Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dm_Farble 01-21-07, 07:01 PM	Does anyone have the statistics for a rabbits? I just think it would be really cool to play a rabbit in a campaign...
DM Zoc 01-21-07, 07:16 PM	Rabbit Tiny Animal Hit Dice: 1/2 d8 (2 hp) Initiative: +2 Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), burrow 10 ft. Armor Class: 14 (+2 size, +2 Dex), touch 14, flat-footed 12 Base Attack/Grapple: +0/–12 Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d3–4) Full Attack: Bite +4 melee (1d3–4) Space/Reach: 2-1/2 ft./0 ft. Special Attacks: — Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent Saves: Fort +2, Ref +4, Will +1 Abilities: Str 3, Dex 15, Con 10, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 7 Skills: Hide +14*, Jump +10, Listen +3, Move Silently +6, Spot +3 Feats: Weapon Finesse Challenge Rating: 1/8 Advancement: — Level Adjustment: — The statistics presented here describe a common rabbit. Combat Rabbits prefer to avoid combat. Skills: Rabbits have a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks and a +8 racial bonus on Jump checks. They use their Dexterity modifier instead of their Strength modifier for Jump checks. *In areas of tall grass or heavy undergrowth, the Hide bonus rises to +8.
DM Zoc 01-21-07, 07:17 PM	It's not official, but I'm fairly confident that it would be close to whatever WotC would say it should be. Note that I just added a burrow speed and subtracted a couple of features from the cat.
Dm_Farble 01-21-07, 07:25 PM	thank you. *wonders what a good base class for a rabbit would be* his is going to be an interesting character.
Dm_Farble 01-21-07, 07:27 PM	WOuld the damage on the bite be to a minimum of one? Otherwise it could actually HEALING the enemy. thatd be akward...
Thief_of_Hope 01-21-07, 08:12 PM	WOuld the damage on the bite be to a minimum of one? Otherwise it could actually HEALING the enemy. thatd be akward... I believe according to the rules, a successful hit does a minimum of 1 damage (barring things like damage reduction and such). I know there's no way for your damage to be so low as to heal the opponent. Perhaps rogue or a spellcaster would work. Your lack of thumbs will make it hard to work with thieve's tools, but sneaking and hiding will be much easier to do when you're tiny, not to mention the sneak attack damage could eventually come relatively close to outweighing your incredibly low amount of damage (assuming you can even hit). If you go spellcaster, most of your spells are going to need you to take Still Spell and apply it to spells with somatic components, since you can't do the gestures with bunny paws. Savage Species also has a helpful reference list of spells that don't require somatic components. If it were me, I'd go Wizard or Druid (wildshaping would be really good for a bunny to be able to do, not to mention the animal companion).
Airos 01-21-07, 08:32 PM	Does anyone have the statistics for a rabbits? I just think it would be really cool to play a rabbit in a campaign... Well, you could use my stats, found here, or you could check out Dragon Magazine issue #280 for the "official" stats. (a PDF copy can be purchased from paizo (http://paizo.com/dragon/products/issues/2001/280). Drucilla_Rocks_my_Socks had an interesting thread regarding Rabbit Psions Hope this helps.
Hazkali 01-22-07, 03:02 AM	WOuld the damage on the bite be to a minimum of one? Otherwise it could actually HEALING the enemy. thatd be akward... See here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sg/20070105), grey box about a third of the way down the page. The official line is that hits do a minimum of 1 damage. This is not something I would have in my serious games, but I think this sounds really cool... Let me be the first to warn you that your DM might start giving the NPCs Holy Hand Grenades of Antioch. :D
celestialkin 01-22-07, 04:53 AM	Perhaps rogue or a spellcaster would work. Your lack of thumbs will make it hard to work with thieve's tools, but sneaking and hiding will be much easier to do when you're tiny, not to mention the sneak attack damage could eventually come relatively close to outweighing your incredibly low amount of damage (assuming you can even hit). He has a point. I just tried playing a cat (which DM Zoc based the rabbit on) rogue a few days ago, and it worked out pretty well. First off, your enemies will have a hard time seeing or finding you with the Hide check modifier you will be getting, so sneaking up on them will be much easier. Then once your targets are flat-footed your natural attack will get an extra d6, or more at higher levels. You will also get a +2 to your attack bonus, and a +2 to your AC . The downsides are you will be limited in what you can do without hands, you can't use any weapons besides your natural bite attack, you'll get a -8 to grapple (pg. 155 PHB), you need to enter an enemy's square to attack him (hence provoking an attack of opportunity) (pg 149 PHB), and you will be somewhat easier to kill than your opponents. By the way, according to the PHB pg. 76 tiny creatures get a +8 to hide checks, not +4. I don't know why they listed a cat as +4 in the Monster Manual unless he's in tall grass, but I'd suggest taking that out of your rabbit character, since there is no reason why it should apply to you.
Zumarai 01-22-07, 10:21 AM	thank you. *wonders what a good base class for a rabbit would be* his is going to be an interesting character. Slap the Anthropomorphic template on it and take some levels in Samurai. Usagi Yo Jimbo?
Burgundy Lotus 01-22-07, 11:03 AM	I'm surprised that Rabbit or Hare never made it into Savage Species as an Anthro.
HellflameArcanite 01-22-07, 01:34 PM	My advice: Awakened animals are not a good idea, unless you are prepared to deal with a lot more than players of a usually intelligent race have to deal with. However, an Awakened rabbit might do well in a campaign where most of the action is on the combat grid, but very poorly in one with intrigue and politics. It could serve as a wonderful ace in the hole - your enemy thinks they have you outnumbered until that innocent-looking rabbit behind them sticks a crossbow in their faces - but ultimately, it should be your DM's decision.
The_Shaman 01-22-07, 01:39 PM	I'm surprised that Rabbit or Hare never made it into Savage Species as an Anthro. I think it did... If it didn't, you know the mechanics anyway. Anyway, that's way preferable to awakened. +2 HDs with those stats? It may be fun but It's better for a cohort. If you want to play it, go either with an anthro rabbit or with a hengeyoukai rabbit monk. Anyone played Paws of Fury :D ? Improved Natural Attack should bring you back to a tolerable damage output level, and the bite attack can actually come in handy at times.
Dm_Farble 01-22-07, 01:49 PM	So much response, I love it. I think ive deicided that my rabbit pc will be a barbarian. And as far as the DM, Im just going to goof with the character and go solo with it, just to see how far it gets. I found an interesting magic item called the gloves of man. It allows animals to use items that have thumb requirements. his is going to be an interesting character... Tiny Barbarian Rabbits...
Dm_Farble 01-22-07, 01:52 PM	I wonder what the level adjustment for that would be O.o... I hope it doesnt go negative. Maybe a toughness feat would be good... Im gonna have to kill some really low CR things...
celestialkin 01-22-07, 01:52 PM	Can you please tell me in which book you found the gloves of man?
Dm_Farble 01-22-07, 01:57 PM	Pretty sure it was in the Savage Species book. Not sure though, as it was my friends magic item. I'll call him and check.
celestialkin 01-22-07, 02:00 PM	I'd appreciate that.
Dm_Farble 01-22-07, 02:00 PM	It was in the Playing Monstrous Humanoids book. I dont have the stats for it...
The_Shaman 01-22-07, 02:09 PM	SS had something like it, though... Hands of Man, or Vest of Man, or some such. Useful when you're playing a D&D Naga (although I prefer the OA ones anyway).
obrysii 01-22-07, 02:16 PM	The Gloves of Man are in Savage Species.
Johnny_Angel 01-22-07, 02:28 PM	My suggestions: Rabbit Druid If you have Player's Handbook II - Rabbit Dragon Shaman
Dm_Farble 01-22-07, 02:32 PM	Thanks for the help guys. I might post my complete awakened rabbit level adjustments later so...
HomerJaySimpson13 01-22-07, 02:42 PM	It's Wabbit season!:D
Dm_Farble 01-22-07, 02:49 PM	What do you think would be the strength adjustment? Im thinking either -6 or -8 but -8 seems a little extreme... But it is a tiny creature so...
celestialkin 01-22-07, 02:52 PM	It's Wabbit season!:D http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f173/celestialkin/Kill-the-Rabbit-3-smaller-1.gif I've been waiting for someone to say that. And good luck with your character Dm_Farble. Oh, and thanks for the info on the gloves everyone.
celestialkin 01-22-07, 03:01 PM	What do you think would be the strength adjustment? Im thinking either -6 or -8 but -8 seems a little extreme... But it is a tiny creature so... Well in the Monster Manual a cat (which DM Zoc based the rabbit on) is listed as having str 3, so if you take that as the average strength of a rabbit/cat, and you consider that the average str of a human is 10, then it would probably be a -7 (10 -3).
Dm_Farble 01-22-07, 03:11 PM	When an animal gets awakened it gains 2HD. That means at first lvl the character would get 2, average rabbit, plus 2d8 hp. yay. Ive almost got all of the stats figured out and the adjustments and such. :D
HomerJaySimpson13 01-22-07, 06:36 PM	Well in the Monster Manual a cat (which DM Zoc based the rabbit on) is listed as having str 3, so if you take that as the average strength of a rabbit/cat, and you consider that the average str of a human is 10, then it would probably be a -7 (10 -3). It would be -8, always use even numbers. If it is an odd number you use 11, if it is an even number you use 10.
The_Shaman 01-22-07, 06:38 PM	Er, no, when you have racial hit die you directly put your 1st level class hit die on top. I'm not sure which one gives you full HPs though - with no HDs it's your class one, but with them... Oh, and by the way - iirc magical beasts get d10s, not d8s. Sometimes when type changes the HD stays the same, but they usually mention it when it happens, like in the case of a paladin's mount. So - have yourself a d10 or two. Magical beast isn't the worst racial HD, but it's not exactly stellar either.
Dm_Farble 01-22-07, 07:02 PM	Well, I just used the barbarian d12 for the hp but if I need to add any more I will later. I took Twitch out for a solo adventure and he did suprisingly well. He has a Glaive so he doesnt have to enter an opponents square to hit them, a bow for ranged attacks, and a greatsword in case he just really needs to enter someones square. Tiny weapons make me laugh :P I dealt with all the modifiers, -8 for str, and he still has pretty good stats. He got a pretty good amount of gold from his last adventure so he's gonna get some strength bonus items. I'll release my edition of awakened rabbit pc as soon as I smooth out a few wrinkles. Hp for example. Any suggestions on how much hp he should get to start? His stats are listed in my sig.
The_Shaman 01-22-07, 07:36 PM	Wait, you are doing a barbarian with a -8 racial to strength? O.M.G., that beats even the pixie berserker idea that was floating around a while ago. I think you should power attack as much as you can whenever you can get your paws on the feat. BTW, how is it that you can wield weapons at all? Is it the "gloves of man"?
Dm_Farble 01-22-07, 08:26 PM	Yep :P Barbarian rabbit. He actually can hold his own in combat. High AC. I took him on the DND basic adventure and he smeared everyone. Got the dragon down to less than 45 hp and the twit ran away. keep in mind the rabbit did all this solo. had to use rage while taking on the dragon though... Gloves of man were mentioned in previous posts and my signature with the stats
Dm_Farble 01-22-07, 09:47 PM	Im going to post the stats for making an awakened rabbit character. Im done yay! You see a rabbit hustle swiftly by. Seeing its almost dinner time anyway, you decide to try to catch it. After a great long time of chasing it you finally chase it to an open field. You take a step forwards and fall into a deep pit trap. You look out of the trap and see an armor clad rabbit with a crossbow aimed at your head. Awakened Rabbit -8 to Strength, -2 to Constitution, +2 to Wisdom, +1d3 to Charisma. Intellegence is scored as 2 + 3d6 Awakened Rabbits land base speed is 50 feet. It can burrow at a speed of 10 feet. Racial Hit Dice: Awakened Rabbits begin with two levels of animal which provide 2d8 hp, a base attack bonus of +0, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +0, Ref +2, and Will +0. Racial Skills: Its class skills are Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Search, and Spot. Rabbits have a +8 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks and a +8 racial bonus on Jump checks. They use their Dexterity modifier instead of their Strength modifier for Jump checks. Special Qualities: Low light vision, Scent, Gains alertness as a bonus feat. Racial Feats: Awakened Rabbit's animal levels give it two feats. Natural Weapons: Bite +4 melee (1d3–4) Automatic Languages: The basic language of the druid who awakened it, usually common, plus one per point of intellegence bonus (if any). Favored Class: Druid Level Adjustment: +0 Awakened Rabbit Society Awakened animals are rare, much less awakened rabbits. The Awakened Rabbit usually stays with the druid that awakened it. It may adventure with another group of people or seek out its own kind. One city is known to exist consisting soley of Awakened Rabbits, though few know where it is. It is said to be underground, deep within the earth.
Johnny_Angel 01-22-07, 11:04 PM	Er, no, when you have racial hit die you directly put your 1st level class hit die on top. I'm not sure which one gives you full HPs though - with no HDs it's your class one, but with them... Oh, and by the way - iirc magical beasts get d10s, not d8s. Sometimes when type changes the HD stays the same, but they usually mention it when it happens, like in the case of a paladin's mount. So - have yourself a d10 or two. Magical beast isn't the worst racial HD, but it's not exactly stellar either. Really? I was under the impression that you only lost your racial hit die if you were a 1HD creature (i.e. elves, dwarves, humans, and etc.) I'm about 85% sure that an awakened rabbit with 2 Hit Dice would be considered equivilent to a 2nd level character. There would be no LA, but there would still be 2 hit dice, so that means an awakened rabbit with a level in a character class would effectively be a 3rd level character - a +2 adjustment from having two hit dice.
Dm_Farble 01-22-07, 11:10 PM	I just did 2 + 2d8 + class die. Well thats the race if you want it, tell your friends. he barbarian rabbits stats are in my sig so... Edit- which doesnt seem to be appearing O.o
Dm_Farble 01-22-07, 11:46 PM	http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/media/folder_137/display_1369829.jpg Ok, made this because I was bored. Five bucks on the rabbit.
Insane Pixie 01-22-07, 11:50 PM	Edit- which doesnt seem to be appearing O.o Only appears in first post on page.
Easy_Fuhsheezy 01-23-07, 12:23 AM	This reminds me of Watership down, or the Redwall series of books. I loved the Redwall books when i was younger (still think they're pretty cool too), and i always liked the Hares, as they tended to be both amuseingly silly and awesome fighters. boy i tell you what, anyone else thats read Redwall, wouldnt that make a crazy campaign idea? Everybody plays smallish awakened critters, like mice, hares, otters, badgers and the like... just take it for granted that they can use armor and swords and build structures and whatnot. I dunno, maybe it's too silly, but nonetheless, i like the idea.
celestialkin 01-23-07, 08:26 AM	This reminds me of Watership down, or the Redwall series of books. I loved the Redwall books when i was younger (still think they're pretty cool too), and i always liked the Hares, as they tended to be both amuseingly silly and awesome fighters. boy i tell you what, anyone else thats read Redwall, wouldnt that make a crazy campaign idea? Everybody plays smallish awakened critters, like mice, hares, otters, badgers and the like... just take it for granted that they can use armor and swords and build structures and whatnot. I dunno, maybe it's too silly, but nonetheless, i like the idea. I kind of like this idea. If you had the right group of players it could work. Maybe they could be animals who escaped a mad scientist's/wizard's workshop, or something? As for the Redwall books, they are still pretty fun to read even at our age. Actually, I just had my name legally changed to Matthias a few weeks ago, so you're not the only fan here. Oh, and the hares were cool, but the badgers kicked tail.
Dm_Farble 01-23-07, 10:31 AM	No, you are both wrong. The MOLES were the coolest. Dont tell me you wouldnt get drunk with a mole in a hole. Then the otters came after them in coolness, then the rabbits then the badgers, that would be a cool campaign though...
FoxmanFX 01-23-07, 12:30 PM	I know I'm jumping in real late here... the stats for the rabbit look great to me... except for the burrow 10. Rabbits may be great at digging tunnels, but I think a burrow 10 might be a little excessive. Only two animals have a burrow speed in the SRD - the Wolverine and the Badger both have burrow 10... I would suggest burrow 5 for a rabbit - but thats just me and YMMV ;)
The_Shaman 01-23-07, 05:56 PM	Really? I was under the impression that you only lost your racial hit die if you were a 1HD creature (i.e. elves, dwarves, humans, and etc.) I'm about 85% sure that an awakened rabbit with 2 Hit Dice would be considered equivilent to a 2nd level character. There would be no LA, but there would still be 2 hit dice, so that means an awakened rabbit with a level in a character class would effectively be a 3rd level character - a +2 adjustment from having two hit dice. I think that the awakened HDs count towards the creature's HD number for purposes of getting that 1st level...Anyway, 2d10 is already bad enough, so your first level could come then.
Dm_Farble 01-23-07, 06:00 PM	I used the rabbits hd for the 2hd. Then the class one. Hmm... 51 does seem to be alot of hp for lvl 3 O.o
Dm_Farble 01-28-07, 12:38 AM	*casts ressurection on this thread bringing it back to life, but losing a class level in the process* Any suggestions on what the LA would be?
lastknightleft 03-04-07, 08:56 PM	Question... did you have the gloves of man in the basic adventure? and if so how much do they cost. I understand you did it for the purpose of making things easier, but if they exceed the character wealth per level guidelines then you didn't really own the adventure. I could own an adventure with any character if I was allowed a thematic magic item that was beyond my wealth level. I'm not trying to disparage your character concept, I think it's tremendous, I'm just saying, would it have gone the same without the gloves of man?
lastknightleft 03-04-07, 08:57 PM	plus I'm curious to see what your specific characters stats were at 1st level if as a monster manual entry, if its not too much trouble
Isomer 03-04-07, 09:38 PM	i've seen a lot of good suggestions, i think if you wanted to have a successful career adventuring the best options would be either rogue or druid. But i was wondering ever thought about an awakened rabbit as a ninja? Ninja prestieged into assassin, would make an excellent villian. Think about how cool/mysterious it would be when you death attacked and killed some hapless sleeping fool. When they find the body the only mark they would find would be 2 small teeth marks, no one would ever be able to solve the mystery of the rabbit assassin. :detect:
Tharr 03-05-07, 01:07 AM	The rabbit could be rabbit were crature like the race tibbit. Great what about rabbit shapechangers from the hare clan. Very scary the rabbit monk with leap of the hare and leap attack feat. Many people know about our wizard bunny he answers one letter column. Kind of weird rabbit noble become the playboy bunny. Real quick the rabbit cleric the great easter bunny. Have the rabbit jester for the funny bunny with lop ears. Like the new lucky feats perfect for the lucky rabbit. Done for now rabbits like to multiply.
chucky 03-05-07, 11:41 AM	There should be no la for a rabbit pc because everything that eats met will consider your char food. Its not murder to kill a rabbit its called hunting... Hmm i wonder what lvl of survival you need to gather up intelligent rabbits while moving at full speed.
Adrez Nesnsid 08-07-07, 08:31 PM	:bump: