Post/Author/DateTime	Post
grndyfn19 02-15-08, 09:02 PM	This is a race I made a long time ago when I first learned D&D. It is probably too powerful, but give me your feedback on it. Also, if it's too powerful, would it still be balanced for a high-level campaign? The Aqua Human *+2 WIS, +1 STR, +1 DEX, -3 CHA, -1 INT *Medium: Aqua Humans have no penalties or bonus due to their size. While in water, though, they can change their size anywhere from Tiny to Gigantic at will. *Speed: 30 ft; Swim Speed of 40 ft *Aqua Humans can breathe both underwater and above water because of their gills. *Aqua Humans can turn themselves completely into water at will while as a free action while on dry land. If they do this in water, they automatically die because there is no way to put the water back into a physical shape again. While in the water, however, Aqua Humans blend in with their surroundings and you can only see their eyes and the partial outline of their body. *Wave Attack: While in the water, Aqua Humans can become one with the water and can create a wave that deals 1d4+1 damage per level. For each level gained, the wave becomes bigger and wider by 5 ft, starting with 5 ft. As a side note, when this attack is activated, the Aqua Human itself moves with the wave and lands wherever the wave lands, possibly creating an attack of opportunity. *While on land, Aqua Humans can spray water from their bodies as an attack. They can do this 4 times per day, and everytime after that they take 1d6 damage because they are spraying parts of their body. It deals 1d2 damage and can only affect an enemy within the radius of the Aqua Human. This is a free action. *Languages: Aqua Humans can't speak, though they can understand Common and Aquan, and can read and write. http://i26.tinypic.com/2d27wx4.jpg I didn't create a background/detailed description of the race, but still tell me what you think. (By the way, the picture I used here is of a Nereid from Stormwrack, but just assume it's an Aqua Human)
Illithid Tentacles 02-15-08, 09:57 PM	*+2 WIS, +1 STR, +1 DEX, -3 CHA, -1 INT Odd stat modifiers = no. *Medium: Aqua Humans have no penalties or bonus due to their size. While in water, though, they can change their size anywhere from Tiny to Gigantic at will. Worth at LEAST a +3 LA right there, probably more. *Speed: 30 ft; Swim Speed of 40 ft Expected. Fine. *Aqua Humans can breathe both underwater and above water because of their gills. Also expected. Maybe a +0.5 LA. *Aqua Humans can turn themselves completely into water at will while as a free action while on dry land. If they do this in water, they automatically die because there is no way to put the water back into a physical shape again. While in the water, however, Aqua Humans blend in with their surroundings and you can only see their eyes and the partial outline of their body. Essentially a bonus to hide checks, then? How much? *Wave Attack: While in the water, Aqua Humans can become one with the water and can create a wave that deals 1d4+1 damage per level. For each level gained, the wave becomes bigger and wider by 5 ft, starting with 5 ft. As a side note, when this attack is activated, the Aqua Human itself moves with the wave and lands wherever the wave lands, possibly creating an attack of opportunity. At will? Can you make a bull rush or charge attack as part of this, or is this something else entirely? Can the player make a smaller wave if he wants, or not? As an offhand guess, I'd say this is worth a +1 LA, maybe more. *While on land, Aqua Humans can spray water from their bodies as an attack. They can do this 4 times per day, and everytime after that they take 1d6 damage because they are spraying parts of their body. It deals 1d2 damage and can only affect an enemy within the radius of the Aqua Human. This is a free action. What's the range? 5 feet? *Languages: Aqua Humans can't speak, though they can understand Common and Aquan, and can read and write. No comment besides that there are lots of magical ways to get around the "can't speak" bit. So, around a +4.5 LA in total, just from the stuff that's defined, probably more.
Balthanon 02-15-08, 09:59 PM	First, racial stat bonuses are always even. Given the powers that you are granting, these are unlikely to be a 0 level adjustment race, so you can probably go with unbalanced ability scores. +2 Str, +2 Dex, -2 Int, -4 Cha, +2 Wis unless you want to drop some of those. For the size and water transformation abilities, you really need more definition, since you don't specify how those changes impact the character. Do they get the size bonuses and penalties in terms of Str, Dex, Con, natural armor, reach, etc...? Can they move while they're water on dry land? Overall, the transformational abilities seem a bit too powerful (mainly the size change), while the damage oriented abilities are a bit pointless. The damage on the attacks isn't going to have any significant impact on a battle. Take a look through some existing books and try and model the abilities off of some existing creatures to get a better idea of how to define the abilities and their impact on a character. (Spriggans for instance, have a size change ability that might fit.)
grndyfn19 02-15-08, 10:12 PM	Yeah I agree with what you guys said, but I posted this exactly as I had made it 2 years ago. I didn't change anything, even if it sounded stupid. As of now, I would take away the water squirting ability because that's pointless. Also, I need to define the Wave Attack thing more. You may think it's pointless, but I really want an exclusive ability like that. If you have any suggestions, can you tell me? I think the racial adjustments are fine because I want to them to be different than the typical race. Also, if you will, could you just re-post this race as you see fit in your mind? Just to show me what you think should be changed. I'm not that good at creating things.
grndyfn19 02-15-08, 10:13 PM	Odd stat modifiers = no. Worth at LEAST a +3 LA right there, probably more. Expected. Fine. Also expected. Maybe a +0.5 LA. Essentially a bonus to hide checks, then? How much? At will? Can you make a bull rush or charge attack as part of this, or is this something else entirely? Can the player make a smaller wave if he wants, or not? As an offhand guess, I'd say this is worth a +1 LA, maybe more. What's the range? 5 feet? No comment besides that there are lots of magical ways to get around the "can't speak" bit. So, around a +4.5 LA in total, just from the stuff that's defined, probably more. Sorry to double-post, but what does LA mean?
CryoSilver 02-15-08, 10:44 PM	Level Adjustment. Basically, your LA counts as "virtual levels" to make up for the fact that you're more powerful than a regular guy. A level 5 fighter with LA of +4 is a level 9 character in terms of XP gain, though you don't get level 9 feats or anything, because you're still ACTUALLY a level 5 character.
ciaran 02-16-08, 08:45 AM	Why is this a human race?
M-bark 02-16-08, 09:15 AM	Why is this a human race? Because even humans need some love. And subraces.
Xiuhcoatl 02-16-08, 09:42 AM	Psst, there is no size category known as "gigantic" ... The ability to go from Tiny to Gargantuan, however, is at least LA +3. What are the mechanical effects? Do they gain Str bonuses for going that big?
Kedami 02-16-08, 10:40 AM	I just got Stormwrack today and was reading it before I came online. I was expecting this to be about the Aventi.
Lord Karsus 02-16-08, 12:00 PM	-I believe it was Unearthed Arcana , as well as a post-300 DRAGON magazine that rules/ideas/stats for applying various templates (such as Aquatic) to base races. Might be helpful, if you have either.
pigknight 02-16-08, 01:25 PM	If this is LA +0 then I really and an awakened pig knight 5/fighter 4/paladin 6/purple pig-on knight 5.
ciaran 02-17-08, 01:11 PM	Beware the Baconbane sword.In addition to the extra damage it will prompt a Fort save.
teshen 02-17-08, 03:32 PM	. . . Also, if you will, could you just re-post this race as you see fit in your mind? Just to show me what you think should be changed. I'm not that good at creating things. The Submariners a.k.a. advanced aquatic humans +2 Constitution, -2 Charisma As swimmers, their bodies have adapted to the cold and increased pressure while extended underwater explorations have decreasing their need for more developed communication skills. Speed: Land speed 30'; Swim Speed 30' A submariner also only takes the standard armor check penalty when swimming in armor rather than double the armor check penalty. Medium: Aqua Humans have no penalties or bonus due to their size. Low-Light Vision: A submariner can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions. Body of Water (Su): While paratially or completely submerged in a body of water larger than themselves, a submariner can change the water pressure of his own body to give himself one of the following benefits. To alter his body in such a fashion requires a full round action and lasts for as long as he chooses to remain that body type or until he leaves contact with body of water he was submerged in, whichever comes first. Slight Build: The collapsed body of submariner lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category smaller. Whenever a submariner is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as Hide), the submariner is treated as one size smaller if doing so is advantageous to the character. A submariner is also considered to be one size smaller when "squeezing" through a restrictive space. A submariner can use weapons designed for a creature one size smaller without penalty. However, the space and reach of a submariner remain those of a creature of their actual size. Powerful Build: The enhanced stature of a submariner lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever a submariner is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the submariner is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A submariner is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A submariner can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of these racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category. Water breathing (Ex): Submariners possess both normal human lungs and a set of fully functional gills which allow them to breath normally underwater. Translucent skin (Su): A submariner's skin has taken on some of the light refracting qualities of water. He gains a +4 bonus to hide checks, as his skin mirrors the colors of its surroundings. Natural Swimmer: A water creature can move through water at its swim speed without making Swim checks. It has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. A water creature can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line. Wave Attack (Su): While in contact with a body of water larger than himself, a submariner may propel water at a target as an attack. This attack is a touch attack that does 1d6 damage per 2 character levels in bludgeoning damage. It takes a standard action to perform. 1 extra skill point at each level. Languages: Submariners can speak common and aquan. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic). Favored Class: Any. When determining whether a multiclass human takes an experience point penalty, his or her highest-level class does not count. LA: +2 I'd actually charge +1 if the game is heavily based away from water, since normal humans get the extra 3 skill points and one feat over this guy and most of his special abilities will rarely, if ever, be used... but that could just be me. Of course, I don't think I'm that good at creating things either. I was also tempted to add Spell-Like Abilities: 1/day—speak with animals (aquatic creatures only, duration 1 minute per level)... but I didn't want too much of a wonder friends vibe.
grndyfn19 02-17-08, 09:02 PM	The Submariners a.k.a. advanced aquatic humans +2 Constitution, -2 Charisma As swimmers, their bodies have adapted to the cold and increased pressure while extended underwater explorations have decreasing their need for more developed communication skills. Speed: Land speed 30'; Swim Speed 30' A submariner also only takes the standard armor check penalty when swimming in armor rather than double the armor check penalty. Medium: Aqua Humans have no penalties or bonus due to their size. Low-Light Vision: A submariner can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions. Body of Water (Su): While paratially or completely submerged in a body of water larger than themselves, a submariner can change the water pressure of his own body to give himself one of the following benefits. To alter his body in such a fashion requires a full round action and lasts for as long as he chooses to remain that body type or until he leaves contact with body of water he was submerged in, whichever comes first. Slight Build: The collapsed body of submariner lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category smaller. Whenever a submariner is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as Hide), the submariner is treated as one size smaller if doing so is advantageous to the character. A submariner is also considered to be one size smaller when "squeezing" through a restrictive space. A submariner can use weapons designed for a creature one size smaller without penalty. However, the space and reach of a submariner remain those of a creature of their actual size. Powerful Build: The enhanced stature of a submariner lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger. Whenever a submariner is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the submariner is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him. A submariner is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A submariner can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of these racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category. Water breathing (Ex): Submariners possess both normal human lungs and a set of fully functional gills which allow them to breath normally underwater. Translucent skin (Su): A submariner's skin has taken on some of the light refracting qualities of water. He gains a +4 bonus to hide checks, as his skin mirrors the colors of its surroundings. Natural Swimmer: A water creature can move through water at its swim speed without making Swim checks. It has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard. A water creature can always choose to take 10 on a Swim check, even if distracted or endangered. It can use the run action while swimming, provided it swims in a straight line. Wave Attack (Su): While in contact with a body of water larger than himself, a submariner may propel water at a target as an attack. This attack is a touch attack that does 1d6 damage per 2 character levels in bludgeoning damage. It takes a standard action to perform. 1 extra skill point at each level. Languages: Submariners can speak common and aquan. Bonus Languages: Any (other than secret languages, such as Druidic). Favored Class: Any. When determining whether a multiclass human takes an experience point penalty, his or her highest-level class does not count. LA: +2 I'd actually charge +1 if the game is heavily based away from water, since normal humans get the extra 3 skill points and one feat over this guy and most of his special abilities will rarely, if ever, be used... but that could just be me. Of course, I don't think I'm that good at creating things either. I was also tempted to add Spell-Like Abilities: 1/day—speak with animals (aquatic creatures only, duration 1 minute per level)... but I didn't want too much of a wonder friends vibe. Thanks a lot, this was exactly what I was asking for :D
grndyfn19 02-19-08, 07:10 PM	To make this a sub-race, though, would I have to make the Aqua Human more like a regular Human and then change minor things?
teshen 02-20-08, 02:19 AM	To make this a sub-race, though, would I have to make the Aqua Human more like a regular Human and then change minor things?Yes and no... It depends on how different you want the change to be. Think about the drow. They are somewhat different from regular elves, yet they are both still elves. Think about how different illumans are from regular humans, yet both are more or less human. This race can look and act like regular humans for the most part, except they have been somehow adapted to a different environment. If you want them to be more human, you can take away some more of their abilities or add the extra feat and skill points back... but that's not necessarily necessary. One of the things I specifically omitted was the bonus vs. fire creatures and the vulnerablity to fire that most water based creatures suffer. I figured these guys were more of a magical mutation rather than an extraplanar version. So after rambling, I say these guys are as human as you want them to be in your campaign. If you want to explain them as a human subrace, then they are.
grndyfn19 02-21-08, 05:10 PM	So after rambling, I say these guys are as human as you want them to be in your campaign. If you want to explain them as a human subrace, then they are. I never made them for any particular campaign, just did it for the fun of it. Might use it later on. How would you make it, though, if it were to be mechanically a sub-race?
ToastedAmphibian 02-21-08, 06:29 PM	subrace dosnt really HAVE a mechanic....
grndyfn19 02-21-08, 10:20 PM	subrace dosnt really HAVE a mechanic.... I mean the way they set up sub-races. At the moment, I can't find where the sub-races are in any of my books (not looking too hard :D ), but I remember them being almost exactly like the race they're based off of, except with substituted features. Am I right?
Balthanon 02-22-08, 12:00 PM	I mean the way they set up sub-races. At the moment, I can't find where the sub-races are in any of my books (not looking too hard :D ), but I remember them being almost exactly like the race they're based off of, except with substituted features. Am I right? Many subraces are more along those lines, but the key feature in 3.5 is having the appropriate subtype. For instance, illumians from Races of Destiny have significantly different features from humans, yet they have the (Human) subtype. The race posted above does actually share traits (the skill points per level) with the human, so it should qualify.
grndyfn19 02-22-08, 12:47 PM	Many subraces are more along those lines, but the key feature in 3.5 is having the appropriate subtype. For instance, illumians from Races of Destiny have significantly different features from humans, yet they have the (Human) subtype. The race posted above does actually share traits (the skill points per level) with the human, so it should qualify. Oh, ok. That was Teshen's version, though, not mine.
Balthanon 02-22-08, 12:54 PM	Oh, ok. That was Teshen's version, though, not mine. It sounded like you were intending to use that, so that's what I was commenting on. Yours had some design issues overall and seemed a bit more like a water elemental than a human subrace, truthfully.
grndyfn19 02-22-08, 01:15 PM	It sounded like you were intending to use that, so that's what I was commenting on. Yours had some design issues overall and seemed a bit more like a water elemental than a human subrace, truthfully. The one I originally made wasn't intended to be a sub-race, but it had the name "human" in it so I decided that it maybe should be a sub-race.