Avariels and Their LA [Archive] - Wizards Community

Avariels and Their LA [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Zuractai
04-07-07, 10:06 PM The Winged Template is from Savage Species. Looking for other opinions regarding this.

Winged Sun Elf
+4 Dex -2 Con +2 Wis +2 Int
—Medium size.
—An elf ’s base land speed is 30 feet. (Fly 50 Perfect (17) Good (15) Average(11) (Dex score)
—Immunity to sleep spells and effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.
—Low-light vision.
—Weapon Proficiency: Elves are automatically proficient with the longsword, rapier, longbow, composite longbow, shortbow, and composite shortbow.
— +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks. An elf who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for it.
—Automatic Languages: Common, Elven. Auran Bonus Languages: Draconic, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, Sylvan.
—Favored Class: Wizard.

Avariels
+4 Dex -2 Con +2 Wis +2 Int
—Medium size.
—Base land speed is 30 feet. (Fly 50 Average) Need to have at least 15 feet wide area to fly
—Immunity to sleep spells and effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.
—Low-light vision.
—Weapon Proficiency: Elves are automatically proficient with the longsword or rapier, and Lasso and bolas.
— +2 racial bonus on Listen, and Search, checks. An elf who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for it.
+4 Racial Bonus on Spot and Jump Checks
—Automatic Languages: Common, Elven. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, Sylvan.
—Favored Class: Cleric

Differences.
Avariels get +2 Spot +4 Jump. Rapier or Longsword, and Lasso and Bola
Average Maneuverability
Favored Class Cleric

Winged Sun Elves get
Rapier AND Longsword, longbow, composite longbow, shortbow, and composite shortbow.
Auran as a bonus language
Almost Certainly Good or Perfect Maneuverability
Favored class Wizard

Now the weapons are better for the Winged Sun Elves. Plus almost certainly better maneuverability, and a bonus language. Avariels Gain +2 Spot and +4 Jump (Not as useful for a flying creature. So personally I would say the Winged Sun Elf would be better, and so the Avariel should defiantly have only a +2 LA

Now I want to have a Plus +1 LA Avariel by adding weaknesses (Based on some of the ones they had in Second Edition.

-2 Save vs Fire effects
Claustrophobia (Which causes some or all of these effects.)
Shaken when Underground (The can be in normal buildings, open caves on the side of mountains, but most Dungeons would certainly activate this effect.) Either no Save, or a Will save DC 10+1/previous save every hour. Once Shaken effect ends once the Avariel leaves underground (Must remain above ground for at least 8 hours for the save DC to go back down.)
If trapped in a tight place and already shaken, but make a will save DC 10+1/minute or become frightened until they can escape.

Is that enough/too much/ not enough?
Crimson_Concerto
04-08-07, 04:02 AM I've seen it unanimously agreed upon that Avariel Elves should not have a +3 LA and that a +2 LA would be balanced, as the Winged Sun Elf has almost exactly the same stats, so yes, your assumption on this is correct, and their LA is too high.

However, I'm not sure what exactly would be required to drop their LA. I just wanted to confirm for you that you're on the right track.
runestar
04-08-07, 06:34 AM To be honest, I am not aware of avariels ever being used in gameplay save as an alter-self target by wizards for their flight...:P So their LA never bothered me...
Zuractai
04-08-07, 10:45 PM Thanks! Its good to know that at least the +2 makes sence. And I too am not quite sure what weaknesses would warent a lowering of a LA. I Don't want them to be crippleing but nothing that will never come up... The couple listed weaknesses were also sorta Part of one of my Avariel's backstories, which is why I would like to encorperate it.
EternalWizard
04-09-07, 06:07 PM U have to admit that Avariels have a lot of flavour and since D&D is as much about role as it is roll, maybe that's the reason for the +3 LA.
Other than that, I have to admit that it's stupid to play an avariel when u can play any other elf with the winged template, get a +2 LA instead of +3 and get maybe better stuff (better maneuverability or e.g. a +6 to Dex)

Off cource there is always the Half-Fey Template from Fiend Folio which I believe is even better :D
Zuractai
04-10-07, 10:24 AM I just read the Half-Fey Template and wow. charm at will as their first ability. Fly of twice the fastest mode of transpertation... Yea, that is quite a bit nicer then Flying Template, but at least for the one Char I will keep her as an Avariel... I wonder if the Weakness I listed (-2 Save vs Fire, and Claustraphobia) would make good flaws...
EternalWizard
04-11-07, 07:05 AM I'm not sure about the drawbacks u want to give them.
They just seem to be very situational, whereas most of the bonuses they get are useful every single moment.

U could increase the penalty to Con to -4 and add some penalty to a skill. They could for example get a penalty to diplomacy and bluff checks when dealing with non-elven creatures (Non-elven creatures are not familiar with Avariels and Avariels themselves are very cautious when dealing with creatures that are not elves)
If i remember correct, in the second edition a great problem with Avariels was that everybody would hunt them down because of their wings and their rarity. I guess that would be a great drawback.
Zuractai
04-11-07, 09:32 AM I should add that at least for this one specific char, she also doesn't have wings between 5th-16th level. (You comment about hunting them down and such reminded me of that.) Because she was blasted out of the sky by a fireball. however I also want to think of weaknesses i can use for other Avariels, and the Diplomacy and such might be a good adition.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Zuractai 04-07-07, 10:06 PM	The Winged Template is from Savage Species. Looking for other opinions regarding this. Winged Sun Elf +4 Dex -2 Con +2 Wis +2 Int —Medium size. —An elf ’s base land speed is 30 feet. (Fly 50 Perfect (17) Good (15) Average(11) (Dex score) —Immunity to sleep spells and effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects. —Low-light vision. —Weapon Proficiency: Elves are automatically proficient with the longsword, rapier, longbow, composite longbow, shortbow, and composite shortbow. — +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks. An elf who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for it. —Automatic Languages: Common, Elven. Auran Bonus Languages: Draconic, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, Sylvan. —Favored Class: Wizard. Avariels +4 Dex -2 Con +2 Wis +2 Int —Medium size. —Base land speed is 30 feet. (Fly 50 Average) Need to have at least 15 feet wide area to fly —Immunity to sleep spells and effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects. —Low-light vision. —Weapon Proficiency: Elves are automatically proficient with the longsword or rapier, and Lasso and bolas. — +2 racial bonus on Listen, and Search, checks. An elf who merely passes within 5 feet of a secret or concealed door is entitled to a Search check to notice it as if she were actively looking for it. +4 Racial Bonus on Spot and Jump Checks —Automatic Languages: Common, Elven. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, Sylvan. —Favored Class: Cleric Differences. Avariels get +2 Spot +4 Jump. Rapier or Longsword, and Lasso and Bola Average Maneuverability Favored Class Cleric Winged Sun Elves get Rapier AND Longsword, longbow, composite longbow, shortbow, and composite shortbow. Auran as a bonus language Almost Certainly Good or Perfect Maneuverability Favored class Wizard Now the weapons are better for the Winged Sun Elves. Plus almost certainly better maneuverability, and a bonus language. Avariels Gain +2 Spot and +4 Jump (Not as useful for a flying creature. So personally I would say the Winged Sun Elf would be better, and so the Avariel should defiantly have only a +2 LA Now I want to have a Plus +1 LA Avariel by adding weaknesses (Based on some of the ones they had in Second Edition. -2 Save vs Fire effects Claustrophobia (Which causes some or all of these effects.) Shaken when Underground (The can be in normal buildings, open caves on the side of mountains, but most Dungeons would certainly activate this effect.) Either no Save, or a Will save DC 10+1/previous save every hour. Once Shaken effect ends once the Avariel leaves underground (Must remain above ground for at least 8 hours for the save DC to go back down.) If trapped in a tight place and already shaken, but make a will save DC 10+1/minute or become frightened until they can escape. Is that enough/too much/ not enough?
Crimson_Concerto 04-08-07, 04:02 AM	I've seen it unanimously agreed upon that Avariel Elves should not have a +3 LA and that a +2 LA would be balanced, as the Winged Sun Elf has almost exactly the same stats, so yes, your assumption on this is correct, and their LA is too high. However, I'm not sure what exactly would be required to drop their LA. I just wanted to confirm for you that you're on the right track.
runestar 04-08-07, 06:34 AM	To be honest, I am not aware of avariels ever being used in gameplay save as an alter-self target by wizards for their flight...:P So their LA never bothered me...
Zuractai 04-08-07, 10:45 PM	Thanks! Its good to know that at least the +2 makes sence. And I too am not quite sure what weaknesses would warent a lowering of a LA. I Don't want them to be crippleing but nothing that will never come up... The couple listed weaknesses were also sorta Part of one of my Avariel's backstories, which is why I would like to encorperate it.
EternalWizard 04-09-07, 06:07 PM	U have to admit that Avariels have a lot of flavour and since D&D is as much about role as it is roll, maybe that's the reason for the +3 LA. Other than that, I have to admit that it's stupid to play an avariel when u can play any other elf with the winged template, get a +2 LA instead of +3 and get maybe better stuff (better maneuverability or e.g. a +6 to Dex) Off cource there is always the Half-Fey Template from Fiend Folio which I believe is even better :D
Zuractai 04-10-07, 10:24 AM	I just read the Half-Fey Template and wow. charm at will as their first ability. Fly of twice the fastest mode of transpertation... Yea, that is quite a bit nicer then Flying Template, but at least for the one Char I will keep her as an Avariel... I wonder if the Weakness I listed (-2 Save vs Fire, and Claustraphobia) would make good flaws...
EternalWizard 04-11-07, 07:05 AM	I'm not sure about the drawbacks u want to give them. They just seem to be very situational, whereas most of the bonuses they get are useful every single moment. U could increase the penalty to Con to -4 and add some penalty to a skill. They could for example get a penalty to diplomacy and bluff checks when dealing with non-elven creatures (Non-elven creatures are not familiar with Avariels and Avariels themselves are very cautious when dealing with creatures that are not elves) If i remember correct, in the second edition a great problem with Avariels was that everybody would hunt them down because of their wings and their rarity. I guess that would be a great drawback.
Zuractai 04-11-07, 09:32 AM	I should add that at least for this one specific char, she also doesn't have wings between 5th-16th level. (You comment about hunting them down and such reminded me of that.) Because she was blasted out of the sky by a fireball. however I also want to think of weaknesses i can use for other Avariels, and the Diplomacy and such might be a good adition.