Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ahiru 12-29-07, 04:53 AM	Some time back I posed a race of the same name, but I found myself unable to retrieve my account, and since there is no search function to locate my old thread (edit: ooops, it seems that there's a search function now. my bad), I've just went and created a new one. I have changed it around a bit, just a bit, for my new campaign, and I am wondering what people think. It's basicly "just another" feline humanoid, but a bit different from the ones you usually see here. Anyway, it's not like I'm trying to be original here. I wanted something quite different from the standard races, but yet simple and versetile, that would work well as a major playable race in my setting. The picture below is edited from a sketch I found on the internet. What Sets This Race Apart • It is small, quick and agile, but with an intelligence penalty. Other common playable races with intelligence penalties that I know of more or less fit the "big, slow, ugly brute" stereotype. • Unlike any of the standard races, it has a speed bonus. • Hefty, but justifiable (claws for climbing, tail for balance, cat ears for listening), skill bonuses. More than any of the standard races. • It's focused on acrobatics (balance, climbing and jumping), unlike any of the standard races. • No standard race has a natural attack. In this case the natural claw attack makes sense, and can be both fun and useful, especially for a rogue. • Short lifespan. Ageing much faster than any standard race. Can matter when it comes to story and roleplaying. • More chaotically inclined than any of the standard races. Apecat (Humanoid) http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/1130/nykatpelssscd7.jpg Racial Traits • -2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, -2 Intelligence: Apecats are agile and quick, but they are rather weak and slow to learn new skills. • Small: As a small creature, an Apecat gains a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack roles, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks, but she uses smaller weapons than humans use, and her lifting and carrying limits are three quarters of those of a Medium character. • Apecat base land speed is 30 feet. • +4 racial bonus on Balance and Climb checks • +2 racial bonus on Listen checks • Low-Light Vision: An apecat can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish colors under these conditions. • Agile Athlete: Apecats gain Agile Athlete as a free racial feat, allowing them to add their dexterity bonus, instead of their strength bonus, for Climb and Jump checks. • Natural Claw Attacks: Apecats are able to use their retractable claws as natural weapons. As a standard action they can attack once with each hand, at their highest attack bonus, each dealing 1d3 points of piercing and slashing damage. They do not gain extra attacks with their claws, as their base attack bonus improves.* • Favored Class: Rogue. A multiclass apecat’s rogue class does not count when determining whether she takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing. • Alignment: Always Chaotic * Standard rules for natural attacks Adulthood---Middle Age---Old--------Venerable---Maximum Age 8 years-----20 years-----30 years---40 years----+2d6 years Gender---Base Height---Height Modifier---Base Weight---Weight Modifier Male-----2’ 10”----------+2d4-----------25 lb.----------x 1 lb. Female---2’ 8”-----------+2d4-----------20 lb.----------x 1 lb. Description Apecats, as they are popularly called, are small, lightly built humanoids, with feline characteristics, including cat-like facial features and ears, claws, a long tail and a body covered by fine, usually brown fur. Though different fur patterns and colors do exist. They stand about three feet tall and usually weigh between 20 and 25 pounds. Apecats are rather weak, but very quick, agile and have a keen sense of hearing. Apecats are relatively short lived. They reach adulthood at the age of eight and most live to be around 45 years old. They are nocturnal and eat nothing but meat and fish, preferably raw. Apecats are a wild and uncivilized race. Their natural environments are warm forests and jungles, where they live in small disorganized tribes, surviving by hunting. They are not very intelligent or good with tools, but they are instinctively able hunters, trackers and stalkers. Apecats languages vary between tribes but they are usually very simple and have no systems of writing. Apecats are curious, impulsive and unhesitating. They are very energetic and quite emotional, quick to get angry, but just as quick to forgive. They are very expressive and rarely hide their emotions. Males tend to be slightly more agressive than females. When active, Apecats may seem inexhaustable, but they require more rest than humans do. Most sleep for about 10 hours each day. Apecats' curiosity and confidence in their ability to escape dangerous situations often result in boldness. Apecats are very chaotic in nature and personal freedom is extremely important to them. Above anything, they hate feeling confined, and can be slightly claustrophobic at times. They dislike wearing attire and armor that restricts their freedom of movement, especially on their hands, feet and heads. When commanded, rather than requested, to do something, they tend to get upset and can act quite antagonistic at times. Decisions in an Apecat tribe are reached collectively. There are rarely any leaders. Apecat tribes usually number about 30-60 individuals. Fur colors and patterns can vary a lot between tribes, but there is usually also some variation within a tribe. Apecats are naturally nomadic and a tribe rarely settles in one place for good. They hunt in groups, at night, using simple short bows, slings or javelins. They spend most of the day relaxing, playing and sleeping safely in the treetops. Apecats get bored rather easily and spend a lot of time playing different games, usually physical, rather than mental in nature. They also enjoy playing pranks on eachother. When moving between places, Apecats often encounter other Apecat tribes. They enjoy meeting others of their kind. When tribes meet they enjoy exchanging and competing in games. It is normal that adult Apecats, mostly males, who have not found a partner within its own tribe, chooses to drift between different tribes untill it finds one. Conflicts between tribes are rare. They often work together to drive enimies away. Tribes who become particularly fond of eachother usually arrange to meet at specific places on certian dates. This may also be a way for individuals who have settled in another tribe to get to see old family members. Apecats' curiosity sometimes makes them end up in dangerous situations, but Apecat tribes try to avoid obviously dangerous conflicts with outsiders. Strangers approaching a tribe would usually be either greeted or avoided, rarely attacked. As the feeling of freedom is extremely importent to Apecats, those in captivity loose their wild spirit and start appearing soulless rather quickly. Apecats in imprisonment or slavery rarely live to be older than 25 years of age. Nonetheless, Apecats are a fairly popular commodity on the slave markets of civilized races. They are even traded in a number of countries that formally ban slavery, where it's argued that owning Apecats is not slavery, since they are closer to animals than people. Indeed they mostly end up as pets, for display or pleasure, most buyers being rich collectors or brothel owners. Some people find their exotic apperance appealing and unusually attractive ones, especially those with colorful or light fur, can fetch high prices. Apecats who escape slavery are usually severely psychologically scarred and unable to regain their natural spirit. Edit: I added a new race, which shares a common ancestor with the Apecats. They are mostly similar to Apecats, physically, mentally and socially, but they are bigger, and their home is the vast open savannah. Thus they are not naturally adapted to life in the treetops, but they are natural sprinters, which they make use of while hunting. They have no natural claw attack. Their claws are too small to cause any damage, since they are not needed for climbing. Their tails are a bit shorter than those of Apecats, which is the reason why they are not as good at balancing. I will add some discriptive text later. Related Race: Katir (Humanoid) Racial Traits • +2 Dexterity, -2 Intelligence: Katir are agile and quick, but they are slow learners. • Medium: As Medium creatures, Katir have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size • Katir base land speed is 40 feet. • +2 racial bonus on Balance and Listen checks • Low-Light Vision: A Katir can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. She retains the ability to distinguish colors under these conditions. • Run: Katir gain Run as a free racial feet. • Favored Class: Scout. A multiclass katir’s scout class does not count when determining whether she takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing. • Alignment: Always Chaotic Adulthood---Middle Age---Old--------Venerable---Maximum Age 8 years-----20 years-----30 years---40 years----+2d6 years Gender---Base Height---Height Modifier---Base Weight---Weight Modifier Male-----3’ 10”------------+2d6-----------35 lb.----------x 1 lb. Female---3’ 8”-------------+2d6-----------30 lb.----------x 1 lb. What do you guys think?
AtsuiShoto 12-29-07, 11:48 PM	I really rather like this idea. Nice all around. One nit-pick, though, although perhaps a little clarification would reveal that it's a non-issue: if apecats lost all motivation and will when enslaved, they would make poor slaves. They are too small and weak to be good laborers, they would lose the strength of character to push themselves to be good craftsmen, and they would be too sullen and forlorn to be presentable pets or servers. They would be second-rate "items" on the slave market, at the very best, and more likely they would be downright unpopular.
Xiuhcoatl 12-30-07, 02:08 PM	How fast are they? No speed is listed.
Space_Dragon 12-30-07, 06:12 PM	MANBEARPIG!
Ahiru 12-30-07, 10:02 PM	I really rather like this idea. Nice all around. One nit-pick, though, although perhaps a little clarification would reveal that it's a non-issue: if apecats lost all motivation and will when enslaved, they would make poor slaves. They are too small and weak to be good laborers, they would lose the strength of character to push themselves to be good craftsmen, and they would be too sullen and forlorn to be presentable pets or servers. They would be second-rate "items" on the slave market, at the very best, and more likely they would be downright unpopular. You are right, I realize they would be of little use as anything more than pets. I think that the fact that they quickly loose their will and motivation when imprisoned, is actually the reason why they can be kept as pets. Otherwise they would be completely impossible to discipline. I think that the fact that they woul mostly be considered pets, and not slaves, could be a reason why they are fairly popular, as many nations probably have rules preventing strong abuse of slaves, but no such rules which apply to "pets". Some people might find their exotic apperance appealing, so maybe many buyers would be brothel owners (they'd also save on prevention, since half-apecats won't come into existance). Some rich collector might want to buy some pretty specimens, with rare fur patterns, to display, chained in the corner of his trophy room. And I wouldn't be surprised if there were quite a few sadistic aristocrats who be delighted to use them as toys. I guess females would be more popular than males. But yeah, it would pretty much be a niche market, I'll edit the text. How fast are they? No speed is listed. "• Apecat base land speed is 30 feet."
Ahiru 01-01-08, 10:11 PM	I added a new related race. What do you guys think? Comments will be appreciated.
DarkRhystar 01-01-08, 10:36 PM	Apecat Drop the bonus feat. Drop one of the +4 skill bonuses to +2. Pick a single favored class. Katir Drop the bonus feat. Pick a single favored class.
Angel Black 01-02-08, 07:37 PM	Apecat I think is ok, seems low CR but it has a great sinergy among abilities so those penalties are in order. Katir Seems ok too, maybe there is room to add a little ability, but it is not needed.
Spikes01k 01-02-08, 07:55 PM	I suggest granting a progression to their claw attacks. 1st HD, 1st claw attack full bonusl, 2nd -5, full round action for both attacs 3rd HD, 1st & 2nd claw attack at full attack, full round action for both 6th HD, 1st & 2nd claw attack at full attack, standard action for both Having two natural attacks as a standard action from the start might be too much for any LA 0.
Angel Black 01-06-08, 06:23 PM	In this case is no worst than a halfling with two daggers.
Spikes01k 01-07-08, 03:25 PM	In this case is no worst than a halfling with two daggers. I have to disagree, but that is me.
AtsuiShoto 01-08-08, 02:49 AM	A halfling with two daggers would not be able to actually USE both of them as a standard action. I missed the "standard action" part the first time I read through, or I would have mentioned it as being out of line. It's one more strong quality for a rogue, making the race (as far as I can see) overly pigeon-holed into the rogue class. Halflings are regarded as good rogues, but apecats are faster, have better skill bonuses, and don't need to use a full attack to get 2 sneak attacks in... at 1st level, too! At mid-level play I suspect neither of these issues will matter, but for low levels it may be a bit too much in the rogue's favor.
Captain_Kobold 01-08-08, 08:19 AM	Looks like an interesting concept. In terms of power, I think that if you were to stick to the standard rules on Natural attacks for the claws, they would be balanced in and of themselves. As it is, they are LA+1. A bit weak, but the potential for abuse of their odd claw rules puts them out of the LA+0 area. Give them a climb speed, and maybe the Brachiation feat, and they would be a decent LA+1. Are Apecats naturally illiterate? Does the structure of their throat and mouth make them unable to speak common? For a race with only a -2 to intelligence, it seems surprising that they would not be regarded as a sentient race unless there was some reason they could not express themselves. There are slower and more bestial races around that are treated as full people (albeit stupid ones) as opposed to animals. Or is this perception based around a more unusual setting?
Balthanon 01-08-08, 08:37 AM	A halfling with two daggers would not be able to actually USE both of them as a standard action. The halfling would also need to spend a feat on Two-Weapon Fighting and be facing a -2 penalty on both attacks, even if it is corrected to a full round action. The level progressed natural attacks would probably be the easiest way to bring this into line-- if they can do it with flight, I don't think natural attacks would be a problem.
Spikes01k 01-08-08, 11:41 AM	The halfling would also need to spend a feat on Two-Weapon Fighting and be facing a -2 penalty on both attacks, even if it is corrected to a full round action. The level progressed natural attacks would probably be the easiest way to bring this into line-- if they can do it with flight, I don't think natural attacks would be a problem. Thank you.
Ahiru 01-12-08, 03:08 AM	I appreciate all of your replies. Thanks. Looks like an interesting concept. In terms of power, I think that if you were to stick to the standard rules on Natural attacks for the claws, they would be balanced in and of themselves. But I thought these were the standard rules? Are Apecats naturally illiterate? Does the structure of their throat and mouth make them unable to speak common? For a race with only a -2 to intelligence, it seems surprising that they would not be regarded as a sentient race unless there was some reason they could not express themselves. When slavery was practiced in America, I imagine most people realized that the "negros" were a sentinent race, but that didn't stop them from inventing all kinds of stupid arguments, attempting to justify keeping them as slaves. Some people think about Apecats as animals, mainly because they like to do so, not because that's what Apecats are. It is most their appearance as "half cats" that sets them apart from other races with an intelligence penalty.
Captain_Kobold 01-12-08, 10:11 AM	But I thought these were the standard rules? You only get multiple attacks when using a full-round attack, even with natural weapons. Your current version of the Apecat claw attack allows them to get both attacks in on a standard action. This is the main sticking point.
Count Nerindil Van Seraph 01-12-08, 10:45 AM	MANBEARPIG! :rofl:
AtsuiShoto 01-12-08, 02:55 PM	Your text:Natural Claw Attacks: Apecats are able to use their retractable claws as natural weapons. As a standard action they can attack once with each hand, at their highest attack bonus, each dealing 1d3 points of piercing and slashing damage. They do not gain extra attacks with their claws, as their base attack bonus improves.* Normal natural weapon text from the SRD:Natural weapons are weapons that are physically a part of a creature. (...) Creatures do not receive additional attacks from a high base attack bonus when using natural weapons. Since they are weapons they follow the weapon rules, except for the lack of iterative attacks from 6+ BAB. This means that a single attack is a standard action, and anything more than a single attack is a full attack action. This is ALWAYS the case, unless you've got a feat like Two-Weapon Pounce or some sort of bizarre special ability (which is what you've given apecats, but it makes them overpowered). Another important note: Usually, to get more than 1 attack, a character needs to have Two-Weapon fighting, and even then they take a -2 penalty. If you give a race more than 1 primary natural weapon, you are essentially handing out Two-Weapon Fighting and a +2 bonus to attacks for free, because primary natural weapons don't take an attack penalty when used with other natural weapons in a full attack. For a lower-level rogue, this is great. Yet another boost to apecat rogues.
Phelix_the_Warrior 01-12-08, 06:16 PM	Seems well done What I dont like is the alignment thing, Ive never liked the idea of a strict alignment for a race unless its something like undead or celestial Id change it to usually chaotic (like dwarves are usually lawful) just me though
Angel Black 05-02-08, 12:41 PM	Still like it, hope more races will come later.
pigknight 05-03-08, 04:30 AM	The pic seems a lil' "mature" to me.
Xiuhcoatl 05-03-08, 07:45 AM	The pic seems a lil' "mature" to me. That picture is well within the CoC.