amish super-hero ?